his lack of a past is a bit of a turnoff

[udolipixie]

Nope.

Actually it's a yep.

 

With the virginity omission and my analogy omissions the behavior is the same.

 

The person is omitting something that they know may affect a person's decision on about them.

 

It shows they aren't straightforward and possibly untrustworthy because they are looking out for their interests only by not letting the person know something that may have them act in a way that doesn't suit their own interests.

 

That they place getting what they want more important then letting the other person know something that may lead to a decision they may not like.

 

So they purposefully omit something because they know it may affect the decision about them in a way they do not want.

 

 

Like before

The person purposefully omitting is now not only taking away the others right to not have something omitted that may affect their decision but now that factor is assumed to be of less importance. So not only is something that may affect their decision is omitted but it's assumed to be of little matter ....why not let the other person decide if they consider it of less importance?

 

The answer because letting them know doesn't suit their needs.

[Queen Zenobia]

This was one of the best posts in the entire thread:

 

See that is where we will have to agree to disagree. I don't really think virginity is something you 'take' like a prize at a concession stand. No one has ever been arrested for theft of virginity. Nor will the taking of virginity cause a vortex in the time-space continuum to appear in the bedroom. The person who is not a virgin is doing the same thing they do every other time. I view it as a simple sexual history issue. Whether that number is 0 or 2000, whether you are their first or they just had a threesome with a donkey and a rodeo clown, it is an issue of whether you want to discuss sexual history or not.

 

Now, this thread is months old. The OP, who was probably scarred by the amount of vitriol leveled in this thread hasn't posted since she posted an update about how she and her bf have worked their issues out. As far I know, that means the problem has been solved.

 

From a personal perspective. My fiance was a virgin before we started dating. He was 22, a senior in college (I was 19 at the time) and he had only kissed two girl before me, never been in a relationship, etc. I never asked him about it and he never asked me about it (I was a virgin too, although I had dated quite a bit). I figured (at the time) of all the things to worry about, sexual experience was fairly low on the list. Today (as a 23 year old) I'm not sure I would feel the same. But, I highly doubt that I would turn away a good catch in every other aspect of what I'm looking for (or pretty close to it) just because he had a low amount of sexual or relationship experience.

 

As for lying. Is it deceitful? Sure. Is it manipulative? Somewhat. But, given our sex-crazed society virgins (of both sexes are routinely viewed in a negative light. Remember the 40 Year Old Virgin with Steve Carell was a comedy not a romantic drama, it was made for us to laugh at. If a guy has trouble attracting women or getting a date and feels like lying to avoid repetitive celibacy then I say so be it. Like Sanman said above, it's not really going to effect anyone negatively. It's a small understandable lie. Given the trouble many posters on here have (Somedude, 49322, etc.) if lying would help them get through the door, the fact that they sound like pretty good guys makes the positives outweigh the negatives. Just my opinion though. Carry on with outrageous comparisons and obtuse positions if you want.

[udolipixie]

The whole student/teacher analogy seems flawed -- and insulting to whomever is deemed the "student". If this issue is such a big deal, I don't understand why the OP just doesn't move on.

 

Seems flawed and demeaning to you because most likely you picture the student as being subordinate, less than, or having lesser rights/power than the teacher.

 

Though I pretty much made it clear that one is not succeeding power to the other but rather that the student is learning and that the teacher is not doing all the teaching but learns from the student as well. Not to mention that the teacher isn't setting up rules for the student to obey but will accommodate the student as well.

 

I understand that guys are supposed to be a little more experienced,

I didn't get that understanding.

 

I know what you meant but I don't have gender experience requirements. That's like saying I understand that girls are supposed to be a little less experienced.

 

 

and even if you leave out the question of how a guy is supposed to get experienced without having a first one

 

He's supposed to get experience by find a girl who is attracted to him and likes him and being straightforward with her.

 

He doesn't need to tell her anything but he shouldn't have this mindset that he won't be telling her of his inexperience because he won't get what he wants.

 

This is the point I'm talking about omitting because it suits your interests is usually bad. Omitting because it suits your interests and because you are aware that it knowledge of whatever factor may lead to a person making a decision you don't want is deceptive and indicates that you may be untrustworthy. Why? You are looking out for your only interests by omitting so that there's no possibility that the person makes a decision that doesn't suit your interest. You place more importance on getting what you want than letting the person may a decision you may not like.

