Restless_Journeyman Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I agree that women should be able to wear and do whatever they like. No doubt about it. But my coworker takes it too far and asks other men to come over to her house and sleep with her. And she says it infront of everyone. Too far for you and probably for many other people. If she is this open about it chances are her husband is aware. It's up to him either to ok it, stop her, or leave her. Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I agree that women should be able to wear and do whatever they like. No doubt about it. But my coworker takes it too far and asks other men to come over to her house and sleep with her. And she says it infront of everyone. She has the right to wear whatever she wants and do anything she wants with anyone she wants at anytime she wants. "she wants" is the operative phrase. Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 So, you and the other women in this thread that agree with you would be just as okay if a woman was wearing slutty clothes that your husband was staring down the front of and behind of and flirting with him as long as she wasn't touching him or taking him somewhere in private? Because I NEVER get caught in these situations. Men talk to me, but its always obvious that I'm happily taken to them and therefore they don't usually try anything. I don't flirt. I only dress sexy for my boyfriend. And when girls come up to him dressing like this and flirting, I wrap my arms around him and glare at them until they go away. He also told me he makes special efforts to stay away from girls like this for my sake so I don't misinterpret anything. And I don't flirt so he doesn't misinterpret anything either. It's win win all around. you must be crazy. think of all of the threads you're missing out on here. you could make one every other day asking about how to friend zone three or four guys who ask for your number. then when you decided which one you wanted to 'accidentally' sleep with you could make another thread talking about how your boyfriend didn't call one day, and all of the single women in this thread would instantly come to your aid telling you how he's definitely cheating on you. their facts would be solid as stone, since they would provide supermarket checkout magazine studies to back them up. then when you get rid of the boyfriend you could go to all of THEIR threads and tell them how their problems aren't their fault either, it's perfectly ok that they picked up a random guy in a bar while their 9 month boyfriend's brother was watching. after all, they're just dating, they should be able to do whatever they want! then when you're all single at 50 you could jump the fence and go lesbian, and all move in together. think of how much you'd save on the rent. normal life, hah! you don't know what you're missing. Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Friedman Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 The take away, I see here is that from a man's persepctive the choice of the marriage partner is key right up front. Duh? That said things can change over time. So find a wife who is right for you. Someone who is compatible in their values at it pertains to marriage. DO NOT ASSUME, just because they are nice people that their expectations about marriage are the same. Beware of bait and switch. If things go south, remember life is short and you can move on a more wiser person for the experience. Spouses do not have to put up with abusive behavior. It works both ways. If you met your wife and you guys were living a partying life style then do not assume she wishes to change after marriage. Talk about it. Set appropriate boundries. Do not in the stuper of being in love surrender your self respect. This is what usually happens. Guys are wanting to show their wife they love and trust them. I totally agree with that, but one has to be careful about being too naive for their own good. Find out what she believes she can and cannot do despite your disapproval. This way one can avoid most of this. It is unfortunate that many men now have to conside per-nups that call out infidelity on their wives part as a potential problem. It appears it is archaic not to do this. Sigh. My wife is not a party girl. I had my fill of party girls before I was married. I am so glad I did not marry one. Again, that is just me. YMMV. All that needs to be said really. Men today are bombarded with nonsense, how they should be open minded, not judge, be controlling, etc. Just remember, it's your life. If it goes south these "enlightened" folks won't be their to help you pick up the pieces( ore likely they'll be spouting some nonsense about how both parties have some fault). When it comes to picking a life partner be as judgmental as you want. And don't try to change anyone. They've been shaped by 20-30 years of life experience so it will be a useless pursuit. Appreciate the good stable women who don't need validation from men every time they go out. Treat the rest like the cum dumpsters they are. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 That is HYPERGAMY. Not MONOGAMY. If you do not know the difference, take a look. i am quite sure you are the one who does not know what i am talking about. i have no interest in finding a spouse who is either equal or higher in socioeconomic status than i. i'm really not sure where you read that in ANY of what i was saying. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Meant trendy. I was only using your word archaic to represent something 30 years old. But the point is that you have not met the person yet who you wish to marry. So with all due respect you just flat don't have the experience yet to see what is being discussed here. Yet you are so smart you know more than those who have such experience. Wondermous. I am not being moral at all other than to say that the behavior I suggest is supportive of marriage. Not moral. Pragmatic. you believe the behaviour you suggest is supportive of marriage. i believe the behaviour i suggest is supportive of marriage. i do not have first-hand experience, but if you choose to ignore the fact that i am stating opinions from both myself, my two parents, and others whom i have discussed this with over the course of the last 24 hours then that is your issue and not mine. all of the people whom i have discussed this with have not agreed with your view. i don't agree with you, in regards to your view on my opinion on relationships nor your own. however, it's probably due to the way were both brought up and personal experiences. as a person who has been through a very long relationship plus others and never cheated nor been cheated on, perhaps i just do not understand what it does to a person to be cheated on and to carry that fear around in such a way that they must project it into the control of others. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Open your mind for just a nano-second. Imagine a time where you have invested fifteen years in your marriage. You have two kids with your husband. You both have endured good times and bad. You have a real investment in this guy and he in you. You are now 39. You are not at your most nubile for sure. You just might have a different view. Now if you immediatley come back and KNOW what you would feel then, then I suggest you are being disengenuous with yourself. mind is open. i can easily see the situation as i see it all the time in my own home. except she is 51 and he 54. i still stand behind my view, and my mother's. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 then you will be one of about 10% of all women, because the rest do just that when they get to around 29-32. and the men aren't controlling them, the women are the ones changing their tune freely at that point. you better earn a lot in your 20s if you're gonna quit to stay home for 5 years to raise those kids to school age. it's the way of the world, you'll see it soon enough. well i'm a med student so i do understand i will be earning higher than that of most of my peers. i also don't see how a woman would need to quit to stay home to raise children? both my parents worked 8 - 6 jobs the entire time i was growing up. day care exists. Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Actually, a woman / man that's flirting with anyone else other than their own mate, are exploring their options. I think we need to define 'flirting' because I believe I 'flirt' with everyone (in a non-sexual way) and I am most certainly NOT exploring my options. What's being stated in this thread is the "gateway" to a fizzling relationship....when people start flirting with others, it means they're loosing interest in their current love interest. No it doesn't. We don't know if the woman in the OP has behaved like this (still don't know what she was actually doing) from the beginning of her marriage - this may be 'normal' in their relationship. You can't possibly make a call like that based on so little info. Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) i also don't see how a woman would need to quit to stay home to raise children? both my parents worked 8 - 6 jobs the entire time i was growing up. day care exists. they did that out of necessity, not want. back when i was hiring for hotel jobs i interviewed multiple women who had graduate degrees, that were applying for jobs as banquet waitresses after having quit management positions at large corporations. why? because they were planning on children and wanted to be home during the day. Look, for example, at the Stanford class of '81. Fifty-seven percent of mothers in that class spent at least a year at home caring for their infant children in the first decade after graduation. One out of four have stayed home three or more years. Look at Harvard Business School. A survey of women from the classes of 1981, 1985 and 1991 found that only 38 percent were working full time. Look at professional women in surveys across the board. Between one-quarter and one-third are out of the work force, depending on the study and the profession. Look at the United States Census, which shows that the number of children being cared for by stay-at-home moms has increased nearly 13 percent in less than a decade. At the same time, the percentage of new mothers who go back to work fell from 59 percent in 1998 to 55 percent in 2000. Look, too, at the mothers who have not left completely but have scaled down or redefined their roles in the crucial career-building years (25 to 44). Two-thirds of those mothers work fewer than 40 hours a week -- in other words, part time. Only 5 percent work 50 or more hours weekly.link FACT: when the economy is good, women do in fact quit successful jobs to stay at home with children, not just some of which are highly educated having degrees from prestigious universities, but especially if they are highly educated and have degrees from prestigious universities, because the men they married are also successful and quite simply, they can. Edited June 13, 2011 by thatone Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 i am quite sure you are the one who does not know what i am talking about. i have no interest in finding a spouse who is either equal or higher in socioeconomic status than i. i'm really not sure where you read that in ANY of what i was saying. I am talking about the general sense of trading up. Surely you are not so dense and just pretend for argument sake. Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 i have no interest in finding a spouse we got that who is either equal or higher in socioeconomic status than i. YET in 7 or 8 years, as i said, you'll be another woman making one of these "why can't i find a husband" threads. we get quite a few of those around here. Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 well i'm a med student so i do understand i will be earning higher than that of most of my peers. i also don't see how a woman would need to quit to stay home to raise children? both my parents worked 8 - 6 jobs the entire time i was growing up. day care exists. Which explains why you think you know so much. It is entoxciating to be so brilliant. Just think how smart you will be later on with years of actual experience. Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 It is part of playing just the tip. It is disrespectful behavior. A mating ritual if you will. Sorry, Entropy, we may agree on some things but this is not one of them. How can anyone determine where the 'tip' is in someone's behaviour, other than by what their partner finds disrespectful. We're all different. Men and women find one another attractive, even people they're not married to. That's just a fact of life and it's not going to change just because we're all scared to admit it. Some people are attractive enough (just to clarify, I'm not necessarily talking 'looks' here) that they don't need to 'seek' attention and yet they get it anyway. I couldn't possibly accuse my partner of being disrespectful just because another woman very obviously finds him attractive.........and, provided I'm secure in our relationship and I know he's not going to stray, why shouldn't he enjoy the attention? If I wasn't secure for some reason, that would be an entirely different scenario. I still think someone needs to define 'flirting' because I suspect we're talking about very different behaviours here. Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 mind is open. i can easily see the situation as i see it all the time in my own home. except she is 51 and he 54. i still stand behind my view, and my mother's. I stand by the fact you still do not have first hand knowledge of being in a marriage. It matters. Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy3000 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Sorry, Entropy, we may agree on some things but this is not one of them. How can anyone determine where the 'tip' is in someone's behaviour, other than by what their partner finds disrespectful. We're all different. Men and women find one another attractive, even people they're not married to. That's just a fact of life and it's not going to change just because we're all scared to admit it. Some people are attractive enough (just to clarify, I'm not necessarily talking 'looks' here) that they don't need to 'seek' attention and yet they get it anyway. I couldn't possibly accuse my partner of being disrespectful just because another woman very obviously finds him attractive.........and, provided I'm secure in our relationship and I know he's not going to stray, why shouldn't he enjoy the attention? If I wasn't secure for some reason, that would be an entirely different scenario. I still think someone needs to define 'flirting' because I suspect we're talking about very different behaviours here. Yes I think you are talking about something completely off the topic. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I have been married for 33 years. You just do not know yet. You like we all were at your age just think you are smarter than others. That will change. i don't think i am smarter than you, and i don't understand why you would start throwing that around. i think i have a very different opinion to you and i do not think that is WRONG, whereas you seem to think it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I am talking about the general sense of trading up. Surely you are not so dense and just pretend for argument sake. oh SORRY! you asked me to look up hypergamy SO I DID! amazing, really. and since you feel that the definition of hypergamy is what i engage in, i disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 they did that out of necessity, not want. back when i was hiring for hotel jobs i interviewed multiple women who had graduate degrees, that were applying for jobs as banquet waitresses after having quit management positions at large corporations. why? because they were planning on children and wanted to be home during the day. link FACT: when the economy is good, women do in fact quit successful jobs to stay at home with children, not just some of which are highly educated having degrees from prestigious universities, but especially if they are highly educated and have degrees from prestigious universities, because the men they married are also successful and quite simply, they can. ok, so you are saying that these women WANT to stay at home with children. i completely agree that some women want that. some women DON'T want that. some women have to do it and some women have to work. i am saying that when you generalise and say that in 10 years i'll be wanting a husband to GIVE me children and to work so they can be raised while i stay at home and so because of that i'll change my views on what is okay and what isn't in a relationship so as to ... ensnare (forgive me if that is not what you're implying here) him for at least 5 years, I DISAGREE. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 we got that in 7 or 8 years, as i said, you'll be another woman making one of these "why can't i find a husband" threads. we get quite a few of those around here. i'm only quoting this because i think it is absolutely ridiculous that you have stooped to lumping me into "one of those women" when all i've done is express an opinion different to yours. you have no idea what i'll be in 7 or 8 years, thankfully. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Which explains why you think you know so much. It is entoxciating to be so brilliant. Just think how smart you will be later on with years of actual experience. oh get down from your high ground. i don't think i am smarter than you, nor do i think i am brilliant. i'm a med student because i work damn hard and am dedicated to what i want to do for a career. and i only stated that because i agreed with the fact that i will most likely NOT face the financial hardship that others may have to in raising a family and so i DO have a choice in what i want from a mate, NOT because i am trying to say that because i am a med student that i am any smarter than anybody else. Link to post Share on other sites
