Not sure what I am...

[ShiningEyes]

I was the OW for a few months until they separated & he moved out 1 year ago. Then I became the "secret" girlfriend.

Though the Divorce is not going to happen anytime soon, they both agreed the M is over.

His not-yet ex-W & daughter (in fact no one in his life) knows about me. He & I have maintained a secret relationship for a year now - On the nights his daughter stays w him I stay in my apt - the rest of the time I sleep at his. We travel together, go on "date-nights" several towns over at least once a month. The rest of the time our relationship has unfolded behind closed doors. We also work together (along with Ex-W) and so have to pretend we're just friends in public. SOOOOO... I guess this still makes me the OW, right??

 

HELP, I'm sad :-)

[whichwayisup]

You both making a FOOL of his soon to be ex wife! You all work together too?

 

He doesn't want his wife to know because he'll have to face reaction and consquences.. That he cheated on her during the marriage.

 

This is not a good situation at all. There's going to be a lot of drama once she finds out about you two, separated or on the way to divorcing or not, she's not going to like this and she's going to feel betrayed, angry and hurt. Rightfully so.

[OldOnTheInside]

I guess this still makes me the OW, right??

 

Yes. Yes it does.

[ShiningEyes]

I know this... To be clear, we work for the same company but different areas, buildings, co-workers, etc. His not-yet x-W and I never cross paths.

 

But yes, I know that this is bordering on danger. BUT, it's been a year. He doesn't have to reveal the specifics about when we started the R... Why would he have to?

[fooled once]

I was the OW for a few months until they separated & he moved out 1 year ago. Then I became the "secret" girlfriend.

Though the Divorce is not going to happen anytime soon, they both agreed the M is over.

His not-yet ex-W & daughter (in fact no one in his life) knows about me. He & I have maintained a secret relationship for a year now - On the nights his daughter stays w him I stay in my apt - the rest of the time I sleep at his. We travel together, go on "date-nights" several towns over at least once a month. The rest of the time our relationship has unfolded behind closed doors. We also work together (along with Ex-W) and so have to pretend we're just friends in public. SOOOOO... I guess this still makes me the OW, right??

 

HELP, I'm sad :-)

 

Yes you are the OW.

 

If they are done, why are you a secret? Why do you allow yourself to be a secret? Doesn't matter if you don't cross paths with his wife, once she knows, everyone at the company will know. I hope neither of you are risking your jobs by having the affair - and yes, it is an affair. If it wasn't, he wouldn't be keeping you a secret.

[whichwayisup]

Have you asked him why he feels the need to hide you from everybody? So, no friends know, his family (parents, siblings) don't know either?

 

Sooner or later you need to decide what is best for you. Stay a secret or end it until he's ready and able to show you off to everybody in his life.

 

You two started off as an affair and it IS possible she knows or suspected in the past, so he doesn't want her accusing him of being a cheater in their marriage etc.

 

This could go badly and keep in mind their daughter's wellbeing is very important in this too. You can't on the outs with his wife and daughter when they find out you two are dating/living together especially if one day you'll be a step mother to their daughter.

[2sunny]

he evidently doesn't need to reveal ANYTHING - not even YOU.

 

you are a secret... people don't keep secrets unless something isn't right.

 

because it's not right - get rid of him.

 

pain will only come from willingly being his secret.

 

you are acting foolish - and he's depending on you continuing to act as his fool.

 

find a man that's proud to be seen with you... not embarassed. one who can take you out anywhere.

 

you deserve more than this.

[whichwayisup]

How sure are you that he and his wife are actually going to divorce?

 

He's either playing this a certain way so he WON'T get nailed with spousal support (affair etc) and the D be nasty, OR, he's playing you, and still friendly with his wife without you knowing..

 

I think you need to talk to him about what's really going on and if he refuses to tell people about you two, then end it..otherwise you'll feel like the OW for a long time and be kept hidden.

[PhoenixRise]

Why on earth would you put up with this situation?

 

If he has separated from his wife and has been living on his own for a year, and if both he and his wife both say the marriage is over (are you SURE they are both saying the marriage is over?) then why would you still need to be a secret?

[ShiningEyes]

We have begun this conversation and he is closer to feeling ready to talk to his not-yet-Ex & D about "dating" - and from there we'd begin making public appearances as if we're beginning to date... She suspects nothing at this point. We've been 100% discrete. As for the daughter, YES, this concerns me. I want to make sure she sees me (and gets to know me) for who I am and not as at the woman who broke up mommy/daddy. They had been having problems for years, were in therapy, had already separated once before, etc. They were done way before he & I even met.

 

As for why he feels we have to be secret... To protect his ex-W & daughter, his reputation at our job, my reputation... His reasoning was to let the separation dust settle for a year (now) and then have the "next steps" conversation with ex-W (divorce?) - after a year (again, should be now).