 

 

, why would a woman be drawn to a guy who has so much less experience than her, anyway? Is it just an ego trip?

Not sure which one applies

 

1. * If you meant this in the way of would a guy ever date a fat chick*

Plenty of girls would be drawn to a guy who has less or no experience based on his character, looks, and personality.....and...not or....and....all three are necessary to some degree.

 

2. *If you meant like why would a girl specifically target these types.*

As for why girls would specifically be drawn to less or no experience guys

I''ll discuss my experiences with my friends and the people I know.

 

Four girls loves to be the first they think it holds special value to the guy and he'll remember her always....

 

One likes to be the first because she thinks it makes her more in control..these guys are quickly replaced after 3 months...literally each one 3 months...she's no dominatrix I think she just have serious issues with being penetrated and feeling vulnerable

 

Three who have vrigin guys liked being the first because he's all hers....territorial?...oddly enough they don't have jealous issues or problems with him looking at p*rn...though one of their bfs wants to try other women so that he's all hers is just bs and the two others will probably soon crumble realizing it's just bs

[ascendotum]

That's like in my analogy the herpes girl deciding that having herpes isn't that big of a deal so she omitted it because she knew it would affect the decision to sex her and she assumed it was of less importance instead of letting the person decide for themselves.

 

With herpes its not like you can rub a bit of ointment on it and thats the end of that. If the guy's inexperience causes some difficulties or consternation for the girl, she can give him the 'this is not working for me' goodbye speach, and find herself another guy who's less trepid with romance. Herpes, the guys got that for life and takes it with him into his next relationships.

 

If these consequences as so less of an issue why the need to purposefully omit or hid it.

As for omitting it, there's a chance he's been upfront a few times in the past, and has noticed that the girl has suddenly had a change of heart in her enthusiasm for him, and quite likely given his inexperience, girls that he likes that happen to also like him, don't come along all that often, and he wants to get out of a catch-22 pattern. (if he pulls it off, hey he's got a GF, and if it fails, then he's had a GF/experience, still a ok outcome)

Maybe he has overheard conversations of women discussing guys who dont have much experience as losers, and wants to circumvent this preconceived view and present himself to the girl on his own merits, before revealing the truth. An inexperienced guy by his nature is likely to not consider his inexperience to be big deal for his ability to be a loving BF, and would view it as only being a big deal in terms of the stigma it has with some (IDK..maybe most?) women.

Edited September 26, 2011 by ascendotum

[udolipixie]

Nope.

It's a yep

 

The person is omitting something that they know may affect a person's decision on about them in a way they do not want.

 

 

You're only phrasing this to promote consciously lying to someone instead of telling the truth about something, which is really not even a big deal. Virginity is stereotyped by sl*ts.

 

What have you been reading? . I'm not promoting it. I'm talking about not omitting aka consciously lying to someone.

 

 

Nope.

If it's no....

 

They why say I'm not telling her because it might turn her off? I won't tell her because she might judge me on this and then I'll never have experience? Why don't they tell their partner? Why not have the mindset to of I only need to be STD free...kid free for some... vs the mindset of don't tell her or it'll turn her off/ruin chances/might scare her off.

 

With the mindset of going into dating not telling/omitting girls this info because it might turn them off, ruin your chances, or scare them off you are doing a yep to:

Showing you aren't straightforward and possibly untrustworthy because you are looking out for your interests only by not letting the person know something that may have you act in a way that doesn't suit your own interests. You are placing getting what you want more important then letting the other person know something that may lead to a decision you may not like.

[praxisdorian]

Personally, Until I was in my late 20s, I wasn't interested in a relationship. I was too busy hanging out with the guys, rockclimbing, camping, scuba diving, etc...

 

Being the type person I am, I wasn't interested in pretending to have a relationship just to get a woman in bed. Certainly there were times in my life that "things" just happened. But, as far as relationships go, I didn't seriously begin to seek that till I was 25.

 

Understanding that women seduce and men chase, I don't think that his lack of experience should be of concern. If you have chemistry with him and he's not a total ignoramus in the bedroom (or elsewhere), you should be able to get him wherever you want. Don't be under the illusion that the onus is entirely upon him. It's requires work on your part. In other words don't fall into the trap that you can be whatever you want, just lay on your back, and that he will automatically be able to read your mind and perform to some illusory standard that you have set.

