MM who stay but not work on marriage

[herenow]

I agree with Anna and Silly_girl. I also think that when a dday hits, there is compassion for your BS regardless of your romantic feelings towards anyone else. There isn't a complete disregard of their feelings.

 

Most people do not enjoy inflicting pain on others. It becomes a struggle when your feelings are at a juxtaposition to someone elses.

 

So, if a MM is in love with an OW, he stays with a woman who he isn't in love with because he is compassionate.

 

If the MM is in love with the OW, wouldn't his compassion for the pain he is causing the OW have some effect on him?

 

I respect your opinion, but it makes no sense to me.

 

If a MM is in love with an OW, why would he have more compassion for the BW than the woman he loves?

[SoleMate]

OP, what were you expecting us to say? That MM stay while (claiming to be) not working on their marriage, because they so very much cherish the r/s with the OW, because of the special sexy connection, because OW is the perfect dream woman who completes him and the true choice of his heart? Were you expecting this thread to somehow provide a different result than the 50,000 previous OW/MM threads we have had on Loveshack?

 

Please just apply some simple logic to the verified/corroborated facts and you'll see that:

* He stays in the marriage because he wants to

* The wife lets him stay because he is begging for mercy and busting his butt to act like wonderful H (without actually being one)

* He stays in the affair because he wants to

* He is no prize for any woman and especially not you

[Mimolicious]

Someone asked in another thread: why would a married man stay if he didn’t plan to work on his marriage?

 

I date a MM who had dday and his W wants to work on their M, but he’s not doing anything to save their M. He’s lied about ending seeing me. He won’t talk about the A and their problems. He won’t appear apologetic or recognize her hurt or his wrongdoing. He won’t go to marriage counseling. He hasn’t shown any effort or gratitude for being given a second chance. He WANTS to stay married, but for the kids and convenience and financial reasons, not because he loves her. He loves me and put forth every effort in making our relationship strong, but won’t put forth the same for his M, but gets mad if she brings up divorce. I know people would say its justification or excuse not reason, but if he’s not trying to make it right doesn’t that stand for something. I feel bad that I am the other half to deceiving this woman so, but am happy to know he cherish our relationship.

 

I just gotta say WHOA!

 

What exactly is it that he is 'cherishing'? and what does that do for you? At the end, he can't even make a responsible adult-like decision. So Noble of him! Such a gentleman, but I guess he is because he's living up to his words to you. Unreal!

[26pointblue]

OP, what were you expecting us to say? That MM stay while (claiming to be) not working on their marriage, because they so very much cherish the r/s with the OW, because of the special sexy connection, because OW is the perfect dream woman who completes him and the true choice of his heart? Were you expecting this thread to somehow provide a different result than the 50,000 previous OW/MM threads we have had on Loveshack?

 

Please just apply some simple logic to the verified/corroborated facts and you'll see that:

* He stays in the marriage because he wants to

* The wife lets him stay because he is begging for mercy and busting his butt to act like wonderful H (without actually being one)

* He stays in the affair because he wants to

* He is no prize for any woman and especially not you

 

I like this answer a lot.

 

I think married people stay married because they want to. They cheat because they want to. And they lie to both BS and OW because it makes it much easier to both stay married and to cheat.

 

It's very simple when it comes down to it. But at the time it can seem oh so complicated.

[MissBee]

OP, what were you expecting us to say? That MM stay while (claiming to be) not working on their marriage, because they so very much cherish the r/s with the OW, because of the special sexy connection, because OW is the perfect dream woman who completes him and the true choice of his heart? Were you expecting this thread to somehow provide a different result than the 50,000 previous OW/MM threads we have had on Loveshack?

 

Please just apply some simple logic to the verified/corroborated facts and you'll see that:

* He stays in the marriage because he wants to

* The wife lets him stay because he is begging for mercy and busting his butt to act like wonderful H (without actually being one)

* He stays in the affair because he wants to

* He is no prize for any woman and especially not you

 

*Applause*

 

Nothing left to be said.

[Damia]

Better the devil you Know?

I stayed in my M with a repeat cheater I just kept redefining/lowering my expectations. Hoping ,thinking he would someday "see the light" and that we had an xlnt relationship. ha ha ....ha ha I was such a fool !!!

