Next steps?

[Kidd]

Yes, I am back. I will ignore as needed.

 

I have limited time but so I'll be back to update later. Short story, we're doing well.

[Steadfast]

...because the last few pages have been 6 other posters "picking" with RM and Mr.Harris because they don't like their views on cheating.

 

I'll assume I was one of those 'picking' on RM. That's settled as (I assume, if the other two stick around) I'll personally agree to disagree with you too.

 

My wife cheated JMK and I divorced her. Period. After 17 years of marriage and raising four kids. Don't tell me about my views on cheating...her actions and the results of them wrecked my life and hurt my kids. But YOU....RM and Harris...you'll straighten me out, right? Speak for me? Twist my words? Encourage the fight then sit back in wonder and amazement?

 

Speaking personally, it isn't your views on cheating that I see as the problem, it's your willingness to harm, poke, twist and contrive for your own sick entertainment. You love trouble. You love seeing people suffer.

 

I have no use for any of you. This is my last comment addressing it...no matter how you respond. You'll be gone soon; folks here are wise to your game. You don't help anyone...getting off on people's suffering makes you as bad as any cheater.

 

Kidd, Owl, W_N...sorry for taking the thread back down. I've said my piece.

[silktricks]

Yes, I am back. I will ignore as needed.

 

I have limited time but so I'll be back to update later. Short story, we're doing well.

 

Really good to hear. Please do keep us posted. Do you have PM privileges yet? If so, you can PM as well. Owl gives REALLY good advice and is usually spot on with things he says.

[John Michael Kane]

I'll assume I was one of those 'picking' on RM. That's settled as (I assume, if the other two stick around) I'll personally agree to disagree with you too.

 

My wife cheated JMK and I divorced her. Period. After 17 years of marriage and raising four kids. Don't tell me about my views on cheating...her actions and the results of them wrecked my life and hurt my kids. But YOU....RM and Harris...you'll straighten me out, right? Speak for me? Twist my words? Encourage the fight then sit back in wonder and amazement?

 

You're accusing me of twisting your words and I have never done that. If I have I'm sorry.

 

Speaking personally, it isn't your views on cheating that I see as the problem, it's your willingness to harm, poke, twist and contrive for your own sick entertainment. You love trouble. You love seeing people suffer.

 

Now see that's where you're honestly wrong. I don't post here to "harm," (and really nobody can be harmed over something said on an internet board) I post here because I want to advice those in need of help, and because I have a right to post here just as you and everyone else.

 

I have no use for any of you.

 

Okay?

 

This is my last comment addressing it...no matter how you respond. You'll be gone soon; folks here are wise to your game. You don't help anyone...getting off on people's suffering makes you as bad as any cheater.

 

Wrong again. My view doesn't make me as bad as cheaters, period. If you don't like my view, that's okay. I'm not going to go into a hissy fit about it.

[What_Next]

Yes, I am back. I will ignore as needed.

 

I have limited time but so I'll be back to update later. Short story, we're doing well.

 

Smart move, after a while the three headed hydra will get bored and go elsewhere. .

 

Happy to hear things are going well. Keep at it.

[Kidd]

Ok. Specifics...

 

OMW continues to work on the transfers. He may still be fearful I'll expose at work or perhaps he's just doing the right thing in spite of his impending D. He discussed a specific swap for my W with his boss and while the boss was receptive, it looks more like the OM will move sooner (perhaps in the next two weeks). My Ws move would be more like a month.

 

W and I have vacations planned for almost the entire month of July. Spending a week with my family. W has the courage to face the music even though most of my family knows. My family has been supportive of me without slamming her and they love her regardless. W and I also have about 5 days at a beachhouse planned with a bunch of her friends without the kids. Hope that proves to be good bonding time. Also have another week at the same beachhouse planned with my inlaws, us and the kids.

 

W has adjusted her schedule to minimize contact with OM as much as possible. Even if she stays for the full month, they have only a handful of days with overlapping shifts and then NC will be in place. Will ask her to do a letter, I think.