 

If making love were rocket science, the human race would be doomed.

 

Perhaps his inexperience speaks more of a man of character than a man that is unimaginative.

[Floridaman]

I think experienced women are intimidated by virgin men.

Some do, but I don't think that's universally true.

 

Wasn't a virgin at 30 ... had all of 2X 19-29 and 3X in HS...

When my future wife & I began to ML for the first time (she was mid-30s), experience didn't really come up at the critical moment. Didn't feel weak or like I needed to tell her I was inexperienced....

 

Oddly, I'm the one that brought up past experience.

Just as we were taking off our clothes, I asked if she was a virgin.

 

Now, I don't know why I asked it that way. Or why it was so important I have an answer to that specific area.

Should have phrased it differently, like "Do you have a lot of sexual experience?."

 

Didn't really need to know if she was or wasn't -- here we were about to ML and I ask that kind of question.

 

The only thing that was really important was here she was with her arms around me, kissing me and ready to give her body to me ....

I didn't matter how many she'd been with.

 

She simply told me she wasn't.

It didn't make me think any less of her not being this Good Girl Christian virgin and we enjoyed each other.

....She still was a Good Christian Girl, just not a virgin. A woman can be a Good Girl and not be a virgin, as Christian women have needs too....

We did talk about our experiences more later (just generalities, not specifics).

 

 

Bec. I had sex too early at 17, that somehow makes me better than a 26-30 y.o. guy or gal who hasn't? 13 y.o.s now have sex.

 

Me having the "I've Had Sex" membership card makes me a better dating prospect?

 

Virgins aren't necessarily better than non-virgins.

Those who have had sex aren't automatically superior to the virgins.

 

Have seen woman after woman in other threads say they'd prefer a virgin to a guy who got his experience through a whorehouse or many casual ONS.

 

It's all a matter of opportunities and life choices .... and the kind of person one is.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Floridaman

[udolipixie]

With herpes its not like you can rub a bit of ointment on it and thats the end of that. If the guy's inexperience causes some difficulties or consternation for the girl, she can give him the 'this is not working for me' goodbye speach, and find herself another guy who's less trepid with romance. Herpes, the guys got that for life and takes it with him into his next relationships.

 

I think you missed the point. I already addressed it's not that hey the severity of the omission means it's okay when the behavior is extremely similar.

 

Sum it up: it's the behavior. This person is purposefully omitting something because letting me know might mean he may not get what he wants. So him getting what he wants is more important than the possibility of me making a decision that doesn't suit his needs.

 

It's this assumption that the consequences of of lesser importance so it's okay to omit something that may affect a person's decision about you. The person purposefully omitting is now not only taking away the others right to not have something omitted that may affect their decision but now that factor is assumed to be of less importance. So not only is something that may affect their decision is omitted but it's assumed to be of little matter ....why not let the other person decide if they consider it of less importance?

 

If these consequences as so less of an issue why the need to purposefully omit or hid it.

 

As for omitting it, there's a chance he's been upfront a few times in the past, and has noticed that the girl has suddenly had a change of heart in her enthusiasm for him, and quite likely given his inexperience, girls that he likes that happen to also like him, don't come along all that often, and he wants to get out of a catch-22 pattern. (if he pulls it off, hey he's got a GF, and if it fails, then he's had a GF/experience, still a ok outcome)

Maybe he has overheard conversations of women discussing guys who dont have much experience as losers, and wants to circumvent this preconceived view and present himself to the girl on his own merits, before revealing the truth.An inexperienced guy by his nature is likely to not consider his inexperience to be big deal for his ability to be a loving BF, and would view it as only being a big deal in terms of the stigma it has with some (IDK..maybe most?) women.

Just because it benefits your needs doesn't mean it's okay to purposefully omit something that you know may affect a person's decision..and it is know because if it wasn't you wouldn't be purposefully omitting it.

 

It's not okay to purposefully omit something because you want a person to suit your needs and because telling them it may cause them to make a decision that doesn't suit your needs.

 

Reveal the truth....also not okay to play on emotional bonding to get that person to overlook the fact that you chose not to tell them something that you knew may affect their decision to be with you.