From my point of view anyway!

We didn't fight ,had reasonable communications,frequent sex.2 cool kids.

 

It wasn't until I left that I understood how low I had allowed myself to get.

From the outside looking in it amazes me how I could justify the lack of respect for so long.

The only important person was himself and his needs.

 

Have you thought about taking a few steps back for a time,taking away your care and attention .At present he has everything HE wants/needs ,his wife is willing to keep him for whatever reasons (that could be anything and you will NEVER know/understand what they are)and you are also happy to play the game.

 

MAKE HIM CHOOSE! .I wonder if you are worried he may not choose YOU ?

 

For what its worth having had this done to me I will NEVER be the OW

[whichwayisup]

*Applause*

 

Nothing left to be said.

 

My thoughts exactly..

 

And I'll add, MM LIE (sound like a broken record)!! A MM can tell his OW she is the LOVE OF HIS LIFE, HIS SOULMATE, HIS EVERYTHING.. But, when he doesn't divorce, even more so after a D-Day, he either 1)loves himself MORE or 2) during D-day the feelings he had for his wife, the ones he buried so he could have the A in first place, all come rushing back with intensity and he choses to work things out because he woke up, didn't realize how much his wife actually DOES love him. Or 3)He is just is lying completely to everybody as well as himself. he will do and say anything where the wind blows.

[Got it]

So, if a MM is in love with an OW, he stays with a woman who he isn't in love with because he is compassionate.

 

If the MM is in love with the OW, wouldn't his compassion for the pain he is causing the OW have some effect on him?

 

I respect your opinion, but it makes no sense to me.

 

If a MM is in love with an OW, why would he have more compassion for the BW than the woman he loves?

 

Why does staying mean that a MS cares more for the BS than the OP? It can/could be for the family, the lifestyle, the familarity, or the BS.

 

And I am not sure where I indicated that a black and white stance that compassion means action. A MP can feel compassion for another, either the OP, BS, or both, but that does not mean action one way or another.

 

Leaving a marriage or not leaving is not as simple as whether someone is in love with someone or not. Here and other sites LOVE to banter about that if a MS doesn't leave it is because of fog or coming to their senses and talks of them loving their BS. Unfortunately that is not always the case. The path of least resistance is usually the course most taken. And before someone's panties get in a wad, the same can be said for some who do leave, avoiding the consequences and not wanting to deal with the aftermath.

 

So again, I think the MP can feel and usually does feel compassion for the different parties involved but feelings does not necessarily mean action.

[Anna101]

Why does staying mean that a MS cares more for the BS than the OP? It can/could be for the family, the lifestyle, the familarity, or the BS.

 

And I am not sure where I indicated that a black and white stance that compassion means action. A MP can feel compassion for another, either the OP, BS, or both, but that does not mean action one way or another.

 

Leaving a marriage or not leaving is not as simple as whether someone is in love with someone or not. Here and other sites LOVE to banter about that if a MS doesn't leave it is because of fog or coming to their senses and talks of them loving their BS. Unfortunately that is not always the case. The path of least resistance is usually the course most taken. And before someone's panties get in a wad, the same can be said for some who do leave, avoiding the consequences and not wanting to deal with the aftermath.

 

So again, I think the MP can feel and usually does feel compassion for the different parties involved but feelings does not necessarily mean action.

 

 

Yep agreed. Being in love with someone is very very rarely enough to leave a well established marriage and life. On the other side, being out of love with someone is rarely enough to make someone leave too! Attachment is much stronger than 'in love' IMO.

 

A normal person, as most MP are, would feel compassion, guilt and love for both women.

[Silly_Girl]

Yep agreed. Being in love with someone is very very rarely enough to leave a well established marriage and life. On the other side, being out of love with someone is rarely enough to make someone leave too! Attachment is much stronger than 'in love' IMO.

 

A normal person, as most MP are, would feel compassion, guilt and love for both women.

 

It is SO much more than love. I find it hard to grasp that adults who've been in serious relationships and have some life experience think that leaving a marriage - and in particular for a new relationship - is as simple as loving them. It's a problem on my part. I can often see many sides to something if I choose... But I'm totally stumped on that one.

