Should I live separately from H?

[DrWife]

So here's the breakdown:

 

I have a history of domestic violence (everything from rape to choking to being beaten) and have also lived with many people who were severely chemically imbalanced and prone to emotional abusiveness and addictions.

 

My H, is a wonderful man with a very kind heart. However, sometimes when we disagree he yells and slams doors and makes vague threats to my son, eg "I'm fixing to use that fly swatter for something else if you don't listen!" as well as just generally being harsh with him and very criticizing. I understand he has anxiety issues and does not control his emotions as well as I do, and I don't put all the blame on him for the stress he has over my son who can be quite difficult despite consistent discipline. But we have tried books on marriage, talking, making lists to get on the same page with parenting rules, etcetera. We cannot afford health insurance to see a marriage counselor.

 

It has really gotten to the breaking point with me in the last couple of weeks where I just will not tolerate the behavior any more. I love him and I want my marriage to work. I believe much of his stress may stem from the fact that we really rushed into getting married when we should have dated for longer and waited longer to move in together. I think it is a lot for him to take in being on his own most of his life and suddenly he has a wife and a 6 year old son to look after. Anyway- what I need is a plan of action. I told him I don't WANT to live separately but I can't live the way things are right now and that I am open to any other ideas he has for what we can DO to improve things.

 

He says... "maybe we can get some marriage books on audio tape instead." I asked him, kindly and calmly, "how would having the books on audio tape make them more effective?". And he said "I don't know. I can't think of anything."

 

I have taken many actions myself to improve my own behaviors and am fully willing to accept culpability for my role. For example there were two instances where I disagreed w/his parenting decisions in front of my son, I was completely wrong for that and I conceded to it and said I would never do it again, and I haven't. I have largely altered how I communicate to him to meet his 'love language' which is verbal affirmation and physical affection- he needs to be told he is important and touched a lot. I don't operate that way at all. So I made a list of things I need to do daily to meet his love needs- cuddle in the morning and at night, give him one compliment a day, etcetera. We have regular sex, meaning weekly or more often than that. And I give him a massage sometimes. His happiness improved greatly once I started taking these measures So I am doing the work and will continue to take responsibility AND action. I'd just like to see some action from him! I am afraid he feels powerless and dejected, no matter how much I affirm to him that I love him.

 

So I'm here looking for advice on alternatives to marriage counseling for us. Something we can actually DO. Because his apologies and promises to 'never do that again', they haven't changed anything. And we've done nothing but read marriage books since we got hitched and answer the questions and do the exercises and make lists for each other and all that these types of books will typically ask you to do to strengthen your marriage.

 

I really don't want to live separately. And I really can't live like this. Please help.

[Woman In Blue]

Well, at least you're actually doing SOMETHING every single day - massages, feeding his ego, making everything ALL ABOUT HIM. Pretty much giving him 110%.

 

And he's doing squat.

 

Oh, except verbally abusing your innocent 6 year old child every day. Seriously, how much more ass-kissing are you going to do for this jerk who makes ZERO effort to improve your lives other than "reading a book" which is completely LAME and an effortless way to do things? All you're doing is making some author richer when you buy that crap.

 

He needs ANGER MANAGEMENT. Professional anger management therapy.

[DrWife]

Well, at least you're actually doing SOMETHING every single day - massages, feeding his ego, making everything ALL ABOUT HIM. Pretty much giving him 110%.

 

And he's doing squat.

 

Oh, except verbally abusing your innocent 6 year old child every day. Seriously, how much more ass-kissing are you going to do for this jerk who makes ZERO effort to improve your lives other than "reading a book" which is completely LAME and an effortless way to do things? All you're doing is making some author richer when you buy that crap.

 

He needs ANGER MANAGEMENT. Professional anger management therapy.

 

I agree! I think the problem is he doesn't really agree. I mean he says at the moment he's sorry but the behavior doesn't change so it's hard for me to really believe he IS sorry or he does think he has a problem. He said this morning he doesn't agree that he's angry with my son a lot of the time... when he is not around my son asks me 'why does daddy have a mad angry brain?', and he is always coming to me telling me my H is not being nice to him... and I have to defend my husband because it's wrong for me to call out my H in front of our son. But I really think my husband does not believe it is that bad... Ugh it really sucks.