 

As for the not likely to consider it a big deal...so not only is he omitting to ensure that there is no possibility of that factor having the girl make a decision he doesn't want. He is also deciding for her that it's of little importance..when he knows if it was of such little importance he wouldn't be omitting it...and if even if he thinks she may consider it important he gets to decide why she thinks it is aka stigma.

 

By your post a woman can justify not telling her partner about her herpes because when she told her previous partners they lost interest due to the STD and guys don't come along all that often. She's overheard conversations of men discussing girls with stds calling them sluts, and wants to circumvent this preconceived view and present herself to the guy on her own merits, before revealing the truth. She doesn't consider her herpes to be a big deal for her ability to he a loving GF, and would view it as only a big deal to those who have the slut stigma or are unaware of the ways to minimize the risks.

[Queen Zenobia]

I think you missed the point. I already addressed it's not that hey the severity of the omission means it's okay when the behavior is extremely similar.

 

Sum it up: it's the behavior. This person is purposefully omitting something because letting me know might mean he may not get what he wants. So him getting what he wants is more important than the possibility of me making a decision that doesn't suit his needs.

 

 

 

 

Just because it benefits your needs doesn't mean it's okay to purposefully omit something that you know may affect a person's decision..and it is know because if it wasn't you wouldn't be purposefully omitting it.

 

It's not okay to purposefully omit something because you want a person to suit your needs and because telling them it may cause them to make a decision that doesn't suit your needs.

 

Reveal the truth....also not okay to play on emotional bonding to get that person to overlook the fact that you chose not to tell them something that you knew may affect their decision to be with you.

 

As for the not likely to consider it a big deal...so not only is he omitting to ensure that there is no possibility of that factor having the girl make a decision he doesn't want. He is also deciding for her that it's of little importance..when he knows if it was of such little importance he wouldn't be omitting it...and if even if he thinks she may consider it important he gets to decide why she thinks it is aka stigma.

 

By your post a woman can justify not telling her partner about her herpes because when she told her previous partners they lost interest due to the STD and guys don't come along all that often. She's overheard conversations of men discussing girls with stds calling them sluts, and wants to circumvent this preconceived view and present herself to the guy on her own merits, before revealing the truth. She doesn't consider her herpes to be a big deal for her ability to he a loving GF, and would view it as only a big deal to those who have the slut stigma or are unaware of the ways to minimize the risks.

 

Virginity does not affect the other person at all. Herpes and other STDs do. If someone lies about their inexperience it doesn't hurt anyone in and of itself.

 

By your own logic men who reach a certain age as virgins are going to have a very hard time finding anyone to date, since the number of women who will be ok with it will be quite low. That puts those particular men at a disadvantage right off the bat regardless of any other characteristics. I don't see how they would have any other choice but lie other than a) dating someone they weren't attracted to only because she was into them (unfair to both parties) or b) live as lifelong celibates. Is that what you are going for?

[udolipixie]

Virginity does not affect the other person at all. Herpes and other STDs do. If someone lies about their inexperience it doesn't hurt anyone in and of itself.

 

I'm not talking about the consequences I'm talking about the behavior. If it didn't affect the other person and was so inconsequential why not tell the person then?

 

I'm just not with lying or choosing to omit because it may ruin your chances because:

1. just because it benefits your needs doesn't mean it's okay to purposefully omit something that you know may affect a person's decision in a way that doesn't suit your needs

 

2. it's not okay to to say it's of no consequence or that it doesn't really matter...if that were the case you wouldn't be omitting would you ...I'm not for someone deciding for another person what's importance...when they knows if it was of such little importance they wouldn't be omitting it...definitely not okay with them deciding even if that person considers it important they get to decide it's only important for a trivial reason.

 

 

Especially when that decision is made on the fact that telling that person may result in a decision that doesn't get them what they want.

 

I'm just not with a behavior that has a person purposefully omitting someone so there's no chance that the factor won't cause the other person to make a decision they don't want. Then claiming that factor is of no importance and even if it is importance tot he person it's for a trivial reason.

 

 

By your own logic men who reach a certain age as virgins are going to have a very hard time finding anyone to date, since the number of women who will be ok with it will be quite low. That puts those particular men at a disadvantage right off the bat regardless of any other characteristics. I don't see how they would have any other choice but lie other than a) dating someone they weren't attracted to only because she was into them (unfair to both parties) or b) live as lifelong celibates. Is that what you are going for?

