Next steps?

[silktricks]

Kidd: Please try to realize when you are rationalizing like this and just stop doing it. Your wife cheated because it was fun, it felt good, and she loved all the attention, danger and excitement. You need to face that fact and decide if this is the woman you want to live with for the rest of your life. I can assure you that the porn movies starring your wife and OM are not going to just go away. There will be times when pictures of the two of them together are going to come crashing into your head and you are going to hate the sight of her. What I'm telling you here is true and will happen whether you want it to or not.

 

Real life is intruding on the life you wish you were living, and you must at least start to face reality. You think you are, but you are not. You say you are working with an IC and that is a great place to begin. Next time you see him, tell him what I posted here today and tell him that I challenged you to tell him exactly how you feel about the affair. Then tell me how that session went.

 

Really, I wish you only the best and hope you will recover and find peace.

Drifter, please try to realize that you are speaking from your perspective as if it is the only one. Kidd is not (necessarily) rationalizing. It's possible, sure, but it's also possible that he is attempting to understand his wife's point of view at the time of the cheating. It was absolutely a terrible thing she did, but none of us live in isolation and things we do (and don't do) often have not only far reaching consequences, but also far reaching causes. Understanding some of the "why's" for the someone who hurt us can also help us heal.

 

Did my husband enjoy the attention of the OW, the excitement, the fun? Of course, he did, otherwise he wouldn't have done it. But that wasn't all there was. Other information is his and I won't share it, but there were many contributing factors to the situation, not just the attention, excitement and fun of cheating.

[silktricks]

Feel what you feel and top stifling yourself like this! Assuming that you can control any urge to physically hurt your wife, the rest is fair game. You feel what you feel and need to face it when it's there. Stop worrying about any "setback in our communication" because your are just re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic! If you cannot honestly express your feelings to your wife then what's the point trying to reconcile?

Now THIS I completely and utterly agree with.

 

I realize, even if you don't, that you are not ready to express your true feelings and I'm sorry if I'm coming across too harsh. For me, it's like watching a car accident in slow motion and I believe I have the ability to affect the outcome in a positive way so I'm trying to help you steer. I just want to see you stop all these rationalizations and well-thought out plans and pay much more attention to your emotions.

and this, too.

[Kidd]

Kidd: Please try to realize when you are rationalizing like this and just stop doing it. Your wife cheated because it was fun, it felt good, and she loved all the attention, danger and excitement. You need to face that fact and decide if this is the woman you want to live with for the rest of your life. I can assure you that the porn movies starring your wife and OM are not going to just go away. There will be times when pictures of the two of them together are going to come crashing into your head and you are going to hate the sight of her. What I'm telling you here is true and will happen whether you want it to or not.

 

Real life is intruding on the life you wish you were living, and you must at least start to face reality. You think you are, but you are not. You say you are working with an IC and that is a great place to begin. Next time you see him, tell him what I posted here today and tell him that I challenged you to tell him exactly how you feel about the affair. Then tell me how that session went.

 

Really, I wish you only the best and hope you will recover and find peace.

 

Hmmm. Going to have to think on this one. I guess I see both as reality. I think I (or just about anyone) could have cheated given the "right" conditions. Doesn't make it right but it did help me to see her as human rather than evil. Perhaps it is true or perhaps it just makes it easier for me. I also think it was certainly a fun time for her. Wait...there it is...anger. And I think she carried remorse and guilt while it was happening. I think it is incredibly complex. But it makes me understand why you can't forgive. What I then don't understand is why you stayed. But that's another conversation. I will discuss this with my IC because my emotions are why I am back there anyway.

[reboot]

I think it is incredibly complex.

 

Indeed it is. I just have to laugh at these posters that think it's all just black and white.

[Tech_E]

Kidd I understand your perspective and drifter I understand yours. Most definitely you BOTH have a valid point. In my case it took quite a while, but both my wife and I finally realized one key point. There is a difference between expressing your emotions (anger, hurt, disappointment etc) and punishing. That is the key (or more so was a key for us). It is most definitely OK to express anger when it strikes you, but you need to find a way to do so without punishing.

 

Everyone finds their own path and what works for some doesn't work for others.

[nyrias]

Hmmm. Going to have to think on this one. I guess I see both as reality. I think I (or just about anyone) could have cheated given the "right" conditions. Doesn't make it right but it did help me to see her as human rather than evil. Perhaps it is true or perhaps it just makes it easier for me. I also think it was certainly a fun time for her. Wait...there it is...anger. And I think she carried remorse and guilt while it was happening. I think it is incredibly complex. But it makes me understand why you can't forgive. What I then don't understand is why you stayed. But that's another conversation. I will discuss this with my IC because my emotions are why I am back there anyway.

