Fedup&givingup Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker To each his (her) own. I need not spend a penny to show the girl I Love how much she's worth to me, and likewise to her. What if he values you enough to spend money on things like a house, or your children--something with intrinsic value? I immediately think "gold digger"--I'm not trying to be funny, when I think of women with enormous rings, I think of Kobe Bryant's wife. I think it's more a form of blind consumerism at it's best. The only reason you, and women like you, want a diamond, is because you were programmed to want one. They're not rare jewels, they're just monopolized by a huge consumerist empire. They've programmed women to respond to advertisements, I think DeBeers has influenced society more than any other company in human history, they've actually gotten it to the point where some women think that exorbitant amounts of money need to go toward things that are inherently unvaluable as a demonstration of love--that's powerful. Granted, I think you're on to something about chivalry. The concept of paying for marriage IS very medieval. If you feel that your true love will be happy with your proposal without spending much, that's her perrogative. The man that spends something honorable on his future bride's engagement ring WILL spend considerably on the house and children. That's part of it. Gold digger to some, successful and eager to please is my plea. I have contributed financially in my current marriage, and when I am a CPA, I will be financially independent; therefore, the size of the ring definitely will matter then. You are passing a judgement on me that is WAY off. I don't really like jewelry, or gobs of it. I think too much takes away from the appeal of it. It's not the actual diamond itself, or the jewelry aspect of it, and for the final time....IT'S A SYMBOL OF THE MAN'S LOVE FOR THE WOMAN HE WANTS TO SPEND HIS LIFE WITH. That's what the ring means to me...it's a token of his devotion to me, period. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme The point, Fedup&givingup, was that I don't. Ok Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Fedup&givingup and for the final time....IT'S A SYMBOL OF THE MAN'S LOVE FOR THE WOMAN HE WANTS TO SPEND HIS LIFE WITH. If you want to measure a man's devotion by the latitude of his finances, that's your prerogative. Correct me if my judgement is wrong, but from what I read of your posts, you don't seem like someone who changes her mind, or seeks to have her opinion challenged. For others, perhaps who are reading this thread on the fence, I have some information: http://www.macha.f9.co.uk/diamond-intro.html http://www.guerrillafunk.com/thoughts/doc694.html http://www.ewtn.com/library/BUSINESS/ANTDEBRS.HTM Again, I'm not trying to push my opinion, only support it--there are some I know who won't even bother to read the above. I believe the diamond industry is terrorism in its purest sense. Those who value diamond jewelry as a sign of Love based on cost don't know the true cost of diamonds, contributing to the blood money behind them. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker If you want to measure a man's devotion by the latitude of his finances, that's your prerogative. It's ALL about the sacrifice he's willing to make. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker I believe the diamond industry is terrorism in its purest sense. Those who value diamond jewelry as a sign of Love based on cost don't know the true cost of diamonds, contributing to the blood money behind them. What kind of horse s*** is this?!? The diamond industry=terrorism ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! Now, that's a stretch! Thanks for the laugh, Dyer! Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Fedup&givingup What kind of horse s*** is this?!? The diamond industry=terrorism ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! Now, that's a stretch! Thanks for the laugh, Dyer! Case in point, you refute my claim five minutes after I made it. Either you deserve a world record in speed-reading, or you simply didn't read the information I provided. People are murdered, children are enslaved. There is no industry on Earth more unethical than the Cecil Rhodes' blood empire. The difference between my argument and yours, is that I have supported it. If you have a counterclaim, I would like to see some evidence, and not personal attacks. It's ALL about the sacrifice he's willing to make. An economic sacrifice nonetheless. What about the sacrifice of the eight year old boy who cut the diamond, because his mother was too old for prostitution? Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker Case in point, you refute my claim five minutes after I made it. Either you deserve a world record in speed-reading, or you simply didn't read the information I provided. People are murdered, children are enslaved. There is no industry on Earth more unethical than the Cecil Rhodes' blood empire. The difference between my argument and yours, is that I have supported it. If you have a counterclaim, I would like to see some evidence, and not personal attacks. An economic sacrifice nonetheless. What about the sacrifice of the eight year old boy who cut the diamond, because his mother was too old for prostitution? I read the first link you submitted, and I knew where it was headed. If you really think the diamond industry is the only one that constitutes unethical work measures, then you've got a thing or two to learn. The majority of the clothing industry runs the same way. You can boycott all you'd like, if it makes you feel better....run around bare a$$ed as a result. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Fedup&givingup If you really think the diamond industry is the only one that constitutes unethical work measures, then you've got a thing or two to learn. It's not 'unethical work measures'--it's a multibillion dollar cartel, complete with murder and slavery. Additionally, I refuse to operate on rhetoric. There needs to be something behind your opinion, especially if you're going to call mine a 'stretch' and horse s***'. I have actually read a substantial amount about the diamond industry, including primary firsthand accounts. If you really think that only "towelheads" and "darkies" are terrorists, then you've got a thing or two to learn. Link to post Share on other sites
Papillon Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I've been reading this thread, and I have to say I agree with Dyer 100%. It's amazing how you can be shocked by someone's true personality, when the penny drops.... Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Just thought I'd share this, which was cited in one of our letters. An excellent wife, who can find? For her worth is far above jewels. Proverbs 31:10; NASB Link to post Share on other sites
CurlyIam Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Ok, Dyer, you made your point. Now how about your taking your time, finding a girl, getting married, having a baby or two and than argue with Fed? Until then it's pure theory, and it is so easy to criticise and came hard upon someone without having lived the same experience. You're a smart young man, you should be able to have made the difference. I simply hate the time difference between our countries.... Way to go, Fed, you're my hero! Link to post Share on other sites
Papillon Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 The two of you will never find real love because you don't know what it's made of. Link to post Share on other sites
CurlyIam Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Now you're the one assuming to know either of us... Don't forget that over the net you may loose the "" in the posts. That and the fact that you don't know how good we're in bed . I should probably speak for myself so be a a darling and assume I did. Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by CurlyIam good we're in bed umm you can't use 'we're' in that phrase it should be 'how good we are in bed'. If you want to use 'we're then say 'we're both in bed' Link to post Share on other sites
CurlyIam Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Thanks, KAt, I'm always loosing the nuances in English... But I didn't alter the meaning of the whole post, right? Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Papillon I've been reading this thread, and I have to say I agree with Dyer 100%. It's amazing how you can be shocked by someone's true personality, when the penny drops, FedUp.... That's great, but I really don't care. FYI, it's not hardly about the money spent either. If they can't sacrifice a bit for that sake, then what do you expect them to be like when you live with them on a daily, regular basis? Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Papillon The two of you will never find real love because you don't know what it's made of. Uh, yes I do. I agree it's not in the rock that's upon my finger, but you miss the point. A symbol is a symbol, and it doesn't equate to love. It's there as a SYMBOL of a man's love for a woman. His actions prove his love. Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Fedup&givingup That's great, but I really don't care. FYI, it's not hardly about the money spent either. If they can't sacrifice a bit for that sake, then what do you expect them to be like when you live with them on a daily, regular basis? I have yet to see YOU talk of YOUR sacrifice. How selfish amd materialistic you are sounding. A Partnership of marriage is just that PARTNERSHIP. TWO people making it work, not a woman being waited on hand and foot by her husband and being paid to 'stay at home' Link to post Share on other sites
CurlyIam Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by befuddled11 How so? He's the one who was obnoxiously flapping his gums in public, b*tching to his friends about how much he spent on his ex wife's ring ($3500). Had he not divulged such stupid information, I'm sure this wouldn't even be an issue. As an aside, I always find threads like this entertaining. They come up from time to time on lots of message boards, ones of this nature...where there's always a few in the crowd who accuse the poster of being superficial and materialistic and having 'pathetic values.' I've come to some conclusions. It seems that the men who get so riled about posts like these do so because it galls them to think about having to spend so much money on a ring in the first place. Women who have never been married often take such offense, I think it's mostly because deep down, they're jealous that they're not the one engaged. The women who are or have been married, who take such great offense, are usually the ones who admittedly