 

My logic is to lie or adopt the mindset going into dating not telling/omitting girls this info because it might turn them off, ruin your chances, or scare them off.

 

I see another choice:

 

Why not have the mindset to of I only need to be STD free...kid free for some... vs the mindset of don't tell her or it'll turn her off/ruin chances/might scare her off.

 

With the mindset of going into dating not telling/omitting girls this info because it might turn them off, ruin your chances, or scare them off you are doing a yep to:

Showing you aren't straightforward and possibly untrustworthy because you are looking out for your interests only by not letting the person know something that may have you act in a way that doesn't suit your own interests. You are placing getting what you want more important then letting the other person know something that may lead to a decision you may not like.

 

With this mindset of I only need to be STD free..kid free for some...it's healthier, less deceptive, and there's no purposeful omission because you want her decision to go your way.

 

So go about being STD free...kid free for some..have sex. If the topic comes up don't lie. If it doesn't come up there's no need to tell her later on because it's just about being STD free..kid free for some.

[Queen Zenobia]

I'm not talking about the consequences I'm talking about the behavior. If it didn't affect the other person and was so inconsequential why not tell the person then?

 

 

Well, should you also disclose that you broke your arm when you were 5? Or you had your wisdom teeth removed when you were 17? Or, when you were a toddler you used to eat your boogers? Or you once hit a home run playing little league baseball? Where does the disclosure requirement end? Who makes the decision of what's relevant and what isn't?

[Emilia]

Highly experienced women pretend to be inexperienced and inexperienced men pretend to have experience.

 

....

 

I think experienced women are intimidated by virgin men.

 

I can tell you on both accounts that you are completely wrong. I want good sex. That comes from experience. Men can tell that I have experience therefore it's pointless to lie about it. Many seek me out because they gather that I have experience (I'm 39) and they like that and the feeling is mutual (although of course experience itself is not enough, you need to have the right personality and sensitivity to 'get' the other person).

[udolipixie]

Well, should you also disclose that you broke your arm when you were 5? Or you had your wisdom teeth removed when you were 17? Or, when you were a toddler you used to eat your boogers? Or you once hit a home run playing little league baseball? Where does the disclosure requirement end? Who makes the decision of what's relevant and what isn't?

 

The difference here is that the person is lying or purposefully omitting because they know it may affect the persons decision of them in a way they do not want.

 

In this case the person omitting or lying is making the decision of what's relevant and what isn't. They are the ones who have the mindset of lie or omit because it might ruin my chances so therefore it isn't relevant.

 

 

Most people would like to know things that may affect their decision to continue dating the person....life details aren't necessary but sexual past for some is kind of necessary.

[......]

3. Then there's the fact that I dislike purposefully omitting something because you feel it may affect a person's decision about you.

 

Thought I was making it very clear that it wasn't about revealing all life details but choosing to lie or omit details that you know may affect a person's decision in a way that you do not want it to.

[AHardDaysNight]

Wait, they worked their issues out?

 

Then I take back everything I said. I suppose I need to read things more clearly.

 

As far as projecting, like udolipixie said, I suppose I am. However, I feel that there is something seriously wrong with a girl who holds the viewpoint that virginity is a dealbreaker...and there are lots of those girls around, it seems.

[udolipixie]

Wait, they worked their issues out?

 

Then I take back everything I said. I suppose I need to read things more clearly.

 

As far as projecting, like udolipixie said, I suppose I am. However, I feel that there is something seriously wrong with a girl who holds the viewpoint that virginity is a dealbreaker...and there are lots of those girls around, it seems.

 

Seriously wrong meh I'm more on the deceptive self centered/serving behavior and self justification it rather than common human nature of shallowness.

 

I'd be the same if a woman was lying or omitting something that she knows may affect a guy's decision in dating her:

her fertility

 

her age....I think most women are aware of ageism yet plenty lie or omit...aka don't talk let him think what he wants because it may ruin her chances.. then act shocked that when it's revealed and he dumps her

 

her sexual history/experience

 

It's better to just bail out if you end up dating a girl like that rather than you banking on her emotionally bonding to you later and her feelings overruling when you lie or purposefully omitting because you know that it may lead to a decision you wouldn't like and deciding for her it's of no importance.

