Madness

[TigerCub]

*Applause*

 

My sentiments exactly....CC pisses me off more because she so passively accepts it and I don't judge her either but from being in a similar situation it sickens me to see someone else go through it with rose-tinted glasses, blinders and a full armor of delusion. She takes little responsibility either saying well HE seems sincere...why is HE doing it...if she figures out HIS motive then things would be better...blah blah...everything is about what HE does/doesn't do/wants and that is exactly why as you said, he continues...as this woman will allow you to do ANYTHING! So if you have a free pass to Disney Land...why not???

 

I relate to much once being there and it sickens me how I too made everything about him and what HE wanted or didn't want and wasn't going to do....releasing myself from all responsibility. I didn't commandeer my own self at all and will NEVER do that again.

 

Thanks MissBee

 

I totally agree with the part in bold.

 

I think that's why I get protective of girls like CC and I want them to see the truth - because I've been there and although I'm aware that not all stories end up the same - I just regret that I let the A experience drag out as long as it did - it truly was a huge mistake and I'd hate for someone else to waste their time, as their self esteem takes one hit after the other, while waiting for what most likely will never be. While waiting for a fraud to turn into a real prince.

[donnamaybe]

We've all heard the bullsh*t excuse used by married men - ad nauseum - about how they can't leave because "they don't want to be a weekend father," and "they don't want another man raising their kids," and blah blah blah. They all read from the same married man manual and the kid stuff is the usual self-serving drivel they all use to stay married and look like a martyr to their OW.

 

But THIS guy has ADULT children and he's STILL using the kid excuse because he wants to stay married? And that really IS the bottom line. He just wants to stay married.

 

Period.

 

Why are you wasting your breath on this loser? Hell, I wouldn't have purchased a tin can and a string to talk to this guy, much less a cheap cell phone to talk to him.

Totally agree with every word in this post.

[Owl]

So...let's just try to get down to it.

 

CC...what is it that you want to happen from all of this? What is your goal?

 

And...are honestly willing to put forth any true effort...to take real action...to obtain your goal?

 

Are you hoping to use LS to help you figure out how to get to your goal? Or are you hoping to simply find agreement with your assessment here on LS?

 

What, specifically, can the posters here on LS do for you? What "support" are you hoping for us to give you?

 

Insight on what he's doing, and why?

 

Support to help you resolve this situation?

 

What do you want?

[MissBee]

Thanks MissBee

 

I totally agree with the part in bold.

 

I think that's why I get protective of girls like CC and I want them to see the truth - because I've been there and although I'm aware that not all stories end up the same - I just regret that I let the A experience drag out as long as it did - it truly was a huge mistake and I'd hate for someone else to waste their time, as their self esteem takes one hit after the other, while waiting for what most likely will never be. While waiting for a fraud to turn into a real prince.

 

My sentiments exactly!

 

I think it comes down to trying to make yourself an exception to the rule....

 

It is such a waste of time hoping, praying, convincing yourself that although these situations are inherently flawed and as a general rule, DON'T work out....maybe you'll be one of the lucky few.

 

Like why? Is it really that serious? That this man is SO great and amazing that instead of finding someone else you'll endure some ridiculous scenario based on a minuscule CHANCE that it MAY work out...

 

Something is wrong with that. Just like when I broke up with my ex and spent so much time wishing us back together and hoping we would get back together and giving him chances...at the time I swore only he could make me happy DELUSIONAL! Now, I realize I was not even inlove with HIM, I was inlove with the idea of a relationship and those feelings but now that it is all under the bridge, I realize that I didn't really even like him as a person yet I would have cut off my arm to be with him at one time.

 

Now I know that I need to: 1. Keep my eyes and ears open in all potential relationships 2. Take things slow and be conscientious about who I commit myself to 3. Have my boundaries and deal breakers FIRMLY in place and don't be afraid to tell a man bye if he is overstepping them and most importantly: 4. NO MAN IS MY LAST CHANCE and NO MAN IS THAT GREAT FOR ME TO ACCEPT LESS THAN or WAIT for an indefinite amount of time in limbo land, banking on a promise check.

 

 

If I need to be waiting, hoping or am feeling like I can't live without you so I need to put MYSELF in precarious positions....then that is a situation that needs to be reassessed. I think a lot of dysfunctional relationships where people are whittling away at their self worth are glamorized as "true love", when in fact it is "true dysfunction" and the whole "love is pain"...no . I bought into that for a long time and thought I should take emotional hurt, embarrassment, anxiety, confusion, stress etc because "Love is pain"...the more it hurt, the stronger it was...how very wrong! That's not what it is and I have been blessed to witness 2 relationships in my life that I admire (my brother and his fiance and my aunt and uncle) and none of that drama and bull crap factored in and I got to see a TRUE picture of what real love that ENHANCES your life looks like...and not "addicted love" that causes temporary happiness, built upon fleeting romance but is deeply dysfunctional and insecure.