 

Otherwise moving forward with SAA concepts. She wants to do the Emotional Needs questionairre (asked me to make photocopies before we leave for vacation) and I've been interested in making our personal lists.

 

We've had some difficult conversations but always do it with care. I had an afternoon where I had begun to question if my children were my own. These things just make you question everything and I was wondering if there had been other affairs. While I now truly believe that the affair ended on dday (which addresses the present), I found I had new doubts about our past (and about the future considering the frequency of those that return to the OM sometimes years later). She was pretty devastated about the kids. I got past the paranoia quickly. She's consistently said this was her first and only affair and I had rid myself of the dark thoughts before she had to reaffirm for me (which she did, of course). It just sucked that this honest conversation that needed to happen set us back a few steps. It's hard for her to hear that level of stress when she is trying so hard no to do one more hurtful thing. She feels like everything she is doing about 1% of what I need. But there isn't one word of me getting over it more quickly. She takes the pain onto herself and digests it, apologizes, and we talk next steps. I find it truly remarkable and so I wrestle with how much honesty is required. I'm less concerned with my pain now (hell, I can handle anything now) and more concerned about we can heal together. Anyway, long enough post for now.

[Kidd]

Oh, and yes, we continue to see our MC. Put him thru the wringer last week when I announced that I had told OMW and was insistent that separation needed to happen. He scrambled and tried to find a third option besides S and her quitting the job. Ultimately I was convinced the affair was over after her positive reactions to me telling the OMW and my FIL and decided to stay while she took more steps to separate herself from OM. MC will be happy to know he's not out of a job. Have a feeling he'll step up his game. Previous it was mostly about how I should look at things differently. That didn't work.

 

We both have ICs. She got one when she started the A. I got one after dday but usually am not available on the 2 days that she is. Doesn't do much for me. I need more than a once a week data dump. LS and family fill in the blanks.

 

Love the ignore feature. Sure they'll soon start quoting each other in their own little 3-way.

[reboot]

Love the ignore feature. Sure they'll soon start quoting each other in their own little 3-way.

 

Hahaha. There's a mental image of those guys I didn't need.

 

:D:D

[What_Next]

I need more than a once a week data dump. LS and family fill in the blanks.

 

Love the ignore feature. Sure they'll soon start quoting each other in their own little 3-way.

 

Point #1, very true and if used properly this place can help you along the way. It is often useful just to bounce your thoughts and feeling off of others with no vested interest.

 

Point #2, I have resorted to using it as well, no other choice, still annoying that their drivel appears when someone quotes it, but I just don't read it anymore. Don't let them run you off Kidd, there are those here that want to listen and give their opinions and advice in hopes of helping you through this. The others, well... enough said.

[reboot]

And a forth head appears.

[What_Next]

Kriss, 'professional' therapy is NOT the be all and end all. In fact some therapists can be downright awful. In fact I believe a place like LS can most definitely be a substitute for it. That is my belief.

 

Personally I believe family SHOULD NOT be involved in martial issues at all. I do not believe involving family is wise period. Leave them out of it.

[Spark1111]

I found LS invaluable when I agreed to reconcile with my fWS.

 

The advice you receive from others is very tainted by their own perceptions of what they would do: Namely, dump him....or from family, Stay at all costs, because they could not bear the pain of a long-term marital break-up.

 

There was no other place to speak with people who had been through exactly what I had been through, who were trying to reconcile...succesfully.

 

Even the therapists, while good for some issues, were not so good for infidelity.

 

When I had more than one suggest I needed to get over it, waaaaay before I was ready to, I knew at that point I knew more about HOW to heal than they did.

 

The MCs? All focused on my spouse to almost the exclusion of me! I had to wait, and wait, and wait while they established trust with my fWS, as if they recognized immediately he was the more broken of the two us.

 

The most important thing we did? Spent time together, talking, talking, talking about it and then shelving the talk to have some fun together building a new relationship with each other.

 

After a couple of months, I did not discuss it with family or friends as I saw it caused them too much uncertainty, or too much pain.