 

Just hold the view that you're just suppose to be STD-free and kid free for some rather than lie/purposefully omit because it may ruin my chances. If she ask be honest. If she doesn't ask there is no need to tell her later on other than perhaps a joke...a guy I knew did that when he wanted to shock the sh*t out of his gf...after all you only need to be STD-free and kid-free.

[AHardDaysNight]

I just don't see what's so shocking about being a virgin, at any age?

 

"Oh honey, sorry you had lots of partners, but I was a virgin when you slept with me when I was 28! Sorry about lying to you, but I thought you wouldn't sleep with me and would dump my ass!"

 

Well, what would happen if he revealed that he was a virgin? She would dump his ass. So isn't it better that he lie, and stay with the girl, rather than have her dump him over her own insecurities?

 

I know you'll come back with some doubletalk on this, so I'm not holding my breath for a rational argument.

[ascendotum]

I'm not talking about the consequences I'm talking about the behavior. If it didn't affect the other person and was so inconsequential why not tell the person then?

There are different degrees when it comes to lies or omissions. Digging into the background of a new BF, and finding out he has a criminal record, would be a big deal if he was busted for growing + selling dope when he was 29, but not so much if he got booked for trespassing when he was 17.

I really do get it that you want to decide what's important or not about a new partner, but you should also get that a guy wants to omit what he does not consider is important in terms of a relationship but realises it has a stigma for many women, and he realises that he he will be rejected because of the stigma alone and not because the woman has had lots of bad experiences with inexperienced guys.

Like some of the women have posted on the 'slut' threads about how they are not going to be forthcoming on their true numbers of sex partners. If I discovered from other people that my GF used to sleep around with any tom, dick or harry when she was drunk when she used to live over the other side of town 5 yrs ago, I am going to be disappointed, but it wont be because she failed to mention this to me. I get that.

 

Also with an STD (life long one) there should be little ambiguity for a person in terms of the significance of this as regards the impact it would have on the other partner. This is not the same when it comes to inexperience be it woman or a guy.

 

Substitute thrush for herpes in your response about a girl omitting something about herself after overhearing guys talking about women, and you would be closer to the mark imo.

[udolipixie]

I just don't see what's so shocking about being a virgin, at any age?

 

"Oh honey, sorry you had lots of partners, but I was a virgin when you slept with me when I was 28! Sorry about lying to you, but I thought you wouldn't sleep with me and would dump my ass!"

 

Well, what would happen if he revealed that he was a virgin? She would dump his ass. So isn't it better that he lie, and stay with the girl, rather than have her dump him over her own insecurities?

 

I know you'll come back with some doubletalk on this, so I'm not holding my breath for a rational argument.

 

Doubletalk you're the only one doubletalking.

 

Just because it suits your needs doesn't mean it's okay to lie or purposefully omit something to get what you want.

 

You're lying/purposefully omitting because it benefits your needs and you know what you're lying/omitting about may affect a person's decision in a way that doesn't suit your needs

 

A wife knows her husband may drop her if she reveals she had an affair so she seals shut and if he asks she lies. So isn't it better than she lie and stay with her husband rather than have him dump him over something she considered inconsequential.

 

Yes inconsequential.

Well, what would happen if he revealed that he was a virgin? She would dump his ass. So isn't it better that he lie, and stay with the girl, rather than have her dump him over her own insecurities?

 

With that right there you are justifying your own lie/purposefully omission to suit your needs and get what you want.

 

Your justification is that your find her considering what you think of no importance can only be for her own insecurities so it's inconsequential.

 

So not only is your need to get what you want more important than letting her know that you know may affect her decision.

 

You're also deciding the importance of that factor and deciding if she finds it important or it would affect her decision making than the reason is trivial.

[AHardDaysNight]

Wait, what?

 

You're actually comparing an affair to virginity?

 

ARE YOU FREAKING MENTAL?

 

In an affair, you are cheating on one person with another. In that sense, you are hurting both the person you're cheating on with and the person you're cheating with. It's a double hurt.

 

In being a virgin, you are hurting nobody. You simply...haven't had sex.

 

I can't believe you brought up that argument. You need to reevaluate what you write before you write it.

[udolipixie]

Wait, what?

 

You're actually comparing an affair to virginity?

 

No. Where did I state the consequences are the same?

 

ARE YOU FREAKING MENTAL?

 

In an affair, you are cheating on one person with another. In that sense, you are hurting both the person you're cheating on with and the person you're cheating with. It's a double hurt.

