Next steps?

[Untouchable_Fire]

One thing she said is that she was wrestling with how much hatred I showed by exposing to the OMW and my FIL. That made me realize that she truly didn't understand my intent since there was nothing hateful about it. Although I've said that the purpose was to save my own M, I didn't think she could understand the pressure to expose without reading this thread. And I don't want secrets, period. If we're going to make it, it has to be with who we really are now, not who we used to be, or would lime to pretend to be.

 

This comment from her strikes me as very passive aggressive. How did she expect you to feel and act? She is passively forcing you to defend yourself here... making an action that is perfectly reasonable seem crazy and hateful.

 

However, the part that bothers me isn't that she seems focused on her feelings with little regard to yours... What really bothers me is HOW LITTLE SHE KNOWS YOU!

 

Seriously, you've been on this forum for only a short while... and acting out of hate would seem very out of character for you in my opinion. Why doesn't your wife know that?

 

The fact of the matter is that I believe this affair to be ended. She's had every opportunity to end this marriage amicably with me, to separate, and to be with the OM. She accepted the exposure which should have created havoc had the affair been ongoing. And she doesnt resist any transparency no matter how invasive. While I know she made remarkably poor decisions over 13 months that ultimately hurt me, it was never meant to. It was selfish behavior at a bad time in her marriage that became overwhelmingly difficult to stop or admit.

 

Was it ended before you told OMW? Can't say for sure... but I think now that both cheaters are being monitored and held to the fire at once, chances are things are cooling down.

 

Honestly it's going to take her a long time to remove him from her brain.

 

We're taking steps to put her temptation/addiction behind her. I'm not afraid to say I am fearful of the torch that they must carry for one another. I told her to go to him, live with him, and see how the fantasy would play out. She knows the fantasy no longer exists and she's chosen to be with me. I know and believe her intentions. So, what next? I think we just focus on ourselves and each other and do what we can to affair-proof the marriage. She agrees.

 

Just give it some time... She may decide to bolt.... or you may start getting apathetic.

 

For the moment your both going in the right direction. Just take it one day... one step at a time. Don't put expectations on the future. It will create artificial pressures!

[RepairMinded]

One thing she said is that she was wrestling with how much hatred I showed by exposing to the OMW and my FIL. That made me realize that she truly didn't understand my intent since there was nothing hateful about it.

It's called "blame shifting." That's when the unfaithful spouse says or does something manipulative implying that somehow the betrayed spouse is "at fault" for the consequences of the unfaithful spouse's infidelity.

 

Kidd's wife doesn't want the affair exposed because she still wants to protect the OM (and her image of herself, as well). She falsely called kidd a "hater" to try to send him on a guilt trip. Perhaps she is still so addled that she actually believes what she said, maybe a combination of motives on her part.

 

It is very very common for the cheating spouse to cast false aspersions and aspire improper motivations to a betrayed spouse who is taking reasonable steps to kill the affair and save the marriage.

 

Kidd wants to kill the affair and save the marriage; but right now all kidd's spouse can see is the death of the affair and the loss of the relationship with the OM.

[RepairMinded]

Exactly, you can't force a cheater to stop what they're doing.

 

No, you can't force a cheater to stop, which is why I put the word "force" in quotes, it's figurative.

 

Just like OMW couldn't really "force" the OM to read kidd's thread--all she could do is impose a very firm consequence of what actions she would take if OM refused to read it.

 

In many ways cheaters have attitudes much like little kids who stole cookies from the cookie jar and then got caught. Obviously the entire situation is much more serious. But the stereotype is hearing the cookie jar break, then the parent goes into the kitchen, sees the broken jar on the floor, the child has a half eaten cookie in his hand, the cabinet door is open, there are cookie crumbs all over the child's mouth...

 

"Why did you steal the cookie when I told you no cookies before supper?"

 

"I didn't steal the cookie Mommy!"

 

"I see crumbs on your face, you were just eating it. There's even a cookie in your hand."

 

"NO I DIDN'T! I did not eat a cookie!"

 

"And you broke the jar, too."

 

"No I DIDN'T! It must have been...it must have been...little sister who did it!"

 

"But honey little sister has been over at her friend's house all afternoon."

 

"Well...well...maybe a burglar did it. Or maybe YOU did it Mommy."

 

"Honey it wasn't me who stole the cookie and broke the cookie jar."

