Next steps?

[heartinlove]

HI Kidd,

 

I read through this thread and I have to say I am really impressed by how you are handling this. Your commitment to your marriage, to seeing the good in your wife despite her previous choices, and being willing to reconcile are really admirable.

 

I am also really impressed with your ability to stay true to what you know about your life and your marriage and what you see as the correct path. Its pretty remarkable given all the crazy, almost comical and insanely paranoid feedback you are getting at times. Some people refuse to see the fallibility we all have as human beings and have no space in their heart or beings for forgiveness. It appears to me reading through your thread that your wife is absolutely committed to your marriage.

 

Your wife appears truly remorseful and doing her part, and I hope you're marriage makes it. Given how you are handling all this, I believe you are one of the ones that reconciliation will work for. I wish you the best to stay true to your self and believing your marriage can not only survive but thrive again.

[Kidd]

Thanks. I've been having one of those sad and grieving kind of mornings. Sometimes the feeling of loss is still a bit overwhelming. I feel good about my actions and I'm at peace with them but I'm only about 2 months from dday so the emotions can come back whenever they like. We're both taking the right actions but I do fear that we're both a bit broken from this and we both know it. It slows down recovery. Nice to hear sometimes that what I'm doing has some level of support out there. A little extra strength helps. So thanks again.

[silktricks]

Thanks. I've been having one of those sad and grieving kind of mornings. Sometimes the feeling of loss is still a bit overwhelming. I feel good about my actions and I'm at peace with them but I'm only about 2 months from dday so the emotions can come back whenever they like. We're both taking the right actions but I do fear that we're both a bit broken from this and we both know it. It slows down recovery. Nice to hear sometimes that what I'm doing has some level of support out there. A little extra strength helps. So thanks again.

 

You both being a bit broken really doesn't slow recovery. It's part of the whole recovery process. The fact that both of you (instead of just you ) realize that you are both having difficulty (broken) is actually a forward step. 2 months is, as you know, early days yet. You are making good progress.

 

One comment I'd like to make in agreement with something Kriss said... (though admittedly not for the same reasons...) After D-Day I didn't have anything to drink for somewhere in the 6 to 8 months range. Though feeling like you are doing "normal" things when in a group is important, it's also important to realize the alcohol doesn't work well when you're dealing with emotional issues. You're still riding a roller coaster right now, and it's important that you stay in control.

 

Anyway, good luck. Enjoy your vacation and spend as much or as little time around other people as you feel you want to. Give yourselves permission to vanish if you feel like it.

[heartinlove]

We're both taking the right actions but I do fear that we're both a bit broken from this and we both know it.

 

One last thing that I thought I would share. Its a quote I heard that I believe is really true. After a traumatic event we can be broken or we can be broken open.

 

I believe that is a universal truth and I know from my own experience that some of our most traumatic events can lead to our greatest transformations and awakenings. I understand you are in the early days of your reconciliation and right now you and your wife are feeling more broken. But as you progress, through both of your choices, I hope you allow yourselves to be broken open.

[Snowflower]

Kidd,

 

Not sure if you are still reading or if you have left for vacation...

 

I haven't read all 33 pages of this thread so perhaps you have already addressed this...

 

Please don't underestimate your OWN feelings when you are around colleagues/friends who might, in all likelihood, know something about the affair. People aren't dumb and the sparks given off during an affair are easily detectable by anyone outside who has an ounce of relationship sense!

 

So, don't be surprised if you encounter a few glances of speculation, pity, angst, sympathy, etc. from those friends. At least some of them know; you can count on it.

 

The reason I am concerned for your feelings is this: At 6 months after my d-day, I attended an overnight work meeting/retreat with my H. I went shopping and enjoyed a change of scenery while he did his work stuff. I remember at dinner that night we were with a group of his work friends (no OW-who was also a colleague of all of them) and one woman in particular really took the time to come over and speak with me and visit. I know that she was trying to be friendly and I had met her before. Thing is, she also worked directly with the OW--somehow, I knew that this 3rd person knew the whole thing.