had/have very minimal engagement rings.....and deep down, though they'd never dare admit it, they're resentful that they got such a small diamond, etc. Of all that a wife does and gives in her marriage, over the years......being the one most responsible for running the household, ensuring housework is done, ensuring the bills are paid on time, cooking, cleaning (while often holding down a full time job)....carrying the babies for 9 back-breaking months -- having to contend with substantial weight gain during pregnancy, hemorrhoids, having to pee all the time, back pain, stretch marks....then having to endure delivery which sometimes results in an emergency C-Section.......being generally the one who stays home with the baby and STILL maintaining the household..while hubby works and has contact with adults all day but has the luxury of coming home to a clean house, clean baby and little responsibility before falling off to sleep in a nice clean bed (after a little lovin' of course)......damn rights she deserves a nice engagement ring! AMEN !!! There's your answer, Kat! Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by CurlyIam There's your answer, Kat! Well that doesn't apply here. I have never been married and I hope to one day, even found a man for when that time comes. We have spoken about 'the ring' for both of us. He knows what I would like and what I wouldn't. Essentially if he got me a yellow/rose gold ring, as an engagement ring, I would be dissapointed. Not because it wasn't 'right' but because he knows I am not a yellow/rose. However even if he got me a rose gold ring I would cherish it with all my heart. I mean damn, I just got asked by the man of my dreams to be his wife for the rest of our lives. So what if the initial ring wasn't what *I* wanted, I have nor eason to complain or bitch, because who cares what others think, or if it doesn't compare. NOTHING would compare to the love and bond I have. You can point fingers all you like, but just remember marriage used to actually be about love. Not anymore Link to post Share on other sites
CurlyIam Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Well, honey, thank Lord than for not exising an ex wife. How would you feel about this subject then? Because supposedely there was love and comittment and the rest. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Kat I have yet to see YOU talk of YOUR sacrifice. How selfish amd materialistic you are sounding. A Partnership of marriage is just that PARTNERSHIP. TWO people making it work, not a woman being waited on hand and foot by her husband and being paid to 'stay at home' HUH! That's hardly the case! Especially in today's world, where a woman has more demands bestowed upon her than ever. She is expected to have a golden career, AND assume all the tradtional roles of a woman/wife. I know what my roles and expectations are, and I fulfill them. I've been told by MANY that I sure know how to take care of a man, and I've been told by many how talented I am at what I do (i,e, cooking, cleaning, and staying organized). I have just about always worked, and my energy level is high. Paid to "stay at home?" That's about as degrading as it gets. NO man could pay ME what I'm worth. And, I have never even thought about it that way...that I was being "paid" or compensated...that's your analogy, and that equates to the an eye for an eye theory. I know what makes for a good wife...I just happen to married to someone that doesn't deserve me. The ring that I've got means nothing, period. At the time when he proposed to me and asked ME to be HIS wife, it was stunning. Again, it was a SYMBOL of how much I meant to him. I haven't only not worked outside the home for the past 8 months, and when I did...all that I did more than surpassed his efforts. So, for that part of this argument, pish tah. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Kat Well that doesn't apply here. I have never been married and I hope to one day, even found a man for when that time comes. We have spoken about 'the ring' for both of us. He knows what I would like and what I wouldn't. Essentially if he got me a yellow/rose gold ring, as an engagement ring, I would be dissapointed. Not because it wasn't 'right' but because he knows I am not a yellow/rose. However even if he got me a rose gold ring I would cherish it with all my heart. I mean damn, I just got asked by the man of my dreams to be his wife for the rest of our lives. So what if the initial ring wasn't what *I* wanted, I have nor eason to complain or bitch, because who cares what others think, or if it doesn't compare. NOTHING would compare to the love and bond I have. You can point fingers all you like, but just remember marriage used to actually be about love. Not anymore OK, well there you go. You have NOT been married, AND even more powerful is you know what kind of ring you want. THAT'S what this is all about! Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Fedup&givingup OK, well there you go. You have NOT been married, AND even more powerful is you know what kind of ring you want. THAT'S what this is all about! What does me not being married have anything to do with it? I know what kind of ring I would want, but if I don't get it I wouldn't make a big deal. Definately not belittle HIM Link to post Share on other sites
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