 

He knows I am now feeling restless, emotionally exhausted from maintaining a secret R, and generally unhappy with the thought of living this lie much longer. Maybe I'm reaching my limit??

 

Thanks for "listening" & giving critical feedback.

[carrie999]

You both making a FOOL of his soon to be ex wife! You all work together too?

 

He doesn't want his wife to know because he'll have to face reaction and consquences.. That he cheated on her during the marriage.

 

This is not a good situation at all. There's going to be a lot of drama once she finds out about you two, separated or on the way to divorcing or not, she's not going to like this and she's going to feel betrayed, angry and hurt. Rightfully so.

 

WWIU, I usually agree with you, and I do agree with the bolded statement. However, he HAS been separated for a year. Unless she digs or he chooses to tell her, his wife won't know that he actually cheated on her with shining.

 

Shining, what are the terms of their separation agreement? Are they free to date, or is the idea that they're taking a "time out" but working on the marriage? If they've been separated this long, I would think (unless specifically stated otherwise) that he is "allowed to" date. She may hate it, and she may hate even more that it's you when she finds out, but being involved with him isn't out of bounds.

 

If you were just someone he met and started dating, you wouldn't be an OW, exactly. If they're separated and planning to divorce, he can date and doesn't have to tell her about it. The fact that it started before their separation blurs the lines, though. It certainly doesn't sound like a good situation for you, but I understand it.

[ShiningEyes]

I like your Picasso quote!

 

I have put up with these circumstances because he is worth it. He is totally worth it. We are madly in love and talk about this as a sacrifice we have to make for a short time (is a year a short time? Maybe not?) so that things can fall into place in a way that allows us to be together drama-free and, once out in the open, put distance between his separation and divorce (when?) and me as his partner.

 

This is how I've thought about it... IT'S QUITE A HEAVY WEIGHT TO CARRY - maybe for me more than for him?

[ShiningEyes]

I don't think he's embarrassed... I don't think that's it at all. Would your perspective change if - now that it's been a year - he is ready to tell his ex-W & D that he is dating? This is where we're at in the conversation, though I know that it's not going to happen tomorrow....

[carrie999]

Have you asked him why he feels the need to hide you from everybody? So, no friends know, his family (parents, siblings) don't know either?

 

Sooner or later you need to decide what is best for you. Stay a secret or end it until he's ready and able to show you off to everybody in his life.

 

You two started off as an affair and it IS possible she knows or suspected in the past, so he doesn't want her accusing him of being a cheater in their marriage etc.

 

This could go badly and keep in mind their daughter's wellbeing is very important in this too. You can't on the outs with his wife and daughter when they find out you two are dating/living together especially if one day you'll be a step mother to their daughter.

 

This I agree with entirely, particularly the daughter's well being and his relationship with both of them.

[ShiningEyes]

WWIU, I usually agree with you, and I do agree with the bolded statement. However, he HAS been separated for a year. Unless she digs or he chooses to tell her, his wife won't know that he actually cheated on her with shining.

 

Shining, what are the terms of their separation agreement? Are they free to date, or is the idea that they're taking a "time out" but working on the marriage? If they've been separated this long, I would think (unless specifically stated otherwise) that he is "allowed to" date. She may hate it, and she may hate even more that it's you when she finds out, but being involved with him isn't out of bounds.

 

If you were just someone he met and started dating, you wouldn't be an OW, exactly. If they're separated and planning to divorce, he can date and doesn't have to tell her about it. The fact that it started before their separation blurs the lines, though. It certainly doesn't sound like a good situation for you, but I understand it.

 

_____

OK, is this how I reply to multi-quote responses?

Testing...

I don't know the terms of the separation. Early on I said to him that I wasn't going to ask for details simply because it's none of my business. I DO know that she agreed to the separation without ever asking him to come back. She was very angry when he moved out because she felt he "gave up" on the M but didn't ask to give it another chance. She knows a D will happen - but - I THINK that for $ reasons, and for the D's well-being, they decided to leave things at "Separated" for now. I don't know if they talked about "dating" -- Honestly, for my own sanity, I decided to go the "no questions" route. BUT am now feeling like it's time to ask... It's been a year.

[fooled once]

Just because he has been separated a year doesn't mean he IS getting divorced.

 

Many MM have "moved out" but then reconciled with the wife. Most rental places are leased on a yearly basis and it can cost quite a bit to break that lease.

 

His wife (not his "ex" wife, she is right now his wife) and daughter will find out. I would not be surprised if others do not know, especially those at work. For all you know, information could be in the gathering stage (such as emails which are sent on company computers) and he or you could both be out of jobs.

 

Do any of your friends know you are an ow or do they think he is a divorced / single guy?

