Next steps?

[2sunny]

well - since you wife has now read this - does she own her behavior and totally disrespecting you?

 

what exactly is she planning to DO to repair all the damage she has caused and needs to repair?

 

when SHE gets into action - without all the empty words - is when things may start to change...

 

until then, i have no reason to believe she intends to repair the M and let go of her MOM to be ONLY with you.

 

open your eyes... she's still being misleading.

[Untouchable_Fire]

As for an update...I shared this thread with the OMW so that she could understand more from my own words throughout. Interestingly enough, she forced the OM to read thru it all. Not so sure I was ready for my most intimate thoughts to be read by OM but, well, that's the internet for you. I have also shared this thread with my WW as part of my attempt to be radically honest.

 

... I take it Dale's posts were so traumatic you had to share...

 

Seriously this will change how you use Loveshack.

[Mz. Pixie]

... I take it Dale's posts were so traumatic you had to share...

 

Seriously this will change how you use Loveshack.

 

This was a big mistake Kidd. I can see the premise behind it-but it was not a good idea because it is your safe haven right now. The policy of radical honesty is for people in recovery.

 

You are not in recovery yet-because you are still dealing with a partially foggy WW. Every time I have seen a spouse tell their partner about LS or another relationship forum unless recovery has truly begun it has been a bad scene.

 

You will find it hard to come here and bounce problems or concerns now because she will be able to read everything you post. If something happens or you think something is going on you won't be able to seek help in the thread. Man, I wish you would have asked first. She is just too foggy right now to be reading your posts. Not to mention the fact that if things go downhill she could use them against you.

 

I know- it happened to me. Not with LS but with another forum.

[RepairMinded]

JMK is spot on man. I agree you must wake up. I don't know where you're coming from with this "we're going to defy the odds" speech, when you have a wife who is currently disrespecting the marriage by continuing her affair with this married man. You can't move on to a better life if all you're going to do is hide under the sand. Take action and stand up for yourself. No one is here to discourage you (except for a few).

 

Misread the post initially.

 

It's good the OMW's forced him to read the thread.

Edited June 24, 2011 by RepairMinded

[RepairMinded]

As for an update...I shared this thread with the OMW so that she could understand more from my own words throughout.

 

I think sharing this thread with OMW was a brilliant move as she is your best ally in trying to end your WW's affair.

 

Typically the betrayed wife in her situation will often lay down a hard ultimatum to her cheating husband requiring him to immediately end the affair (known as "throwing his affair partner under the bus") or face a messy divorce and the loss of half of all his assets as well as possible loss of custody of his children (if they have any).

 

Hopefully the OMW won't have quite so much trouble installing hard boundaries on her spouse as you seem to be having.

 

Many OMs in this situation treat their work affair as just a dalliance and if faced with the real prospect of divorce and serious financial, social and emotional loss because of it, will respond by terminating the affair, although the betrayed spouses have to be on guard against it going "underground".

 

If this happens and the OM does throw your WW under the bus, it is possible the shock and disillusionment of realizing that she was only just a sexual dalliance for the OM might slowly bring your wife back to reality and back to you.

 

Hopefully the OMW's does the right thing here.

[RepairMinded]

Interestingly enough, she forced the OM to read thru it all. Not so sure I was ready for my most intimate thoughts to be read by OM but, well, that's the internet for you.

 

Excellent. The OMW is behaving in an assertive manner--she had no problem "forcing" him to read the thread. It doesn't sound like she is "negotiating" with him, does it? Perhaps you could start to take a cue from the OMW as to the best way of stopping a spouse's affair.

 

 

I have also shared this thread with my WW as part of my attempt to be radically honest.

 

Also excellent. I disagree with those who believe it was a tactical mistake to share this. Subtlety just does not work with a wayward spouse who is still in the "affair fog." You aren't really risking divulging any tactics or strategy because the time-tested tactics for effectively stopping an affair, if it can be stopped, are well known, and publicly available to everyone anyway.

 

What showing her this thread does is demonstrate you are completely serious about saving your marriage.

 

 

By the way, I understand radical honesty to be sharing everything with your spouse, not with Facebook.

 

The point is that your wife and her OM are responsible for the affair, not you, and therefore you shouldn't feel any shame at all if the whole world knows about it. Exposure and sunlight kill affairs dead, because affairs thrive in secrecy. Again a well known and publicly available affair-killing tactic.

 

 

 

So, I welcome the OM, OMW, and my WW to LS. I hope that sharing this creates understanding.

 

The OM, having had this thread basically shoved down his throat by his betrayed wife, now understands that he is busted and that in order to have any chance of saving his own marriage is going to have to throw your wife under the bus.

