Mentally unwell girl, but love of my life

[Zzz]

Hello, there is a girl I love dearly, and as cheesy at it sounds, it's what I perceived as love at first sight. She made me so happy, and we were together previously for around half a year, but broke up due to some problems I had myself about being controlling during the relationship. Now we both love each other very much, and we frequently tell each other that. But I'm in a bit of a pickle at the moment, she is currently about to undergo counselling due to an uncle molesting her as a child. This had made their family very unstable, and although it never seemed to affect her before, it suddenly came about, it caused her to cry during the night frequently and they could never pinpoint a reason. Hopefully her counsellor will help her with that.

 

However, problems stem deeper than that. After breaking up about half a year ago, things have only got worse. We've both made huge mistakes with other people though eventually came back to each other. I try to be understanding with her, but we haven't got back together in all this time. She states that she is very panicky when talking about a relationship because of what happened before, and thus despite loving me and being able to act as if she is in a relationship with me she simply panics far too much at even the thought of a relationship, yet could not bare me to be with anyone else.

 

Today has been awful though, she pretty much told me to just not talk to her ever again (this has happened in the past already, she usually calms down soon) because I messaged a girl on Facebook, as we have very strict rules with each other. She was very angry at me a few days ago after finding out. She seemed to be okay with me now but she's been very unhappy with me since. She has tried to forgive me, but it has been very hard for her, as she had a massive problem with being able to forgive people. Please help me on my situation? I don't want to be constantly told to get out of her life and abused for minor things, even if she isn't in the mentally best state at the time. I want a relationship too, but again, her panicking is stopping that.

 

Any help would be appreciated SO much. Thank you for your time.

[betterdeal]

This is a very delicate situation to be in.

 

Did you know qualified therapists see a therapist too? They all have mentors, in part as a safety measure. They also limit the amount of sessions and clients they see. Given that they do all this, to protect their mental health, it is wise to follow their example.

 

My advice is to start seeing a counsellor yourself, and maybe discuss using a couples counselling service too. Pick your counsellors well. Tell them your situation, her situation and what you guys want. Check they are versed in dealing with the effects of molestation on a relationship. If you don't feel comfortable with a particular counsellor, try another.

 

Where are you? If in the UK, Relate offer free relationship counselling.

Edited June 16, 2011 by betterdeal

[Wendysong]

I would suggest counseling as well. All of this stuff needs to be talked out one on one by you and a counselor and possibly with a couple counselor if your gal is into it. Is she the type that might get offended if you offer to go see a counselor together?

[TimothyParadox]

Seems pretty hopeless to me. How can you bear to be with a person that won't even allow you to chat freely on facebook? And they call *you* controlling?

[Downtown]

ZZZ, I agree with BetterDeal and Wendy that you should visit a clinical psychologist on your own, for a few sessions at least. An incident of childhood sexual molestation greatly increases the risk of developing BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has (she was molested during her childhood too). If your exGF does have strong BPD traits, that would explain why she is so controlling and then projects that controlling behavior onto you, believing that you are the controlling one. And it would explain why she keeps pushing you away and then pulling you back, as you described last May in your other thread. The push-away and pull-back cycle is one hallmark of a person suffering from strong BPD traits. I explain that in GreenEyedRebel's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3398735#post3398735.

 

When a young woman exhibits that push-away and pull-back cycle repeatedly, other young men run away and don't come back. You, however, are apparently a caregiver like me -- and therefore seem to be attracted to the wounded birds, causing you to move toward the people that others are fleeing from. I discuss this personality trait (codependency) in the above thread too. If that discussion rings a bell and you have any questions, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to online resources that can. Of course, your very best source of information will be a professional, which is why several of us are suggesting you see a therapist. If you don't mind my asking, how old are the two of you, ZZZ?

[betterdeal]

Many people who have a BPD do improve and so do people close to them. I am friends with two women who have BPD diagnosis, one in her 50s, one in her 20s. Having been in a relationship with someone who has a BPD too, I can say that you need support too, and with it you two will have a much better chance of learning and growing together.

 

Your caring nature is not a bad thing or a weakness. It will, however, be best supplemented with an outside perspective on how you are doing, and advice on where your and her boundaries lie.

