Got a situation

[Just A Joe]

Wife and I married more than 15 years. Son and a daughter, both with serious special needs requiring hospitalization, lots of meds, therapies, etc. We have had not been together as husband and wife in more than five years.

 

I have tried everything- romantic dinners (cooked by me or dates I have arranged and paid for), notes, cards, flowers, massages, serious foreplay (up to an hour), and I get nowhere. I've tried taking her to several doctors, but she refuses to believe there's a problem. Tried family therapy and she dropped out of three counselors when they all began to get too painful for her. These were all people she picked.

 

She accuses me of cheating when I text friends or check email or when I go out with male friends (if there's a female in the group). I'm coming up on 50 in a few and have some good years and lots of strength. She is about five years younger.

 

I think she has told her friends something about me in the last year or so. They haven't talked to me or refuse to (at parties and functions) for the last year or so. Been completely faithful, never strayed, always the dedicated father, etc.

 

Shared this with just a few closest buddies and they tell me I'm crazy and should even leave the kids. I don't trust her though and don't think she's stable enough to care for the kids. I provide everything for them. She assaulted the oldest and once threw a piece of furniture at me and broke a bone. It was not reported to the police. She didn't apologize or acknowledge the cast.

 

There's no love, but I can't put together an exit plan. New job doesn't pay well yet and haven't saved enough to live with kids by myself. Kids are 11 and 6. They know what's up.

[Downtown]

Joe, you say she's been an ice queen for the past five years. Why did you ever fall in love with her? What was she like for the first ten years? I ask because, as hateful as her behavior has been toward you the past five years, there must have been many red flags in the ten years before that. Also, what was her childhood like? Was she abused or abandoned as a young child? For us to help you, we need more information. Emotionally healthy women do not behave well for over ten years and then just suddenly start acting cold toward their husbands.

[Just A Joe]

Joe, you say she's been an ice queen for the past five years. Why did you ever fall in love with her? What was she like for the first ten years? I ask because, as hateful as her behavior has been toward you the past five years, there must have been many red flags in the ten years before that. Also, what was her childhood like? Was she abused or abandoned as a young child? For us to help you, we need more information. Emotionally healthy women do not behave well for over ten years and then just suddenly start acting cold toward their husbands.

 

++++++++++++++

Fell in love with her because I thought I had found my soulmate. We were both affectionate, both Christian, fighters for justice and enjoyed similar things- performing music, the arts, the outdoors. She was well loved by her friends and colleagues. They became to disappear after the first year or two (in a big way), even tho we regularly threw huge parties, etc.

Her dad was a career cop and a big tough ass. Her mom was very sick for a long time and I think this drove her dad nuts. He is/was not a very balanced guy. I've discovered a lot of cops like that.

Don't think she was abused as a child (define abused). I was a military brat and raised in an ultra strict house where the commander was obeyed and ordered were barked on a daily basis. Some of the things that went on when I was a kid would be called abuse now. Whatever. Therapy and I'm good. Forgave and moved on. My father is my war hero and I honor him now.

She did begin cheating about four or five years ago. I have the exact date and dates recorded in an electronic safe box that is protected by two people- my brother and my lawyer. If anything happens to me, they're instructed to share it all with the police. They'll find driving records dating back years, receipts, letters and emails. It's all protected and I have hard copy in a fireproof safe in another location. Joe's no idiot- just a lost soul.

[Afishwithabike]

If what you've said is fair and accurate, I wouldn't leave the children with her especially if they have serious issues. I think the next time she does something potentially damaging to the children or you like throwing things that break bones, you need to report it to the police and start a paper trail. There's no guarantee that in the event of a divorce you'd get the children if you have no proof she is a poor mother to them.

 

You're worried that something might happen to you from the OM? Wow. I think if things are that bad, you need to get out in the near future. I hope the lawyer is giving you some good advice in that area. I would be concerned about what negative impact a separation or divorce would have on your children, but assuming you're doing much of their care now then they shouldn't be that impacted, right?

[Downtown]

Joe, the behavioral traits you describe -- vindictive, mean, untrustworthy, emotionally unstable, physically and verbally abusive, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, and inappropriate anger -- are many of the traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Although BPD is called a "disorder," it is not a "disease." Hence, it is not something that a person "has" or "does not have." Rather, it is a set of nine dysfunctional symptoms (i.e., traits) that every human being exhibits. Like body temperature and muscle aches, the BPD symptoms are normal to have when they are at a low level and occur occasionally. They become a problem only when they occur strongly and frequently enough to undermine marriages and friendships.

 

Only professionals can determine whether these traits are so strong as to meet the diagnostic criteria. So you and I cannot diagnose whether your W "has BPD." It nonetheless should be easy for you to spot the nine red flags exhibited by a BPDer (i.e., person having strong BPD traits). There is nothing subtle about symptoms such as verbal abuse and lack of impulse control. I therefore suggest you read my description of these traits in Rebel's thread to see if it rings a bell. My four posts start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3398735#post3398735.

She was well loved by her friends and colleagues. They began to disappear after the first year or two (in a big way), even tho we regularly threw huge parties

Did her friends leave because of job opportunities elsewhere or because she drove them away? I ask because a BPDer typically does black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad." And she will recategorize someone from one category to its polar opposite in just ten seconds -- based on a minor infraction or misinterpreted remark. Of course, this distorted view of other people wrecks havoc on friendships. The result is that BPDers usually have no long term friends (unless they live a long distance apart).

I fell in love with her because I thought I had found my soul mate.

As I explain in the thread mentioned above, it is common for both partners in a BPDer relationship to be convinced during the honeymoon period that they are "soul mates." This occurs because the BPDer, having only a fragile self image, "mirrors" the best aspects of her partner's personality -- to the point that she will even like nearly everything you like and dislike nearly everything you dislike.