 

(Child's tears start to flow) "Mommy you HATE me! Why do you HATE me! Why don't you LOVE me!"

 

"Honey you know I love you but you disobeyed the rules and made a big mess."

 

"Mommy I HATE you. I HATE all your rules! Why CAN'T I have a stupid cookie if I want one????"

 

"Honey you know we have rules in our house and if you eat cookies before dinner it will spoil your dinner. Also you know if you try to get the cookie jar it's too high up for you and you might drop it. You know these rules are for your own good."

 

"I HATE you. I HATE your rules. You don't love me anymore. You NEVER loved me!" (Many many tears...)

 

"Honey you are getting too upset and you are saying things that are silly and are not true. You know I love you and have always loved you. But if you can't control yourself you will have to go to your room."

 

"I don't WANT to go to my room! You can't MAKE me! You HATE me! You love little sister BETTER!" (tantrum ensues)

 

******

 

Not to trivialize at all what an affair is nor the damage it does, it's sexual and emotional betrayal not just stealing a cookie, but it's a way to try to contextualize the cheater's psychological attitude. Unfortunately sometimes the cheater is not simply like the little child who hasn't yet quite learned why the rules are necessary; sometimes it's more like the child is just a "bad seed," because by adult hood, the "child" inside has had PLENTY of time to learn right from wrong.

 

No you can't really "control" a cheater but you can set firm boundaries about what you are willing to tolerate and what actions you will take in response to your boundaries being violated. You can't always take the figurative "cookie jar" away from an adult who insists on breaking the rules and gorging herself with cookies, but you sure as heck can stop sharing YOUR cookies with her.

[RepairMinded]

On top of that I would've opened up a "can of whup ass" on you that would've left you permanently hobbled in some way, regardless if I did some jail time for it

 

Caution: No cheater or their affair partner is worth going to jail for. Not even close. There is at least one poster at Love Shack (don't know his name off hand) who claims to have done hard prison time for actually having done the "whup ass" thing and I don't think it's something he would do over again if he had the chance.

[Kidd]

Dale, don't ever stop posting on my threads. No matter how I might be patient or forgiving and that might be honorable or whatever, I needed a wake-up call. Your posts are a part of me that I repressed. That realization was a huge part of what made me realize that I was disrespecting myself by protecting them (their jobs and his M) while I wasn't convinced that the affair had ended. The realization of sacrificing myself (and even the OMW) was unhealthy at that point and I had to hear it. That's drove me to expose to OMW and if my M truly recovers, it was that single act that allowed me to truly believe that the affair had ended. Her accepting reaction showed me that it must have stopped because if it hadn't stopped, that act would have been me knocking down her entire house of cards. But to immediately accept it as a consequence of her actions, and then within the same conversation accept further transparency, AND to volunteer additional steps to try to convince me not to separate...I was able to finally believe that there was no house of cards anymore. Without your viewpoint, I may never have exposed to OMW, and my wife never would have had the chance to react appropriately, and I would still be obsessing over every work shift.

 

On a personal note, while your posts were tough to read, offensive was the wrong word to use. They were certainly colorful, direct, and some painted a very clear picture of what might have been going on at the boss's desk (dude, they deleted pretty much all of the early ones) but you were looking out for my interests the whole time. I'm starting to find some real peace in my own situation. Your path is different (and that's fine) but I hope you find some peace as well. Being really pissed just leaves you walking around being really pissed. Gotta do it but I hope I get to see the next phase for you, too.

[Kidd]

UF, good comments on the hateful bit. To give some context, this was the day after I had told OMW and my wife's father and it was pretty much our first chance to discuss it at length and we were on the way in the car to have dinner with her parents and I was talking quite a bit about honesty. I think she gave me the unprocessed version of what was up with her and I think she knows that I want reality, not the PC version. Glad she said it. From some further conversation, she wishes that I had not given such a full-blown description to the OMW on the first sitting. I think she conceives that if I had left out some painful details, perhaps the OMW may have been willing to reconcile with OM. She somehow thinks I could have initially told her less, let her process it more slowly or something. The idea is that by laying it all out at once, I must've been trying to do more than just be honest, I was trying to wreck his marriage. To be specific, I think it was sharing that they had discussed a 3-some was extra damaging. I had debated about sharing this detail (figured only if she asked for more info) but when the OMW was looking at the papers I had brought, it couldn't be hidden and I wasn't going to somehow trickle-truth her. My wife quickly said that she expected to process through that and we were still going to be ok. I think it was a natural reaction and that she's probably already looking at it differently. She hasn't yet had time to read these posts and I'm sure that will provide clarity. She knows it's not my character so I think that's why she mentioned she was struggling with it. Passive-aggressive still a possibility? Sure.

