Not sure what I am...

[OldOnTheInside]

So I've been an OW before, in fact for 5 years (on and off) I was an OW to a MM who lived in a diff state and went through my share of pain and frustration at the situation. I have a history of accepting being "a secret" and living with the pain (also concealing the pain).

 

So perhaps what you need now is change.

 

What do you think?

[ShiningEyes]

"So perhaps what you need now is change."

 

I think so... In one form or another.

[2sunny]

since he has family coming in and they are staying with his W (they COULD get a hotel room) it appears as if they are playing happy family for the family visit. so, is his daughter 18? if she is- she's an adult - and should be capable of handling his truth. truth is - he's with you. truth really is- he's with you but still playing the old role he's always played as husband and father.

 

that's bull**** for you!

 

and he will sneak away "for a few minutes" to see you? tell him to f-off! still sneaky behavior- and you are at the end of that "secrecy" once again.

 

like he's doing you a big favor while he plays happy house with all of them.

 

i just think it's pretty lousy - and you are settling for a fraction of what he should be offering you if he loves you.

 

i'd disappear for a week or so - let HIM wonder for a change. he's spending this weekend full well KNOWING he's hurting you! he COULD be including you - IF he were being an honest man, but he's not!

 

the whole thing really makes me wonder how much he cowtows to his wife... yes, she is still his wife - and he seems to go along with whatever she wishes... even at the expense of bringing family in and staying there with HER! his family! staying with his wife! sheez... aren't you mad?

 

if not... why not?

[2sunny]

And in fact I was WILLING (masochist?) to be with him as a MM and HE was the one who said NO - I don't want an OW. So he made the decision to leave so that we could be together....

 

but he has only changed his residency... hasn't exposed you as his love interest. so, essentially, he HAS kept you as his OW since you ARE the secret.

 

as long as he's not going to be honest... you are his OW.

 

and why would an adult man who INTENDS to BE divorced need to ask a therapist how to tell his W? i'll tell you how= honesty!

 

"hey, we are getting divorced and i'm seeing someone now"

 

when did he say his D is supposed to be FINAL? date? he should be capable of a specific date since it's been a whole year now.

[fooled once]

I hadn't thought about it this way... Thank you. But also, maybe it's not about permission rather a conversation about "dating"???

 

I divorced my ex. He started dating the day he moved out. Due to our state guidelines, since we had a child, we had to be separated a year before filing for divorce. He dated the entire year. NEVER did it enter my head or his to 'ask' to date. NEVER did we have a conversation about us dating others. We lived separate. We were separated. No sneaking around, no hiding. I met his girlfriend 2 months after he moved out; 6 months later I had them over Christmas morning to watch our son open gifts. Our marriage was over the day he moved out - why in the world would he need to sneak around??

 

RED FLAG for you with this MM. He is MARRIED. She is his WIFE, not his soon to be ex wife. Seems like neither of them are moving towards divorce.

 

Also, many MM who have moved out do move back in.

 

I'm not ready to let him go... I can't just walk away. I am very much in love - we are very much in love. I see that you are totally convinced the R has to end - at least for now - BUT I can't do that. Yes, I am sad and feeling overwhelmed by our circumstances, but not having him in my life at all would just break me into pieces.

 

No, it isn't that you "can't" it is that you don't want to. Big difference. If it is meant or whatever, it will survive a cooling off period.

 

He needs time alone - he went from his wife's bed to your bed.

 

Your entire identify is wrapped up in him. You have lost YOU.

 

So does your family know he is married? Do they know you are a hidden mistress?

 

As for his weekend plans, with his family and inlaws and all that --- umm.... divorced couples don't do that. HIS parents are staying with his wife? Yeah, there is no divorce happening here. If that were true, this would be too uncomfortable for that.

 

My son graduated high school and guess what - I didn't see my ex and his g/f there. My H and I sat with my family and I have no idea where my ex and his wife were. Know why? Because we are divorced and we don't hang out together.