 

Well, humans, on average, are not very good at resisting temptation, controlling themselves or do the right thing. Just look at all the obese people who cannot get away from their hamburgers and cookies.

 

Anyone remember the famous Stanford psychology experiment that created the conditions where role-playing prison guards will abuse role-playing prisoners. They are just subjects.

 

Right and wrong often does not affect people behavior as much as you may like.

[drifter777]

Drifter, please try to realize that you are speaking from your perspective as if it is the only one. Kidd is not (necessarily) rationalizing. It's possible, sure, but it's also possible that he is attempting to understand his wife's point of view at the time of the cheating. It was absolutely a terrible thing she did, but none of us live in isolation and things we do (and don't do) often have not only far reaching consequences, but also far reaching causes. Understanding some of the "why's" for the someone who hurt us can also help us heal.

 

Did my husband enjoy the attention of the OW, the excitement, the fun? Of course, he did, otherwise he wouldn't have done it. But that wasn't all there was. Other information is his and I won't share it, but there were many contributing factors to the situation, not just the attention, excitement and fun of cheating.

 

silk: We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't believe that Kidd has yet achieved the perspective required to truly see things from his wife's perspective. He is trying hard, but at this point I believe he is doing it as a defense mechanism to avoid facing the cruel reality of her betrayal.

 

He may be able to appreciate more of his wife's perspective once he has achieved a reasonable level of recovery himself.

[silktricks]

silk: We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't believe that Kidd has yet achieved the perspective required to truly see things from his wife's perspective. He is trying hard, but at this point I believe he is doing it as a defense mechanism to avoid facing the cruel reality of her betrayal.

 

He may be able to appreciate more of his wife's perspective once he has achieved a reasonable level of recovery himself.

 

It's totally possible that you are right, but maybe not... I only know how things worked for me, and for me it helped to know what had been going on with him - not for a defense mechanism, but so I could gain understanding.

 

But I'm just fine with agreeing to disagree...

[Kidd]

I do have a hard time rationalizing the 30 times over a year. That's extraordinary especially considering the deception it took to achieve. I think of it as something you can't stop and fess up about once it has happened a few times and the fog sets in good. But some people do stop halfway into the first time. She didn't. Doesn't feel good.

[RepairMinded]

She wanted to hurt you.

 

It worked.

[justagirl1]

I read your initial post but not the following comments yet as I'm on my iPhone ATM... So this might have been addressed already. Did she ever say it was just about the sex? Did she ever say she loved the OM? Did they ever have plans to be together after divorcing spouses or was it all in fun?

[Kidd]

They became friends ans confidants about each others' marriages and personal lives. Then it went physical. They did say the ILY to each other but never had a plan to get together forever. They supposedly talked with each other about returning to their marriages and what they could do to fix things, broke it off several times but always ended up returning to the affair. She once mentioned their great physical chemistry. That one sticks with me.

[silktricks]

She once mentioned their great physical chemistry. That one sticks with me.

Ouch.

 

But on the other hand, I've known some women who have really great physical chemistry with a vibrator , so maybe it's not such a big deal - really.

[RepairMinded]

They became friends ans confidants about each others' marriages and personal lives.

 

Real friends don't help each other betray their respective spouses. They weren't friends in any meaningful sense of the word. A real friend would have told your wife to seek marital counseling for her marriage problems, not angled to f*ck her when the opportunity arose.

 

A "confidant" is someone who is invested with the deepest trust. A person who cheats on their spouse can't be trusted. So they weren't really "confidants" either.

 

Using terminology such as "friends" and "confidants" to describe herself and her affair partner is her way of falsely justifying what she did and trying to maintain a falsely elevated image of herself and what she did.

 

 

Then it went physical.

No "it" didn't "go physical." Use of the "passive voice" is simply another effort by your spouse to deny her responsibility for her actions. She and OM made the conscious series of decisions over a year's time which created their affair.

 

You have to stop letting your spouse control the discussion by her self-serving use of this false terminology.

 

Every time she tries to say "he was my friend" you have to put your foot down and say "No he was not" and then explain why he wasn't. As many times as it takes. Every time she uses passive terminology like "it" went physical you have to say "No "it" didn't, you decided to make it go physical."

 

 

They did say the ILY to each other but never had a plan to get together forever.

Right they were lying to each other simply for the thrill of the affair and they both knew it. Typical of many cheaters. That might even be worse than a married woman who actually has deluded herself into thinking she's "in love" with the OM (which your wife apparently never thought but cheated with him anyway).