 

Anyway I told him I need some kind of plan of action from him to help me fix this, marriage books, apologies and promises are not going to work anymore, he needs to tell me what he is planning to DO or what WE can do together to make this marriage work. Right now I'm just fighting the guilt so hard because I can see that he is hurt. I want to take it back, nurse his wounds, swear I won't ever leave him... but I know I can't do that. I know things NEED to change. Blaaaaah.

[DrWife]

LOL oh, you "disagree" with him sometimes, about stuff, and that's what triggers him to yell?

 

He triggers himself. He is responsible for his own reactions, as all of us are. He is a 30 year old man. The last time he yelled at me, we were having a conversation with the neighbor outside after my son went to sleep, having a beer, listening to music and just chatting. I told him after the neighbor went back upstairs, "I felt like I was talking to myself, like you kept changing the subject on me and like both of you did not care about what I was saying." He says to me "your perception is wrong", IMMEDIATELY starts yelling, says in fact he's going to go up to the neighbor and ask him what he thinks. I was like "don't, let's talk about this", he slams the door, comes back about 10 minutes later. Saying "Yeah we both think you totally dominated that conversation. Not only is your perception wrong, your REALITY is wrong." I was like "I was just trying to tell you how I felt, not start a fight... *sigh*". And that's the truth. So don't act like or assume I am just trying to push his buttons.

 

He doesn't just randomly yell and shout, does he? Is it always or most of the time during a "disagree" with yourself?

 

Of course he doesn't.

 

Honey it sounds like you're pushing his buttons and know exactly how to get his goat.

 

"Honey", I don't MAKE someone react a certain way and I don't WANT disharmony.

 

Stop doing it, and this problem will go away. You seem like you got one foot out the door of this relationship and are looking for an excuse to book. Don't make him the badguy--you're the one who picked him, right?

 

I'm not trying to "book" I'm trying to fix things, that's why I'm on here, otherwise I would tell him to **** off and leave, it's over, whatever. With most men I would have done it WAY before now. I'm committed to this marriage, but I also need to and should be able to have healthy *boundaries* of respect and communication with my husband.

[Silivren]

Unfortunately if you have a history of being abused in relationships you may unconciously continue to attract abusive partners.. just because the abuse isn't physical doesn't mean it's not emotional and abusers are often the first to blame those they abuse for the behavior "You made me hit you.. it's not my fault" - and of course they're oh so sorry afterwards.. and hence the honeymoon cycle.

 

How long have you guys been together? You said that you didn't really have enough time before living together and getting married.

 

I'd be concerned for your son first and foremost. I don't care what's going on in his life. It's absolutely INEXCUSABLE to be abusive to a 6 year old...

 

Bottom line is he needs to demostrate his willingess to meet you halfway. I agree with anger managment and perhaps some counselling. You have some serious issues here that cannot be thrown under a rug and ignored. Marriage is about compromise and working together and if he is absolutely unwilling to try and work with you, you may have to rethink your marriage.

 

I hope this can work out for you.

[WhisperinnWinds]

Unfortunately if you have a history of being abused in relationships you may unconciously continue to attract abusive partners.. just because the abuse isn't physical doesn't mean it's not emotional and abusers are often the first to blame those they abuse for the behavior "You made me hit you.. it's not my fault" - and of course they're oh so sorry afterwards.. and hence the honeymoon cycle.

 

How long have you guys been together? You said that you didn't really have enough time before living together and getting married.

 

I'd be concerned for your son first and foremost. I don't care what's going on in his life. It's absolutely INEXCUSABLE to be abusive to a 6 year old...

 

Bottom line is he needs to demostrate his willingess to meet you halfway. I agree with anger managment and perhaps some counselling. You have some serious issues here that cannot be thrown under a rug and ignored. Marriage is about compromise and working together and if he is absolutely unwilling to try and work with you, you may have to rethink your marriage.

 

I hope this can work out for you.

 

 

I agree.

 

Regardless of whether or not she's 'antagonizing' him, exploding at her is not an excuse. Unless she's screaming at him and going bonkers also, he's got no right to do that to her. Even if she IS getting under his skin, intentionally or not.