Intergalactic Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Originally Posted by Intergalactic i have no interest in finding a spouse we got that oh, and way to skew my words AGAIN - i do want to find a spouse, just not one who is of higher socioeconomic standing than i am. i'm not interested in money, i'm interested in equal and complementary love. therefore i am not HYPERGAMOUS. which is what the reply was in relation to. Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 All it means is that there is some need that isn't fully being filled by their husband I'm sure this isn't quite what you meant here but I would like to point out - especially to those men and women who are still seeking a partner - that no single person will ever meet ALL your needs. If you expect that, most relationships will be doomed to failure. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm NOT talking about sexual needs here. IMO, these should always be filled within the marriage (although, these days, many people won't necessarily agree). What I'm talking about is social and emotional needs and, again, it's different for every one of us. Getting any type of need met outside of a marital relationship should be negotiated and agreed between the partners ie how often you each go out alone and where it's acceptable for you to go, how often you see your friends, whether you are 'allowed' friends of the opposite sex, when you visit family (together or apart) etc. These 'negotiations' will include how you may choose to interact with other men or women. At one end of the spectrum we have cultures where it is expected that contact with the opposite sex, outside of family members, is forbidden. At the other end we have people in open or polyamorous marriages. Most of us in the Western world lie somewhere between the two and it's up to the couple themselves to decide where the boundaries are. For those of you saying male/female interaction outside a marriage is dangerous and the first step towards having an affair, perhaps you might consider exactly where you draw the line with your own partner. Are they allowed to smile at the opposite sex? Can they have a conversation with them? Are they allowed to laugh at another man/woman's jokes? Is there an acceptable time limit to their conversation? Is any kind of physical touch allowed - a tap on the arm for example? At what point do you start to consider their behaviour disrespectful? And does it make a difference what your partner and the other man/woman are wearing or where the interaction is taking place? We all want, need and expect different things from our partners. Relationships work, or don't work, based on how compatible our needs and expectations are. So, going back to the woman in the OP and her husband - who knows what the rules for their relationship are? Why does it even matter? Unless, of course, the person observing the woman has 'intentions' that he's worried might be crossing her boundaries? Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Open your mind for just a nano-second. Imagine a time where you have invested fifteen years in your marriage. You have two kids with your husband. You both have endured good times and bad. You have a real investment in this guy and he in you. You are now 39. You are not at your most nubile for sure. You just might have a different view. Now if you immediatley come back and KNOW what you would feel then, then I suggest you are being disengenuous with yourself. The post Intergalactic was agreeing with here was mine, and I am that 'not quite so nubile' woman you're talking about. I'm twenty years older than she is, with a lot of relationship experience and I think she's one of very few people making any sense on this thread. I spent 14 years with my exH and, in all that time, we never once had problems with either of us behaving disrespectfully with other men or women. When the relationship fell apart and neither of us felt 'secure', that's when other people became threatening. In my current relationship, despite being 'not quite so nubile' I still have no concerns about infidelity - provided our relationship stays good, I never will have - and, as I've already said, we both enjoy a little harmless 'attention' from the opposite sex. If two people are happy and secure in their relationship then how either of them dresses or behaves is nobody else's business and it's not for us to determine what level of respect or fidelity is involved. Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 oh get down from your high ground. i don't think i am smarter than you, nor do i think i am brilliant. i'm a med student because i work damn hard and am dedicated to what i want to do for a career. and i only stated that because i agreed with the fact that i will most likely NOT face the financial hardship that others may have to in raising a family and so i DO have a choice in what i want from a mate, NOT because i am trying to say that because i am a med student that i am any smarter than anybody else. he's right. we were the same way you were when we were your age, it's not gender specific. but just as we grew out of it so will you. everyone will suffer financial hardship in some form, btw. you'll figure that out when it happens too. Link to post Share on other sites
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