[2sunny]

We teach others how to treat us.

 

you have taught him that you will settle for being second or third.

 

he knows you don't expect to be his priority... therefore he plans a whole "family weekend" and slaps you in the face with being OK with that. i'd never be ok with it - and you shouldn't be ok with it either.

 

as long as you go along with being his second fiddle - that's where he's going to keep you.

 

tell him you need a clean break for a while... to clear your mind and redetermine YOUR priorities for YOUR best interest.

 

no man i intend to love will ever ask me to compromise MY integrity for THEIR well being - EVER!!! and you shouldn't either.

 

he is looking out for himself - why are you not looking out for you?

 

life is just too damn short to let men short change our happiness.

[ShiningEyes]

(they COULD get a hotel room) They really wouldn't be able to afford a hotel... and it's really about spending time with the daughter on her graduation, (She's 17, I think).

 

The truth is - he's with you. Yes, this is the truth but a truth that he hadn't disclosed yet and this weekend isn't exactly the right time...

 

he's with you but still playing the old role he's always played as husband and father. I think it is more of a "father" and not a "husband" role he is playing. HE'S not staying at the house, his parents are. Remember, they were married for 20 years... his parents have a great relationship with his W and I'm sure they want to see her as well - this is the first time they've seen her since the separation.

 

that's bull**** for you! Yes, I do feel pretty frustrated with the situation, I'd love to meet his parents and sit with him during his daughter's graduation... It's a big deal!

 

and he will sneak away "for a few minutes" to see you? tell him to f-off! still sneaky behavior- and you are at the end of that "secrecy" once again. Maybe I need to be angrier... Maybe I need to be pissed off rather than sad...

 

like he's doing you a big favor while he plays happy house with all of them. aren't you mad? maybe I need to be...

[BB07]

Shining.........I have confidence that you are going to find your footing and work this out. You are here, asking questions and being upfront about the good and the bad and you are open minded about listening to others wisdom. Some posters get defensive, you are not. I think you desire change and you want to stand up for yourself and have a good relationship with this man despite the ways things started. Change is good........although it is hard.

 

Kudos for being here and listening.

[ShiningEyes]

Your entire identify is wrapped up in him. You have lost YOU.

 

I'm afraid this might be true...

[2sunny]

what is the EXACT date for the D to be final?

 

what did he answer?

[ShiningEyes]

My family knows he is separated and that a divorce will eventually happen. They warmed me against getting involved at first but I was stubborn and was falling in love fast. They met him after about 9 months and liked him very much though, especially since they know that he and I spend so much time together and that he makes an effort to plan weekend getaways where we can be a couple in public. What my family doesn't know is that I am no longer "happy" in this situation.

 

tell him you need a clean break for a while... to clear your mind and redetermine YOUR priorities for YOUR best interest.

 

no man i intend to love will ever ask me to compromise MY integrity for THEIR well being - EVER!!! and you shouldn't either.

 

So today when we talked, he suggested we start making public "as friends" appearances for example, having lunch together at a place where many people we work with have lunch as well. He suggested it and was ready to go with me today but I had a lunch mtg to go to so couldn't do it. But he WAS ready to do it and was even excited about the prospect. I THINK he wants to move things along as much as I do... I ALSO think he's "afraid" of how W might react... And is basing decisions off of that fear... At least in part.

[ShiningEyes]

what is the EXACT date for the D to be final?

 

what did he answer?

 

I don't know the answer to this question. I haven't asked for an exact date. Once I said to him that I knew these things take time. I'm more concerned about he acknowledging me as his girlfriend than I am about the divorce date. I wonder if once she knows about me she'll be more eager/ready to accelerate the divorce process.

[whichwayisup]

He just needs to say, we've been separated for a year, it's time to divorce.. I've met someone and I need to live my life. She isn't going to FREAK OUT since the intention of the separation is leading to divorce..Right? She isn't going to get upset and want him back. Right?

