Next steps?

[drifter777]

If you cannot reach forgiveness, at least peace is good. May I ask what your definition of forgiveness is?

 

For me, forgiveness involves tacit approval of whatever it is you are forgiving. It's the ability to empathize with the offending person such that you can say to yourself "I may have done the same things under those circumstances". Given my definition, forgiving my wife is simply not possible.

[silktricks]

For me, forgiveness involves tacit approval of whatever it is you are forgiving. It's the ability to empathize with the offending person such that you can say to yourself "I may have done the same things under those circumstances". Given my definition, forgiving my wife is simply not possible.

 

Given your definition, I can understand how it would not be possible to forgive. You may want to consider a less onerous definition...

 

If I accepted that as my definition of forgiveness, there are very few people who have harmed me that I could ever forgive. That would not be a comfortable life for me . I'd rather accept that all people are messed-up, and that though I would not do "x" I can understand that in their messed-up state they did - and that possibly they would not do something that I would do when in a messed-up state.

Edited August 4, 2011 by silktricks

[Owl]

Simply talking about it doesn't "heal the marriage."

 

Wrong. Talking through it, ensuring that each other understands clearly what you're feeling, working through what SHOULD have happened and agreeing on steps to protect the marriage and preventing it from happening again is EXACTLY what heals a marriage.

 

Remember...I've healed a marriage. You have not. You have no basis to know what does heal a marriage.

 

 

 

 

A WS has no pain for what they've done so your comment should be reversed.

 

Again, incorrect. It may be possible that YOUR WIFE didn't have any qualms about hurting you...but most WS's that I've met/seen post/etc... do indeed feel guilt/remorse/regret/pain for what they've done. Not only for the damage they've done to themselves, but for the damage they've done to their spouse/their family/etc...

 

Again...not all of them feel this way. Perhaps your wife didn't care about the damage, but my experience both in my situation and from posting and learning about affairs has shown me that many WS's do indeed end up hurting as a result of their actions. But, I could understand if your situation were different and your wife felt otherwise.

 

Again talking about it a few times will not lessen the pain and besides, the WS already knew the insurmountable damage they were causing from day one.

 

Wrong once more. Often they're not giving any thought at all to the "insurmountable damage" that will be caused by what they're doing. Their focus is on themselves and the immediate moment...with no consideration to the long term effects.

 

Later...they usually do become aware. But at the moment...not always.

 

Again tho...I accept that your wife may well have gladly done what she did with the full awareness that what she was doing was going to devestate you. Your situation may be different than mine...in fact, I'm sure it was. I've seen a good bit of indication that your marriage in general was likely far different than mine, and so her actions and intentions may have been much different than what happened in my situation...or in those of the numerous posters we've seen here on LS.

[Owl]

Kidd,

 

I may have missed it...I've been "away" (LOL!) for a while. But what's the status of your wife's job change? Or 'his' job change?

[John Michael Kane]

Wrong.

 

Here we go again.....

 

Talking through it, ensuring that each other understands clearly what you're feeling, working through what SHOULD have happened and agreeing on steps to protect the marriage and preventing it from happening again is EXACTLY what heals a marriage.

You can talk about something until the day you die, but that won't heal the permanent damage of infidelity. Cheaters knew the steps, knew what they should've done from day one, yet they chose to do otherwise. You're making it like that's somehow the BS's responsibility. You can't heal a marriage tainted by infidelity.

 

Remember...I've healed a marriage.

From what I remember, as others have pointed out, you have not.

 

You have not.

From what you've stated about your situation, you certainly haven't healed anything.

 

And you keep mentioning that you have a marriage and I don't, as if that's supposed to make me jealous.

 

 

You have no basis to know what does heal a marriage.

Yet your rationalization for staying in your marriage is foolishly assuming that everyone is most likely to cheat as much as your wife.

 

Again, incorrect.

Nope.

 

most WS's that I've met/seen post/etc...

So you're basically assuming that the cheaters on here are remorseful when their posts clearly state otherwise.

 

do indeed feel guilt/remorse/regret/pain for what they've done. Not only for the damage they've done to themselves, but for the damage they've done to their spouse/their family/etc...

Sure they feel a little "sad" for what they've done, but the mindset doesn't change. They may never pull those pants down for anyone else ever again, but they loved ever second of that cheating. Saying hundreds of apologies and buying presents doesn't amount to being remorseful.

 

Again...not all of them feel this way.

Again all cheaters are the same.

 

Perhaps your wife

And she's no longer my wife.

 

didn't care about the damage,

Correct, but this is a moot point IMO.

 

but my experience both in my situation and from posting and learning about affairs

Your "situation"......