 

The problem with someone who has an anger issue is that they have to be willing to change. My partner was also rather volatile and explosive in his anger - he would at times throw things. One night he screamed and swore at me in front of my friend - who stood there in complete shock. Why? Because I told him that after a few beers, he was being too harsh in disciplining his cat. I got up, got in my car, left, and didn't speak to him for a few days.

 

I told him that if he ever spoke to me that way again, it was for sure over. I would not stay with someone who was abusive. I told him it was high time he learned how to deal with his anger like an adult and not throw temper tantrums like a baby. I'm the type to stick to my word, so that helped. You know what?

 

That was a few years ago. He has never approached anything like that since. Of course here and there he gets angry at something, raises his voice a little and has his few minutes of anger before he settles down. But he has never expressed his anger toward me like that again.

 

You need to be firm and you need to be firm now. Decide your plan of action. And approach him with it. Tell him exactly what he needs to do, or what you will do if your needs are not met. And follow through.

 

He's abusive, and ultimately only he can decide if you're worth changing for or not - you can't make him.

[DrWife]

Unfortunately if you have a history of being abused in relationships you may unconciously continue to attract abusive partners.. just because the abuse isn't physical doesn't mean it's not emotional and abusers are often the first to blame those they abuse for the behavior "You made me hit you.. it's not my fault" - and of course they're oh so sorry afterwards.. and hence the honeymoon cycle.

 

How long have you guys been together? You said that you didn't really have enough time before living together and getting married.

 

I'd be concerned for your son first and foremost. I don't care what's going on in his life. It's absolutely INEXCUSABLE to be abusive to a 6 year old...

 

Bottom line is he needs to demostrate his willingess to meet you halfway. I agree with anger managment and perhaps some counselling. You have some serious issues here that cannot be thrown under a rug and ignored. Marriage is about compromise and working together and if he is absolutely unwilling to try and work with you, you may have to rethink your marriage.

 

I hope this can work out for you.

 

We've been living together for a few months. We knew each other for 12 years, but this was off and on as I moved out of the city a lot. We used to sit around all night talking at Denny's... I actually married him because he was always SO calm, so chill... I have never once seen him having these emotional outbursts or yelling before, and he was great with my son before we married. It was a very short courtship, I thought since the sparks were suddenly there and we got along so well... I just believed it was fate. And I'm not naive like that typically. I guess this time I was

[DrWife]

I agree.

 

Regardless of whether or not she's 'antagonizing' him, exploding at her is not an excuse. Unless she's screaming at him and going bonkers also, he's got no right to do that to her. Even if she IS getting under his skin, intentionally or not.

 

The problem with someone who has an anger issue is that they have to be willing to change. My partner was also rather volatile and explosive in his anger - he would at times throw things. One night he screamed and swore at me in front of my friend - who stood there in complete shock. Why? Because I told him that after a few beers, he was being too harsh in disciplining his cat. I got up, got in my car, left, and didn't speak to him for a few days.

 

I told him that if he ever spoke to me that way again, it was for sure over. I would not stay with someone who was abusive. I told him it was high time he learned how to deal with his anger like an adult and not throw temper tantrums like a baby. I'm the type to stick to my word, so that helped. You know what?

 

That was a few years ago. He has never approached anything like that since. Of course here and there he gets angry at something, raises his voice a little and has his few minutes of anger before he settles down. But he has never expressed his anger toward me like that again.

 

You need to be firm and you need to be firm now. Decide your plan of action. And approach him with it. Tell him exactly what he needs to do, or what you will do if your needs are not met. And follow through.

 

He's abusive, and ultimately only he can decide if you're worth changing for or not - you can't make him.

 

I have a major problem with not knowing how to set boundaries. And everything I find online is just descriptions about what healthy boundaries are, not how to enforce them. I don't know how to develop a 'plan of action' which is why I asked for his help with one. All I know is reading books and talking, etc.

[DrWife]

Have you figured out what's going on with you that resulted in you picking abusive partners repeatedly? Have you dealt with the damage that those types of relationships do?

 

I was in an abusive M for ten years. That M ended six years ago and I did a lot of personal work throughout that time. I remarried last year to a very wonderful man who I love very much.

