silktricks Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 "ignore" is a really great function Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Harris Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 So now you live in a life without integrity, no sence of duty to your family, disloyalty to your promises, no courage and most of all no honour, because people who screw somebody outside of their marriage, have no honour. Pretty much sums it up. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 For some it might be a renewed intimacy and strength in a M. For others the courage to leave. Add to that: a happy home life for the kids and better life chances for them closer family ties and reintegration into the extended family waking up every morning glad to be alive instead of suffused with dread renewed interest and productivity at work a burgeoning, blooming social life true intimacy and equal partnership growing love and thriving passion new interests, hobbies and activities a sense of control over one's own life and destiny getting colour back into one's life a healthier lifestyle and a more youthful outlook discovering aspects of oneself one never knew were there learning to live authentically embracing honesty, transparency, and sharing respect and pride a sense of style and an appreciation of beauty genuine happiness ... and you've got some of the things my H lists to friends. Link to post Share on other sites
reboot Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 People who rant about others having the same "narrow" opinion on infidelity are the ones who are narrow minded in their own view. Do you have the slightest clue what my opinion on infidelity is? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Harris Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Do you have the slightest clue what my opinion on infidelity is? He wouldn't comment to you if he didn't know what your take on it was. Link to post Share on other sites
crazycatlady Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 For some it might be a renewed intimacy and strength in a M. For others the courage to leave. For me, in my new post A and post M life, here are some of the good things that happened. A kind of hindsight for what looks like making a mess of your life, but that actually brings something better. I learnt that to live with the heart and the soul is not a bad thing, even if it goes against the culture. I learnt to dance. I was too intimidated by the world/being me before. That to live with honesty is more important than trying to protect others from what creeps into your heart. If everyone tells you you are insane, think about that, but don't freak out. Question yourself, but not so much you lose a handle. That mostly your intuition will tell you if you are dealing with a player, a narcissist, a co-dependant, a passive aggressive, or a real lover. And fear can shout right over the top of intuition if you let it. That being let go of is not the same as being abandoned. The latter is a state of mind. That the fat lady sings many times only to come back on stage. Life is fluid and not made of watersheds except in death. That faith goes on and takes new forms. That love is beautiful and on occasion people involved in infidelity reach out for that because they don't know how to live. That people who judge infidelity as a wholesale evil probably elevate loyalty above other virtues. I think loyalty is highly important, but sometimes the things we tie ourselves to were not right for us, and there is a hardship in realising this. Like making a promise you should never have made. Better to realise you should not have promised, than to continue the promise once you realise. I feel for people on all sides, and realise for many an A is a wake up call and they smell the roses in the M. But this is what I have learnt for me. I guess I couldn't stay away yet I am a sum of my life experiences. Yes, some of those experiences have been rough. But I am a sum of them. Disclosure - I absolutely hate the survivor mentality. I do not subscribe to it, I had in the past, but to me it gave the things that happened way to much power over me. Screw it. Its up to me to take my past and forge it into the metal of my being for who I am now. So yes, the A has been a good thing. The pain, the hurt, the dismay. Its been good because I am a far stronger woman now. I am a better wife in many ways - though I don't think I was a bad wife then - and his affair had nothing to do with how I was as a wife. I understand my husband far better now, my eyes are open, and I see - and accept - that he has an evil side to him, that he simply isn't just selfish. What is interesting now is watching him try and figure out how to handle that part of him. I discovered that I'm insecure sometimes and that's something I am learning to fight and deal with. And overcoming that is improving me. I'm a far better worker then I would have been otherwise, both confident and compassionate in ways I would not have been unless I hadn't been faced having to look at myself that way. Would I have preferred to have reached this growth without the pain of his A? HELL YES I would have. I do not think it would have happened. Trauma is often the precursor to great or renewed growth. I wish it weren't so, but for me (and I suspect a great many others) its the stimulous needed to actually look deep inside and see things that were previously ignored. So as with all negative things that have happened to me in life, I am who I am in part because of them. They do not define me, but they do refine me. Because I am the ultimate forger of my own life and destiny . And yes it was delayed due to his lying to me, however, I also knew it happened, deep in side I knew, and I didn't press until I couldn't deny it any longer. Complacency is a very strong mind set. Link to post Share on other sites
thomasb Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 So yes, the A has been a good thing. The pain, the hurt, the dismay. Its QUOTE] I rather think that I am the person I am today, not because of the pain I caused my wife and my children but despite it! The hardest thing in my life was the death of our oldest son at 23yrs. I dare anybody to tell me that his death had one damned good thing to it! I didn't become anything because it happened. Just bled all over. Well, what I did having an affair damn near killed my wife and my marriage. And anyone here who says their affair had one thing good about it is justifying their own crappy, deviousness! We all had the choice to leave first and not cause pain all around. I really wish people would just man the hell up. I see it more and more every day. This it isn't my fault. My mommy, daddy, husband, WTFE! You did it, said it, bought it! Just you. Not your spouse parent... whatever. Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 WW, so much good advice here! I think for you, the affair made you realize what was so obvious in so many posts: You did not love your husband enough. Maybe, never did. Perhaps, as you go forward and try to live a more authentic life, the question to be examined is not why your affair brought good things to your life NOW, but why you married and stayed so long with a man you did not love THEN. It is only in introspecting our choices, going all the way back to the beginning, can we gain the strength to move on without making them over and over again. I think you have a lot of work to do. You need to go back to the beginning. Get busy, please. Link to post Share on other sites