 

LS became invaluable at that point, as the rollercoaster was well underway and I doubted I would have the courage to survive it.

 

Having people, even on an anonymous internet site, tell me what I was experiencing was completely normal, and listening to me vent about it all, was hugely therapeutic.

 

When it became too painful, I took a LS break.

 

I hope it proves to be all those things for you too, Kidd.

[Kidd]

I have no problem with dissenting opinions. Some people just go too far in an attempt to directly influence a R.

 

As for her IC, I have had similar concerns. That said, I know the IC was "glad" that the A was discovered so that my W could work on her M. My W had gone to try to figure out why her career and A seemed more valuable to her than her M. Regardless, she loves her IC and I don't see her making a change there. And I don't need to demand it. I have discussed the potential need for a new MC. We'll see.

 

As for professional counseling in general, short of getting someone truly gifted, they're human like everyone else. I have some amazing family and their support and suggestions have been invaluable. I'm getting to know my way around this subject so my own study is helpful. I use LS as a place to gain a wide variety of opinions from people who have actually suffered the same situation as my own. Considering I get feedbackon my immediate issues much more than once per week, it does more for me. It's not like I just follow everyone's lead, I take an amalgam of opinions, see if I think it applies to my actual situation, and use that info to make what I think is a solid decision. I wouldn't blindly follow an IC either. Again, they're just one person that meets with me infrequently.

 

As far as vacation is concerned, yes, we'd both prefer time to ourselves. We'll do some of that there. But I've also been isolated from her work life and friends and this is one of many efforts to bring our lives closer together. It was one of the problems in the M. I've gotten to know several of them now so I am more than just her husband. No one knew of the A. My W recently came clean with her best friend who will be on the trip. She felt similarly betrayed in some respects but they've made good. Could my W be lying? Sure, but she's not.

[Spark1111]

Absolutely important and necessary to be seen and felt as a strong couple in the workplace.

 

My H's affair was with a co-worker. I know the drill.

 

He visits me at the workplace or I him whenever possible; not out of any sense of snooping, but to share each other's lives more fully.

 

Great plan.

[Steadfast]

Kriss, 'professional' therapy is NOT the be all and end all. In fact some therapists can be downright awful. In fact I believe a place like LS can most definitely be a substitute for it. That is my belief.

 

Personally I believe family SHOULD NOT be involved in martial issues at all. I do not believe involving family is wise period. Leave them out of it.

 

My thoughts and findings concur. In many cases, the practical advice found here from posters in different phases of healing do far more good than a paid professional. Like anything else, when you mix in money you mix in agenda.

 

I AM NOT a fan of the professional counseling scene. In most cases I advise those insisting therapy to find a non-denominational church for help. This is usually based in practicality with a fundamental moral theme.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Steadfast

[silktricks]

As for professional counseling in general, short of getting someone truly gifted, they're human like everyone else.

Yeah, I've had both outstandingly wonderful and outstandingly terrible. The biggest problem I have with MC is that sometimes they seem to "bond" with one of the two people - which makes everything pretty well skewed. As long as you keep in mind that it is, after all, your life and you can take or leave their advice I find counseling to be valuable.

 

As far as vacation is concerned, yes, we'd both prefer time to ourselves. We'll do some of that there. But I've also been isolated from her work life and friends and this is one of many efforts to bring our lives closer together. It was one of the problems in the M. I've gotten to know several of them now so I am more than just her husband. No one knew of the A. My W recently came clean with her best friend who will be on the trip. She felt similarly betrayed in some respects but they've made good. Could my W be lying? Sure, but she's not.

Very good idea. leaving too separate of lives will destroy a relationship.

 

It really sounds like you are doing well. There will still be speed-bumps in the road, so don't get all complacent that the hard work is all over cuz things can come up unexpectedly at times. But you two seem to be doing the right stuff to be able to put this incident behind you.

[Steadfast]

Work is work, socialize if you want, and like the people that your spouse works with, but if you need to "prove" something about your relationship to the people you work with...something is not right.