 

And yes, I need to give everything some time. The events of the last three months are more than I would expect to process in a lifetime. I think we're already slowing down and taking things one day at a time. I'm glad to see that some of the pressure is off and that we're proceeding with a lot of care and consideration for one another.

 

RM, I'm short on time but I'll get to your stuff today. Valuing your posts a lot more lately. Glad you adapted your approach.

 

What's Next, really grateful for you. Been here with me since it started and you're both supportive and direct.

[RepairMinded]

I think she conceives that if I had left out some painful details, perhaps the OMW may have been willing to reconcile with OM.

Very typical thought process of a woman in your wife's position. Reconciliation by OMW with less than the full truth would obviously be a false reconciliation.

 

And, just because the OMW has dropped the divorce bomb does NOT mean reconciliation between OMW & OM is impossible down the road. From filing to finality divorces take months or even years.

 

The idea is that by laying it all out at once, I must've been trying to do more than just be honest, I was trying to wreck his marriage.

Also very typical--blame-shifting by your wife. The response to such a comment is to simply state: "If you or the OM were worried about not wrecking his marriage you would not had an affair with each other."

 

To be specific, I think it was sharing that they had discussed a 3-some was extra damaging.

If nothing else tells you that your wife has completely lost any sense of appropriate boundaries in her relationships, this should. All of a sudden it's O.K. with your wife not just to have an affair, but to seriously contemplate a 3-some?

 

She hasn't yet had time to read these posts and I'm sure that will provide clarity. She knows it's not my character so I think that's why she mentioned she was struggling with it.

Your character is not what is at issue here, at all, and she needs to stop trying to put you on the defensive about any of this stuff. Immediately. Accept nothing less. This is ALL on her. It's your wife's character that has proven to have very serious flaws and if she's not willing to own up to her 100% responsibility, and stop trying to blame and guilt you, you need to think about what consequences you will impose in response. Edited June 25, 2011 by RepairMinded

[RepairMinded]

Honestly Kidd, the more I read and think about your wife's attitude, and the situation, I have a really hard time believing that this is the first time she's ever cheated on you.

 

Maybe not a prior long term affair, maybe not even full blown sex, but...3-somes??? And all the blame-shifting....

 

You really need to consider having your wife take a polygraph test to try to determine if this is the only time she's cheated on you, physically or emotionally.

 

If she refuses the test or even shows any reluctance to take it, you'll have your answer right there. If she agrees, be sure to follow through and actually have her take one (you select the polygrapher and the test conditions, not your wife), be sure to follow through, just so she knows it's not a bluff.

[RepairMinded]

RM, I'm short on time but I'll get to your stuff today. Valuing your posts a lot more lately. Glad you adapted your approach.

 

Thank you, but I don't think I've really adapted my approach. Maybe your perspective is changing.

[What_Next]

You really need to consider having your wife take a polygraph test to try to determine if this is the only time she's cheated on you, physically or emotionally.

 

You have every right to give your own advice RepairMinded, but I think this is not going to happen for a variety of reasons.

 

I am not in total disagreement with your statement regarding his wife possibly cheating before.

[Kidd]

Have no faith in polygraphs. Wouldn't go there.

 

At this point, no one part of the affair is worse than another anymore. It all hurt immeasurably. I've probably compartmentalized it all since I've been pretty task-oriented lately, and focused on actions rather than feelings.

 

I admit that anything is possible. Taking some time to reflect and see where this takes us. My eyes are wide open. If this is a serial cheater scenario, I'll eventually know and move on. I still believe it's possible to do this once and never again. I once cheated on her back some 15 years ago when we were dating. One night with an old flame and I was immediately busted; it wasn't planned and I'm not much of a liar. I was devastated, she forgave me, said she would never tolerate it again, said she wouldn't hold it over my head forever and would never bring it up again, and never did. I think the grace she showed in that situation has influenced me in this one. I never thought about cheating again. I am an example that you can cheat once, reconcile, and never do it again. This situation is apples and oranges but I still think the concept rings true. I see how this situation unfolded, she has shared far more than what I knew, and I believe she can be redeemed from it. Time will tell.