 

I still believe this 3rd person had honest, good intentions and was simply trying to put me at ease. But I still think I could detect a sort of pity or sense that she knew things.

 

It bothered me the whole evening and that was just one evening. I can't imagine how it would be to be with a group of your WS work friends for days on end, when some of them know.

 

I'm worried that the atmosphere at the vacation house will be one big trigger for you. I know that I would not have been able to endure that so soon after d-day. It's one thing to spend a short amount of time with people who were around when the affair was happening, it's another to have to deal with it for several days.

 

I think you are underestimating the strength of your own feelings as you go on this trip. Avoid the alcohol-like others said, you need to stay in control.

 

Hope you haven't covered this already and my concern is for YOU.

[Kidd]

Thanks for all of the thoughts and suggestions. I'm strongly considering taking her elsewhere. She'll understand. Other than surviving a long weekend with her friends, I agree that there is little upside. I certainly expect that more of her work folks "know" than what she thinks.

[Binster]

HI Kidd just wondered if your wife has read this thread yet, and if so what she thinks about how shes portrayed.

I think you did the right thing in telling the other guys wife I think you would have regretted it badly if you hadn't.

Also for what it's worth I think you're doing the right thing for yourself and your kids in trying to R if it works great if not you truly gave it your best, good luck with it.

[Kidd]

Asked her the other night and she said she had already read it. I was like, "Really?" She clarified that she had read my original post and that was it. Said she didn't read everyone's replies. She doesn't have much faith in random opinions; I think she might have something there. Don't think she honestly would have had enough time alone to read it all anyway. Doubt OM or OMW is keeping up. I'm comfortable assuming the whole party is here. I think honesty is a critical component and I plan on leading by example. Probably slow down my posts; family vacation in a couple days. Chins up.

[Kidd]

Binster-

 

Thanks for the supportive post. Doing my best to provide a second chance without unnecessary drama. It's a bit of an experiment. Feel honorable about my decisions but doubt many. It's a curse for any BS, I think. I think today's cultural approach may hand-cuff reconciliation. Big risk, I admit, but I think it may create one of the few reconciled M's worth having. I'm beginning to believe that you have to give it a real chance or it's not worth it. Believe I will truly know the wise choice over time. Got at least a few people rooting for me. My wife, children, and I deserve a legitimate second shot. Ultimately, will be proud of myself either way. What else matters?

[2sunny]

so what is the next step?

 

i'd like to understand what actions your wife has been taking to repair the damage she caused...

[gpatb43]

This is a walkaway wife [Michele Weiner Davis] based on the first post only, which is all she said she looked at, and leaving out all the random opinions.

 

Sounds like kidd is in the process of being sand-bagged but is too close to the situation to be able to see it.

 

Or perhaps not. She may have a legitimate point - some people's posts on this thread are pretty pointless because they speak of her as a person beyond remorse or recovery. Why should she be obligated to read what people's opinions are when they are just that, based typically on the views of BS? Her recovery is far better served outside of such commentary, but pursuant to above, that's just yet another opinion.

 

I think Kidd deserves immense credit for being here but following the path he believes is right - whatever the outcome, I agree with him, he will be proud he did that.

[gpatb43]

 

Or maybe she's just lying about that like a lot of other things she lies to him about.

 

Maybe - reality is we just dont know. That's why it's Kidds decision to decide.

[gpatb43]

Clearly kidd tried to initiate some sort of discussion pertaining to what has been posted in this thread yet his wife successfully deflected him. Too bad. She still doesn't want to honestly communicate and she's still manipulating him, and he's letting her get away with it.

 

Even if that's true (which I doubt but cant ever know) it's Kidd's choice right, and so rather than castigate him for it, would it not be more constructive to acknowledge his right to decide for himself?

