Entropy3000 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) That's just my point. You can't assume the opposite either! We have only the OPs perspective to go on and we don't have any idea what his definition of either 'slutty' dress or 'flirting' is. Nor do we know what type of dress or behaviour her husband finds acceptable, or anything about the dynamics of their relationship. A lot of people here are just assuming that because this woman likes to wear revealing clothes and enjoys an undefined type of attention from men, she must be a 'slut' who is likely to cheat on her husband. Talk about being judgemental and stereotyping someone! I am taking it from the fact that this guy felt enough of an issue to ask on this forum. If you go back and read the OP, it is not really that ambiguous. Dressed scanitly and flirting. Well, in all reasonable analysis of just that information I don't see myself as rushing to judgement so to speak. I can take that at face value. The message is also in the context of reading over and over again the number of weak men posting here that put up with way to much cr@p from wives who are seeking attention elsewhere. So sure, I have no problem with that bias. I am up front about it. It is not about bashing women. It is about advising naive, nice guys. A particular albeit narrow view. But it is intended to be. So I stand on my position, not be be stubborn but in that I reread the OP and still feel the same way. I also accept your view of what is reasonable and it is certainly compatible with my views. So we are left to squeeze the nuance out of the OP. His wife just might be a slut. We cannot tell from his post. She does not get a free pass. He needs to not feel he is wrong. His feelings matter. He needs to look further into this. It is a potential problem. That said the discussion is what is really more interesting, so while I do refer back to the OP, I am interested in views in general. I do not have to agree with them and folks do not have to agree with me. I am however fascinated by some of the attitudes. I confess I do get dismayed by some, but it is what it is. I am trying to be the wiser for it. Edited June 12, 2011 by Entropy3000 Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 That's just my point. You can't assume the opposite either! We have only the OPs perspective to go on and we don't have any idea what his definition of either 'slutty' dress or 'flirting' is. Nor do we know what type of dress or behaviour her husband finds acceptable, or anything about the dynamics of their relationship. A lot of people here are just assuming that because this woman likes to wear revealing clothes and enjoys an undefined type of attention from men, she must be a 'slut' who is likely to cheat on her husband. Talk about being judgemental and stereotyping someone! wrong, try again. the OP did not offer a perspective, the OP asked for other people's perspectives. nor did the OP say anything about a relationship in the first post. just because you don't like the perspective someone offered doesn't make them wrong and you right. like most women in such threads, you are the one assuming, and then presenting a fantasy scenario as justification for it. your opinion is not the only one, snowflake. Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 wrong, try again. the OP did not offer a perspective, the OP asked for other people's perspectives. nor did the OP say anything about a relationship in the first post. just because you don't like the perspective someone offered doesn't make them wrong and you right. like most women in such threads, you are the one assuming, and then presenting a fantasy scenario as justification for it. your opinion is not the only one, snowflake. Good grief, what was that little outburst for? Has somebody touched a nerve? This thread is not about who's right or wrong. The OP implied, by the words he used, what his opinion of this woman is and others have assumed the same thing. He basically asked 'because she dresses scantily. flirts with and enjoys the attentions of other men - does that mean there's something wrong with her marriage'? The answer from a lot of people (mostly men) was, no, there's something wrong with her and her behaviour etc etc. I wasn't personally assuming anything. I just offered a different perspective and I didn't say that perspective was right or wrong. What I said was, and I'll bold it for emphasis, none of us can answer this question because we don't know enough about the woman, the way she was dressed, how she was behaving or what her husband thinks of it all. We can't possibly know if there is something wrong with someone's marriage based on such little information - that, whether you like it not, is a fact. We can, of course, speculate until the cows come home, but I think the OP was after a more definitive answer than we can give him. I'm well aware my opinion on the woman's dress and behaviour is not the only one - I was responding to Entropy3000s post and he clearly understood what I was saying. So I'm not sure what the purpose of your 'jibe' here is - or what you mean by calling me 'snowflake'! I can only assume you're being condescending, which is completely unnecessary and, in my 'humble' opinion, rather sexist and immature. My apologies to the OP that this post was a little off topic. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 This thread shows that some women simply feel men feel men don't deserve any respect and don't give a damn about our feelings. If this behavior is okay then looking at porn must be okay but that seems to be a horrible sin. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I was wondering, if a woman who is married or spoken for, still acts like she really needs attention, (ie - dressing skantily, flirting with other men, etc) does it mean her current relationship might be on a downward slope? Typically, a happily married woman or taken person, would not do this, right? well, we've got to have something to do while our husbands are locked in the den pulling their puds to skankily clad porn chicks or flirting with webcam girls. Link to post Share on other sites
