Next steps?

[dale_gribble]

Your plan is flawed in one aspect- the way you equate exposure as a "trump card." Exposure isn't a trump card, but a process toward reconciliation. You need to let HIS BW know whats going on ASAP so there won't be anymore secrets WHATSOEVER! By giving him the heads-up of your intention for TOTAL exposure, and your wife willing to relay this to him doesn't sound good because it sounds like she's still emotionally attatched and protecting HIS interests. Her only concern should be YOUR reconciliation and her good standing with you in terms of getting back you trust. Her priorities don't seem to coincide with making you feel comfortable with the R process.

[nyrias]

The bottom line is that all contact between those two need to stop. She lost her right to negotiate when she mixed pleasure with her job. Irresponsible. But then again it doesn't really matter because she'll never change anyway. At least her mindset won't.

 

No one says she has any right. However, it is WITHIN the RIGHT of the BS to give the WS some slack. In this case, the OP has the full right to demand NC (because of job reasons) in 45 days, instead of right now.

 

And it is still unreasonable to equate a 45 day ultimatum with no consequences. If the OP (and if his counselor also agree) thinks that this ultimatum suits his situation better, i don't see how you can know better.

[Mr.Harris]

No one says she has any right. However, it is WITHIN the RIGHT of the BS to give the WS some slack. In this case, the OP has the full right to demand NC (because of job reasons) in 45 days, instead of right now.

 

Yea but look at the results. They're ineffective and life draining.

 

And it is still unreasonable to equate a 45 day ultimatum with no consequences. If the OP (and if his counselor also agree) thinks that this ultimatum suits his situation better, i don't see how you can know better.

 

So you're saying it's unreasonable to demand a cheating wife to stop working right now.

[nyrias]

Yea but look at the results. They're ineffective and life draining.

 

 

 

So you're saying it's unreasonable to demand a cheating wife to stop working right now.

 

1) Sure. They may be. On the flip side, more demands may end the marriage, which will be preferable in YOUR view, but may not in HIS.

 

2) No. I am saying it is unreasonable to equate a 45-day ultimatum to no consequences, and it is unreasonable to assume you know better than him about his situation.

 

It is totally reasonable for him to ask her to do ANYTHING. It does not mean that in HIS judgment, it is the best course of action.

[Mr.Harris]

1) Sure. They may be. On the flip side, more demands may end the marriage, which will be preferable in YOUR view, but may not in HIS.

 

So you're saying if he doesn't stand up for himself, in the face of his disrespectful wife, his marriage will fail.

 

His marriage has been destroyed either way.

 

2) No. I am saying it is unreasonable to equate a 45-day ultimatum to no consequences, and it is unreasonable to assume you know better than him about his situation.

 

I can say the same about your posts, yet we all assume based on what we're presented with.

 

It is totally reasonable for him to ask her to do ANYTHING. It does not mean that in HIS judgment, it is the best course of action.

 

You are right: His current judgment is not the best course of action.

 

Standing up for himself and not taking no more of this emotional abuse is the best course of action.

 

He has a right to stand up for himself.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I have to agree with Owl and drifter. Any continued contact with the other person is a deal breaker. I commend you on wanting to save your marriage, but it's going to be one step forward and three steps back as long as any contact is maintained.

I also agree OM's wife needs to be told. Affairs are like mushrooms, they hate sunlight.

 

I agree with what you are saying here... but with the caveat that she should not be asked to quit her job.

 

In the event of a divorce it will be an extreme hardship both for himself and for his children if his wife were to be unemployed. Courts generally don't care about infidelity... they do care A LOT about income.

 

The fact that you have a plan and are sticking to it is excellent. Most of us muddle around in our misery without doing anything constructive for far too long.

 

A thoughtful plan that provides time to ride out the knee-jerk reactions.

 

A clarification that probably won't matter to anyone...

On dday my wife did ask me to let the other man work on his own marriage. Later when I gave her my terms about a day later, she modified the request to ask as a courtesy that I let her know if I had to tell his wife so that he would have a chance to do it himself.

 

I just want to point out that this implies SHE contact HIM to let him know in advance. How are you supposed to trust the limited contact with that kind of attitude?