[ShiningEyes]

I think you desire change and you want to stand up for yourself and have a good relationship with this man despite the ways things started.

 

Yes, this is true! THANK YOU for the encouragement :-) I really need it right now.

[2sunny]

i think he's like every other MM - he's got the cake eater scene going - it's all good as long as you don't request a thing, right?

 

start demanding to be treated with respect! you deserve that, at the very least!

 

i'd be telling him you sure don't expect that he leave you out of this important gathering! it's not right. he's getting divorced!

 

if he doesn't have you there - i'd tell him - no trip to see your family! take a solid break - for YOU! no pretending! you're not good enough to meet his family - he's not good enough to visit with yours.

 

and lunch with co- workers? how about getting REAL? have lunch in front of his wife - he should be willing to kiss you whether she's there or not! is he embarrassed by you? looks like maybe?

 

he's NOT nice! get mad! you deserve to be respected- so start respecting yourself!

 

and find out EXACTLY when the D is final! YOU have a right to know! why didn't you ask him? call him now... who cares if you interrupt his "family pretend time" he should know you are mad and you are considering leaving...

 

as far as him having a conversation with his wife - HE knows how to talk to her... they've been married long enough to where he SHOULD know how to be honest with her - but maybe he's not a guy who knows how to be honest at all! he can't think of how to tell her? it goes like this... "we are divorcing - i am dating someone i care deeply for" that's it! what is so hard about him being honest?

 

he could be totally lying to you the whole time too!

[ShiningEyes]

and lunch with co- workers? how about getting REAL? have lunch in front of his wife - he should be willing to kiss you whether she's there or not! is he embarrassed by you? looks like maybe?

 

He suggested as a first step toward being public in our work space... He and W have been working there for over 15 yrs and I've been there three so they have strong ties to the place and with co-workers. So being public among co-workers is also "being real" - it's a tight-knit community.

 

HE knows how to talk to her... they've been married long enough to where he SHOULD know how to be honest with her - but maybe he's not a guy who knows how to be honest at all!

 

I know, this is true. I FEAR so very much that maybe he's not being honest with me about the intentions for a divorce.

 

I never thought of him as a cake-eater, but maybe I have been naive.

[2sunny]

and lunch with co- workers? how about getting REAL? have lunch in front of his wife - he should be willing to kiss you whether she's there or not! is he embarrassed by you? looks like maybe?

 

He suggested as a first step toward being public in our work space... He and W have been working there for over 15 yrs and I've been there three so they have strong ties to the place and with co-workers. So being public among co-workers is also "being real" - it's a tight-knit community.

 

HE knows how to talk to her... they've been married long enough to where he SHOULD know how to be honest with her - but maybe he's not a guy who knows how to be honest at all!

 

I know, this is true. I FEAR so very much that maybe he's not being honest with me about the intentions for a divorce.

 

I never thought of him as a cake-eater, but maybe I have been naive.

 

i think you need answers. don't participate until you get his truth!

 

and i'd cancel him coming along on the trip with you... why reward him for eliminating you from his life? reward his bad behavior by taking him to see your family? let him sit home and think about how to get his D final so he doesn't lose you. have him introduce you to his daughter if he intends to divorce.

 

my kids met my exH gf quickly after we separated - i expected him to date- most men don't like ever being alone- for him to date is only realistic... he's lying. kids adjust when we are honest - he just isn't honest at all.

 

he should be willing to show you his divorce papers... i think you are secret for more reasons than he's been giving you.

 

no adult man needs to see a counselor to have an honest conversation with someone they have been married to - and intend to divorce... he's playing you for a fool - he just simply needs to say what's real - BUT HE WON'T!

[twinsmom]

I wonder if once she knows about me she'll be more eager/ready to accelerate the divorce process.

 

Unfortunately for you, from what I've read on here, it is possible that the exact opposite might be true. Once she learns about you, she might decide to dig in her heels and try to make her marriage work, even if she doesn't really want it, simply because of the existence of another woman. It sounds far-fetched, but I've seen that scenario described on this board before. Along the lines of "I don't want him, but I'll be damned if anyone else will have him".