[Zzz]

Downtown, I cannot express how helpful you've been with this, at all. She got in one of her moods again, and I discussed the idea of BPD, she had a bit of a breakdown, but I comforted her and she said that her mum had a smilar condition, and she acknowledged how wrong she'd been on many occassions. I hope this is progress, I really do. She has said she thinks she has the disorder, so hopefully that's a sign of improvement.

[Downtown]

Zzz, thanks for giving us an update. Your exGF's willingness to acknowledge having strong BPD traits is a very good sign. Because BPD is ego-syntonic (invisible to the sufferer herself), it is unusual for the sufferer to admit even to herself that she has such a flaw. A BPDer hates herself. Hence, the last thing she wants to find is one more item to add to the long list of things she hates about herself.

 

In view of that, her willingness to admit to the strong traits likely means (a) she is low functioning and so miserable that she is desperate to find the cause or (b) she is one of the rare high functioning BPDers who has exceptional self awareness. In either case, her willingness to acknowledge the disorder greatly improves her chance of benefiting from therapy. What remains to be seen is whether she will stay in therapy long enough -- several years at least -- to make a real difference in her behavior. Most BPDers seeking therapy do not.

 

I caution that, if your exGF has strong BPD traits, she is incapable of trusting herself or any other people for any extended period -- she is too unstable to do so. I mention this because it means you cannot trust her. Until she has had several years of therapy (at least), she can turn on you with a vengeance at any time -- and it most likely will happen immediately after you have a great weekend or passionate evening together, because intimacy results in her being very frightened by a feeling of engulfment and suffocation. When that happens, she likely will create an argument over nothing to push you away, giving her breathing room.

 

In any event, I wish the two of you the very best. If you have any questions that arise about dealing with a BPDer, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to an online resource (e.g., BPDfamily.com) that can.

[bikinibeach]

..........hmmm...i wonder how "irrational" she really is...?

 

why did you facebook that girl? who is she? and have you done things in the past that would make your girlfriend suspicious??

[Zzz]

Personally, I feel this was a big overreaction. The story is however I was helping a girl who had recently broken up with her boyfriend try and get back with him. She was just accquaintance, and this was actually the first time I had ever spoken to her, but I felt like I could help and if she rejected my help, so what? It was a worth a go, and consequently it seemed as though I did some good.

 

And Downtown, the idea of her causing an upset over nothing after a brilliant night again rings a massive bell! I actually can't put into words how glad I am that you exist. I mean.. really. You have already been a MASSIVE help, I had never even heard of the condition, and if she is cured I will place big emphasis on YOU. Seriously.. just.. massive thanks to you.

[betterdeal]

Buy a copy of Lost in the Mirror if you'd like to read more about BPD. Personally, I think the term has been used as an insult too much, and is also inaccurate (origin being on the borderline between psychotic and schizophrenic). There's a proposal to rename it Emotional Regulation Disorder, which I think is a good idea.

 

If you get support for yourself from a sympathetic therapist, and maintain very good care of your own boundaries, you will be protecting yourself and her.

[sleepykitten]

Downtown-your posts/replies are so informative and helpful-although I am now a bit worried i have bpd!! I know i am a love addict, have had therapy/rehab 3 mths for this, and am co dependent, this is why i initiated no contact with my ex-on day 5 now as i know i need to break this cycle no matter how much pain i am feeling its about my fear of abandonment/being alone/insecurities, but even knowing this its just so so hard. your posts, insight and knowledge is a great support.

[Tayla]

diagnosing someone by a post is rather risky and really should be left to a face to face professional meeting and testing. I can tell my friends they are being a wee bit neurotic but without a true diagnosis its just words and often "labels" the person instead of resolving the issue.

 

To the OP, you really are a kind soul to stay impartial while your gal is going thru some heart wrenching episodes. Dealing with molestation is a task few can remain around...be her rock when times require and learn to step back ...its a balancing act ...best to you

[Downtown]

If she is cured I will place big emphasis on YOU.

Zzz, thanks for the kind words. Sadly, there is no cure at this time. The treatment programs teach BPDers how to better manage their emotions, how to live in the present instead of escaping into daydreams, and how to intellectually challenge their feelings instead of accepting them as truths. When the BPD traits are strong, this process -- even for the high functioning BPDers -- takes several years at least.

[Downtown]

diagnosing someone by a post is rather risky and really should be left to a face to face professional meeting and testing.