 

I told her I had no need to discuss it with her and was focused on us. Short-sighted, I know, especially when I had initially really only related to the OM's wife and wanted her to know. Wife and I haven't discussed this subject since. I definitely wrestle with it daily but truly just don't want to play my only trump card with him now. Mid I believe my wife (a big if), he is trying to find her another role and is looking outside the company for himself. He knows I can out his wife and company. If I play the card now (which feels like reacting with my emotions rather than my brain) then that card is gone. If the fix this by moving on, I don't care about the OMs wife enough to expose. But if they don't, it's coming out. Seems the smart way to play it. Either way, I don't need my wife's permission. I would just do it and tell her later. In regards to the job, I laid it on thick last night. I might have broken her in more ways than one. I want to see the fallout in the next day or two. I still feel that if I go the 45 days, I'll have no question what to do.

 

While I think your strategy is sound, I believe your reasoning is off.

 

I will refer to OM as DoucheBag or DB. It is untrue that your only leverage over DB is telling his wife. You also have the ability to out him at work. If that happens... the company will likely take his job or move him. Win for you! Right now DB has full access to your wife every working day.

 

Leverage against your wife is as follows, Telling DB's wife, Outing her at work, separation, divorce... in that order.

 

In my opinion regardless of what happens at the 45 day mark... you should inform DB's wife. Your wife's reaction to that should provide a good gauge as to where she is at.

[Kidd]

Untouchable,

 

I agree that at the 45 day mark, there's no reason not to tell the OM wife. If my wife gets pissed, she can suck an egg. Today she told OM "in much more aggressive language" that she has to change roles. I think his lack of movement on this might just reveal his true nature to her. That would be a bonus.

[Mr.Harris]

Untouchable,

 

I agree that at the 45 day mark, there's no reason not to tell the OM wife. If my wife gets pissed, she can suck an egg. Today she told OM "in much more aggressive language" that she has to change roles. I think his lack of movement on this might just reveal his true nature to her. That would be a bonus.

 

Is that another one of her lies she told you after she came in the door and kicked off her high heels? Knowing her she was probably talking about a sex position in OM's office. You must not believe a word she says to you. She's still in an affair with this man. Stand up for yourself man.

[nyrias]

You are right: His current judgment is not the best course of action.

 

Standing up for himself and not taking no more of this emotional abuse is the best course of action.

 

He has a right to stand up for himself.

 

He also has a right not to. He also has a right to decide HOW to stand up for himself.

 

If the deadline is in 3 days instead of 45, will you still say that it is "not standing up for himself"? It is just a matter of degree.

[Kidd]

Today I've been suggesting that I move out while she decides where I am as a priority in her life. This typically destroys hopes of reconciliation but I am forcing her hand. Don't think I can sit at home with this for another 45 days. If we do separate, I'll probably tell OMs wife, too. Guess I'm getting fed up with not knowing every day. Nyrias, I appreciate the supportive viewpoint. Please continue to post. I have a feeling that my wife has been true since d day but clearly the doubters are having their influence over me. Trying to find a balance between reconciliation (which has so far required unhealthy blind trust) and giving up.

[nyrias]

Today I've been suggesting that I move out while she decides where I am as a priority in her life. This typically destroys hopes of reconciliation but I am forcing her hand. Don't think I can sit at home with this for another 45 days. If we do separate, I'll probably tell OMs wife, too. Guess I'm getting fed up with not knowing every day. Nyrias, I appreciate the supportive viewpoint. Please continue to post. I have a feeling that my wife has been true since d day but clearly the doubters are having their influence over me. Trying to find a balance between reconciliation (which has so far required unhealthy blind trust) and giving up.

 

I will. BTW, i have no problem with the other viewpoint that you should be assertive and not wait the 45 days. I just found some posters here very high handed and do give the proper respect to the BS if they don't follow their exact instructions.

 

It is within YOUR right to decide. Let me suggest an alternative that you may consider. Feel free to turn it down though. How about considering a much shorter deadline? I don't think it is unreasonable to communicate to her about your current pain, and ask for quicker resolution. Do it in a calm fashion so she knows this is not about taking revenge punishment on her.

