Bette_Davis_Eyes Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Someone asked in another thread: why would a married man stay if he didn’t plan to work on his marriage? I date a MM who had dday and his W wants to work on their M, but he’s not doing anything to save their M. He’s lied about ending seeing me. He won’t talk about the A and their problems. He won’t appear apologetic or recognize her hurt or his wrongdoing. He won’t go to marriage counseling. He hasn’t shown any effort or gratitude for being given a second chance. He WANTS to stay married, but for the kids and convenience and financial reasons, not because he loves her. He loves me and put forth every effort in making our relationship strong, but won’t put forth the same for his M, but gets mad if she brings up divorce. I know people would say its justification or excuse not reason, but if he’s not trying to make it right doesn’t that stand for something. I feel bad that I am the other half to deceiving this woman so, but am happy to know he cherish our relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 How old are his kids? Is he going to leave her when the kids leave? How do you know he isn't going to be that same man his wife is married to right now when he marries you? Do you want to be with him and have his kids? If so, why doesn't he love you enough to leave his now unhappy marriage and marry you and start a family? Why is he prolonging his, his wife and the kids misery by staying with his there? Link to post Share on other sites
Carrot2000 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I feel bad that I am the other half to deceiving this woman so, but am happy to know he cherish our relationship. This man is nothing short of cruel. He's not the prize you think he is. Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) If he did not love wife. If he truly loved you. He would be getting a divorce. He is lying to the two of you. There is a fool born every day. Ditto. Finances, kids, blah blah = bullshyt. I know many people who are in unhappy marriages and decide to make it work or opt the hell out. That's the right and sensible thing to do instead of wasting your life. I am sure that the so called cons of getting a divorce are not as high as the cons are of being imprisoned to a life you don't want and living your life in obligation:rolleyes: My aunt for example was married for 16 years and it wasn't working anymore....she tried but it just was not good enough...she had a young child but she got the helll out of it. Three years later she found her second husband and they got married and she's been happily married ever since living an amazing life with a man more suited for her, doing the things she dreams of. Now if she had sat around cheating and talking about finances and her young child and blah blah she might very well still be married to this man, wasting her life being unhappy. Being scared is normal, but when you are TRULY unhappy and when you have good self worth about you and want more for yourself and your family, you put an end to foolishness and move it along. I would do the same. Sometimes I wish my parents would have divorced years ago as staying for my sister and I has done nothing but help to eff us up. All they do is argue, we know my dad cheats, or they're distance and not affectionate towards each other which provides a HORRIBLE example to children for what a marriage is (kids are NOT DUMB, they know when something is a farce and when their parents are happy and love each other). My parent's unhappy marriage that has "lasted" but is so messed up has been responsible for my issues pertaining to commitment. I have less respect for my mom now, as being a woman myself, I feel like she has shown me that rolling over and playing dead is what family and marriage is about versus my aunt who I respect (and love her current relationship, 11 years, 2 kids and they STILL act like they're dating) for deciding it wasn't working and stepping out into the scary world to forge a life for herself instead of putting up with bull. Divorce does have its repercussions sure enough and needs to be handled with care and will probably affect kids no matter what, but ultimately is the responsible thing to do. Release this person to live their life and you yours and help your kids through it. Being scared of losing money, so called hurting kids, blah blah aren't viable reasons to me and come from a place of selfishness and fear versus responsibility or having "no choice" as people make it seem. Edited June 12, 2011 by MissBee Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 A woman on another forum actually expressed from her perspective EXACTLY what i mean about how staying in an unhappy marriage is some bull.... Minky: Indeed! Men who are that unhappy always have the option to leave and start again. I was in a healthy relationship for six years, which eventually fizzled out and ended amicably (we didn’t have children, so it was less complex than some breakups). I could have stayed there – it was comfortable, i was living with a man who was more like my best friend, there was very little physical stuff going on, but i was treated very well, had a nice house, plenty of emotional and financial security etc. There was nothing stopping me staying there in my comfy little nook and playing the field, getting my needs met elsewhere, moaning about ‘woe is me in a loveless relationship’. But i’m not an assclown and i chose to make the scariest decision of my life and walk away, into the unknown and start again. Best decision i ever made, by far, in retrospect, but i was absolutely terrified at the time. Having people around me asking ‘what the hell are you doing?!’ didn’t help either! People with integrity take responsibility for their actions. They do the right thing. Even if they have children, when the relationship ends, it is done with decency and minimal upheaval. These MMs and cheaters have absolutely no spine. Link to post Share on other sites