 

Great point, and one that's very relevant to not only this conversation, but society in general. Unfounded or not, a nagging suspicion will fester and grow. Is that any way to live? is that the best we can do? I think not.

 

OP, until your wife breaks ALL contact with the OM, she's open to more misdeeds. Then again, she may be anyway. Cheating is a slippery slope...

 

Great post Kriss-

[Kidd]

Ok Kriss, I'll bite. Something strangely familiar when I compare your style to that of a hydra I recently fought off. Hmm.

 

I would find it strange indeed if the party I'm invited to turns out to be a swingers party. And there's me with no condoms. Dang.

 

My W's best friend and her husband rent the house. We have vacationed with them before; they're a nice couple. There is a substantial amount of drinking along with a beer Olympics and so forth. If my W and I have a concern, it's adding alcohol to some inadvertently hurt feelings during the trip. We've discussed that we need to establish boundaries and come to agreement on handling stress if it occurs. Some of the attendees will be subordinates of my W. The OM certainly will not be coming. He's in virtual NC with her except work related discussions at work. If you don't want to believe that, I respect your opinion but you will get nowhere with me. There would be severe consequences for him.

 

We were invited as a couple, my friends were not excluded.

 

If anything my W would be nervous about attending because I could have an episode at any time and expose her affair to her team. If anything, this is a risk for her and yet still does it for the long term betterment of the marriage.

 

I can understand steps to establish transparency, monitoring how and where she spends her time and so forth but I'm gonna like, you know, be there. What do you seriously think is going to happen?

 

On a side note, at what point do you remove the surgically implanted, GPS, voice activated digital HD video recording tracking device? Since I don't have one of those, it appears I may at some point have to trust that she is committed to the marriage. If it can never be restored (apparently even when she's in my presence), what kind of marriage is it? How could the fWS ever love a person that constantly has to monitor and control every action in fear of a repeat. I will take steps to trust but verify but eventually open myself to the real risk that it could happen again. Of course, there's that risk with anyone with whom you have an exclusive agreement. They could break it. I think many would do so given the right (or terribly wrong) circumstances. You can't ultimately control anyone and who wants that marriage anyway? If my trust is taken advantage of, I'll move on. If anyone thinks they're safe because their spouse hasn't cheated, well, there's a few stories out there to show otherwise. Maybe everybody should go out and get one of those devices. If my M was vulnerable, I think anyone's is. If anything, my M is safer now because my W has learned a terrible lesson for which she will pay for a lifetime (via herself).

[Spark1111]

Actually your/your spouses' personal lives are (in general) nobody in the workplace's business.

 

Of course not! But being a present and viable presence helps establish boundaries with others, don't you think? We both spent waaaaay too much time at the office and the job, and either out of sheer exhaustion or overwhelming workplace stress, grew apart.

 

Guess what? You will share that with someone close to you. That is how workplace affairs start....and they are becoming more common.

 

 

 

Your personal lives are none of the co-worker's business. People who "share" too much of their personal lives with co-workers can get emotionally attached and affairs can start from there.

 

 

 

 

 

Other than perhaps going out for lunch or an office party, how do you actually visit a spouse (or anyone) who is on the job? It interferes with being able to work to have relatives dropping in.

 

I will take a vacation day and visit the city he works in. Meet for lunch, meet the co-workers, dinner or a show afterwords. He will do the same for me!

 

I'm not a relative! We are lovers and partners and spouses. We ENJOY doing this.

 

 

Yes but whose plan was it?

 

Who set up the trip where the wive's friends (from work, elsewhere?) were invited but not the husband's?

 

That's very peculiar.

 

Also: It would be good to know whether or not these "friends" of the wife they will be spending time with, have solid relationships. Are these all contently married folks, with no history of cheating? Or are they "swingin' singles" or divorcees looking to party it up at the beach house? Will the friends' spouses also be attending? Or will OP be "the odd man out"?

 

I believe when you compartmentalize and keep your personal life distinctly separate from your personal life with your partner and stop sharing it is when all sorts of problems can arise.