[Mz. Pixie]

You write all of this because you don't like someone else's viewpoint.

 

Yet you write this.

 

Talk about hypocrisy.

 

Kidd I hope you find what you're looking for, but we cannot express enough on the fact that staying at the expense of your sanity is not a good thing.

 

Nope. At what point did you not see that I said it was his choice to decide to do whatever he wanted to do? Just as it is Kidd's choice?

 

How is that being a hypocrite? There are lots of people at LS that I may not necessarily have agreed with over the years but JMK is the first that I have ever blocked. The first.

[Mz. Pixie]

Pixie if you are going to be counseling people that being honest is ever a bad strategy you need to be upfront about your perspective. The fallout you got from internet posting in your own situation was evidently because you were the WS:

 

 

 

 

 

23rd October 2007, 9:31 AM #36

 

Mz. Pixie

Established Member

 

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: The South

Posts: 4,283

 

I didn't tell because the affair was over and I was trying to work on the marriage. I truly didn't want him to carry that hurt- I thought since I was the one who cheated then I should be the one to hold the shame and the guilt- not him.

__________________

Sweetie, it's all true!

 

Honey-you can quote all of my posts if you want to-won't bother me one bit. It's all here on LS for other's to read. I have helped plenty of people here-as well as on Marriage Builders and on other forums-and in real life. What have you done for others trying to recover??

 

I am not trying to hide who I am. You can crow to the rooftop that I am a cheater. I am not a cheater- I was a cheater. Big difference. I have a unique perspective into the mind of a wayward wife-one that many are not willing to offer up because of the venom that some of you are spewing. You are not the first to spew it at me and you won't be the last. Not coming here for you- I am here to help people like Kidd. If he wants my help.

 

You or your minions will not run me off. I was here before you came and I will be here after you are gone-been there and done that.

 

I am not defending her-saying she was right-or any of that so I am not sure what your problem is.

 

I have also seen people post on MB and their divorcing spouses dig up their threads and use against them in court to prove that they are unstable in trying to get custody of their children. Would you like for me to share that person's email address with you so that seems credible to you? Because I can.

 

When you have that kind of experience in dealing with others situations with infidelity then we'll compare notes. Until then back off.

[Untouchable_Fire]

UF, good comments on the hateful bit. To give some context, this was the day after I had told OMW and my wife's father and it was pretty much our first chance to discuss it at length and we were on the way in the car to have dinner with her parents and I was talking quite a bit about honesty. I think she gave me the unprocessed version of what was up with her and I think she knows that I want reality, not the PC version. Glad she said it. From some further conversation, she wishes that I had not given such a full-blown description to the OMW on the first sitting. I think she conceives that if I had left out some painful details, perhaps the OMW may have been willing to reconcile with OM. She somehow thinks I could have initially told her less, let her process it more slowly or something. The idea is that by laying it all out at once, I must've been trying to do more than just be honest, I was trying to wreck his marriage. To be specific, I think it was sharing that they had discussed a 3-some was extra damaging. I had debated about sharing this detail (figured only if she asked for more info) but when the OMW was looking at the papers I had brought, it couldn't be hidden and I wasn't going to somehow trickle-truth her. My wife quickly said that she expected to process through that and we were still going to be ok. I think it was a natural reaction and that she's probably already looking at it differently. She hasn't yet had time to read these posts and I'm sure that will provide clarity. She knows it's not my character so I think that's why she mentioned she was struggling with it. Passive-aggressive still a possibility? Sure.

 

When you do something terrible to another person, most people have to rationalize it some way. There is a good chance that leading up to and during the affair your wife spent a large amount of time demonizing you in her head. That doesn't just go away in 1 day. If the affair lasted 3 months, give it 6 months for the fantasy to slowly fade into reality.

 

You can see how this works a bit internally as when you revealed she was 100% focused on how your actions would affect OM, and relatively thoughtless about how you may be feeling. In fact her first assumption is that you were doing this because you are a mean and spiteful person.

 

She may be with you... but that doesn't mean she is really with you. Whatever wall of resentment, anger, or petty wrongs, she has built against you will need to come down. That means you will need to change some things. Clean the house more, spend more time with the kids, take her on dates... whatever it is. Sit her down and ask her about it.

 

You are still reading recovery books so these are things you should already know and be doing.