Woman In Blue Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I date a MM who had dday and his W wants to work on their M, but he’s not doing anything to save their M. He’s lied about ending seeing me. Of course he's lied about it - because it serves HIM. He won’t talk about the A and their problems. He won’t appear apologetic or recognize her hurt or his wrongdoing. He won’t go to marriage counseling. He hasn’t shown any effort or gratitude for being given a second chance. And you would know this....how? Do you live with them? Unless you live within that home, you really DON'T know what he's saying and doing. You don't, no matter much you think he's being honest about it. Do you really think he's going to TELL you that he did something to please her, or took her to dinner or picked her up a small gift to surprise her with in order to help her through the crap she's dealing with, due to his shi*tty behavior? Not gonna happen. You'll be the LAST to know. Even the dogcatcher will know before you do. He loves me and put forth every effort in making our relationship strong, but won’t put forth the same for his M, but gets mad if she brings up divorce. And again, I have to ask - and you know this....how? Because he told you that? He also told his wife he quit seeing you and we all know that ain't true. I feel bad that I am the other half to deceiving this woman so, but am happy to know he cherish our relationship. First of all, you don't feel 'bad' at all. You just think it sounds nice and it's the right thing to say. Words mean NOTHING. Actions mean everything. Secondly, you feel "cherished" because of his incredibly disgusting behavior towards his wife with the constant manipulaton, lying and gaslighting he's constantly doing - all because he he wants to STAY married to her? Knowing that he'll sink to virtually ANY low to stay married to her makes you feel cherished? What kind of an alternate universe am I living in? Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 WHY should he change or examine unless he receives some consequences for his actions? There is no motivation to change, be a better man, do the right thing by either you or his wife. It's too hard. And with both his BS and OW allowing him to return to the status quo and exploiting both of them, why would he do the hard work of changing himself? Unless you and she and/or preferably BOTH of you go NC and throw him out on his ear and announce it to the world, nah.....nothing is going to change. She may be numb right now. Betrayal can do that to you. I hope she finds a backbaone and bounces him out and then he can be yours on a full time basis and you can see, over time, how much he cherishes the women he commits to. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Someone asked in another thread: why would a married man stay if he didn’t plan to work on his marriage? Because he can continue to have two women, his wife and his OW to meet ALL his needs. I date a MM who had dday and his W wants to work on their M, but he’s not doing anything to save their M. So he tells you.. You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. He's just a very good liar to be able to still sneak off and see you and stay at home. He is telling you and his wife what you both want to hear. Do you think he IS NOT lying or omitting truths to you???? If you think he isn't lying to you, you're totally fooling yourself. IF he truly wanted out of his marriage he would have done so given the opportunity on D-Day. He chose to stay. And he chose to keep the A going. Sounds like a real prize....... He’s lied about ending seeing me. He won’t talk about the A and their problems. He won’t appear apologetic or recognize her hurt or his wrongdoing. He won’t go to marriage counseling. He hasn’t shown any effort or gratitude for being given a second chance. He WANTS to stay married, but for the kids and convenience and financial reasons, not because he loves her. He loves me and put forth every effort in making our relationship strong, but won’t put forth the same for his M, but gets mad if she brings up divorce. I know people would say its justification or excuse not reason, but if he’s not trying to make it right doesn’t that stand for something. I feel bad that I am the other half to deceiving this woman so, but am happy to know he cherish our relationship. He cherish's nothing!! He is a selfish man who wants to have his cake and eat it too. My dear, he is lying to you about what he tells his wife and stuff about his marriage... And you're eating it up. He's deceiving both you and his wife and I can't believe you don't see this. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 OP, why do you start threads like this if you are happy with the situation? Is it to honestly see how people feel or to get stuff going? If you are happy with the way he treats you and the way he treats his wife(your actions say you are just fine with it), then why post about it? I am curious what you are looking for. Link to post Share on other sites