 

Without communication, flirting, interest, visits, lunches, etc....those 8 to 10 hours a day can be awfully lonely. That's when the real trouble starts.

[GorillaTheater]

Yes I really have to wonder what kind of cushy jobs some people must have where they have all this time to socialize.

 

Some people f*ck off on the job on message boards, some do it in real life. Personally, I like balance in my f*cking off.

[Kidd]

Whatever. Feel free to continue rambling if you must. I'll establish any kind of marital recovery plan I like. You make a lot of assumptions and then draw a lot of conclusions. Sell your doom and gloom elsewhere. Your perspective is transparent. As with the other heads of the hydra, you appear to have intelligence but clearly lack wisdom.

[Mz. Pixie]

Kidd-

 

I had to laugh at you talking about them quoting each other's posts! That was classic. When you guys say "hydra" for some reason I picture that big worm type animal that was in the movie "Holes". Not sure why!

 

Would love to have you here on your thread again. It's helpful to see some of the other advice you're getting from some of the others like Owl and What Next so we can either agree or add to or whatever- don't you think?

 

Do try to have some one on one time with your wife while on vacation- I think that would be an awesome idea.

[Kidd]

It hasn't been sunshine and rainbows since dday. It's been misery. But I now know that We have two committed partners in this marriage. My eyes are wide open to all of the end-is-near prophecies and I refuse to let them be self-fulfilling. You're not notifying me of anything of which I am unaware. I'm not a rookie at this anymore. I'm well educated and have the scars to prove it. I'm just going to let us take a break from all this nonsense. We're not going to focus on the A non-stop. We're going to live a normal life for a while and that includes these vacations which I expect to be very positive because it is entirely up to the two of us and not subject to any statistics or anecdotal evidence otherwise. Find some new poster that needs your advice I have no further patience for those that cannot see more than their own negativity. I appreciate other posters that can understand that I simply DO know more about my situation, respect that I may disagree, and then offer an opposing suggestion that is carefully measured. That brings value. I'm familiar with the worst case scenario. I'm no longer dwelling on how bad it could get and asking for people to paint me an even worse scenario to save me "wasted time" and "pain." I am taking a calculated risk. If I want advice, it is how to better reconnect with my spouse. You dont think the beach party is a good idea. Fine. What I suppose are the chances that your counsel comes from the perspective of someone who successfully reconciled a marriage after infidelity? I suspect no support of reconciliation whatsoever.

[Kidd]

Alright Kriss. I'll give you a few points:

 

(1) I owe you an apology because my comments are probably 95% driven to other people that have driven me nuts lately. Congrats to them on getting me on a few rants today. Your comments may be what I consider negative but they're not personal attacks or an attempt to personally manipulate. I owe you some latitude.

(2) I think I ultimately hear a message from you that speaks to having an abundance of caution. I can respect the theme.

(3) I will ensure that I have the intended follow-up conversations with my wife about the dynamic of this beach party.

(4) I'll include some discussion about having a few of these days to ourselves elsewhere. I'll probably just set something up. She's going to like that idea.

(5) If you care, I'll grant you a personal update upon our return including a personal you-told-me-so if it ends in disaster.

 

I think there are a lot of naysayers to quick and successful reconciliation. Considering the lack of success in reconciliation and that the current approaches to reconciliation seem to consist of: (1) divorce them or (2) "consequences" and control of their behavior for 2-5 years (both of which preclude a successful R in my view), I suggest we investigate another approach. I think that's what I'll do. Guess we'll see.

[Kidd]

Mz Pixie, yeah, I guess I unloaded today. It's ok, they don't care anyway. Should mention that I love the ignore feature. It was awesome to see my notification that I had ignored a post by Mr.Harris today. Nice.

 

There are many people whom I've appreciated on this forum for offering support and respectfully keeping me honest (most people, actually). I'll keep coming around but I kinda hope I find myself cutting back from LS next month. That'd be a good sign. Catch you around.