[gpatb43]

.......................

 

If you report someone is "allowing something to happen to them" thats castigation in my book. On the contrary, I am sure Kidd is more than capable (than anyone else on here because he's the only one who knows ALL the facts and is CLOSE enough to know them), of deciding whether he is allowing this or not.

[Kidd]

Gpat, thanks for the support but please don't feel a need to engage these people. My W reading my posts is about the least important thing in the universe. Little people like Tregor grasp on to the smallest things in an attempt to influence others to be as miserable and bitter as they. What other motivation do they have for pushing negativity on people that are clearly focused on moving forward with reconciling? They typically talk about how they want to save others unnecessary pain and time. I have found that I am not intimidated by pain any longer. When it comes to saving me time, I have 17 years invested; I'll decide how much more I am comfortable investing. They are wasting their time (and now yours). Take comfort in knowing that my W and I continue to successfully reconcile, regardless of every possible doom and gloom prediction, and we continue to have the difficult conversations that will take us to the next level. I'll never be happy that this happened but welcome to life. I'm ultimately making the best decisions for me based on my new reality. Others have different situations, different opinions and can choose to do otherwise.

[Kidd]

I didn't say you couldn't spend your time as you like. I simply judged you for it, a judgment which you chose to ignore. As usual with your type, you fail to give creedence to your own motivation to influence others in this fashion.

 

As for my W's reading of my posts, it was shared in a spirit of openness and honesty. I was leading by example. Her actual reason of it is irrelevant. I'm glad she focuses more on our present and future. We've dealt with the past and revisit it when necessary. In this regard, she is leading by example.

 

If you must be nosy about her role, her exOM expects for himself to move in the next few weeks. It is still tentative. If he does not move, he has gained approval for her to move by the end of the month. In the meantime, she works very few days and almost none together which has been intentionally designed. But it's not relevant. The affair is over. While evil, serial cheaters exist in the world, this isn't one of those situations. I don't really care what you've read about strict NC, as if I haven't read the same stuff. There is always a risk in any relationship that people can breach the agreement. I have learned to temper my inteilligence on this subject with wisdom. How is your relationship these days? Can you say the same?

[Kidd]

And by the way, I have imposed very few consequences as you put it. Not that you would know about those that I have since I don't report to you. Her consequences are by far the natural consequences that occur as a result of her actions. Those are painful and plenty. By avoiding my natural but illl-advised instincts to impose additional and artificial consequences, I have created an environment that deals with the issue and permits for quick and successful reconciliation. But you go ahead and stick with what you read in books and on the Internet. I'll be getting back to my relationship. I was just trying to save my friend from wasting time with you.

[Owl]

Kidd,

 

Read your updates with interest.

 

I'm curious...so what specific steps are you two taking to rebuild your marriage, reconcile from the damage done from the affair, and "affair proof" your marriage given what's happened?

 

What are the two of you ACTIVELY DOING to help yourself recover? Both as a couple, and as individuals?

[Kidd]

Owl, you like that question. I respect your approach and it is a tough question.

 

Before I answer, I think our success (short-lived as it may be at this point) is actually a credit to my W's actions and reactions since Dday. While I've had to suffer a long term affair, I havent had to suffer what so many others do with unremorseful spouses that shut-down, leave for the OM, trickle truth, continue the affair, blameshift, gaslight, etc.. Yesterday she told me she hardly thinks of her relationship with the OM at all. I doubt many are so fortunate. She knows the A was fantasy and they never saw each other as soulmates or had a plan to move on together.

 

There is work on both parties. We've both read SAA. I just finished HNHN, and she's starting it. When she finishes, we'll do the needs questionnaire and lists. We do MC pretty much weekly except this month with a lot of vacation time. We both have ICs.