nyrias Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Great...why not start a thread on the subject of cause and effect in infidelity so that those with the same pseudologic/empiricist bend can participate with you? This isn't the topic of this thread. How is it not? The thread is about the "good" (or lack of) coming out of a A, one possible consequence. In fact, the thread should be more precise and examine the "good" to the BS, the "good" to the WS, and the "good" to other less involved, if there is any. I am sure what is "good" for the BS is different than what is "good" for the WS. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I'm not gonna play, Nyrias. Perhaps someone else will want to discuss that with you. Link to post Share on other sites
nyrias Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 You did not love your husband enough. Maybe, never did. Perhaps, as you go forward and try to live a more authentic life, the question to be examined is not why your affair brought good things to your life NOW, but why you married and stayed so long with a man you did not love THEN. Is it the norm that one would ONLY stay with a spouse whom they love? I can think of many reasons. Economics, status, children, a fear of change ..... Link to post Share on other sites
nyrias Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I think a lot of people who cheat were NEVER honorable to begin with. It just took them a while to get low enough to cheat. The person you responded to sounded very spacey, like he or she wasn't all there. I think a lot of cheaters are just little selfish babies who never grew up. They are adults only on the outside. Then they hit a tough spot in their life or marriage and look for a thrill to ease the pain rather than fixing whatever is wrong. Why do they pick cheating as their way to ease the pain? Most likely because they're lazy and it's pretty easy to just spread your legs or unzip your fly and rub one out, using another person as your masturbation aid. I don't see why "selfish" has to be correlated with not growing up. It is perfectly common to have calculated adults who are also selfish. I also don't see hitting a tough spot has anything to do with As. If they are selfish, they would want MORE even when they are in a good marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Loni Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Please tell me how a BS will experience trauma if he/she falsely believes that everything is fine? It does not make any logical sense. Actually it does make sense. Most people in affairs check out of the marriage, especially early on making their spouses think WTF? There are all sorts of little nuances that wives especially tune into and just can't put their finger on. The spidey sense gets turned on and that creates friction in the marriage. Affairs do hurt spouses and even though I did not give it much though I do acknowledge it in an objective way. When my husband's ex wife found out about our affair she wrote him a very long letter with her aha moments as in "So this is why on XWZ date you got mad at me for wanting to go with you to grocery store" or "The company parties no longer include spouses" or "this is why you insisted on driving your self to the airport for your last business trip (for 2 weeks when I could have taken you and saved the parking fee) and then conveniently lost the parking receipt which you supposedly paid for in cash" and the list went on. She was able to pinpoint pretty accurately when our affair started although it was several years before she built up the courage to find out. Any affair will eventually be found out if it goes on long enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Author wheelwright Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 Add to that: a happy home life for the kids and better life chances for them closer family ties and reintegration into the extended family waking up every morning glad to be alive instead of suffused with dread renewed interest and productivity at work a burgeoning, blooming social life true intimacy and equal partnership growing love and thriving passion new interests, hobbies and activities a sense of control over one's own life and destiny getting colour back into one's life a healthier lifestyle and a more youthful outlook discovering aspects of oneself one never knew were there learning to live authentically embracing honesty, transparency, and sharing respect and pride a sense of style and an appreciation of beauty genuine happiness ... and you've got some of the things my H lists to friends. There is so much in this list that speaks to me in my time of transition. That is what is happening to me right now. There is no 'get out of jail free' card for me in this. In removing myself from my M, and in falling in love with another I have lost much that is valued in my culture. I have lost money Career took a big break I will lose my house but not a roof over my head My integrity in the eyes of some observers is compromised I have made relations with xH more difficult but more honest. But what I gain is still greater. Link to post Share on other sites
Author wheelwright Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 I am a sum of my life experiences. Yes, some of those experiences have been rough. But I am a sum of them. Disclosure - I absolutely hate the survivor mentality. I do not subscribe to it, I had in the past, but to me it gave the things that happened way to much power over me. Screw it. Its up to me to take my past and forge it into the metal of my being for who I am now. So yes, the A has been a good thing. The pain, the hurt, the dismay. Its been good because I am a far stronger woman now. I am a better wife in many ways - though I don't think I was a bad wife then - and his affair had nothing to do with how I was as a wife. I understand my husband far better now, my eyes are open, and I see - and accept - that he has an evil side to him, that he simply isn't just selfish. What is interesting now is watching him try and figure out how to handle that part of him. I discovered that I'm insecure sometimes and that's something I am learning to fight and deal with. And overcoming that is improving me. I'm a far better worker then I would have been otherwise, both confident and compassionate in ways I would not have been unless I hadn't been faced having to look at myself that way. Would I have preferred to have reached this growth without the pain of his A? HELL YES I would have. I do not think it would have happened. Trauma is often the precursor to great or renewed growth. I wish it weren't so, but for me (and I suspect a great many others) its the stimulous needed to actually look deep inside and see things that were previously ignored. So as with all negative things that have happened to me in life, I am who I am in part because of them. They do not define me, but they do refine me. Because I am the ultimate forger of my own life and destiny . And yes it was delayed due to his lying to me, however, I also knew it happened, deep in side I knew, and I didn't press until I couldn't deny it any longer. Complacency is a very strong mind set. I take heart from this post CCL, because I too (on a different side of things) found an A life changing at a deep level. That is something quite big to work through. Link to post Share on other sites