 

In being a virgin, you are hurting nobody. You simply...haven't had sex.

 

I can't believe you brought up that argument. You need to reevaluate what you write before you write it.

 

I think you read something and overreact then post before reading it in it's entirety and trying to comprehend it. Perhaps your sensitivity to the subject and the fact you admitted a certain state of yours that you are in is affecting this comprehension.

 

Once again it's not the severity of the consequences it the behavior. I've stated this over and over in several other posts.

 

In all the analogies they have purposefully omitted something because they knew it may affect the other person's decision in a way they did not want.

 

[.....]

I am NOT comparing or equating the consequences I am stating the behavior is the same except with the virginity omission emotional bonding is usually what the omitter bank on.

 

The behavior is the self justification & self centered lying/purposefully omission because you know that factor may affect someone else's decision.

 

In both cases:

1. the person is lying or purposefully omitting something they know may factor in anothers decision about them and that decision is most likely to be unfavorable

 

2. they are justifying their lie or omission by deciding for themselves the importance/significance of the factor to the other person

 

Well, what would happen if he revealed that he was a virgin? She would dump his ass. So isn't it better that he lie, and stay with the girl, rather than have her dump him over her own insecurities?

 

With that right there you are justifying your own lie/purposefully omission to suit your needs and get what you want.

 

Your justification is that your find her considering what you think of no importance can only be for her own insecurities so it's inconsequential.

 

So not only is your need to get what you want more important than letting her know that you know may affect her decision.

 

You're also deciding the importance of that factor and deciding if she finds it important or it would affect her decision making than the reason is trivial.

 

In being a virgin, you are hurting nobody. You simply...haven't had sex.

It's not about being a virgin...it's about the fact that one lied or purposefully omitted that detail because they knew it would affect someone's decision about them in a way that tehy would not get what they wanted.

 

It's this you are not hurting anybody that's the because bs lie. This is about dating and involving someone into your life and possibly your future.

 

If it's of such little harm why not tell the truth or do what I state go with the mindset of just being STD-free..and for some kids free.

 

Instead you lie/purposefully omit the truth to get what you want because you know it may be of some importance to the person if they knew and it could hold such importance in their decision that it may end unfavorably for you. So what do you do..you justify that lie/purposeful omission by deciding for that person that factor is of no importance and if it is important to them it is for stigma or trivial reason.

 

Fortunately it often works out because when the reveal is done after all the previous emotional bonding so the omission/lie diminishes in their eyes even it had previously held weight. Sort of like a guy who goes for attractive women but accepts his wives fading beauty because of his feelings for her. Or a gy whose gf puts on some pounds and has a body he wouldn't have gone for in approaches but loves her for it because those pounds are lesser than his feelings for her.

 

It's like girls who post false pictures online and then think appearance doesn't mean much and if it does matter to him it's because he's shallow when he meets me he'll fall in love. They are banking on the bonding done before the reveal to get the other person over their lie/omission.

Unfortunately for these girls most men don't handle that lie/purposeful omission as well.

 

They're not hurting anybody does it mean it's right?

 

Just because you're not hurting anybody does mean your behavior is always right.

Edited September 26, 2011 by udolipixie

[Queen Zenobia]

The difference here is that the person is lying or purposefully omitting because they know it may affect the persons decision of them in a way they do not want.

 

In this case the person omitting or lying is making the decision of what's relevant and what isn't. They are the ones who have the mindset of lie or omit because it might ruin my chances so therefore it isn't relevant.

 

Perhaps. Although one would be somewhat grossed out by the thought of their SO eating boogers, even as a toddler. That being said, I wouldn't expect someone to disclose that and I wouldn't require it.

 

Like the example above though. I mean would you expect someone to disclose that they used to eat boogers, or that they used to have foot fungus? I mean you do know that it would turn the other person off so you omit it as not important. You also don't know why the person is omitting the information. This thread (and others I've seen on LS) would suggest that it's largely to do with women being turned off by male virginity, but having interacted with various posters on here who are older male virgins (or close to it) I suspect there's a large amount of self-loathing involved as well. Unless you think that virginity is in itself a bad thing, omitting it or not should be irrelevant.

 

Wait, they worked their issues out?

 

Then I take back everything I said. I suppose I need to read things more clearly.