True, but nobody on this thread has attempted a diagnosis. In every field of the medical sciences, a "diagnosis" is the act of looking at symptoms and identifying the disease causing them. Because the same set of symptoms may be caused by a dozen different diseases, there is some danger that a misdiagnosis will result in your being treated for the wrong disease. This is why, on the hundreds of forums dedicated to medical problems, the members oftentimes are critical of another member claiming to know a diagnosis.

 

On those same forums, however, you will see a thousand members talking 24/7 about their symptoms and how severe those symptoms are. And you likely will never see a member chastising someone for "trying to diagnose" when discussing symptoms. Everyone understands that it is perfectly reasonable to discuss the severity of symptoms one is seeing. Indeed, when you go to the doctor's office, the first thing the doctor says is "Tell me what symptoms you have been having."

 

This is why most major medical centers and hospitals have created webpages targeted to laymen explaining the symptoms of various diseases. Those institutions know that the knowledge of symptoms is a good thing because, the more knowledgeable a person is, the quicker he is likely to seek treatment.

 

Yet, when we come here on LoveShack and do exactly the same thing when discussing personality disorder (PD) symptoms, some members object that we are trying to diagnose. The problem is that, when we are talking about a PD such as BPD, many people confuse "symptoms" for "disease." They do not understand that, for PDs, it is impossible to misdiagnose the diseases causing the 10 PDs because THERE ARE NO KNOWN DISEASES. No scientist has yet shown whether the ten PDs are caused by a single disease or, rather, by 20 or 30 different diseases.

 

Clearly, no psychologist with a brain has ever been convinced that the 10 PDs are caused by 10 different diseases. From the beginning, the 10 PDs were intended to be nothing more than classificatory devices that make it easier to discuss the symptoms therapists had been observing for decades as occurring together in patterns. The 9 BPD traits, for example, are nothing more than 9 symptoms that are often seen occurring together, thus forming a recognizable pattern of symptoms (i.e., traits).

 

Tayla, this means that you should feel free to talk about a person's BPD symptoms all day long -- without any fear that you are "misdiagnosing" a disease. There is no known disease. Such discussions are not dangerous. This information will not burn your house down. Indeed, if our discussions of a BPDer partner are going to rise above "kick her to the curb," we cannot avoid discussing symptoms like verbal abuse, inability to trust, inappropriate anger, temper tantrums, constant blaming, lack of impulse control, emotional instability, low self esteem, black-white thinking, and fear of abandonment. Moreover, these symptoms are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about them.

 

Further, the issue is not whether Zzz's GF "has" or "does not have" BPD traits. All adults occasionally exhibit all nine BPD traits. Like fever, tiredness, headache, and itching, the BPD traits are symptoms we all live with. The important issue, then, is whether these traits are so strong that they are undermining his GF's ability to sustain LTRs with close friends and loved ones. Significantly, even when those traits fall well short of the diagnostic criteria, they can destroy a marriage or other LTR. A person satisfying 80% or 90% of the criteria -- who therefore cannot be said to "have the disorder" -- may be just as difficult to live with as a person meeting 100% of the criteria.

I can tell my friends they are being a wee bit neurotic but without a true diagnosis its just words and often "labels" the person instead of resolving the issue.

Your view that, absent a diagnosis, Zzz cannot learn anything useful about BPD traits would be a disastrous course of action for the millions of young people who are dating a BPDer with an eye toward marriage. Young people should be provided this information so they have a prayer's chance of protecting themselves at the very time when they are starting to look for a mate. Millions of them could avoid years, if not a lifetime, of pain and suffering if they were taught how to recognize basic behavioral traits at the very time they are starting to search for compatible mates.

 

This is not rocket science. Before you graduated from high school, you could easily identify the very self-centered and grandiose classmates -- without trying to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify young criminals having a pervasive disregard for other peoples' rights -- without being able to diagnose Antisocial PD. You could recognize extremely shy men -- without rendering a diagnosis of Avoidant PD. You knew when a guy was acting paranoid -- without having a clue as to how paranoid he would have to be to warrant a diagnosis of PPD. And you avoided a few guys because you could see that they were loners who had no interest in social relationships -- without attempting to diagnose Schizoid PD.

 

Why, then, are the nine BPD traits any different? They are surprisingly easy to recognize once you've read about them because everyone has all nine of them. What is difficult is determining whether they are sufficiently severe to warrant a diagnosis of having full-blown BPD. More difficult still is knowing how to treat the disorder effectively. Hence, diagnosis and treatment are the province of professionals.