 

I've done a lot of work on myself. Prior to the A, I was down about work and not well motivated. My W is very task-oriented and I allowed her to take too much of a leadership role with plans, finances, etc.. We were out of balance when ultimately she needed more of an alpha male. I don't accept blame for her decisions but I take 50% responsibility for both of us being unhappy at the time. She takes the other 50% and 100% of the decision to have an affair. Much of our success has been because I have taken a leadership role in this situation and at home in general. Tough to do when your confidence and ego is shaken but I see huge success when I do and little success when I'm acting like a needy beta. I'm not rude like some beta philosophies; it's about leadership. To be brief, I have changed.

 

I think she is so remorseful because she saw these changes almost immediately. During the A, she didn't think I could change. Then I changed almost everything that gave her concern without having any kind of request list from her. I just knew what I needed to fix. The great betrayed spouse weight loss program also helped as did some hysterical bonding and a lot of legitimate and consistent affection going both ways whenever we're together.

 

I don't want to re-list everything she has done but again, it's a remarkable turnaround. Much more time at home, openness, honesty, and all he transparency stuff I needed to get to satisfy my immediate need for safety and security. I'm sure many are waiting for the other shoe to drop. We'll see. I think our feet are planted firmly on the floor. Now we can work on the Mge.

 

Trust me, I still have my moments. Yesterday was a rough day. But we also spent a week trapped with my family.

 

What was encouraging is that we managed a full week without discussing the A. We achieved a week of relative normalcy. She appreciated it and it brings her closer to me. Anyway, enough for now.

 

Otherwise, she has really opened up. Mostly, she regrets that she didn't take steps sooner to directly address when she was unhappy in the M.

[Owl]

Excellent! See...this is taking active measures.

 

One suggestion if you don't mind. Discuss with her HOW her A started with OM. Examine it from the point of boundaries...where she SHOULD have stopped versus what she actually did.

 

It'll help her learn and understand the need to have and enforce clear, concise boundaries with how she should and shouldn't interact with other men.

 

You might bring this up as a discussion point in MC.

 

Make it clear you're not punishing her at all...just trying to help her establish good boundaries to safeguard your marriage going forward.

 

It sounds to me like you're doing the right things, my friend!

[RobD70]

Hey Kidd, your wife is doing exactly what mine did when we first reconciled after her 3 month long affair. I was saying the same things you are saying now and I left the forums after that to work on my marriage. In hindsight that was a mistake since 6 months later I was back.

 

In my case the OM (who was also married) was NC for almost the entire 6 months then out of the blue he contacted her and it was on again. Completely blind-sighted me. I couldn’t believe she would go down that road again after the fallout from the first time but once your emotions take over you do irrational things.

 

I hope the best for you and hope this doesn’t turn out to be a false R. I worry about that because like you I reconciled not that long after D-Day (a few months) and there were actually little consequences from me. Once the dust settles things do change.

[Kidd]

Thanks for the heads up.

 

The whole damn thing is a risk, to be sure. Your situation is not uncommon. My W is getting one second chance and that's it. I hope she makes the right choices this time around. I'm not afraid of the pain this time. I'll be proud I did the right thing for my kids, my marriage, myself, and even for her. If it doesn't work, I'll feel good about moving on without the regrets that I would've had by not trying the first time. We still have to have more discussion around boundaries so that she reacts correctly when he inevitably reaches out.

[Kidd]

By the way, how did you find out the second time?

 

How did things end up? If you don't mind me asking.

[Owl]

I think it's VERY common for it to take a couple of tries for NC to stick.

 

In my case, it took a while for my wife to TRULY make her choice. Several weeks post d-day, my wife had only made her choice to rebuild the marriage about two weeks prior, and suddenly OM sent her an email. Major setback.

 

There were some struggles for about another week, that ended up in her TRULY going NC permanently after that.

 

In our situation, I was with her when she got the first email from him...she didn't tell me about the second to another email account, but I had access to all of her email accounts and saw it. I gave her a couple of days to tell me about it...when she didn't, we got into a huge fight over it, that finally brought it all out in the open.