 

Although I had come a long way personally, I found myself reacting to some of our very normal, settling into a marriage, issues in the same manner that I would have reacted to my exH (after I had been conditioned by his abuse and was hypersensitive about everything). It was extreme and it hurt my H to see me like that. He knows of my background (was actually my friend through all of it so he had a better "firsthand" account of it all as it happened) so he lovingly pointed it out and I knew that he was right.

 

See, with all the work that I had done, I hadn't been in a M again. I had no idea how triggered I would be by small things that stemmed from my past. I had no idea how it would feel with someone else in "my" space. Although everything I learned helped me identify the issue and get it corrected quickly, it was still sort of "textbook knowledge" until then (with regards to my part in a relationship like this).

 

Reading your post, I couldn't help but notice that you seemed overly sensitive to the chat you and your H had with the neighbor. It came across to me as being "off". I can't really explain it anymore than that, except that maybe I recognize a little bit of insecurity and needing reassurance that you were an important part of that interaction.

 

But I think that's where your personal work comes in. I do think you're on the look out for anything that could be construed as abusive, and probably because you won't ever stand for that treatment again. I get it because I've been there. But that can also make us emotionally tiring when we're always on guard and pointing out "wrongs". In no way does that excuse his behavior at all. He certainly needs to work on his reactions, but I'm guessing that he's probably pretty frustrated too.

 

The first year or so of M can be pretty hard. Again, I don't know what kind of work you've done about your past, but a counseling "tune up" could help clarify some of this for you. If you feel solid about where you are and your reactions, then evaluate if this M is where you really want to be.

 

"Have you figured out what's going on with you that resulted in you picking abusive partners repeatedly? Have you dealt with the damage that those types of relationships do?" I don't know. I do not generally pick abusive types of relationships. I was coming out of an abusive environment with my son's father that was very short lived because I removed us from it (emotional abuse not physical, although he did throw things)... overall I would never be with any man who talked down to me, ESPECIALLY given my history.

 

I'm not a fan of counseling generally- I find most people in this profession to be little more than drug pushers. Plus I feel like I know myself so well that what's the point in having someone else tell me about ME? I know the source of my caregiver problem, all the sources of it in fact. When I'm alone I'm the strongest person on earth! In friendships I am strong also. On the romantic level it's very difficult for me to be (I'm sure my H would disagree with that though, because I only speak up to him when I've been building my confidence and I put up a really good front). But I did tell my H I would do individual counseling if he did and we did marital counseling. Right now our problem is lack of health insurance for counseling. I sent an email to the psych dept of our local university asking about if they did any kind of low cost or pro bono counseling through their department. Some places do. No word back yet.

Reading your post, I couldn't help but notice that you seemed overly sensitive to the chat you and your H had with the neighbor. It came across to me as being "off". Well for one thing I am severely hearing impaired. My H and the neighbor were sitting across from each other and my H was sitting next to me. I could not read his lips well, and they were talking so fast back and forth, so interested in each other, that I couldn't keep up, I felt completely trapped out by my own physical limitations (and I did tell this to my H during our 'fight'). Whenever I would bring something up, I was trying to squeeze a lot in at once because it was hard to keep up, so I understand how they felt I was at times 'dominating the conversation', but they would respond like one or two short things each and then go back to each other. My H said "not everybody is interested in the same things you are." as the reason why the subjects changed so quickly... but still insisted I 'took over' the conversation, even though I could not keep up! So maybe what seems off to you is that my hearing loss played a factor, and certainly in my social insecurity. What I was asking from my H was not to say 'oh you're right' but just to listen to my feelings and acknowledge them. Instead the first thing out of his mouth is "your perception is wrong". My response to that was "you don't get to tell me my PERCEPTION is wrong, perceptions are individual, I respect that you saw the conversation differently than I did and you need to respect the way I feel too." He got so pissed off when I said that...

[DrWife]

That's when he started yelling and said "Fine!" and got up and put his shoes on and said "I'm going to go ask him what HE thinks!!" and slammed the door. That's very exactly how that conversation went. He came back, rubbed it in my face that the neighbor agreed with him, told me 'not only is your perception wrong, your REALITY is wrong.' A few minutes later, after I was very constructively telling him I needed him to respect me and I wasn't trying to just start **** with him, I was just trying to say how I felt, he softened and felt guilty and said he was sorry. He even admitted the neighbor *also* happened to tell him he was being a stupid ******* to get into a fight with me over me telling him how I felt, even if I WAS wrong. But anyway that's always how it goes. He's always SORRY... AFTER the fact.