[2sunny]

Unfortunately for you, from what I've read on here, it is possible that the exact opposite might be true. Once she learns about you, she might decide to dig in her heels and try to make her marriage work, even if she doesn't really want it, simply because of the existence of another woman. It sounds far-fetched, but I've seen that scenario described on this board before. Along the lines of "I don't want him, but I'll be damned if anyone else will have him".

 

happens quite often... and most MM love the ego feed so they keep both gals around to fight over him... running back and forth - playing with emotions...

 

he's NOT thinking of YOU here - that is for sure. he's ONLY thinking of himself. i'd want a man that thinks more highly of me than he does of himself.

 

this we know - he definitely says he's thinking of HIS WIFES feelings MORE than he's thinking of YOUR feelings!

 

THAT ALONE SHOULD TELL YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW!

[Snowflower]

Many people--and I think this is more likely for men--already have poor communication skills and avoid conflict and this is why they get into an affair.

 

Once in the affair, they continue these behaviors as they decide what to do. Meanwhile, the marriage dies a slow painful death and the OW wastes months/years of her life waiting for her MM.

 

OW is the hand-holder, confidante (where the wife was his confidante for so many years), companion, friend, etc. through the process. After all, MM is not going to go on a camping trip with his buddies and discuss his feelings about his wife/marriage. Nah, guys just don't do that. Instead, he uses the OW for that.

 

Marriage finally ends in divorce. MM is free to be with the OW. OW looks forward to having an out-in-the-open relationship and a bright future ahead.

 

The MM-turned-single-guy suddenly decides that the single life looks darn exciting. He decides that the relationship with the OW has become a bit "heavy" lately and a reminder of that turbulent time in his life when his marriage ended.

 

Most likely he is still a conflict-avoider so he wants to avoid all thoughts associated with his divorce and the person who was with him through all that time.

 

After all, he disassociated himself from his spouse when stuff got too difficult/stale. It's even easier to do this time around.

 

It is just easier to start over with someone else...or enjoy the single life...or possibly, try to get his former spouse back.

 

Poor OW!

 

OP, this is so common. Don't let this be you!

[2sunny]

any updates?

 

how are ya feeling today? hugs

[Anna101]

I think your main fear is that the separation was a false move forward, he's not telling you the truth and they are just having a break and the divorce will never happen.

 

And like most fears, it COULD be true or he COULD be telling you the truth.

 

Look, chances are it's going to be a long while before he is going to feel comfortable being a real couple in front of his wife, and in front of those friends who saw them as a married couple for years and years. It's a selfish/weak thing but it's reality - he feels weird and wants to put off doing that for as long as you let him. It's very easy for people to say it's been a year, he should be comfortable, but it most likely took him a good part of that year to even begin to think about his marriage ending. He's probably had many doubts about you and has at times wanted to go back.

 

He IS putting you second, it's partly habit for him, he put you second during the affair.

 

Don't give him a time line or an ultimatum or any of those games. Talk to him, tell him *exactly* how you feel (because I bet if he or his wife had done that in the first place you wouldn't be here) and see how he progresses when he clearly and completely understands how you are feeling about the situation.

 

He may really not see the rush and may feel that 'hey I left didn't I, now just give me the time to do it on my time'. Unfair, I know, but....affairs are not fair, even when they end.

[fooled once]

i think he's like every other MM - he's got the cake eater scene going - it's all good as long as you don't request a thing, right?

 

start demanding to be treated with respect! you deserve that, at the very least!

 

i'd be telling him you sure don't expect that he leave you out of this important gathering! it's not right. he's getting divorced!

 

if he doesn't have you there - i'd tell him - no trip to see your family! take a solid break - for YOU! no pretending! you're not good enough to meet his family - he's not good enough to visit with yours.