 

 

I must say it is liberating. We had 16 good years and one bad one.

 

The affair was at least 18 months so it was more than one bad year. Don't minimize the damage done by your wife and her OM. There's no reason to cut her or the OM any slack at all on this.

 

 

I see many more good ones ahead. We control our destiny from here.

 

I hope so but that all depends on whether or not your wife intended this affair as an "exit affair." And whether or not she is actually willing to put in the very hard work needed to try to successfully repair the marriage. You will simply not know whether this marriage can be saved for a minimum of two to three years, possibly much longer.

 

 

 

We are not destined to be the statistics represented. This year does not have to define who we are.

 

It is what it is. You are in no position to make optimistic assumptions at this point. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

 

 

 

In fact, our history tells a different story about what is likely to come...one that is destined to defy the odds that would bind us.

 

On the contrary your story is all too typical of a seemingly happily married couple where one of the partners has a "mid life crisis" affair. When the affair involves the wife it is often called "walk away wife" syndrome. Do a google search on walk away wife to find out more.

 

I took me a while to know that only the two of us can understand why there is more hope than despair even in this situation. Well, several others understand, too. Some think that history MUST repeat itself; I'm glad that we actually get to decide instead.

 

It is time to take command of your marriage. Stop negotiating, start "forcing," just like the OMW.

[RepairMinded]

I must comment that you have made a big mistake showing this thread to your wife. Now she's going to use your inner most thoughts to her advantage to keep her affair alive.

 

I disagree with this JMK.

 

Kidd's WW needs to see how her affair actions are perceived by various neutral third parties who unlike kidd have absolutely no emotional stake in their relationship nor rose colored glasses, and hopefully this will help to shock her out of the fantasy world of her affair.

[John Michael Kane]

I disagree with this JMK.

 

Kidd's WW needs to see how her affair actions are perceived by various neutral third parties who unlike kidd have absolutely no emotional stake in their relationship nor rose colored glasses, and hopefully this will help to shock her out of the fantasy world of her affair.

 

Understandable...

[RepairMinded]

This was a big mistake Kidd. I can see the premise behind it-but it was not a good idea because it is your safe haven right now. The policy of radical honesty is for people in recovery.

 

It was not a mistake. Honesty is good for everyone.

 

You are not in recovery yet-because you are still dealing with a partially foggy WW.

 

Kidd has finally started taking some effective steps towards recovery. Sharing this thread with the OMW and his WW is part of that process.

 

 

Every time I have seen a spouse tell their partner about LS or another relationship forum unless recovery has truly begun it has been a bad scene.

 

If the impetus to post at LS was that the other spouse was having an affair, the scene was already a bad scene.

 

 

 

You will find it hard to come here and bounce problems or concerns now because she will be able to read everything you post.

 

Anything that kidd believes should remain confidential can be communicated to LS members of his choice by private message (PM). Anything publicly posted in a discussion thread should be regarded as publicly available. Alternatively Kidd can discuss issues he wishes to remain confidential with an individual therapist, off line. His choice.

 

 

If something happens or you think something is going on you won't be able to seek help in the thread.

 

If kidd wants your help confidentially or the confidential help of any other LS members who he trusts, he can PM them for that help. There are plenty of options available.

 

 

 

Man, I wish you would have asked first. She is just too foggy right now to be reading your posts. Not to mention the fact that if things go downhill she could use them against you.

 

Kidd has been nothing but respectful to his wife on this thread so there is absolutely nothing she could "use against him."

 

I know- it happened to me. Not with LS but with another forum.

 

What actually happened to you? Were you a betrayed spouse or a wayward spouse? If the latter and you got into trouble because you posted details of your affair on a message forum and your BS found out, I'm not sure what the issue is.

[RepairMinded]

I have seen threads in MB where the betrayed H and wayward wife post regularly on the same thread.

 

Posting to each other on an internet discussion forum can be a good choice rather than face-to-face confrontations which can get very emotional. Being forced to type everything out provides some distance and neutrality.

 

It would be great if kidd's WW, OM, and OMW decide to start posting on this thread so we could get the viewpoints of the other participants in his situation.

 

There is no reason to pretend any of this is a secret any longer, because it isn't.

[RepairMinded]

Pixie if you are going to be counseling people that being honest is ever a bad strategy you need to be upfront about your perspective. The fallout you got from internet posting in your own situation was evidently because you were the WS:

 

 

 

 

 

23rd October 2007, 9:31 AM #36

 

Mz. Pixie

Established Member

 

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: The South

Posts: 4,283

 

I didn't tell because the affair was over and I was trying to work on the marriage. I truly didn't want him to carry that hurt- I thought since I was the one who cheated then I should be the one to hold the shame and the guilt- not him.