Edited June 15, 2011 by MissBee

[MissBee]

I'm confused. This ex you are talking about, was he married? Was he your MM?

 

No, he was not married.

 

I've been the other woman to a man with a longterm gf and a child, a few years back, but this ex is not the same person. Married or not married, the lessons still stand with regards to dating any kind of unavailable man or suffering in less-than relationships plagued by confusion, uncertainty, power struggles etc....and much of the same delusions that go on in affairs go on in "regular relationships" and regular break ups as well.

[Silly_Girl]

No, he was not married.

 

I've been the other woman to a man with a longterm gf and a child, a few years back, but this ex is not the same person. Married or not married, the lessons still stand with regards to dating any kind of unavailable man or suffering in less-than relationships plagued by confusion, uncertainty, power struggles etc....and much of the same delusions that go on in affairs go on in "regular relationships" and regular break ups as well.

 

I think too many people see the key to happiness as having a romantic relationship. And not even necessarily a good one! Just the existence of one can be enough

 

We have to learn what makes us happy, how to be happy, how to be independent and confident and self-reliant and at peace with our own company. I think after that there is the headroom for sound decisions and valuable thoughts. (Regardless of one's personal opinion as to the 'sound'-ness!)

 

We're each responsible for our own happiness. When we've cracked that we can have a positive influence in others lives.

 

A lot of the issues that come up repeatedly here are more to do with folk reluctantly accepting less than they planned to (or ever imagined doing), than anything else. The same dynamic can come about with a single guy, it just might not be so stark and might take time to come to the fore.

[MissBee]

I think too many people see the key to happiness as having a romantic relationship. And not even necessarily a good one! Just the existence of one can be enough

We have to learn what makes us happy, how to be happy, how to be independent and confident and self-reliant and at peace with our own company. I think after that there is the headroom for sound decisions and valuable thoughts. (Regardless of one's personal opinion as to the 'sound'-ness!)

 

We're each responsible for our own happiness. When we've cracked that we can have a positive influence in others lives.

 

A lot of the issues that come up repeatedly here are more to do with folk reluctantly accepting less than they planned to (or ever imagined doing), than anything else. The same dynamic can come about with a single guy, it just might not be so stark and might take time to come to the fore.

 

Giiirl...you're telling me! I so know from experience as well as see it all the time in real life and in the forums.

 

Beautifully said

 

Most stories when you strip away the "unique facts" boil down to wanting romance and love so much so that you will endure anything for it. Whether it is that married man you've convinced yourself so happens to be your soulmate, that guy with a gf and a child, that guy who calls you all the time but never actually takes you out, that guy who only comes over for sex, that guy who you've been seeing for months but have no clue if you're his gf or not, that guy who you've been with for 10 years who ignores the marriage hints, that guy who only gives you backhanded compliments and disrespects you on the sly, that guy who bounces in and out of your life at will in an on and off scenario....the list goes on.

 

Dubious relationships come in ALL forms and permutations but they're ALL essentially THE SAME! I don't care how charming, how cute, what unique connection you have....usually when you take it all away the bare bones is that you're in it because of that need to be loved no matter the cost and self-delusion is a hell of a drug that I have taken all the while articulating beautifully why nothing was wrong with it The choices you make when you've learned to make your own happiness are very different and have an overall different feel and tone to them and also how they affect other people is different than the ones you make out of skewed ideas about love, broken self worth, latent desperation etc.

[26pointblue]

There's a huge difference between the single guy who is emotionally unavailable because he's a jerk and the good guy who is physically unavailable at times because he's married.

 

Then you have the guys who are both jerks and married, and it does seem like there are quite a few OW on LS who have been unfortunate enough to have MM like that.

 

Yeah but the question is, who would want to be with a good guy who's physically unavailable at times because he's married?? Can't we as women do better than that?!

 

Your posts baffle me Persephone, it's like you make excuses for MMs. In that case you are the same as the wives I was just talking about in another thread, who make excuses for their husband's cheating & blame it all on the OW. Except you blame it all on the fact that he's married. That's plain illogical if you ask me. He has a choice in whether he's married or not, & if not married he could be physically available all the time to the OW. You act like being married is a handicap he's forced to deal with instead of a choice he willingly makes every single day of his life . . .