Lorelai Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Coming late into the discussion.... I don't think I dress inappropriately now, and I dressed the same way when I was in a committed relationship. I'm large-chested, and believe it or not, a v-neck that does not show cleavage when standing visually makes a person's upper half look smaller. So yes, I wear v-neck tops. Someone would have to actively be trying to get an eyeful to do so, and usually when I've been in relationships the only ones actively trying to get an eyeful were the people I've been with. But I've also had male coworkers comment on my chest even when I wasn't wearing a top that particularly drew attention to it. Admittedly I work in a male field and this was an on-the-road assignment (though they knew I was in a committed relationship at the time) with me being the only woman on the crew, but I think there are some assets one can't hide except possibly with a burqua. Regardless of how people dress or behave, sometimes you might realize there is sexual tension between you and someone else when one or both of you are in a committed relationship. I don't think anyone hits the age of 30 without having that happen at least once. There is a married guy who I am friends with. When we met I was also in a committed relationship. Both relationships were having problems (mine has ended in the three years we've known each other, his is fortunately still together). I do have to say he was more of a flirt, but we clicked well... and I recognized there was tension there. What did I do? When he suggested meeting me outside of the circumstances under which we met (he worked at a store I frequented), I made sure his wife would be there. And I befriended her too. He and I have actually discussed in the years since that yes, we were both attracted to each other then. But he knows I have way too much respect for his wife to ever go there... and so does he. Neither one of us were wearing slutty clothes or going out of our way to seek out someone else we were attracted to, but life slapped us with it anyway. Regardless of the clothes or the banter between two opposite-sex friends, what matters is what people decide to do when they face temptation. Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 well, we've got to have something to do while our husbands are locked in the den pulling their puds to skankily clad porn chicks or flirting with webcam girls. This is pretty much what I was thinking. Men think it's a travesty if their girlfriends/wives make efforts to attract a variety of male attention. But somehow, there's nothing wrong with those men seeking out a variety of female imagery to fixate their attention on -- and females not just dressed in a revealing way, but naked or performing all manner of sex acts. I'm not convinced. Link to post Share on other sites
ScreamingTrees Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 This is pretty much what I was thinking. Men think it's a travesty if their girlfriends/wives make efforts to attract a variety of male attention. But somehow, there's nothing wrong with those men seeking out a variety of female imagery to fixate their attention on -- and females not just dressed in a revealing way, but naked or performing all manner of sex acts. I'm not convinced. Well, I think it's all innappropriate for both sides.. That obviously wouldn't be a healthy relationship, would it? A man shouldn't have to be watching porn, and although it isn't physical cheating it I'm sure it'd be disrespectful to their partner. But at the same time, two wrongs don't make a right. I think it's a travesty if either sex is dressing provocatively or looking at outside sources for pleasure.. Real or fantasy.. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Well, I think it's all innappropriate for both sides.. That obviously wouldn't be a healthy relationship, would it? A man shouldn't have to be watching porn, and although it isn't physical cheating it I'm sure it'd be disrespectful to their partner. But at the same time, two wrongs don't make a right. I think it's a travesty if either sex is dressing provocatively or looking at outside sources for pleasure.. Real or fantasy.. I disagree, the real "travesty" is the concept of monogamy Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 This thread shows that some women simply feel men feel men don't deserve any respect and don't give a damn about our feelings. If this behavior is okay then looking at porn must be okay but that seems to be a horrible sin. What behaviour exactly Woggle? If somebody would kindly define exactly what this woman was doing (OP do you have a video?) then maybe we could all have a sensible discussion. There are some men who believe a woman talking to, or laughing with, a man other than her husband is 'flirting' - which in my mind (and my partner's) is completely ridiculous. If you picture the woman in a short skirt and low cut top then all of a sudden a lot of men will say she's not just 'flirting' but 'coming on strong' and ready to jump into bed with him. We'll be having a thread next that's entitled 'all women who wear short skirts and smile at men are easy meat'. Oh, and women 'flirting' with men do not masturbate or reach orgasm whilst doing so - none of the women I know anyway. If they did then I could probably understand the comparison between harmless flirting and pornography. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 This is pretty much what I was thinking. Men think it's a travesty if their girlfriends/wives make efforts to attract a variety of male attention. But somehow, there's nothing wrong with those men seeking out a variety of female imagery to fixate their attention on -- and females not just dressed in a revealing way, but naked or performing all manner of sex acts. I'm not convinced. There are times when I actually start to see women's point about porn and things of that nature until I see threads like this. If porn is wrong then surely stuff like this must be. This lets me know that some women are just complete hypocrites about this issue. Show men some consideration on this issue and I guarantee I will show some understanding about porn. Link to post Share on other sites