[reboot]

Don't move out unless you've already made up your mind to divorce.

 

For that matter, her moving out would be better if someone has to leave. YOU did nothing wrong.

[Entropy3000]

She needs to quit or find another job no matter how successful she is going to be. Those are the consequences of her actions- PLAIN AND SIMPLE. She put herself in that position, now she needs to answer for her actions. You als need to disclose this to OM's wife, so you can be sure he's really working on HIS marriage. As long as she keeps working with/for him, its never going to end. When you say 30 times, does that mean sexcapades? Did you also ask for gory details, because I did and made up my decision right there and then when she told me what they did.

 

She can find another job somewhere else. She must quit this one. This may be a set back in her career where she lost time. If she had kept her panties on she would not be going through this. She made her choice. It is even possible she could change jobs and improve her career.

 

FWIW, I would not reconcile with her. The kids would be the only reason.

I see this happening again if she does not quit her job.

[reboot]

.... clearly the doubters are having their influence over me.

 

You take the good advice with the bad (and only you can decide which is which) and decide what works best for you. And also keep in mind not everyone is here to help.....

[nyrias]

She can find another job somewhere else. She must quit this one. This may be a set back in her career where she lost time. If she had kept her panties on she would not be going through this. She made her choice. It is even possible she could change jobs and improve her career.

 

FWIW, I would not reconcile with her. The kids would be the only reason.

I see this happening again if she does not quit her job.

 

Didn't she already agree to change jobs? The issue is the timing, not whether it will be a condition of reconciliation.

[Entropy3000]

That's so warped. This woman has been destructive and irresponsible personally and professionally. Her feelings right now should not be considered since she doesn't even care for her husband's feelings by obviously being unfaithful. Accepting someone back so casually after discovering they've been recently cheating on you is not being a man, that's being foolish.

 

 

 

She is walking away freely without consequences, because every day she's going back to the place and to the person she's been destroying her marriage with for the next couple of weeks. Her continued behavior shows she does not care about anyone but herself, and he should not have to put up with that simply because she's a woman.

 

 

 

Again this is messed up thinking. Those two are affair partners and the affair is still going on. The OM is not some sincere person who all of a sudden cares about this BH's marriage, and vice versa. If she honestly wanted the affair to stop she would be at home. The OM's wife deserves to know that her marriage has been a lie. Those two in a working environment is nothing near healthy.

 

Totally agree.

[Entropy3000]

The affair continues! They may not be having sex right now, but the emotional connection is as strong as ever.

 

The cheating wife continues to protect her OM by keeping the affair from the betrayed wife.

 

If the cheating wife was not in affair mode she would not care one way or another about telling the wife of OM. However, I assume the cheating wife remains loyal and faithful to OM by guarding his back and making sure the BW remains in the dark.

 

A truly repentant wife would go along with the idea of informing the BW.

 

Furthermore, not telling BW is beneficial because there is only one betrayed spouse watching the affair partners. Two betrayed spouses working together is always much more effective than one betrayed spouse (assuming the betrayed spouses want to save the marriage).

 

Not telling the betrayed wife is also beneficial to the cheating wife. This leaves the door open to re-start a full blown Physical Affair when things cool down and betrayed H puts his guard down.

 

There is more. The betrayed spouse should call the company and inform them that the OM is a philanderer and having extramarital affairs with subordinates. I would make a big stink at the work place to see if they fire the OM. The cheating wife will go nuts, but this will confirm that she is still in the affair.

 

Not only would I have told the OMW but I would have exposed the affair and provided the evidence to the company they while they were supposed to be at work they were at the hotel.

[Entropy3000]

Today I've been suggesting that I move out while she decides where I am as a priority in her life. This typically destroys hopes of reconciliation but I am forcing her hand. Don't think I can sit at home with this for another 45 days. If we do separate, I'll probably tell OMs wife, too. Guess I'm getting fed up with not knowing every day. Nyrias, I appreciate the supportive viewpoint. Please continue to post. I have a feeling that my wife has been true since d day but clearly the doubters are having their influence over me. Trying to find a balance between reconciliation (which has so far required unhealthy blind trust) and giving up.