 

It was a few days later that she 'got it' about why 'just friends' truly wouldn't ever work out...and that was the end of their communication with him...about seven years ago.

 

Remember that the "fog" takes a while to clear out...and that makes NC hard to get to stick for a while in the beginning.

[JaneyAmazed]

Owl, you like that question. I respect your approach and it is a tough question.

 

Before I answer, I think our success (short-lived as it may be at this point) is actually a credit to my W's actions and reactions since Dday. While I've had to suffer a long term affair, I havent had to suffer what so many others do with unremorseful spouses that shut-down, leave for the OM, trickle truth, continue the affair, blameshift, gaslight, etc.. Yesterday she told me she hardly thinks of her relationship with the OM at all. I doubt many are so fortunate. She knows the A was fantasy and they never saw each other as soulmates or had a plan to move on together.

 

There is work on both parties. We've both read SAA. I just finished HNHN, and she's starting it. When she finishes, we'll do the needs questionnaire and lists. We do MC pretty much weekly except this month with a lot of vacation time. We both have ICs.

 

I've done a lot of work on myself. Prior to the A, I was down about work and not well motivated. My W is very task-oriented and I allowed her to take too much of a leadership role with plans, finances, etc.. We were out of balance when ultimately she needed more of an alpha male. I don't accept blame for her decisions but I take 50% responsibility for both of us being unhappy at the time. She takes the other 50% and 100% of the decision to have an affair. Much of our success has been because I have taken a leadership role in this situation and at home in general. Tough to do when your confidence and ego is shaken but I see huge success when I do and little success when I'm acting like a needy beta. I'm not rude like some beta philosophies; it's about leadership. To be brief, I have changed.

 

I think she is so remorseful because she saw these changes almost immediately. During the A, she didn't think I could change. Then I changed almost everything that gave her concern without having any kind of request list from her. I just knew what I needed to fix. The great betrayed spouse weight loss program also helped as did some hysterical bonding and a lot of legitimate and consistent affection going both ways whenever we're together.

 

I don't want to re-list everything she has done but again, it's a remarkable turnaround. Much more time at home, openness, honesty, and all he transparency stuff I needed to get to satisfy my immediate need for safety and security. I'm sure many are waiting for the other shoe to drop. We'll see. I think our feet are planted firmly on the floor. Now we can work on the Mge.

 

Trust me, I still have my moments. Yesterday was a rough day. But we also spent a week trapped with my family.

 

What was encouraging is that we managed a full week without discussing the A. We achieved a week of relative normalcy. She appreciated it and it brings her closer to me. Anyway, enough for now.

 

Otherwise, she has really opened up. Mostly, she regrets that she didn't take steps sooner to directly address when she was unhappy in the M.

 

Kidd, I just read through this thread (not every post). I had not been keeping up with your story. I responded to you on my thread assuming you were a WS. Sorry! Anyway, the part I bolded is a really good sign. My H and I don't talk about the A very much. Once in a while, something will trigger a conversation, but I think it's healthy to not talk about it all the time. I think at first I was so impatient and so scared. I thought we had to talk about it all the time. I realized later that was not necessary and that it helped my H more not to talk about it. I went from being totally dishonest with him (during the affair) to wanting to be so honest that it ended up hurting him more. If we do talk about the A, we don't focus on xOM. Actually, we never talk about xOM. We mostly talk about the issues in our marriage and what made me do what I did. I think you are making giant steps at this point.

 

I also wanted to say that it's hard for me sometimes to know how my H is feeling. I know that he hurts and he still has triggers and images that pop up in his head. He doesn't talk about it all, but I always assume it's there. I hope you can express to your W what you are going through. It really helps to know that. If you can't, I hope she realizes it's there. There is no way in the world to know how my H or any BS feels. I think it's on a level that is beyond my comprehension. Please post your feelings as often as possible. I think it will give me insight to some of my H's thoughts.