__________________

Sweetie, it's all true!

[What_Next]

My heavens, even the OP has asked rather politely that these group of posters to go elsewhere, but they still don't get it. They still have to be in here hammering away. Of course this is a public forum and they can post anywhere they like, but how about showing some common decency and leaving it be as they were asked? Stubborn. .

 

Kidd, drop me a PM if you like, because I have some specific advice and specific experience re: bringing one's spouse to LS. In fact my wife is now an active poster here on LS. It does most definitely effect the way you will use this forum. I am not saying I disagree with your decision, but I would like to discuss it with you. Due to the nonsense that is continuing on this thread I would rather have the discussion in private.

 

Lastly, as was suggested, using ignore to filter out these posters is about the only way you can see past their silliness. I have resorted to it, because there is no other choice. Don't let their behavior sour your use of LS. It can be incredibly helpful during these tough times.

[RepairMinded]

In fact my wife is now an active poster here on LS.

 

Right. That's why I think it's a very good idea that kidd disclosed his thread to the various players in his situation. Sharing this thread can be a very good way for him to resolve his on-going issues with his spouse, just like you are doing with yours. (I believe WhatNext's wife had an affair and then he had a so-called "revenge affair" but now they are trying to work things out.)

[RepairMinded]

I have seen threads in MB where the betrayed H and wayward wife post regularly on the same thread.

 

Precisely. Yet another example of people mending their relationship by sharing a relationship forum discussion thread. Honest communication is the key.

[RepairMinded]

Due to the nonsense that is continuing on this thread I would rather have the discussion in private.

 

You are free to PM kidd if you don't want to subject your advice to him to scrutiny.

[What_Next]

You are free to PM kidd if you don't want to subject your advice to him to scrutiny.

 

Really I am free to do that? Oh thank you so much for your permission. Good god. This is precisely the sort of nonsense I am talking about. Give it a rest would you.

 

You've already been asked to move on and leave this thread alone by the OP. Why can't you listen?

[GorillaTheater]

Because like you, he has a right to contribute. Just because you don't like his method of advice does not mean you are superior, especially considering your own "history." We're here to help as others are.

 

Maybe if some of you were more concerned with helping the OP as you are trying to fulfill some sort of inner quest, this thread wouldn't be as totally f*cking threadjacked as it's turned out to be.

 

Let's hear what Kidd wants to do and let's try to help him get there.

[reboot]

Some are trying to help, some are trying to influence....

[reboot]

Really?

 

Help: to give or provide what[/url] is necessary to accomplish a task or satisfy a need; contribute strength or means to; render assistance to; cooperate effectively with; aid; assist.

 

Influence: the capacity or power of persons or things to be a compelling force on or produce effects on the actions, behavior, opinions, etc., of others.

[What_Next]

Because like you, he has a right to contribute. Just because you don't like his method of advice does not mean you are superior, especially considering your own "history." We're here to help as others are.

 

How about some common decency? He's been ASKED by the OP to leave this thread alone. It isn't ME that doesn't like his advice you moron; it's the OP.

 

My own "history" has nothing to do with this thread, again are you dense or something? You want to debate or talk about my "history" sure, my threads are right out there in plain sight? Where is your "history"?

 

You are far from trying to help anyone my friend. Your intentions are as clear as your posting style. You are here to lash out and spread your own agenda far and wide. You haven't brought ANYTHING to LS except arguments and pointless banter. Case in point this thread which you and your ilk have threadjacked to the point where Kidd has all but given up on it.

 

For heavens sakes, let Kidd try and work through this as was his intent by starting this thread in the first place. I sure as heck hope the mods take a close look at this thread, even if it means moderating this post as it has completely gone off the rails.

[reboot]

I often forget English is not everyone's first language.

[Linda9999]

I agree with what_next, especially about this:

 

"Lastly, as was suggested, using ignore to filter out these posters is about the only way you can see past their silliness. I have resorted to it, because there is no other choice. Don't let their behavior sour your use of LS. It can be incredibly helpful during these tough times."

[Steadfast]

Excellent. The OMW is behaving in an assertive manner--she had no problem "forcing" him to read the thread. It doesn't sound like she is "negotiating" with him, does it? Perhaps you could start to take a cue from the OMW as to the best way of stopping a spouse's affair.

 

There's a lot more behind the dynamics of an affair than just the affair itself. Even if successful, 'stopping' it doesn't accomplish anything. The issue lies in why it happened in the first place. If history is any indication, the affair partner is a handy tool to use for what's lacking in the cheater. In my experience, even exposure falls well short of letting the cheater go and allowing the affair to stand on its own. They rarely seem to.