 

I suggest you not move out. I do think she needs to quit that job now.

[Entropy3000]

Didn't she already agree to change jobs? The issue is the timing, not whether it will be a condition of reconciliation.

 

Giving her any time is ludicrous. This puts the job ahead of the marriage. Bad idea. Again, if it were me, I would have forced the situation with the employer long ago. That is just me. Her financial position in the marraige is giving her tremendous power over him. This also contributes to her lack of respect for him. Her boss is in a position of power. Very Alpha.

 

Anyway, I would not have given any time for the affair to continue.

[Mr.Harris]

He also has a right not to. He also has a right to decide HOW to stand up for himself.

 

If the deadline is in 3 days instead of 45, will you still say that it is "not standing up for himself"? It is just a matter of degree.

 

As I said before, he has a right to stand up for himself. He does not have to take this abuse from his wife.

[Mr.Harris]

Today I've been suggesting that I move out while she decides where I am as a priority in her life. This typically destroys hopes of reconciliation but I am forcing her hand. Don't think I can sit at home with this for another 45 days. If we do separate, I'll probably tell OMs wife, too. Guess I'm getting fed up with not knowing every day. Nyrias, I appreciate the supportive viewpoint. Please continue to post. I have a feeling that my wife has been true since d day but clearly the doubters are having their influence over me. Trying to find a balance between reconciliation (which has so far required unhealthy blind trust) and giving up.

 

How about you kick HER out instead? You did nothing wrong, and she continues to cheat on you and hurt you. She cares nothing about herself and others around her. She's a grown woman and you should not have to act like a parent to her. Protect yourself now or you'll end up like some of these men on the Separation and Divorce forum who stay with their abusive cheating wives and moan about it every day for the next few years. Be proactive. Trusting her right now is not an option.

[Kidd]

A few quick responses: we have had 2 straight days of discussing how impossible the whole job thing is..I've been blunt and she acknowledges that this is a make or break issue and that there's a huge sense of urgency. Thus the whole separation conversation. I expect we'll know more in the next few days but life with two jobs, two kids, etc is making it tough to get daily progress. I get that she shouldn't have been given 90 days. Hindsight is 20/20. It seemed like a brilliant compromise at the time when I fully believed her story. Considering the amount of effort that she is making towards Aug 1st, I'm not prepared to move up the deadline. It may move itself up if we can't make it that long. I've made it clear that this is unsustainable.

 

In terms of me moving vs her, she has managed three straight apologies after three straight rants from me. And I know that separation is not an effective way to reconcile. It still may happen depending on my stress level. I only suggested me moving because I have a relative's house very close which is currently vacant so I could still with the kids at no expense. We are not made of money by any means. If we divorce, she can be the one to leave which I made clear on d day.

 

In terms of telling the employer, I used to work for this company for 15 years. More recently I am a consultant to them. He would very likely be fired and there's a high probability that she would be, too since they're both in upper middle mgmt. My goal has been for her to move rather than be destroyed. And the exposure at work would be pure revenge. Not interested. Holding it over his head is interesting. At some point, I will tell the OMW. The goal for me lately has been to wait til the 90 days to keep him motivated to help her or move himself. If I play the card now, he'll just be f***ing pissed, which might be emotionally rewarding but doesn't otherwise help me. I will ultimately tell the wife because she deserves to know and she can be a second set of eyes but it gives up too much power to do it now for personal satisfaction (and I have no idea what wild card decisions she might makel - like getting them both fired). I should also mention that I don't have much hard evidence on the two of them. Everything I have is pretty circumstantial and just confirmed verbally by my wife. She volunteered a lot of detail that she didn't need to in an effort to answer all questions honestly. I don't need real evidence now because my state is no fault.

[Mz. Pixie]

Kidd-

Owl has been posting here a long time. He has sound intelligent advice. And he mended his marriage but he was not a wimp by any means. He's respected IMO. I've posted here a long time too-just not in a bit. But if you are interesting in hearing from me I will come here as much as I can.