 

And yes, I need to give everything some time. The events of the last three months are more than I would expect to process in a lifetime. I think we're already slowing down and taking things one day at a time. I'm glad to see that some of the pressure is off and that we're proceeding with a lot of care and consideration for one another.

RM, I'm short on time but I'll get to your stuff today. Valuing your posts a lot more lately. Glad you adapted your approach.

What's Next, really grateful for you. Been here with me since it started and you're both supportive and direct.

 

Last point to consider. It will not be right away... but once things are recovered and back to whatever your new normal is... watch yourself.

 

The first time you are at your childs sporting event without your wife and some hot mom gives you the look... you will respond different than you would have 4 months ago.

 

So, just keep that in mind moving forward... temptation for you is now 100 times stronger than it may have ever been before. One of the strongest men I've ever known fell into an affair that way. Funny thing is that his wife wasn't willing to reconcile even though he had just 3 years before that.

[RepairMinded]

I once cheated on her back some 15 years ago when we were dating. One night with an old flame and I was immediately busted; it wasn't planned and I'm not much of a liar. I was devastated, she forgave me, said she would never tolerate it again, said she wouldn't hold it over my head forever and would never bring it up again, and never did.

 

Actually she never forgave you.

 

This is the payback.

[RepairMinded]

Honey-you can quote all of my posts if you want to-won't bother me one bit.

 

O.K. good.

 

It's all here on LS for other's to read.

 

True.

 

 

I have helped plenty of people here-as well as on Marriage Builders and on other forums-and in real life. What have you done for others trying to recover??

 

Participating in the discussion.

 

I am not trying to hide who I am.

 

O.K.

 

 

You can crow to the rooftop that I am a cheater.

 

No need to. It's been disclosed.

 

 

I am not a cheater- I was a cheater. Big difference.

 

You're free to split hairs if you like.

 

 

I have a unique perspective into the mind of a wayward wife-one that many are not willing to offer up because of the venom that some of you are spewing.

 

But you didn't explain previously, in this thread, where your unique perspective was derived from.

 

 

You are not the first to spew it at me and you won't be the last.

 

I simply quoted one of your posts in a prior thread which disclosed your background as a former cheater. Thus indicating where you get your perspective from. But they're your own words. Not my "venom."

 

It's interesting your response to the truthful disclosure of your background in this thread is to get defensive and accusatory. (Much like kidd's wife's reaction to the disclosure to the OMW.)

 

Not coming here for you- I am here to help people like Kidd. If he wants my help.

 

I'm sure you can provide great insight into the mind of the cheating wife--as you have indicated--and indeed you have probably done so already in this thread.

 

 

You or your minions will not run me off. I was here before you came and I will be here after you are gone-been there and done that.

 

No one's trying to "run you off."

 

 

I am not defending her-saying she was right-or any of that so I am not sure what your problem is.

 

I don't have a problem.

 

 

I have also seen people post on MB and their divorcing spouses dig up their threads and use against them in court to prove that they are unstable in trying to get custody of their children.

 

Anyone who is concerned about such things shouldn't post on a public message board discussion forum.

 

 

Would you like for me to share that person's email address with you so that seems credible to you? Because I can.

 

Actually it seems vindictive not credible to me. You have no right to offer to hand out the e-mail of someone else you know from a different message board unless they give you permission to do so, which they obviously didn't.

 

When you have that kind of experience in dealing with others situations with infidelity then we'll compare notes. Until then back off.

 

No thanks.

[RepairMinded]

I am an example that you can cheat once, reconcile, and never do it again.

 

Your relationship before you cheated, 15 years ago, was like a fine porcelain vase.

 

When you cheated on your (now) wife--even just once--it was as if you threw the vase to the ground, shattering it. That one night of stupidity completely undermined your relationship, both at the time (obviously) and going forward.

 

Yes you put things back together but that's like putting the pieces of the porcelain vase back together with crazy glue.

 

This has gotten to be a pretty long and involved thread, and you've made a lot of pretty detailed posts in it. But I don't recall you mentioning previously that you cheated on her first. Not that that would in any way "justify" her cheating on you 15 years later.

 

But sometimes the damage cheating does, can't be repaired properly. The cracks can be glued together and maybe papered over to some extent.

 

It is simply shocking that you would throw in the fact that you cheated first, in the formative state of your relationship, almost as an "aside."