Eve Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I disagree, the real "travesty" is the concept of monogamy That does not make sense. Why get 'married' then? All in all, if you spot that a potential partner gets off on their sexual prowess towards others, male or female. Like, that is just who they are. It is because that is who they are. Don't marry them if you believe in marriage in the intended sense. Simple. Marriage is a commodity to many. Know what you will tolerate as often peoples decisions are not traits, rather unmovable life long conscious decisions. Leave them to it.. Take care, Eve x Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 What behaviour exactly Woggle? If somebody would kindly define exactly what this woman was doing (OP do you have a video?) then maybe we could all have a sensible discussion. There are some men who believe a woman talking to, or laughing with, a man other than her husband is 'flirting' - which in my mind (and my partner's) is completely ridiculous. If you picture the woman in a short skirt and low cut top then all of a sudden a lot of men will say she's not just 'flirting' but 'coming on strong' and ready to jump into bed with him. We'll be having a thread next that's entitled 'all women who wear short skirts and smile at men are easy meat'. Oh, and women 'flirting' with men do not masturbate or reach orgasm whilst doing so - none of the women I know anyway. If they did then I could probably understand the comparison between harmless flirting and pornography. In what world is looking at inanimate images worse than actually interacting with another person? What kind of logic is this? Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Good grief, what was that little outburst for? Has somebody touched a nerve? This thread is not about who's right or wrong. The OP implied, by the words he used, what his opinion of this woman is and others have assumed the same thing. He basically asked 'because she dresses scantily. flirts with and enjoys the attentions of other men - does that mean there's something wrong with her marriage'? The answer from a lot of people (mostly men) was, no, there's something wrong with her and her behaviour etc etc. I wasn't personally assuming anything. I just offered a different perspective and I didn't say that perspective was right or wrong. What I said was, and I'll bold it for emphasis, none of us can answer this question because we don't know enough about the woman, the way she was dressed, how she was behaving or what her husband thinks of it all. We can't possibly know if there is something wrong with someone's marriage based on such little information - that, whether you like it not, is a fact. We can, of course, speculate until the cows come home, but I think the OP was after a more definitive answer than we can give him. I'm well aware my opinion on the woman's dress and behaviour is not the only one - I was responding to Entropy3000s post and he clearly understood what I was saying. So I'm not sure what the purpose of your 'jibe' here is - or what you mean by calling me 'snowflake'! I can only assume you're being condescending, which is completely unnecessary and, in my 'humble' opinion, rather sexist and immature. My apologies to the OP that this post was a little off topic. I am saying there is proabbly a probelm with their marriage. I am encouraging the guy to man-up about it. It takes two. So the blame is not all on her. If he accepts behavior he is against he is very much the major part of the problem. Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 In what world is looking at inanimate images worse than actually interacting with another person? What kind of logic is this? Sorry, I thought I'd explained. Women are not 'getting off' while interacting with men in public places, whether they're flirting or not - there is no sexual arousal or climax involved. It's not disrespectful to a SO to have non-sexual fun with someone else - that's just normal life and normal human behaviour. I agree that if the behaviour becomes sexual that's a different thing entirely. It is however thought, by many women, to be disrespectful to seek sexual pleasure and release from pictures, films, live internet shows etc showing intimate parts of another, or several other, women's bodies who may be performing intimate sexual acts on themselves or, very often, each other. Does that help? Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 That does not make sense. Why get 'married' then? All in all, if you spot that a potential partner gets off on their sexual prowess towards others, male or female. Like, that is just who they are. It is because that is who they are. Don't marry them if you believe in marriage in the intended sense. Simple. Marriage is a commodity to many. Know what you will tolerate as often peoples decisions are not traits, rather unmovable life long conscious decisions. Leave them to it.. Take care, Eve x LOL,actually I see zero value in traditional marriage, that was my point:) Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 well, we've got to have something to do while our husbands are locked in the den pulling their puds to skankily clad porn chicks or flirting with webcam girls. The difference is that porn is a visual and does not involve the live boy toy. Bodily fluids can exchange. But that aside, lets admit that the real issue is the extreme possiblity of entering into an EA. Now webcams, you make a better argument. Still visual but webcams are another animal over just porn. So good point. Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 LOL,actually I see zero value in traditional marriage, that was my point:) Then it is not for you. Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I am saying there is proabbly a probelm with their marriage. I am encouraging the guy to man-up about it. It takes two. So the blame is not all on her. If he accepts behavior he is against he is very much the major part of the problem. Ok, thanks for clarifying. Though, as I said before, this woman's husband may not need to 'man-up'. He may be very happy with his wife dressing in such a manner and enjoying the company of other men - I don't mean accepting her 'behaviour' (though it's still not clear exactly what that was), I mean he gets off on it or, at the very least, gets a kick out of it! Maybe that's not your thing and it certainly isn't mine - but each to their own. If they're both happy and, assuming they're both being faithful, (though some people don't even seem to demand that in marriage these days) then there's nobody to 'blame' and no problem in their marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Sorry, I thought I'd explained. Women are not 'getting off' while interacting with men in public places, whether they're flirting or not - there is no sexual arousal or climax involved. It's not disrespectful to a SO to have non-sexual fun with someone else - that's just normal life and normal human behaviour. I agree that if the behaviour becomes sexual that's a different thing entirely. It is however thought, by many women, to be disrespectful to seek sexual pleasure and release from pictures, films, live internet shows etc showing intimate parts of another, or several other, women's bodies who may be performing intimate sexual acts on themselves or, very often, each other. Does that help? Women are getting emotionally involved which could lead to someone getting off but mostly it takes away from the primary relationship. Much more dangerous situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Sorry, I thought I'd explained. Women are not 'getting off' while interacting with men in public places, whether they're flirting or not - there is no sexual arousal or climax involved. It's not disrespectful to a SO to have non-sexual fun with someone else - that's just normal life and normal human behaviour. I agree that if the behaviour becomes sexual that's a different thing entirely. It is however thought, by many women, to be disrespectful to seek sexual pleasure and release from pictures, films, live internet shows etc showing intimate parts of another, or several other, women's bodies who may be performing intimate sexual acts on themselves or, very often, each other. Does that help? Many women flirt with men in order to feel attractive and even you have to admit this is borderline behavior. Many affairs start with just some harmless flirting. Simply being a social and friendly person is an entirely different ball game. I actually agree somewhat with you about men who look at porn while in a relationship but I am sick and tired of women thinking respect does not have to go both ways. If women showed more consideration on issues that concern men instead of just giving us crap like in this thread I would gladly be on the same page as them. Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Ok, thanks for clarifying. Though, as I said before, this woman's husband may not need to 'man-up'. He may be very happy with his wife dressing in such a manner and enjoying the company of other men - I don't mean accepting her 'behaviour' (though it's still not clear exactly what that was), I mean he gets off on it or, at the very least, gets a kick out of it! Maybe that's not your thing and it certainly isn't mine - but each to their own. If they're both happy and, assuming they're both being faithful, (though some people don't even seem to demand that in marriage these days) then there's nobody to 'blame' and no problem in their marriage. What you are saying is a given for me. If the couple are cool with it all then cool it is. I totally agrewe with what you are saying. He could have helped with the information he provided. I suspect he was intentional with the ambiguity. So we agree!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Then it is not for you. you are 100 % correct, I'm finding that being single, committed to none is better in every single way than being a loyal devoted wifey ever was Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 What you are saying is a given for me. If the couple are cool with it all then cool it is. I totally agrewe with what you are saying. He could have helped with the information he provided. I suspect he was intentional with the ambiguity. So we agree!!!! Glad we got that cleared up! Link to post Share on other sites
Enchanted Girl Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Ironically this woman always keeps tabs on her husband though. She phones him everyday at lunchtime, just to see what he's doing. She does it even if she has absolutely nothing to talk about. I find her to be a hypocrite. Actually, people who cheat or have cheated in the past are much more likely to be paranoid about their spouses/partners doing the same to them because they know how easy it is to get away with it. I never cheated, but I have girl friend's who have and they are SO paranoid about being cheated on. Much more than me. I've also never been cheated on before, so that's probably why I'm not that paranoid about it. Link to post Share on other sites
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