NoMan's Land Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 OP, why do you start threads like this if you are happy with the situation? Is it to honestly see how people feel or to get stuff going? If you are happy with the way he treats you and the way he treats his wife(your actions say you are just fine with it), then why post about it? I am curious what you are looking for. Because her conscience is telling her she knows what she's doing is wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
TurboGirl Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Someone asked in another thread: why would a married man stay if he didn’t plan to work on his marriage? I date a MM who had dday and his W wants to work on their M, but he’s not doing anything to save their M. He’s lied about ending seeing me. He won’t talk about the A and their problems. He won’t appear apologetic or recognize her hurt or his wrongdoing. He won’t go to marriage counseling. He hasn’t shown any effort or gratitude for being given a second chance. He WANTS to stay married, but for the kids and convenience and financial reasons, not because he loves her. He loves me and put forth every effort in making our relationship strong, but won’t put forth the same for his M, but gets mad if she brings up divorce. I know people would say its justification or excuse not reason, but if he’s not trying to make it right doesn’t that stand for something. I feel bad that I am the other half to deceiving this woman so, but am happy to know he cherish our relationship. How do you know what he is telling his W? You don't live with them. He's probably telling her he is not seeing you and begging her forgiveness and jumping through all kinds of hoops at home. Sounds like he is lying to you big time and telling you whatever it he that he thinks will keep you happy, and in your nice little place as a side dish. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bette_Davis_Eyes Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 OP, why do you start threads like this if you are happy with the situation? Is it to honestly see how people feel or to get stuff going? If you are happy with the way he treats you and the way he treats his wife(your actions say you are just fine with it), then why post about it? I am curious what you are looking for. What do you mean by “threads like this”? If I wanted to “get stuff going” wouldn’t I have post in the infidelity forum? When did say I was happy with how he treats me or his wife? I posted this thread because I read several variants of the question in other thread responses. I read this on a BW’s blog: “there are only two types of wayward spouses to deal with: Type one is not really remorseful. They want to stay married to you for their own reasons: maybe financial, maybe help with child care, maybe you fit like a comfortable old shoe. But they really don’t want anything to change. This type one spouse probably will forget what they’ve done – in fact, they’d prefer to forget – if you don’t keep bringing it up. So they make it pretty uncomfortable for you to talk about the A. They’ll start a fight if you bring it up. Or they’ll storm out of the house “for some peace and quiet”. The Type one spouse is not in reconciliation with you. Type two spouses are very sorry for their actions. They will do anything, ANYTHING, to help you heal. The hurt in your eyes on D-Day cut into their heart like a knife. They will NEVER forget what they did, and talk or no talk they will wear the scarlet A on their soul forever.” MM is type one. Reading other threads, I don’t think people knew it’s possible. I never thought of it until I was in it. I wondered what people thought or OW that’s seen the same, as it is one of the things I’m trying to understand with the “how” of MM. It’s not malicious. As for the first thread, I thought it was odd and it peeved me some for everyone to point out the “foolishness” in the OW believing what the MM says, but never mention the “foolishness” of the wife who believes the same man. I don’t see the question as wrong. Guess I’m trying to understand and defend my relationship. Does that answer your question? Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 MM is type one. Reading other threads, I don’t think people knew it’s possible. I never thought of it until I was in it. I wondered what people thought or OW that’s seen the same, as it is one of the things I’m trying to understand with the “how” of MM. It’s not malicious. BDE, it definitely does happen. My guy said, when we split, that if he didn't have the balls to leave and start afresh with me (which was an ENORMOUS deal for him, really a massive source of upset/stress) he'd stay and 'work things out'. But he worked nothing out. He was even more distant than ever. He was like a ghost just moving from place to place. He knew it would never be 'okay' so he dug in and prepared himself for the long haul, in a very unorthodox, empty marriage. I would never have thought that possible, I couldn't have lived that way. I was stunned when we talked later about how each of our lives had changed. I thought it was tragic for both of them. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bette_Davis_Eyes Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I don’t know why I think MM is a “prize”, but I do. He’s not a good husband and he knows it, but I love him and think he is a good person who loves me too. The situation we’ve caused is just f’d up. It’s not something that I think is right, but its something that has happened and I’m trying to deal with it. Silly_Girl, thank you for that response. What did you think about MM staying? Did you believe that his M was empty? How long did he stay? Did they live together? Did you give him an ultimatum? I'm not familiar with story. I assume you two are together. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bette_Davis_Eyes Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 How old are his kids? 11yrs and 7yrs old Is he going to leave her when the kids leave? I don’t know. He talks about wanting to leave, but I’m under impression he wouldn’t. For any chance, she’d have to file. How do you know he isn't going to be that same man his wife is married to right now when he marries you? I’m not her. We don’t have their relationship. He’s not that man to me now, why would he be then. Do you want to be with him and have his kids? Yes…Maybe…Yes. If so, why doesn't he love you enough to leave his now unhappy marriage and marry you and start a family? It’s not that simply. Why is he prolonging his, his wife and the kids misery by staying with his there? I don’t think he gets it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bette_Davis_Eyes Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Thanxs for all thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 What do you mean by “threads like this”? If I wanted to “get stuff going” wouldn’t I have post in the infidelity forum? When did say I was happy with how he treats me or his wife? I posted this thread because I read several variants of the question in other thread responses. I read this on a BW’s blog: “there are only two types of wayward spouses to deal with: Type one is not really remorseful. They want to stay married to you for their own reasons: maybe financial, maybe help with child care, maybe you fit like a comfortable old shoe. But they really don’t want anything to change. This type one spouse probably will forget what they’ve done – in fact, they’d prefer to forget – if you don’t keep bringing it up. So they make it pretty uncomfortable for you to talk about the A. They’ll start a fight if you bring it up. Or they’ll storm out of the house “for some peace and quiet”. The Type one spouse is not in reconciliation with you. Type two spouses are very sorry for their actions. They will do anything, ANYTHING, to help you heal. The hurt in your eyes on D-Day cut into their heart like a knife. They will NEVER forget what they did, and talk or no talk they will wear the scarlet A on their soul forever.” MM is type one. Reading other threads, I don’t think people knew it’s possible. I never thought of it until I was in it. I wondered what people thought or OW that’s seen the same, as it is one of the things I’m trying to understand with the “how” of MM. It’s not malicious. As for the first thread, I thought it was odd and it peeved me some for everyone to point out the “foolishness” in the OW believing what the MM says, but never mention the “foolishness” of the wife who believes the same man. I don’t see the question as wrong. Guess I’m trying to understand and defend my relationship. Does that answer your question? No I don't think that you have to post in any particular forum to get stuff going. Happy with a situation is the implication since you are still in it watching him destroy another person. Link to post Share on other sites
spice4life Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 In response to your opening post, I would say that this guy values things and life style more than anything else. It doesn't sound like he has the capacity to see past his own wants and needs to see how unfair it is to hold two people in limbo like that. Until he can actually "see and feel" it from your perspective, you are shyte out of luck. This man's actions aren't really motivated by love, they are motivated by materialistic wants and needs. Good luck with that one, I hate to say. Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Happy with a situation is the implication since you are still in it watching him destroy another person. You know very well that bolded statement is not true. Many people stay in unhappy situation for whatever reason. Humility is a godly trait, you can apologize to the OP for jumping on her. OP, I stayed in my marriage for more than a dozen years even though my marriage was no longer a marriage in the traditional sense. Which in turn means my philandering husband (now xH) stayed in a marriage he was dissatisfied with. I am sure he told his OW(s) this and it was the truth. So why do people stay in unhappy marriages? I can only give you my reason. I re-defined what the marriage meant to me (after I found out he was cheating)-including what I expected from my H and what he could expect from me. When the parameters were drawn it was a lot easier to stay in the marriage. Of course, I eventually left him. Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 OP, I stayed in my marriage for more than a dozen years even though my marriage was no longer a marriage in the traditional sense. Which in turn means my philandering husband (now xH) stayed in a marriage he was dissatisfied with. I am sure he told his OW(s) this and it was the truth. Oh, my dearest TC you are re-writing history here a bit. I am not sure I agree with that. From what I know you're xH didn't want a D. You did. To me, this says he WAS satisfied in being M to you. Otherwise, he would have filed for D. That moronic xH of yours philandering had nothing to do with YOU or the M. TC, I think we would both agree that if you had not filed you would STILL be married. Cheating is more a symptom of a spouse with issues than anything else. I think many OW/OM make this erroneous assumption. JW Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Oh, my dearest TC you are re-writing history here a bit. I am not sure I agree with that. From what I know you're xH didn't want a D. You did. To me, this says he WAS satisfied in being M to you. Otherwise, he would have filed for D. That moronic xH of yours philandering had nothing to do with YOU or the M. TC, I think we would both agree that if you had not filed you would STILL be married. Cheating is more a symptom of a spouse with issues than anything else. I think many OW/OM make this erroneous assumption. JW Yes, you are right-he did not want the divorce. But he was always hoping that we will "re-kindle" something, while he sort-of accepted what I could offer in the re-defined relationship, he thought ( and still thinks) that if I had forgiven him we would have had a better marriage. Yes, if I didn't file I would still be married. That is exactly the point I was trying to make...people stay in marriages for different reasons-even if the marriage is nothing like how it should be, traditionally...to say that they don't is being purposely naive and ignorant. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 You know very well that bolded statement is not true. Many people stay in unhappy situation for whatever reason. Humility is a godly trait, you can apologize to the OP for jumping on her. OP, I stayed in my marriage for more than a dozen years even though my marriage was no longer a marriage in the traditional sense. Which in turn means my philandering husband (now xH) stayed in a marriage he was dissatisfied with. I am sure he told his OW(s) this and it was the truth. So why do people stay in unhappy marriages? I can only give you my reason. I re-defined what the marriage meant to me (after I found out he was cheating)-including what I expected from my H and what he could expect from me. When the parameters were drawn it was a lot easier to stay in the marriage. Of course, I eventually left him. :laugh:My laugh for the day. Thanks the day was started off a little rough, but you picked my spirit right up. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) He WANTS to stay married, but for the kids and convenience and financial reasons, not because he loves her. I'm sure there are couples who say married for reasons other than love. But, I don't buy that most marriages that have been touch by infidelity are only intact for the above reasons. However, if you only read here at LS, they seem to be the standard reasons a MM doesn't leave his wife. OK, so what if that is the truth. Fact is, for whatever reason, he is not leaving his wife. Let's take a look at how he treats the woman he has chosen to stay with. He lies to her. What does that tell you about him? If what he is telling you is true, why does she stay with him? Ok, let's say it is true. What does that tell you about the BW? Maybe she stays for the same reasons. Sounds like they have an agreement and no matter what you do, they will be together. For whatever reasons they have, they remain married and you continue to be the OW. What does that tell you about yourself? Edited June 13, 2011 by herenow Link to post Share on other sites
AuthenticBliss Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 A man that stays without reconciling but refuses to leave for the OW is either living inauthentically or stays because he wants both. I struggle to see how this could be a good partner for either woman. Link to post Share on other sites
TigerCub Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 OP, Spare yourself the questions. You could spend your entire life waiting on this guy and wondering what his real motives for staying in his M are. Like almost everyone said, it really doesn't matter because he's showing traits that are very questionable to begin with. I've said it once I'll say it a million times: Nobody is where they don't want to be! so the reasons don't matter if the end result is the same. I'm sorry that you have so much invested in this, and I'm sorry if you're hurting, but he doesn't really sound like someone that's worth waiting for. Link to post Share on other sites
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