 

has shown me that many WS's do indeed end up hurting as a result of their actions.

Nope, that's what you keep telling yourself in order to settle, along with other cheaters constantly telling lies in order to put themselves in a good light. They're not hurt from cheating. They only say they're "hurt" because their BS rips them a new booty.

 

But, I could understand if your situation were different and your wife felt otherwise.

.........

 

Wrong once more. Often they're not giving any thought at all to the "insurmountable damage" that will be caused by what they're doing. Their focus is on themselves and the immediate moment...with no consideration to the long term effects.

Which brings us back to my original comment. All you did was rephrase what I just stated. Not giving any thought to the inevitable consequences is the same as being ignorant to them, which is why I stated that they knew what would happen eventually if they decided to cheat. All your comments are just indirectly defending cheaters because it's what you say in order to stay married. You're scared and you're trying to come off as if you're not.

 

Later...they usually do become aware. But at the moment...not always.

They already knew from the start. Just like the show Unfaithful: Stories of Betrayal, after those cheaters cheated the first time, they knew they were wrong, felt a little guilt, and still decided to keep on cheating. Same with these self-centered stories on here. They knew cheating was wrong and still went on to cheat. And after they cheated for the first time, they felt a little guilty, but still went back to their POS to get some more. That's why I show no mercy to them.

 

Again tho...I accept that your wife may well have gladly done what she did with the full awareness that what she was doing was going to devestate you.

Why do you keep mentioning my ex?

 

That's not what this thread is about.

 

Your situation may be different than mine...in fact, I'm sure it was.

I know it is, which is why those generalizations and rationalizations you keep stating are untrue IMO.

 

I've seen a good bit of indication that your marriage in general was likely far different than mine, and so her actions and intentions may have been much different than what happened in my situation...or in those of the numerous posters we've seen here on LS.

I don't know what is the deal with you constantly mentioning her.

[silktricks]

I know it is, which is why those generalizations and rationalizations you keep stating are untrue IMO.

 

OMG, it's a breakthrough . The first time you've EVER admitted that any of the stuff you post is JUST YOUR OPINION. You've never attempted a reconciliation, therefore you have not a speck of real knowledge about how it works for people who actually have done it. :lmao:

[Owl]

Here we go again.....

 

You can talk about something until the day you die, but that won't heal the permanent damage of infidelity. Cheaters knew the steps, knew what they should've done from day one, yet they chose to do otherwise. You're making it like that's somehow the BS's responsibility. You can't heal a marriage tainted by infidelity.

 

From what I remember, as others have pointed out, you have not.

 

From what you've stated about your situation, you certainly haven't healed anything.

 

Again, incorrect. My marriage most certainly has healed. Others (including yourself) have repeatedly tried to twist things around to support their own stilted viewpoint and insist that it hasn't. They couldn't possibly know. They don't live my life or see my marriage, nor do I believe they'd be capable of identifying a marriage that has recovered and reconciled if it came up and bit them on the @$$.

 

I believe that it WAS impossible to reconcile your marriage. I don't believe that YOU were capable of doing so in any fashion or form. I suspect that much of what we see demonstrated of your behaviors here on LS were most likely primary contributing factors to the state of your marriage, your wife's choices on how to handle that marriage, and the ultimate demise of that relationship.

 

I don't know WHICH partner in your marriage truly opted to remove the other person from their lives. I suspect that in your case, it was most likely a very mutual decision.

 

 

So you're basically assuming that the cheaters on here are remorseful when their posts clearly state otherwise.

 

No, their posts very often DO state and demonstrate remorse. The problem is, I don't believe that your capable of seeing it. Again, see the "bit in the butt" point above.

 

 

Sure they feel a little "sad" for what they've done, but the mindset doesn't change. They may never pull those pants down for anyone else ever again, but they loved ever second of that cheating. Saying hundreds of apologies and buying presents doesn't amount to being remorseful.

 

Again, that may well be true of your wife in your own personal situation. It's the only situation with which you can speak of with any authority. I'll accept that your wife probably did love every second of it, based on your words above.

 

As far as whether or not anyone else regretted it...how could you possibly know? If you aren't them, and aren't married to them, how could you possible know what they truly felt or didn't? I wasn't aware that telepathy and being an empath were actually documented abilities...most impressive.

 

And she's no longer my wife.

 

Clearly. But I'm given to wonder the reality of who made the decision...her, or you? I kinda suspect it wasn't so much that she was given the boot...

 

 

Nope, that's what you keep telling yourself in order to settle, along with other cheaters constantly telling lies in order to put themselves in a good light. They're not hurt from cheating. They only say they're "hurt" because their BS rips them a new booty.