Author wheelwright Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 So now you live in a life without integrity, no sence of duty to your family, disloyalty to your promises, no courage and most of all no honour, because people who screw somebody outside of their marriage, have no honour. Which promises? Which duty? To be what others expect or need? To bury my own spirit in a culturally prescribed honour? There is no honour in hiding unhappiness in a M, or being ignored when you speak about it. There is always honour in love, even if in an A. It is tremendously disappointing to me that I found a form of love in this hurtful and ultimately divisive way. Link to post Share on other sites
Author wheelwright Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 WW, have you considered that it might not be your H's perception of the problem and issues that caused them that are skewed, but your own? Have you considered that it's possible that your viewpoints are different because mentally you may be rationalizing/trying to find the "good" in what you did, when the pain and "bad" are so evident? That you're trying to find the "good" outcome of all of this because if you don't, that in some fashion validates the idea that you were "bad" or "wrong" for what you did? I've seen this kind of mental judo in a lot of WS's who try to mentally avoid taking true responsibility for their actions and the damage caused by them...and honestly, your posts seem to fall right in that line. Just my opinion...and clearly not even worth the pixels that displayed it. Owl, I have considered all this in the two years since DDay. There is nothing more mind bending than trying to turn someone else's views into your own, when you do not feel them in your sense of self. The self that is the core and integrity of you. By saying I perceive good from the A, I am not saying I do not take responsibility. Hopefully we all know deep down we could be wrong. I have questioned a lot on this issue which you raise. But the soul pipes up until you are the right path. Mine is not with H. And that is not because of the A. I don't know what all that mentally ill stuff is about. Anyone who espouses a viewpoint outside of certain expected norms may be regarded 'mad'. Equally, someone who is split and inconsistent may appear disconcerting. I maintain the former problem, whereas I have resolved the latter. It has been painful. Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Is it the norm that one would ONLY stay with a spouse whom they love? I can think of many reasons. Economics, status, children, a fear of change ..... Not for this poster. Now for WW any longer either, apparently. Link to post Share on other sites
OldOnTheInside Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 You're essentially proposing strength through adversity yes? It isn't exactly a new concept. But I would concur that certain people may benefit in some aspects, from an affair. Of course, many suffer the polar opposite reaction and end up with absolutely nothing. So it is hardly the most reliable learning experience. Although the million dollar question that needs to be raised is why it took an affair, specifically, to instigate many of these concepts that you have thought about, rather than a less...chaotic action. What I find interesting is that you brought up abandonment issues involving your father and step-father (that was you right?) in a previous thread. Obviously, that is no justification for your actions, but have you considered it to be a contributing factor? More importantly, do you intend on resolving the skeletons in your closet before involving others? And how? There is always honour in love, even if in an A. You undeniably hold "love" in high esteem. But how do you personally define a metaphysical concept like love WW? Link to post Share on other sites
rafallus Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 There is always honour in love, even if in an A. Sounds unbelievably pompous. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 There is no honour in hiding unhappiness in a M... About this, I completely agree. And yet, isn't this exactly what is happening, when one engages in an affair and hides it from one's spouse? It seems to me that, on the balance, this dishonor would significantly poison any "honor of love" to be found in an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 There is always honour in love, even if in an A. It is tremendously disappointing to me that I found a form of love in this hurtful and ultimately divisive way. The love you shared with your OM feels profound to you, and worth all the pain (OTHER people's pain, I have to mention!). WW--why do you think you have only experienced the love you crave in an affair situation? What has stopped you from creating a healthy romantic relationship your entire adult life? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Love is not something so elusive that we need to cling to it at all costs. Love is in abundance, everywhere, free for the taking. We needn't ever sacrifice our honor to experience love. So, why do it? Link to post Share on other sites
Glinda Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Love is not something so elusive that we need to cling to it at all costs. Love is in abundance, everywhere, free for the taking. We needn't ever sacrifice our honor to experience love. So, why do it?Exactly! The only "good thing" I can see coming out of an A is the realization that a most cowardly, selfish and dishonorable act needn't have occurred at all. Link to post Share on other sites
OldOnTheInside Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 WW--why do you think you have only experienced the love you crave in an affair situation? She has already suggested that she has...issues. It would be beneficial for her to find the help and care that she needs. Perhaps that could be a "good thing". Link to post Share on other sites
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