 

Wow would I love to be an MM with both an OW & a BS who make excuses for me! What a life.

[MissBee]

Yeah but the question is, who would want to be with a good guy who's physically unavailable at times because he's married?? Can't we as women do better than that?!

 

Your posts baffle me Persephone, it's like you make excuses for MMs. In that case you are the same as the wives I was just talking about in another thread, who make excuses for their husband's cheating & blame it all on the OW. Except you blame it all on the fact that he's married. That's plain illogical if you ask me. He has a choice in whether he's married or not, & if not married he could be physically available all the time to the OW. You act like being married is a handicap he's forced to deal with instead of a choice he willingly makes every single day of his life . . .

Wow would I love to be an MM with both an OW & a BS who make excuses for me! What a life.

 

Precisely....

 

I just don't get that...that will always be my question...if it is true that there is more than one good man in the world and no man is your LAST CHANCE (which is true!)...then why would you attach yourself to someone attached to someone else?

 

Makes no sense.

 

That's like me saying I found my dream house but SOMEONE ELSE lives there and instead of saying, it's nice and maybe I can find another like it or even build one myself...I am going to park outside the house everyday staring at it and hoping that it will one day be mine.

 

If a man is married to someone else...he is not my soul mate. Plain and simple. If he is not my soul mate I don't need to go to the ends of the earth to be with him. If he is my soul mate then I can leave it alone and he will feel compelled to divorce and pursue me and build a foundation with me, fully. If he is also "such a great man", then he would do the right thing. If I happen to meet my soulmate when he is married to another, I would only believe he was right for me and pursue it if HE restrained himself and actually made sure to get the situation sorted out first. Once he wants to prance around with me behind his wife's back...instant turn off. Been there, done that and if a man is going to do that again, I am not going to foolishly be flattered but consider it a red flag and not as some great guy, who is handicapped by a marriage who I need to be with.

Edited June 15, 2011 by MissBee

[fooled once]

Precisely....

 

I just don't get that...that will always be my question...if it is true that there is more than one good man in the world and no man is your LAST CHANCE (which is true!)...then why would you attach yourself to someone attached to someone else?

 

Makes no sense.

 

That's like me saying I found my dream house but SOMEONE ELSE lives there and instead of saying, it's nice and maybe I can find another like it or even build one myself...I am going to park outside the house everyday staring at it and hoping that it will one day be mine.

 

If a man is married to someone else...he is not my soul mate. Plain and simple. If he is not my soul mate I don't need to go to the ends of the earth to be with him. If he is my soul mate then I can leave it alone and he will feel compelled to divorce and pursue me and build a foundation with me, fully. If he is also "such a great man", then he would do the right thing. If I happen to meet my soulmate when he is married to another, I would only believe he was right for me and pursue it if HE restrained himself and actually made sure to get the situation sorted out first. Once he wants to prance around with me behind his wife's back...instant turn off. Been there, done that and if a man is going to do that again, I am not going to foolishly be flattered but consider it a red flag and not as some great guy, who is handicapped by a marriage who I need to be with.

 

MissB, you are dead right, but there are PLENTY of OW who willingly sit and wait years and years (and are still waiting) for the MM to make a decision. They like to call these cheaters "split selfs" as in he just can't, just CAN'T, make a decision.

 

He has the wife he loves, the mother of his kids, the woman who rules his house....and then he has the mistress (and in many cases, like one who is participating on this thread, long distance and doesn't see him often - maybe 1-2 times a year IF that, and webcamming doesn't count as "seeing" someone". Those OW have no other life and they hang onto these MM like lifelines. They can't and won't see it for what it is. They need to believe he loves them because their lives are so lonely and they would have to admit they made a mistake waiting YEARS for some dude. Heck, I bet 20 years from now, those same women will still be waiting for the MM to make a decision. Pretty silly, huh?

[Silly_Girl]

Just for those posters who've asked 'send me the link, I don't see those types of posts' (you know who you are). See above.

[Silly_Girl]

There's a huge difference between the single guy who is emotionally unavailable because he's a jerk and the good guy who is physically unavailable at times because he's married.

 

Agreed. But I see quite a few posters lately who got in to something, then decided it was unfair/wrong or someone else was to blame. The onus is, in both the situations above, on the individual to accept, or not, what's on offer. The principle is the same. I'm not judging, but a few people seem to have got themselves in quite a little pickle...

 

Then you have the guys who are both jerks and married, and it does seem like there are quite a few OW on LS who have been unfortunate enough to have MM like that.

 

Yes indeed.