 

Because this mirroring is done subconsciously like the infatuation itself, she believes the illusion as much as you. Hence, if your W has strong BPD traits, both of you likely believed you two were a perfect match.

Her mom was very sick for a long time.

Is that where the kids got their illness? I assume you are referring to a physical, not a mental, illness.

She did begin cheating about four or five years ago.

Are you saying that she was stable and loving for the first 10 years and then unstable for the last five? If so, it is extremely unlikely she is exhibiting BPD traits. Emotional instability is one of the hallmarks of such traits and, if the traits are strong, it would have started showing itself when the honeymoon period ended -- not ten years later. Signs of instability include, e.g., a push-you-away and pull-you-back behavior.

Her dad is/was not a very balanced guy.

Do you mean he is emotionally unstable? If so, in what ways is it evident? I ask because strong BPD traits are believed to be caused by genetics and/or abuse or abandonment (e.g., an emotionally unavailable parent). Hence, if the dad was emotionally unstable, it would have greatly increased your W's risk of developing strong BPD traits.

[DrWife]

You have an obligation as a father to remove your children if there is any abuse happening! If she will not get help and take it seriously yes you had better leave her, and take the kids with you! It's completely unacceptable.

[Just A Joe]

Did her friends leave because of job opportunities elsewhere or because she drove them away? I ask because a BPDer typically does black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad."

Yeah, a few of her closest friends were calling her toxic behind her back within five years of our marriage. I don't know if they were trying to warn me then. I was probably in denial. I wanted it to work. There was crap or signs showing up early- in the first few years. All-out wars or arguments for little stupid stuff. I've been called every name in the book. And her sons have too.

 

 

/

Is that where the kids got their illness?

Her mom had two bouts of cancer and it took her a long time to pass. Kids don't have cancer.

 

I assume you are referring to a physical, not a mental, illness.Are you saying that she was stable and loving for the first 10 years and then unstable for the last five?

I suspect she was cheating five years prior to that, but my oldest provided me with evidence, including descriptions of the love nest and physical evidence.

 

 

Emotional instability is one of the hallmarks of such traits and, if the traits are strong, it would have started showing itself when the honeymoon period ended -- not ten years later. Signs of instability include, e.g., a push-you-away and pull-you-back behavior.Do you mean he is emotionally unstable? If so, in what ways is it evident?

Life has been push and pull for at least 15 years. Much more will drive me to the edge of a cliff where I will step off and not care. I'm only here now for my kids. Otherwise, I'd be on the street, in jail or living elsewhere.

[Just A Joe]

This morning she told me she has a lawyer. Knew it was coming.

 

I'd have one two, but I spent the last 18 months unemployed. Lost a well paying, respectable job with banker's hours and then she contracted a very serious illness. Okay now, but she was in the hospital for a long time- about seven months. Docs told us several times that she would not make it. Was told to get a will, say goodbyes, do the life thing. HA.

 

Job hunting was put on hold while I became her permanent hospital fixture husband and cared for the kids as well. Neighbors pitched in with that and my elderly parents left their own home and lived in my house during that time. I slept at home once or twice a week during that time. I lost about 30 pounds, despite all the food neighbors and friends were bringing us. (It's a Southern thang y'all.)

 

So, I finally landed temp work and have another interview for something very respectable tomorrow. God willin. Prayers accepted.

 

The lawyer I talked to wants a $2500 retainer. Despite all that unemployment, I paid every bill except for the mortgage (which is less than the household bills). I also bought at least half the groceries. Pile on kids' medical co-pays and gas and I am near ruin going into my 50s. She has a pension promised for her work and can retire in a few years. I'll be sitting at a keyboard until I die.

[Downtown]

Joe, you've written four posts in this thread without asking a single question. I find that amazing, given that you are describing a wife exhibiting strong traits of a personality disorder. If I had such a W interacting with my two young children, I sure as hell would want to know how she is likely to behave and what can be expected if a shared custody occurs. That is, I would have numerous questions to ask. If you have similar concerns -- and are not just here to vent -- I suggest you follow the link I provided above to see if the description of typical BPDer behavior sounds very much like your W's behavior.

[Just A Joe]

Your dad was Robert Duvall?

 

Yes Sir, my father was The Great Santini. Snap too. Atten-shun. At ease. How's the chow? All familiar and common phrases in the master's quarters.

[Just A Joe]

Checked out link and this one as well: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2826453#post2826453

 

Inigo and I have very similar stories. Thought I was pulling into the train station for a leisurely ride to the repair yard, but I can't fix this train wreck. I no longer feel guilty about that. I'm not qualified.

 

In therapy now, but it's slow. I can't see the doc but once every other month. It's a time issue AND a money issue. They keep peddling anti-pressants, but I'd rather feel the pain.

 

I appreciate your feedback and I'll share this with my doc, who is a little too quick with the scripts and not on quick on the talk.

[Downtown]

Joe, seeking a professional opinion from your therapist is a great idea. If you describe your W's behavior to him, there is a good chance he will candidly say "it sure sounds to me like she has strong traits of ...." Of course, you won't get an "official diagnosis" without your W being there for him to examine. Yet, if you were to take your W along too, it is unlikely he would tell her -- much less you -- that she "has BPD" even if that diagnosis were warranted.

 

One reason is that he knows a high functioning BPDer almost certainly will quit therapy on hearing such a dreaded diagnosis. Another is that insurance companies rarely cover therapy costs when the diagnosis is BPD because they regard it (falsely) as being untreatable. IME, therapists usually avoid such problems (and having to testify at divorce hearings) by "diagnosing" it instead as one of the associated side effects: depression, anxiety, or PTSD. So, again, I applaud your decision to go to a clinical psychologist on your own.