 

 

They supposedly talked with each other about returning to their marriages and what they could do to fix things, broke it off several times but always ended up returning to the affair.

They never "broke it off" until you busted her (assuming they have actually broken it off since then). She's just lying to you about this. She's saying this to make herself look better (although even if it's true it doesn't make her look any better).

 

The proof that she's lying is that immediately before you discovered the affair, she came to you and told you she was unhappy and wanted to separate, not that she wanted to try to restore your marriage to a better state.

 

At what point, during her affair, did your wife EVER

approach you expressing concerns about your marriage and asking you to help fix it? Never.

 

 

She once mentioned their great physical chemistry. That one sticks with me.

Affair sex is perceived as much more thrilling by cheaters than marital sex, which is part of the lure for them. That doesn't mean there was any particularly great intrinsic physical chemistry between her and this particular guy. Again it's a way for her to justify why the affair happened, like this man was specially irresistible to her.

 

That's a flat out lie, because once your wife decided to cheat, she would have cheated with any number of available men. Then having gotten into an affair with someone else she would have said the exact same things--"oh he's such a good friend and confidant", "oh the sex is so exciting", "oh we tried to stop it but it just happened," etc.

 

Think about it--what are the odds that this specially irresistible OM would just happen to be her married boss? Isn't that a rather remarkable coincidence?

 

These are all pretty typical lies that cheaters tell and they prove that your wife is no where close to remotely having her head on straight and therefore you have a long long LONG way to go before you even will know if reconciliation with this woman is even possible. You forgave her, great, but that didn't change HER a bit.

Edited July 26, 2011 by RepairMinded

[David Cain]

Once again an attempt to twist my words.

 

Of course they have a right to be angry, but if that anger cannot be controlled and directed, there is no point in talking about reconciliation.

 

Some folks here apparently had little or no home training. Most of us learned not to bite the other kids when we were in kindergarten....

 

My point has been proven.

 

You can't predict how someone will react.

[RepairMinded]

Some betrayed spouses believe that stuffing their anger and forcing themselves to remain with an unremorseful cheating spouse entitles them to judge other betrayed spouses who don't.

[reboot]

You and your ilk are the only ones judging people.

[Dionysus]

You and your ilk are the only ones judging people.

 

Are you perhaps referring to the idea that JMK, RM and DC have curiously similar posting styles?

 

Also:

 

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/automotive/63558d1275277426-true-drivers-who-drive-big-suvs-must_not_feed_the_troll.jpg

Edited July 27, 2011 by Dionysus

[reboot]

Are you perhaps referring to the idea that JMK, RM and DC have curiously similar posting styles?

 

 

And those are just the unbanned heads of the hydra.

[Kidd]

I, for one, am finished being judged on here.

 

I've made a carefully thought out decision to give my marriage a second chance, to take divorce and separation off the table during the attempt, and to move forward with a spirit of forgiveness. I love my wife, she loves me, and I hope we can reconcile for our own future and for that of our children. I am not ignoring the past or the actions of my W that brought me here. I'm not in any kind of denial whatsoever. I'm painfully aware of what's happened in my life and carry it with me minute-to-minute. I'm also painfully aware of the potential of a false reconciliation occurring in the present or the future. I don't need any additional reminders and I have been sufficiently warned.

 

This forum has been a resource for me to try to seek counsel from those that have been in a similar situation, to bond with those people, and to try to make the best decisions I can for myself and my family moving forward. I also looked forward to having something to give back. Really, this has been my therapy and to a real extent it's all that I've had to work thru this an come up with a path. Unfortunately, one solitary person has managed to ruin that experience and to poison my resolve daily. It's going to take me a while to figure out why I can be so influenced; I think I simply don't trust my own judgment well enough right now to fight off such determined negativity (not really my fault) and that's being taken advantage of. I wish I understood what motivation lies behind such a person. I'm at the point where I feel pity and remorse for RepairMinded because I will heal over time. I think the driving force behind his posting is a bitterness that will never heal. He cannot and will not stop. Regardless, it's a reality that exists and it is stifling my ability to follow-thru on my own decisions.

 

It is my intention to look forward, but also to continue to learn from the past. My W is not going to be prepared for the level of analysis that it's going to take. The one thing I agree with is that it took years to reach the level of disrespect that permits such a long affair and deception to occur. It's going to take a lot to restore that respect and the trust that would follow.