 

And yes, absolutely the MP naturally (in most cases) has feelings for both women. My experience was that my boyfriend felt more towards his wife in the 6 months or so prior to leaving than he had in several years prior. And it was the same for her, because it's such a charged atmosphere and raises so many fears and thoughts and triggers; guilt, anger and maybe regrets. It didn't last but I think it's something worth bearing in mind if you're planning to be with your MM - they could seem to become closer before things are truly over.

[jwi71]

Yep agreed. Being in love with someone is very very rarely enough to leave a well established marriage and life. On the other side, being out of love with someone is rarely enough to make someone leave too! Attachment is much stronger than 'in love' IMO.

 

I think this only applies if your "love" is already M to someone else.

 

Because when I was single, love was the ONLY reason I needed to be with someone!

[Got it]

I think this only applies if your "love" is already M to someone else.

 

Because when I was single, love was the ONLY reason I needed to be with someone!

 

No, I don't think it does. What it is implying is when your significant other is committed to something or someone else.

 

But I think the idea of "love" being the only reason is an immature and naive belief in being with someone. Many a BS will tell you that love isn't the only reason on why to stay with someone one, as will an OP. Love is only the tip of the iceberg.

[Owl]

Someone asked in another thread: why would a married man stay if he didn’t plan to work on his marriage?

 

I date a MM who had dday and his W wants to work on their M, but he’s not doing anything to save their M. He’s lied about ending seeing me. He won’t talk about the A and their problems. He won’t appear apologetic or recognize her hurt or his wrongdoing. He won’t go to marriage counseling. He hasn’t shown any effort or gratitude for being given a second chance. He WANTS to stay married, but for the kids and convenience and financial reasons, not because he loves her. He loves me and put forth every effort in making our relationship strong, but won’t put forth the same for his M, but gets mad if she brings up divorce. I know people would say its justification or excuse not reason, but if he’s not trying to make it right doesn’t that stand for something. I feel bad that I am the other half to deceiving this woman so, but am happy to know he cherish our relationship.

 

You know...I went back and re-read this post, and it got me to thinking.

 

There are indeed people who won't leave their marriage...but won't work on it either.

 

Re-reading this post, it just screamed at me..."SELFISH!!!!!!!!".

 

They stay, but won't work on anything...not out of any pure motive, not out of a desire to make things better for their kids, their dog...

 

They stay, because they're selfish, and expect the benefits of both worlds to continue for as long as they can make it last.

 

They stay, but don't work on the marriage and continue the affair because THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.

 

There's nothing noble about it, there's no sense of self-sacrifice so that others my benefit...they do it because they get benefits from doing it.

 

No round table nobility required.

[Silly_Girl]

You know...I went back and re-read this post, and it got me to thinking.

 

There are indeed people who won't leave their marriage...but won't work on it either.

 

Re-reading this post, it just screamed at me..."SELFISH!!!!!!!!".

 

They stay, but won't work on anything...not out of any pure motive, not out of a desire to make things better for their kids, their dog...

 

They stay, because they're selfish, and expect the benefits of both worlds to continue for as long as they can make it last.

 

They stay, but don't work on the marriage and continue the affair because THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.

 

There's nothing noble about it, there's no sense of self-sacrifice so that others my benefit...they do it because they get benefits from doing it.

 

No round table nobility required.

 

I don't disagree with you Owl, but although there's lots of things people do that I can see motivation for, yet disapprove of, I can see no real benefit to the married person in doing this. It would be a crappy existence, worse than pre-Dday. To me it's the most tragic ending of all.

[Owl]

I don't disagree with you Owl, but although there's lots of things people do that I can see motivation for, yet disapprove of, I can see no real benefit to the married person in doing this. It would be a crappy existence, worse than pre-Dday. To me it's the most tragic ending of all.

 

I'd say that how bad that existence is depends on a lot of factors.

 

If it is one of those marriages where there's a good amount of distance between the BW and WS...then it might not be all that bad if you think about it. They're just "existing" together...and avoiding conflict...so very little "issue". I don't think this happens often, but it does happen.

 

In some cases where this happens...if there's a lot of pressure to actually work on the marriage...then eventually a choice is made to either work on the marriage or end it.