 

It is time to take command of your marriage. Stop negotiating, start "forcing," just like the OMW.

 

None of that works...at least, in the long run. No successful marriage holds people that are forced to do anything. Speaking personally, I wouldn't want a wife 'forced' not to cheat, lie or wander. Love doesn't work that way. Love isn't an obligation, it's a choice. We choose only for ourselves.

[Kidd]

Still processing the lack of anonymity in LS now. Hadn't anticipated that the OMW would share my most intimate thoughts with the OM. If anything, I suppose it may be educational to learn how devastating this can be all around.

 

Shared with my wife because I felt like I had stopped being honest and had my own secrets to hide. Any success my W and I have had since dday has been as a result of honesty and communication. It has improved remarkably. We never used to communicate during work and now it is almost constant, we dont avoid difficult conversations, we both have ICs and MC, we've both read multiple books, and discussed them. Last night we discussed her feelings for the OM and how she'll move forward after the job transition that appears likely. One thing she said is that she was wrestling with how much hatred I showed by exposing to the OMW and my FIL. That made me realize that she truly didn't understand my intent since there was nothing hateful about it. Although I've said that the purpose was to save my own M, I didn't think she could understand the pressure to expose without reading this thread. And I don't want secrets, period. If we're going to make it, it has to be with who we really are now, not who we used to be, or would lime to pretend to be.

 

The fact of the matter is that I believe this affair to be ended. She's had every opportunity to end this marriage amicably with me, to separate, and to be with the OM. She accepted the exposure which should have created havoc had the affair been ongoing. And she doesnt resist any transparency no matter how invasive. While I know she made remarkably poor decisions over 13 months that ultimately hurt me, it was never meant to. It was selfish behavior at a bad time in her marriage that became overwhelmingly difficult to stop or admit.

 

The emotional affair? Yes, my biggest concern. The OM filled emotional needs that I wasn't. While I see his intentions as selfish, yes, they have developed a bond which I cannot break. She carries concern for him, for the likelihood that his marriage will end. Even the discovery and exposure has probably bonded them further. They both have committed to ending it and in my view, have taken the steps I required to do so. Yet, the bond remains. I am fearful of the 2-5 years down the road scenario because he hasn't thrown her under the

bus. Damn, that would've been great. And even after the exposure, he's the one helping her move.

 

I'm focused on her commitment. And the last 7 weeks of actions. I will never be able to blindly trust. I've learned (as has she) that it isn't healthy in any case. At some point if you want to have a relationship, you must be vulnerable to the fact that the other person can breach the agreement. If it happens, I will be ok and will move on.

 

For now, I want to see if these two new people can have a new marriage. We have both been broken to some extent from this. A scar will remain and I'll notice it from time to time but it won't be an open wound forever. If you can't tell, I am carrying little anger these days. Many will say it has been rugswept. I believe I've processed it. I went thru it and our household was not a fun place to be. She went thru it and apologized, took responsibility, and asked what she could do everytime.

 

We're taking steps to put her temptation/addiction behind her. I'm not afraid to say I am fearful of the torch that they must carry for one another. I told her to go to him, live with him, and see how the fantasy would play out. She knows the fantasy no longer exists and she's chosen to be with me. I know and believe her intentions. So, what next? I think we just focus on ourselves and each other and do what we can to affair-proof the marriage. She agrees.

 

For a dramatic change of subject, I have yet to ignore any posters. They can ramble if they like. I did have some appreciation for repair's recent posts so Ill just endure the threadjacking. I don't yet know how to PM (do most of this on an iPhone which is a nightmare) but will figure it out. This will help me stay on LS even when my anonymity has now been compromised and I am developing respect for several individual posters here.

[What_Next]

Kidd it seems to me that you have your head on your shoulders and are thinking straight. I read an almost sense of calm in your posts. That is a positive sign for YOU (in this case I am most definitely referring to YOU alone). You need to remember that you need to take care of yourself in all this. Allow yourself time to start to heal as an individual as well. Don't be afraid to stand back a little from the chaos around you.

 

It's quite normal for your wife not to understand your motivation for exposing to OM's wife. In fact kind of expected. In time though many of the things she really belives now will alter. Again all normal.

 

The reason you cannot PM yet is because you are not yet an established member of LS. Once you are then you will be able to PM. My offer to you stands, drop me a PM once you are able and I can relate my own experience with having my wife be on LS.

 

I admire your ability to openly discuss things with your wife, even the very tough topics, my wife and I often failed when we tried. It's taken us months to learn to do that and I can tell you it is key.

 

I wish you nothing but continued successes.