 

If you don't think what you did hasn't been fermenting and souring inside of your wife for all this time....maybe even beyond her conscious perception....then you have something else to talk about with her.

 

I don't think she ever really forgave you. I think she buried it and stuffed it and shoved it way down.

 

But if you don't think you cut her heart right out of her chest when you did that....well, now I hope you know better.

 

Again, it doesn't justify at all what she did--but it puts your entire relationship in a completely different perspective.

[Kidd]

Rm- you could be right. Perhaps I was never forgiven. Perhaps it justified 45 unknown affairs since we've been married. Maybe my children are not my own. Not sure what this conjecture accomplishes.

 

I had mentioned my infidelity in a very early post that didn't make it on LS. Post was lost as I tried to log back in. Decided not to retype it all and moved on. Wasn't trying to hide it but to me it was an explanation at the time for why I would even consider reconciling. Such a long time ago that it happened. Hope it hasn't been carried with her all these years. Something for us to talk about.

[Kidd]

Uf, thanks for your insight. Before I knew about the A and she had thought about S, she told me what had made her unhappy for the prior 2 years (lack of motivation, unhappiness with my job, cigarette smoking, unhealthy behaviors, etc). I dont think she demonized me but felt she had done what she could to influence me to change and it wasnt happening. She checked out of the M about the same time she started workin with OM. I quickly did a 180, implemented changes, blamed myself and then found out it wasn't about me. That said, I've been looking forward to moving past the affair and figuring out how we do meet each others' needs. After dday, she immediately stopped blaming me and said I had been fixing everything she ever might have put on such a list. I want to get back to this but keep getting dragged into hypothetical conversations about how my wife was probably a slut for our entire marriage.

 

As for revenge affairs, I was very surprised with myself suddenly looking at other women with a whole new perspective. Very disconcerting. While I appreciate an attractive woman, I have only had eyes for my wife for a really long time. I wouldn't expect we'd survive another affair by either of us so I've been able to make a very conscious decision to stop any consideration of that option. Otherwise, I want us both to immediately run to each other when presented with any tempting situation. She agreed and I went so far as to promise (yesterday, I think) that I am in this with her, will make changes to meet her needs, and went so far as to promise I would not have a revenge affair.

[Kidd]

Thanks Dale. I have a feeling my W is going to be hurt by my discussion of this on here so it will be the last time I entertain discussion on it. Yes, my W and I had discussed it before. She has the same natural curiosity of most women, I think. As most men, I'm curious, too but we've never taken steps. When I asked (because it really hurt that she almost did this), she said that they had discussed each other's interests but ultimately going that far really was a too much of huge decision and she couldn't do it because it was something we had discussed together. A convenient response to be sure but about the only one I could have accepted. It felt good that at least something had been reserved for us although I'm not sure I'll want to bring a third person back into our marriage anytime soon. I would ask that this subject now be considered taboo on this board. This includes you, repair minded. If you cannot respect that request, I will be forced to resort to only PMs and you'll have ruined my LS experience. I wish you would just leave me alone entirely.

[What_Next]

This includes you, repair minded. If you cannot respect that request, I will be forced to resort to only PMs and you'll have ruined my LS experience. I wish you would just leave me alone entirely.

 

For heavens sake people can you not listen to what this poster has asked? Give it a rest and leave this poster be. God I wish the moderators would do something about this nonsense.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I want to get back to this but keep getting dragged into hypothetical conversations about how my wife was probably a slut for our entire marriage.

 

Yes... maybe she was hooking up with Osama Bin Ladin while you were out getting ice cream for the kids. They probably planned 9/11 together. Ugh... ignore the crazy "what if's" and focus on the topics that are pressing.

 

The focus should be on communication followed by changes in behavior.

 

Create a list of pre-affair behaviors that need to change. Look at what has changed... is it a positive or negative change? What has not changed? Get her to fix it. Then have her do the same for you. A written plan of action is very helpful for communicating expectations and needs.

[Mz. Pixie]

. You have no right to offer to hand out the e-mail of someone else you know from a different message board unless they give you permission to do so, which they obviously didn't.

 

 

 

.

 

How would you know if they did or did not??

 

Kidd- back to your marriage-what constructive can we offer you?

[Kidd]

Thanks. I really need to do stuff like you've listed rather than listening to the haters. Get back to you when I have more time, too. Thanks again.

[Queuekfinna]

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