 

That's one reason why I recommend to a BS to push for ACTION, to push for a decision...because I'd agree that surviving like that is no way to live.

 

But I've known people who were like I'd described...self-centered and selfish...only concerned with keeping the status quo so that all of their needs are met. IME, this is one of the most common affair situations..."cake eating"...for as long as they can make it last, postponing making change until they have no choice.

[Silly_Girl]

I'd say that how bad that existence is depends on a lot of factors.

 

If it is one of those marriages where there's a good amount of distance between the BW and WS...then it might not be all that bad if you think about it. They're just "existing" together...and avoiding conflict...so very little "issue". I don't think this happens often, but it does happen.

 

In some cases where this happens...if there's a lot of pressure to actually work on the marriage...then eventually a choice is made to either work on the marriage or end it.

 

That's one reason why I recommend to a BS to push for ACTION, to push for a decision...because I'd agree that surviving like that is no way to live.

 

But I've known people who were like I'd described...self-centered and selfish...only concerned with keeping the status quo so that all of their needs are met. IME, this is one of the most common affair situations..."cake eating"...for as long as they can make it last, postponing making change until they have no choice.

 

The 'distance' couple you describe, that's my bf and his wife. I wouldn't have believed it possible, but that's because I'm not an avoider and I would want to address things. But yes, it is 'surviving'. They called it 'getting through'. "We've got through X years and are still here...".

 

I'm just someone who'd rather die trying (and actually that's not far from the truth, looking in to my past a bit).

 

You'd view my boyfriend as a cake eater (and on some days he would too), making no change until there's no choice. Well, there was a choice (to let me go)... I remember he once said 'don't offer me more time honey, I'll just use it to postpone what I know I need to do. You wouldn't be helping me'. And he still didn't make the agreed timeline.

 

I know for a long time I wanted them to work it out. Genuinely, nothing disingenuous. Wanted good to come out of it. For any of the 3 people. So when he still stayed, they still co-existed, she knew everything, and everyone was miserable I could not get my brain around it. Then one day, like posters here often say, you don't need to make sense of it, you need to move on. And I did. I'm so glad he woke up eventually but it could easily have stayed like that for them for the next 40 years.

[Bette_Davis_Eyes]

I know its hard to believe, but I believe it. He relays the arguments/conversations and they are so real. Their life hasn’t changed meaning as a family they behave like always, but he’s not trying to make the A discovery any better. She is getting angrier over time I think because he’s not showing support or ownership. He’s way of dealing is gaslight and lie and don’t talk about it like it didn’t happen. He wants her to pretend like it didn’t. He says he may be an a$$ for it and his marriage might be destroyed, but its what I mean to him –everything. I never thought before reading posts but maybe he’s waiting for her to make the decision and leave and then he can say she’s the one who broke up their family.

 

When you have a marriage and kids, a home, extended families, combined finances and friends, etc. it is unfair to say he doesn’t leave so he doesn’t love you. As Silly_Girl post its been a crappy existence, worse than pre-Dday for him at home and a rocky road for us.But I agree it is his decision to stay. If I didn’t believe and trust in him I wouldn’t be willing to stand by his side. He is in a hard place and I believe he is honorable although I don’t fully understand. It seems selfish I know. But when I think about all I’ve read about MM throwing OW under the bus and begging his W for forgiveness on dday, proving just how little the OW meant and MM didn’t and wouldn’t do it me how can I truly believe that when he’s put it all on the line knowing the consequence is very real.

[Owl]

I know its hard to believe, but I believe it.

 

But when I think about all I’ve read about MM throwing OW under the bus and begging his W for forgiveness on dday, proving just how little the OW meant and MM didn’t and wouldn’t do it me how can I truly believe that when he’s put it all on the line knowing the consequence is very real.

 

It's simple for me to believe he COULD throw you under a bus.

 

It's precisely what he's done to his wife.

 

If he's willing to treat her the way that he is...there's nothing that prevents him from potentially doing the same to you (or anyone else) later.

 

I could be wrong. I'm not saying he will do so...I'm saying that there's nothing mystical protecting you and your relationship that makes it impossible.