[DrWife]

Your opening post talks about a lot of abuse in your past but then in your response to me you said you pick abusive relationships. Further your response to me is still how it's all about him being in the wrong. It's his fault.

 

I think you're in a bit of denial about your own actions...but I can tell that you are not receptive to thinking that any of this could be because of you. Further proven by your attitude about counselors.

 

Look, you can win the battle if you try hard enough. Sometimes people just give up due to pure exhaustion. But if you want to have a happy relationship with another person, some genuine self reflection will be helpful.

 

"but I can tell that you are not receptive to thinking that any of this could be because of you." I don't think that's true at all. I have done many things to work on and change my OWN behavior since I got married (I posted some examples on the thread). I know I am defensive of my son, and when I questioned my husbands disciplinary methods in front of my son I knew that was wrong and I have not done that since. I am not at all afraid of self examination. I know that I can be overly sensitive to some things because of my history and I am always worried about whether or not I am being fair, I am always asking him what he thinks about that. I admitted our argument before had to do with my own social insecurity in being hearing impaired, etcetera... so I'm not sure where you're getting the opinion I'm not taking any responsibility, just because I don't like counselors that much.

[DrWife]

Also the abuse in my past is from family members not romantic partners. My son's father wanted to be in his life out of nowhere when he was 5 years old and I gave him a chance, I had not known before then that he was a bipolar alcoholic who was emotionally abusive, because my son was the result of me attempting to be friends with benefits with a guy who was nothing more than an acquaintance. Anyway- he's the only example of me PICKING an abusive relationship and even then not entirely and I got the hell out of there when he started throwing things and being drunk and screaming at me in front of my son. My ex-stepfather and my brother and being sexually assaulted by strangers (one time was when I was walking home and the other time was when I was looking for a friend at my neighbors house and one of the roommates raped me) are where my history comes from... the former was severely bipolar (and a pedophile) and my brother had major addiction problems... but I've never gone into a relationship with a man who had "problems" with abusiveness. I will not tolerate it.

Edited June 16, 2011 by DrWife

[Mme. Chaucer]

Also the abuse in my past is from family members not romantic partners.

 

Except for your son's father and your current husband. That's significant picking of abusive partners.

 

 

I've never gone into a relationship with a man who had "problems" with abusiveness. I will not tolerate it.

 

Yes, you have. Not to "blame the victim," but you are responsible for your own choices. You ARE tolerating it now, and tolerating abuse of your son. So DON'T continue to live with your husband. If you can save your marriage, you can work on it while living separately.

[DrWife]

Yeah, you said something like that in response to my post. And said that maybe that's what I picked up was "off". It didn't really sound to me like taking responsibility for it though, but regardless...have you told him that? Because the last thing you said about it was that HE apologized after the fact, etc. Did you apologize for your part?

 

You just wanted him to acknowledge that you felt left out of the conversation. You know you're hearing impaired. Isn't it up to you to place yourself in a position to read lips if you need to do that to understand what's going on? Or is it his responsibility to make sure you're included? I think he shoud be sensitive to it, sure. But should it be his fault that happened? From the image I've gotten from the description of events, no.

 

I'm not trying to pick you apart here, really. I'm just trying to give you a different perspective. It's easiest to say "what a jerk, leave him!" but if you want a happy relationship, you'll have to look at your own actions as well.

 

You sound like you deliver your concerns and issues to him in a calm manner. But it does make me wonder how many concerns and issues you have (ie being overly sensitive). People get tired of constant emotional hand holding. And I get a strong impression here that's what's going on. Again, he needs to work on controlling his anger and outbursts. I'm not excusing his behavior one bit. But delivery of a message isn't all that counts. Making someone an emotional dumping ground is a form of abuse too.

 

I know you'll disagree with my assessment, and really I have nothing to go on besides some of the things I've picked up in what you've said and how you've said it, besides a gut feeling. You can take it for what it's worth, but I strongly suggest if you want a successful relationship, that you begin to examine your own history and behaviors as well.