 

I won't be updating this thread anymore and I won't be coming back to read it. I've learned what I can from here. It could have been much more but it's not worth what I go through to get it anymore; there are diminishing returns and too much reinforcement of paranoia that is just a hindrance when my decisions have been made. This forum is now just an unhealthy addiction that needs to be broken.

 

I will welcome PMs (with some notable exceptions) and very much hope to receive them. I'm going to discipline myself to login and only go there. It's not the best replacement but it's all I've been left with. I accept that I may just have to move forward on my own from now on. It's lonely but I've got to grow into my new reality.

 

I wish everyone the best and I thank those that have helped me a long the way.

[Tech_E]

Kidd, even though you said you are not going to read updates to this thread I hope you peek and read this one. I wish you the absolute best in your efforts to rebuild your marriage.

 

I fully understand your decision and I hope that this poster would have listend to your pleas to have him leave this thread alone, but he is clearly incapable of controling himself and the moderators of this forum are unable to deal with it as he isn't technically breaking any rules. It is a shame that he could run you off with his constant diatribes.

 

Good luck and I believe that you will succeed. Once this account becomes established I will be able to PM and I hope we can at least stay in contact that way. It is obvious that it won't be possible in the open forum with posters like this person. Sad.

 

Bon chance.

[RepairMinded]

Unfortunately, one solitary person has managed to ruin that experience and to poison my resolve daily.

 

No one on the internet poisoned your resolve. You just said that you know your reconciliation may be false which means you still don't trust your wife. That lack of trust on your part is not the fault of anything I've ever said. It's because of your wife's actions.

 

 

It's going to take me a while to figure out why I can be so influenced;

 

Since you are basically intelligent and logical then pleas to intelligence and logic are persuasive on you--even though you don't like the conclusion of my reasoning. Everything I've written has been based on a logical analysis even if you don't agree with it. None of it is based on emotions or wishful thinking.

 

Your emotions are telling you "don't listen" and "run away" but since everything I'm saying is more or less logical, the logical part of your brain is in conflict with the emotional part.

 

 

 

 

I think I simply don't trust my own judgment well enough right now to fight off such determined negativity (not really my fault) and that's being taken advantage of.

 

No one here has "taken advantage of" you.

 

 

 

I wish I understood what motivation lies behind such a person.

 

It's very simple. I'm trying to help you, by giving you what I believe to be truthful and logical opinions based on the facts you have presented and what I know (from reading many other threads and other materials) about how infidelity works and how recovery can best be brought about.

 

The problem is that you only want to listen to people who tell you what you think you want to hear.

 

 

 

I'm at the point where I feel pity and remorse for RepairMinded because I will heal over time.

 

Thanks but it's not pertinent to your problem.

 

 

 

 

I think the driving force behind his posting is a bitterness that will never heal.

 

No, the driving force behind my posting is that when I see something that strikes me as poor reasoning I will respond to it.

 

 

 

He cannot and will not stop.

 

 

Stop being logical? Why would I stop doing that?

 

 

Regardless, it's a reality that exists and it is stifling my ability to follow-thru on my own decisions.

 

No it's not.

 

Don't blame me for your wife's affair, your inability to deal with it properly, or your disinclination to listen to any opinions other than what you want to hear.

[RepairMinded]

Kidd, even though you said you are not going to read updates to this thread I hope you peek and read this one. I wish you the absolute best in your efforts to rebuild your marriage.

 

I fully understand your decision and I hope that this poster would have listend to your pleas to have him leave this thread alone, but he is clearly incapable of controling himself and the moderators of this forum are unable to deal with it as he isn't technically breaking any rules. It is a shame that he could run you off with his constant diatribes.

 

Good luck and I believe that you will succeed. Once this account becomes established I will be able to PM and I hope we can at least stay in contact that way. It is obvious that it won't be possible in the open forum with posters like this person. Sad.

 

Bon chance.

 

I didn't run anyone off.

[Tech_E]

Another day and another diatribe of you pulling a post by Kidd apart sentence by sentence. Yes in fact you DID run him off, Kidd clearly states this in his post. You do not have the capacity to understand that he has asked you very politely many times to leave his thread alone. He does not value your input; it's as simple as that.

 

This is a public forum and you can post as you like as long as you stay within the rules, you do that; there is no question about it. However, common decency would dictate that when asked politely to leave a conversation you do so, I am not sure why cannot grasp this concept. In fact I am sure you'll likely go off on another tangent and break this post down sentence by sentence, however I will not respond to it.

 

Kidd, my offer still stands.

[Tech_E]

Oh my...

 

Nonetheless Kidd you've made a wise decision, the inmates appear to be in control now.

 

At least it serves as comic relief