 

I've no doubt that his wife felt as safe with him at some point in their relationship as well....look what that got her.

 

From the outside looking in, I don't have the same perspective you do. I see the situation (given the very limited information I've seen here, coupled with my life experience and all that I've learned) much differently than you do.

 

Regardless...I hope it turns out the best possible way it can for you, for him, for her, and for the kids.

[BB07]

I know its hard to believe, but I believe it. He relays the arguments/conversations and they are so real. Their life hasn’t changed meaning as a family they behave like always, but he’s not trying to make the A discovery any better. She is getting angrier over time I think because he’s not showing support or ownership. He’s way of dealing is gaslight and lie and don’t talk about it like it didn’t happen. He wants her to pretend like it didn’t. He says he may be an a$$ for it and his marriage might be destroyed, but its what I mean to him –everything. I never thought before reading posts but maybe he’s waiting for her to make the decision and leave and then he can say she’s the one who broke up their family.

 

BDE if he is wanting her to make the decision for him, that is passive aggressive at it's best and it's not an attractive trait as the same tactics will be used on you at some point in your relationship as it's the way he deals with conflicts. Please read up on it as it's not a minor personality problem, it causes the partner untold amounts of grief. Seriously.......don't you want a man who is so ball-less??? IMO he is an ass and I'm qualified to say so cause I've known more than a few.

 

When you have a marriage and kids, a home, extended families, combined finances and friends, etc. it is unfair to say he doesn’t leave so he doesn’t love you. As Silly_Girl post its been a crappy existence, worse than pre-Dday for him at home and a rocky road for us.But I agree it is his decision to stay. If I didn’t believe and trust in him I wouldn’t be willing to stand by his side. He is in a hard place and I believe he is honorable although I don’t fully understand. It seems selfish I know. But when I think about all I’ve read about MM throwing OW under the bus and begging his W for forgiveness on dday, proving just how little the OW meant and MM didn’t and wouldn’t do it me how can I truly believe that when he’s put it all on the line knowing the consequence is very real.

 

Also the reasons he stays shouldn't be given such significance, HE STAYS and that is what is significant.

 

 

PS...........I used to think my xmm was the most honorable man I knew......Which I now know was the joke of the century.

[bentnotbroken]

I know its hard to believe, but I believe it. He relays the arguments/conversations and they are so real. Their life hasn’t changed meaning as a family they behave like always, but he’s not trying to make the A discovery any better. She is getting angrier over time I think because he’s not showing support or ownership. He’s way of dealing is gaslight and lie and don’t talk about it like it didn’t happen. He wants her to pretend like it didn’t. He says he may be an a$$ for it and his marriage might be destroyed, but its what I mean to him –everything. I never thought before reading posts but maybe he’s waiting for her to make the decision and leave and then he can say she’s the one who broke up their family.

 

When you have a marriage and kids, a home, extended families, combined finances and friends, etc. it is unfair to say he doesn’t leave so he doesn’t love you. As Silly_Girl post its been a crappy existence, worse than pre-Dday for him at home and a rocky road for us.But I agree it is his decision to stay. If I didn’t believe and trust in him I wouldn’t be willing to stand by his side. He is in a hard place and I believe he is honorable although I don’t fully understand. It seems selfish I know. But when I think about all I’ve read about MM throwing OW under the bus and begging his W for forgiveness on dday, proving just how little the OW meant and MM didn’t and wouldn’t do it me how can I truly believe that when he’s put it all on the line knowing the consequence is very real.

 

:eek:The first bold ed statement completely contradicts the definition of honor. There is absolutely nothing honorable in this person. He cheats, lies to keep her in place, and treats her like crap while refusing to accept ownership in any of his actions. He is worse than a coward and lower than some creatures considered single celled organisms.

[Got it]

I don't disagree with you Owl, but although there's lots of things people do that I can see motivation for, yet disapprove of, I can see no real benefit to the married person in doing this. It would be a crappy existence, worse than pre-Dday. To me it's the most tragic ending of all.

 

I think it does depend on the the WS and their level of compassion. I do agree that I think, as Owl said, it is selfish. It depends on the dynamics of all relationships but all three parties have power to change the power struggle. It just takes one of them to do it.