[2sunny]

him needing "to ask her permission to date" says it all...

 

he hasn't cut the strings - so that he can move forward. he hasn't healed. he's still asking her permission...

 

when there's nothing to hide = people hide nothing.

 

you already ruined it by being involved. i suggest you step away and allow him his healing time.

 

stay away. it will allow him to find the version of himself - instead of the version you now know - the one who has to ask his soon to be ex wife's permission.

[ShiningEyes]

This I agree with entirely, particularly the daughter's well being and his relationship with both of them.

 

I agree as well which why I was patient and let the R unfold behind closed doors for a year. But I'm now needing more, is it unfair of me to make demands?

[OldOnTheInside]

But I'm now needing more, is it unfair of me to make demands?

 

And why would it be unfair?

[2sunny]

We have begun this conversation and he is closer to feeling ready to talk to his not-yet-Ex & D about "dating" - and from there we'd begin making public appearances as if we're beginning to date... She suspects nothing at this point. We've been 100% discrete. As for the daughter, YES, this concerns me. I want to make sure she sees me (and gets to know me) for who I am and not as at the woman who broke up mommy/daddy. They had been having problems for years, were in therapy, had already separated once before, etc. They were done way before he & I even met.

 

As for why he feels we have to be secret... To protect his ex-W & daughter, his reputation at our job, my reputation... His reasoning was to let the separation dust settle for a year (now) and then have the "next steps" conversation with ex-W (divorce?) - after a year (again, should be now).

 

He knows I am now feeling restless, emotionally exhausted from maintaining a secret R, and generally unhappy with the thought of living this lie much longer. Maybe I'm reaching my limit??

 

Thanks for "listening" & giving critical feedback.

 

but you were involved, correct? so you did participate on some level when the marriage was still together.

 

 

i think you are minimizing things to make yourself appear innocent.

 

he wouldn't have had a need to "hide you" if proper order was considered.

 

you can't undo what you did.

 

you WERE involved - and still are - they are not yet DIVORCED.

 

step away - for a long while. IF he wants to be with you - he can DO that after his divorce is final.

[ShiningEyes]

him needing "to ask her permission to date" says it all...

 

he hasn't cut the strings - so that he can move forward. he hasn't healed. he's still asking her permission...

 

when there's nothing to hide = people hide nothing.

 

you already ruined it by being involved. i suggest you step away and allow him his healing time.

 

stay away. it will allow him to find the version of himself - instead of the version you now know - the one who has to ask his soon to be ex wife's permission.

 

I hadn't thought about it this way... Thank you. But also, maybe it's not about permission rather a conversation about "dating"???

[2sunny]

for the record - "separated" can go on for eternity... it's usually "separated" instead of divorce for specific reasons.

 

it usually is designed to benefit one spouse or the other.

 

for sure we know this- he isn't considering YOUR best interest or feelings - why are you not making decisions that WILL be in your best interest?

[2sunny]

I hadn't thought about it this way... Thank you. But also, maybe it's not about permission rather a conversation about "dating"???

 

why would a grown man need to "have that conversation" with a spouse he intends to divorce?

 

i'd love to know... when i was divorcing - i was told... hey 2sunny, you are no longer going to be married to him - so no need to ask for his input on anything.

 

he's still emotionally tied to HER... THAT is why he needs to discuss it with her.

 

he's put you in a position of being on the outside - the third wheel - and he knows it.

 

you should get out before you have 20 years go by and still left waiting on him to quit keeping you as his secret.

 

it's just not good enough. you deserve more.

[ShiningEyes]

And why would it be unfair?

 

By getting involved with a M/Separated Man I knew what I was getting into?

[carrie999]

him needing "to ask her permission to date" says it all...

 

he hasn't cut the strings - so that he can move forward. he hasn't healed. he's still asking her permission...

 

when there's nothing to hide = people hide nothing.

 

you already ruined it by being involved. i suggest you step away and allow him his healing time.

 

stay away. it will allow him to find the version of himself - instead of the version you now know - the one who has to ask his soon to be ex wife's permission.

 

Shining still isn't completely sure what conversations he has had with his wife, so there isn't enough information to make the judgment that he needs to "ask permission" to date. It sounds like MM & wife are prolonging the inevitable, and Shining, I appreciate that you've stepped back and not pushed him until now.

 

But a year is long enough. Whether you haven't pried because you weren't sure you wanted to know, or you wanted to give him that space and privacy to deal with his marriage, at this point you need to know what's really going on.

 

He might need space. In fact, he should slow things down with you (if not actually "cool off") and stop spending so much time with you so that he can focus on himself and his daughter. Dating him for now should be really DATING, not living together. If it's meant to work out, it will...and it's less likely to work if he directly transitions from being married to moving in with you.