 

Again...entirely possible in your situation. That doesn't make it the same in everyone else's. Just because SHE didn't regret it doesn't mean that others didn't...

 

I don't know what is the deal with you constantly mentioning her.

 

Because SHE is your only frame of reference. She is the only personal experience you've got to base your skewed version of reality from. She's relevent because she's what you base all of your hatred, all of your anger, all of your vitriol and insistent beliefs that all cheaters must be like upon.

 

Was she like this? Maybe. Is that how you view her now? Certainly. Does that mean everyone else is like that...not for everyone else...but you clearly seem to have a deep need to believe so.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Owl

[John Michael Kane]

OMG, it's a breakthrough . The first time you've EVER admitted that any of the stuff you post is JUST YOUR OPINION.

 

Ahhh but see my opinion is a FACT. Don't get it twisted.

 

You've never attempted a reconciliation,

Exactly, for obvious reasons. It's not an obligation.

 

therefore you have not a speck of real knowledge about how it works for people who actually have done it.

When people say that someone doesn't know anything about a situation, it shows their lack of character and their inability to engage in a discussion.

 

And from what has been posted on this forum, the people on here (including you) are in no way "reconciled." Problems are not solved when you refuse to recognize the denial in yourselves.

 

:lmao:

This just shows you weren't laughing at all.

[silktricks]

Exactly, for obvious reasons. It's not an obligation.

 

And from what has been posted on this forum, the people on here (including you) are in no way "reconciled." Problems are not solved when you refuse to recognize the denial in yourselves.

 

Of course it's not an obligation. That would be silly.

 

D'nile - isn't that da river in Africa???

 

I won't engage you anymore - just wanted to poke a little fun at your "break-through"

[John Michael Kane]

Again, incorrect. My marriage most certainly has healed.

 

How Owl? Please elaborate. Feel free.

 

Others (including yourself) have repeatedly tried to twist things around to support their own stilted viewpoint and insist that it hasn't.

 

Others, including myself, have not twisted anything around to support anything. We merely state facts except those "others" (including YOURself) refuse to deal with the issues they know they have, and in turn, exhaustively uses the word "bitter" to TRY to get a point across.

 

They couldn't possibly know. They don't live my life or see my marriage,

 

We see your marriage quite clear.

 

nor do I believe they'd be capable of identifying a marriage that has recovered and reconciled if it came up and bit them on the @$$.

 

It's funny how you want to make all of these generalizations about those who have not decided to settle, but when someone calls you out on your vices, it's "You know nothing about me!"

 

I believe that it WAS impossible to reconcile your marriage. I don't believe that YOU were capable of doing so in any fashion or form. I suspect that much of what we see demonstrated of your behaviors here on LS were most likely primary contributing factors to the state of your marriage, your wife's choices on how to handle that marriage, and the ultimate demise of that relationship.

 

So you're basically saying that because of my view about infidelity, that I'M at fault for my ex-wife cheating. Your paragraph just shows how much you're in denial about yourself and your marriage, soaking up everything these cheaters are feeding you.

 

Let's say that your contorted assumption is true. If I'm at fault for my ex having an affair, then the same can be said for your wife choosing to cheat on you. So if I made my wife cheat, so did you, and every other BS on here. Because you chose to stay in denial about the problems in your marriage, your refusal to fix the issues led your wife to chat excessively with another man, and led her to plan a trip to "take care of business."

 

Baloney!

 

I don't know WHICH partner in your marriage truly opted to remove the other person from their lives. I suspect that in your case, it was most likely a very mutual decision.

 

Sure it was Owl.

 

No, their posts very often DO state and demonstrate remorse. The problem is, I don't believe that your capable of seeing it.

 

No their posts, including those of your caliber do not, in any way, demonstrate remorse or reconciliation. You're just refusing to acknowledge your denial.

 

Again, see the "bit in the butt" point above.

 

That was no point. It was a non sequitur.

 

Again, that may well be true of your wife in your own personal situation. It's the only situation with which you can speak of with any authority.

 

And it is true about your own situation. You're in denial. I'm not the one who settled for half of a spouse.

 

I'll accept that your wife probably did love every second of it, based on your words above.

 

And I'll accept that your wife probably regrets staying at home and not getting her "product" that she "purchased" online, based on your words above.

 

As far as whether or not anyone else regretted it...how could you possibly know? If you aren't them, and aren't married to them, how could you possible know what they truly felt or didn't? I wasn't aware that telepathy and being an empath were actually documented abilities...most impressive.

 

Being that I was married to one, and all of the posts cheaters display on here, and my encounter with a few IRL, I know. I can't say the same for you and your situation because it seems you're "whipped."