 

No I don't disagree with your assessment, not entirely anyway. The only things I don't concur with are the idea that I am making him an 'emotional dumping ground'- it is REALLY hard for me to work up the courage to say I don't like something he did or said, so I rarely do. And also that I should have apologized for our argument. All I said was "I felt left out of the conversation", HE did all the screaming and slamming doors, I was very constructive the entire time. So no I do not feel like I owed him an apology in that particular disagreement. As for the particulars "You know you're hearing impaired. Isn't it up to you to place yourself in a position to read lips if you need to do that to understand what's going on?". Uh, yes and no. He knows I need to see him to communicate and we have a frequent problem of him not looking at me when he is speaking. He "forgets" a lot that I can't hear. On the other hand I share some responsibility in bringing it up if I can't follow what's happening. so I think that is an equally shared thing.

 

It makes sense that I could be overly sensitive to anything I may deem to be aggressive behavior because of my history. I am not entirely sure what to do about that other than reading self help books, which I am. And trying to get counseling set up (waiting on response from psych department).

 

To address "how many concerns I have", these are the main ones: 1) him constantly raising his voice at my son and criticizing him, I mean literally 90% of the time he is ignoring him or b*tching at him, and that is way too much. My son has ADHD and if you pick at every single tiny thing he does imperfectly, he will never get praise or love. Some things you just have to let go. 2) Any time he yells at me or slams doors, not only is it terrible role modeling behavior to my son but I just will NOT tolerate that. Not even "sometimes". 3) He's in his head all the time, he comes home and turns on the computer and ignores me and Braeden. 4) He has said more than once that he thinks his job is worse than my illness and what I go through every day. That is extremely hurtful to me because I'm in pain constantly and I know he resents that he works and I don't and he comes home and the house isn't exactly the way he wants it to be. 5) When he says I am "wrong" or my perception is "wrong", it shuts me down. He really really REALLY needs to be right, every time.

 

Those are the things, really, that are problems for me.

[DrWife]

Except for your son's father and your current husband. That's significant picking of abusive partners.

 

Yes, you have. Not to "blame the victim," but you are responsible for your own choices. You ARE tolerating it now, and tolerating abuse of your son. So DON'T continue to live with your husband. If you can save your marriage, you can work on it while living separately.

 

I'm not sure I would call my husband "abusive", so IDK if I agree with you on your first point.

 

And yes I am 100% responsible for my choices, correct.

[LittleTiger]

I'm not sure I would call my husband "abusive", so IDK if I agree with you on your first point.

 

And yes I am 100% responsible for my choices, correct.

 

I'm sorry DrWife, but I also get the impression your huband is 'abusive'.

 

I've bolded here the behaviour that I consider abusive:

 

To address "how many concerns I have", these are the main ones: 1) him constantly raising his voice at my son and criticizing him, I mean literally 90% of the time he is ignoring him or b*tching at him, and that is way too much. My son has ADHD and if you pick at every single tiny thing he does imperfectly, he will never get praise or love. Some things you just have to let go. 2) Any time he yells at me or slams doors, not only is it terrible role modeling behavior to my son but I just will NOT tolerate that. Not even "sometimes". 3) He's in his head all the time, he comes home and turns on the computer and ignores me and Braeden. 4) He has said more than once that he thinks his job is worse than my illness and what I go through every day. That is extremely hurtful to me because I'm in pain constantly and I know he resents that he works and I don't and he comes home and the house isn't exactly the way he wants it to be. 5) When he says I am "wrong" or my perception is "wrong", it shuts me down. He really really REALLY needs to be right, every time. Those are the things, really, that are problems for me.

 

You say you will not tolerate certain behaviours - not even 'sometimes' - but you are tolerating them. He's still behaving this way and you're still living with him.

 

Yes, you should live separately from your H. If you won't get away from him for your sake, then at least do it for your son. Maybe you can work on your marital problems once you have some distance between you.

 

Relationships take two and both people are in some way responsible for the dynamics between them. In this case - by tolerating his current behaviour you are allowing your H to be abusive towards you and your son.

 

How about a plan of action that involves setting boundaries. Make it clear what you will and won't tolerate and let him know what the consequences are if he steps over the boundaries......then stick to what you say. Don't make any threats that you can't or won't follow through. Once he realises you mean business, his behaviour will start to change.

 

Good luck.