 

and lunch with co- workers? how about getting REAL? have lunch in front of his wife - he should be willing to kiss you whether she's there or not! is he embarrassed by you? looks like maybe?

 

he's NOT nice! get mad! you deserve to be respected- so start respecting yourself!

 

and find out EXACTLY when the D is final! YOU have a right to know! why didn't you ask him? call him now... who cares if you interrupt his "family pretend time" he should know you are mad and you are considering leaving...

 

as far as him having a conversation with his wife - HE knows how to talk to her... they've been married long enough to where he SHOULD know how to be honest with her - but maybe he's not a guy who knows how to be honest at all! he can't think of how to tell her? it goes like this... "we are divorcing - i am dating someone i care deeply for" that's it! what is so hard about him being honest?

 

he could be totally lying to you the whole time too!

 

2sunny has given you so much great advice on this entire thread.

 

you SHOULD care when the divorce is final; that is .... have they EVEN FILED FOR DIVORCE??? It seems like you have truly been content to bury your head in the sand about all this. You may think you are "dating" him, but you two are hiding from the world and not really having to deal with REAL LIFE stresses. You two are playing fantasy land with sneaking to towns farther away to be seen in public, etc.

 

You haven't made mention of wanting your own family. His daughter is practically grown; if you had hopes of having kids one day, I can't see him eagerly ready to start all over raising kids. If having kids was a dream, are you ready to give it up? As you see from his affair, relationships don't last. I really think you have been incredibly naive about all this -- enjoying the 'excitement' and secrecy of sneaking around and the romance of no one knowing anything.

 

I can't believe your parents are okay with him playing happy husband this weekend with his WIFE and HIS family; sneaking around with their daughter and knowing he hides you from the world. My parents were not thrilled with me 'dating' a MM, and knowing that the MM you are having an affair with hasn't even filed for divorce, I can't image your DAD has any respect for him. Seriously, think about it. Would you want this for your child? Would you be happy to know that your daughter had to sneak around or stay hidden because her 'boyfriend' was a married man?

[crazy love]

I think your main fear is that the separation was a false move forward, he's not telling you the truth and they are just having a break and the divorce will never happen.

 

And like most fears, it COULD be true or he COULD be telling you the truth.

 

Look, chances are it's going to be a long while before he is going to feel comfortable being a real couple in front of his wife, and in front of those friends who saw them as a married couple for years and years. It's a selfish/weak thing but it's reality - he feels weird and wants to put off doing that for as long as you let him. It's very easy for people to say it's been a year, he should be comfortable, but it most likely took him a good part of that year to even begin to think about his marriage ending. He's probably had many doubts about you and has at times wanted to go back.

 

He IS putting you second, it's partly habit for him, he put you second during the affair.

 

Don't give him a time line or an ultimatum or any of those games. Talk to him, tell him *exactly* how you feel (because I bet if he or his wife had done that in the first place you wouldn't be here) and see how he progresses when he clearly and completely understands how you are feeling about the situation.

 

He may really not see the rush and may feel that 'hey I left didn't I, now just give me the time to do it on my time'. Unfair, I know, but....affairs are not fair, even when they end.

 

 

 

Dito.

Great advice Anna.

I think on some level we are often afraid to put our honest thoughts and feelings out there. We are afraid of the response that will or will not follow. But IMO for a relationship to grow and mature to the next level you have to be willing to put those thoughts and feelings out there and you must be willing to hear the other persons response, even if that response could crush you, it is a risk you must be willing to take.

 

I think that this is what is meant by the term "falling" in love.

We fall, risking the pain of not being caught, though we hope that the person who we are falling for will catch us.

I mean, hitting the ground from that high up really sux

[2sunny]

The concern from your actions is not being willing to ask him what is his truth and have him show you his evidence (the D papers). Reluctance to talk through the obvious does not make for a strong and stable relationship. Ask Jim for all the evidence you are left shortchanged by. Either he can prove it; or he can't. You deserve to be treated with respect, but not if you aren't expecting it for yourself.