 

Clearly. But I'm given to wonder the reality of who made the decision...her, or you? I kinda suspect it wasn't so much that she was given the boot...

 

And this is coming from someone who blindly puts their wife on a pedestal.

 

Again...entirely possible in your situation. That doesn't make it the same in everyone else's. Just because SHE didn't regret it doesn't mean that others didn't...

 

I didn't say that. You did.

 

Because SHE is your only frame of reference.

 

No she is not.

 

She is the only personal experience you've got to base your skewed version of reality from.

 

You got it all wrong again. Every cheater I have encountered in some way has shown no true remorse. I see why you keep mentioning my wife now: You're just "bitter" that you refuse to move on from your own situation. If you honestly think that having a stained marriage intact, is better than having someone who is not a cheater then it's time to get your frontal lobes checked.

 

She's relevent because she's what you base all of your hatred, all of your anger, all of your vitriol and insistent beliefs that all cheaters must be like upon.

 

Typical "bitter" response.

 

Was she like this? Maybe. Is that how you view her now? Certainly. Does that mean everyone else is like that...not for everyone else...but you clearly seem to have a deep need to believe so.

 

And you clearly have a deep need to believe that having half a wife is better than no wife.

[John Michael Kane]

Of course it's not an obligation. That would be silly.

 

D'nile - isn't that da river in Africa???

 

............

 

I won't engage you anymore - just wanted to poke a little fun at your "break-through"

 

My "break-through" occurred over 4 months ago.

[Owl]

That was truly entertaining, JMK!!! You missed your calling, my friend. And on that note, I'll opt not to t/j Kidd's thread anymore.

 

Hopefully he'll feel comfortable enough to post, or at least I hope he can feel free to PM me if he doesn't.

[GorillaTheater]

So you're basically saying that because of my view about infidelity, that I'M at fault for my ex-wife cheating.

 

You think Owl was saying that your "views on infidelity" had anything to do with your exwife putting you in her rear-view mirror?

 

[John Michael Kane]

That was truly entertaining, JMK!!! You missed your calling, my friend.

 

Nah I haven't. I already received it.

[reboot]

As usual, whenever you can't prove yourself right or someone else wrong, you resort to insults.

[GorillaTheater]

Your butt still sore, Doormat?

 

You still thinking about my ass, princess?

[John Michael Kane]

As usual, whenever you can't prove yourself right or someone else wrong, you resort to insults.

 

Oh no, see I already proved the moral of the story here.

 

And my previous comment was not an insult. It was a question.

[John Michael Kane]

You still thinking about my ass, princess?

 

Yes I'm still thinking about how bad it smelled when you were sitting next to me.

[GorillaTheater]

Yes I'm still thinking about how bad it smelled when you were sitting next to me.

 

There's no point in trading flames if you don't step it up. Try something along these lines:

 

John, do us all a favor please. Go and mix 12 Psilocybe mexicanas in a pot with 1 gallon of liquid chlorpromazine. Add 2 drops of phencyclidine and a live South American bufo toad. Bring to the boil. Serve to yourself warm and then wake up and smell the decomposing gerbil that you've obviously asphyxiated up your deviant ass. Thanks.

 

If you're going to talk about my ass, at least make it funny.

[John Michael Kane]

There's no point in trading flames if you don't step it up.

 

Is that the terms teens use these days?

 

John, do us all a favor please. Go and mix 12 Psilocybe mexicanas in a pot with 1 gallon of liquid chlorpromazine. Add 2 drops of phencyclidine and a live South American bufo toad. Bring to the boil. Serve to yourself warm and then wake up and smell the decomposing gerbil that you've obviously asphyxiated up your deviant ass. Thanks.

 

Nope. Won't do that.

 

If you're going to talk about my ass, at least make it funny.

 

It was funny.

[rafallus]

No wonder Kidd restricts himself to PMs...

[GorillaTheater]

It was funny.

 

No, see, funny would be me calling you a "glistening sack of drainpipe coagulant" or a "bottle-squatting trout-fondler". Comparing those to "your ass smells" is like comparing Soupy Sales to Chris Rock.

[GorillaTheater]

No wonder Kidd restricts himself to PMs...

 

Fair point. John, I'll look for you on a thread where somebody's marriage doesn't hang in the balance. See you then, muffin.

[John Michael Kane]

No, see, funny would be me calling you a "glistening sack of drainpipe coagulant" or a "bottle-squatting trout-fondler". Comparing those to "your ass smells" is like comparing Soupy Sales to Chris Rock.

 

Just getting worse with each attempt at a joke.

[John Michael Kane]

Fair point. John, I'll look for you on a thread where somebody's marriage doesn't hang in the balance. See you then, muffin.

 

Bye........