 

I do not think you're being a wimp. I think you love your wife and you've had a long marriage. This is one event in that long marriage- you have kids and a whole life to consider. If you want to stand for your marriage- I will post and support. I will not coddle but I will be rational. You can block the posters that you don't want to see-there is an ignore button. Use it if they are affecting you.

 

Your wife is in the fog- it does exist. I have felt it. She does need to look for another job as you know- and end contact with her affair partner. You should also make sure that OM;s wife knows. You can't trust him to tell her himself-that's nuts. Your wife wants to allow him time to do damage control. Period.

 

If you want to mend your marriage-which I think is possible- do not leave your home. Do not. This is your choice- and it does not make you less of a man to do so- it makes you more of one IMO. Your wife's description of how her affair started is probably spot on- it sounds a bit like how mine got started. It is not like she just hopped out and decided to start sleeping with someone on a random whim to be deliberately cruel to you. There are dynamics of an affair that many people don't take the time to understand-because they automatically assume that people who do that are the lowest of the low. They make low choices definitely-but it doesn't ruin who they are forever. Keep posting-and hit ignore to the people who are bothering you!

[drifter777]

A few quick responses: we have had 2 straight days of discussing how impossible the whole job thing is..I've been blunt and she acknowledges that this is a make or break issue and that there's a huge sense of urgency. Thus the whole separation conversation. I expect we'll know more in the next few days but life with two jobs, two kids, etc is making it tough to get daily progress. I get that she shouldn't have been given 90 days. Hindsight is 20/20. It seemed like a brilliant compromise at the time when I fully believed her story. Considering the amount of effort that she is making towards Aug 1st, I'm not prepared to move up the deadline. It may move itself up if we can't make it that long. I've made it clear that this is unsustainable.

 

In terms of me moving vs her, she has managed three straight apologies after three straight rants from me. And I know that separation is not an effective way to reconcile. It still may happen depending on my stress level. I only suggested me moving because I have a relative's house very close which is currently vacant so I could still with the kids at no expense. We are not made of money by any means. If we divorce, she can be the one to leave which I made clear on d day.

 

In terms of telling the employer, I used to work for this company for 15 years. More recently I am a consultant to them. He would very likely be fired and there's a high probability that she would be, too since they're both in upper middle mgmt. My goal has been for her to move rather than be destroyed. And the exposure at work would be pure revenge. Not interested. Holding it over his head is interesting. At some point, I will tell the OMW. The goal for me lately has been to wait til the 90 days to keep him motivated to help her or move himself. If I play the card now, he'll just be f***ing pissed, which might be emotionally rewarding but doesn't otherwise help me. I will ultimately tell the wife because she deserves to know and she can be a second set of eyes but it gives up too much power to do it now for personal satisfaction (and I have no idea what wild card decisions she might makel - like getting them both fired). I should also mention that I don't have much hard evidence on the two of them. Everything I have is pretty circumstantial and just confirmed verbally by my wife. She volunteered a lot of detail that she didn't need to in an effort to answer all questions honestly. I don't need real evidence now because my state is no fault.

 

In your posts you do a lot of explaining and rationalization. I'm wondering how you feel about what your wife has done to you. What are you doing to address the pain you are in right now? I get the feeling you are trying to "manage" your way though all this without giving yourself a chance to really feel anything. Hey, it may work for a while but you can't compartmentalize your feelings and ignore them forever. This is a selfish, hurtful, disgusting thing your wife has done to you and it doesn't seem as though you are facing reality. Stop worrying about how this may affect her career and start looking at how this is and will continue to affect your life. Look at what she has done to destroy your family. I think every day she continues to go to work and see her affair partner is decreasing your chances of reconciliation because one day you are going to start feeling all the emotions you have bottled up and you are going to wonder why it was so damn important that she continued to work with that guy.

[Kidd]

We have MC on Wednesday.

 

1 I am going to reinforce the need for a job change but not dwell on it. She knows it is make or break, period.

2. I'm going to insist upon the normal transparency stuff. She has already agreed but has been pissy about it. She needs to accept it without resentment and know that this jean opportunity to reestablish trust.

3. I'm going to tell her I am telling the OMW and that she needs to leave it alone.

 

If she can do these three things in addition to everything else she is and has been doing, I can and will give 100% and we can make it.