 

As far as projecting, like udolipixie said, I suppose I am. However, I feel that there is something seriously wrong with a girl who holds the viewpoint that virginity is a dealbreaker...and there are lots of those girls around, it seems.

 

Yes they did, at least according to the OP's update. She hasn't shown up since so who knows now.

 

There is something seriously wrong with someone who thinks virginity is a "dealbreaker" I agree. There are multiple aspects of one's self that makes one person a good match for another. If the fact that someone is a virgin by itself regardless of any other issues is a dealbreaker then I think the person who believes that has serious priority mismanagement. Now, that doesn't mean that all women should have absolutely no issue with male virgins, nor that they would prefer them either. Merely that fact alone should not be the end all be all of factors.

 

That being said the title of this thread is that his inexperience was "a bit of a turnoff". Now, I have no idea what "a bit" means to the OP. She could have had total revulsion (highly doubtful considering she posted it seeking answers) or merely found it somewhat distressful. Who knows. She did say in all posts that she didn't seek to end their relationship though FWIW. Just like all threads people read the OP and decided to bring their own issues and perspectives into it which tainted their responses.

[udolipixie]

1.

Perhaps. Although one would be somewhat grossed out by the thought of their SO eating boogers, even as a toddler. That being said, I wouldn't expect someone to disclose that and I wouldn't require it.

 

Thought I was making it very clear that it wasn't about revealing all life details but choosing to lie or omit details that you know may affect a person's decision in a way that you do not want it to.

 

 

 

2.

Like the example above though. I mean would you expect someone to disclose that they used to eat boogers, or that they used to have foot fungus? I mean you do know that it would turn the other person off so you omit it as not important. You also don't know why the person is omitting the information. This thread (and others I've seen on LS) would suggest that it's largely to do with women being turned off by male virginity, but having interacted with various posters on here who are older male virgins (or close to it) I suspect there's a large amount of self-loathing involved as well.

 

A) Once again the person doing the lying or purposeful omitting is aware that there is a high chance that it would turn the person off so they purposefully chose to omit or lie.

 

The reason why the person is omitting is clear because I'm not talking about omission...I'm talking about purposefully omitting or liying because you know it will ruin your chances or may affect the person's decision in a way that you don't want it to and it's not just life details but factors that often come into play when you're in a relationship or bilding one and involving someone in your life like STDs, fertility, sexual compatibility, kids, sexual history, sexual tastes.

 

Also thought I gave a clear view of the mind set of the guys so the reason why they are omitting is clear aka guys who have the mindset to purposefully omit or lie because their virginity is something that can ruin their chances, turn them off, scare them off.

 

* edited to put my logic is to not

My logic is to not lie or adopt the mindset going into dating not telling/omitting girls this info because it might turn them off, ruin your chances, or scare them off.

 

I see another choice:

 

With this mindset of I only need to be STD free..kid free for some...it's healthier, less deceptive, and there's no purposeful omission because you want her decision to go your way.

 

So go about being STD free...kid free for some..have sex. If the topic comes up don't lie. If it doesn't come up there's no need to tell her later on because it's just about being STD free..kid free for some.

 

 

The best comparison would be:

It's like girls who post false pictures online and then think appearance doesn't mean much and if it does matter to him it's because he's shallow when he meets me he'll fall in love. They are banking on the bonding done before the reveal to get the other person over their lie/omission.

 

B) I thought I made it clear that it was known or suspected that she is highly likely to make an unfavorable decision if the information was included.

 

The behavior is the self justification & self centered lying/purposefully omission because you know that factor may affect someone else's decision.

 

In both cases:

1. the person is lying or purposefully omitting something they know may factor in anothers decision about them and that decision is most likely to be unfavorable

 

2. they are justifying their lie or omission by deciding for themselves the importance/significance of the factor to the other person

 

 

I thought I made it clear that it was known or suspected that she is highly likely to make an unfavorable decision if the information was included.

You're lying to suit your needs. You're making the decision of whether it is of importance to her and even if it is important to her it's dismissed as trivial or stigma based reasoning. Along with he fact that the reveal is done after emotional bonding to bank on the fact that her emotions for you are stronger than any if she did have them.

 

Unless you think that virginity is in itself a bad thing, omitting it or not should be irrelevant.

 

It's is relevant if you purposefully omit it or lie about it because you knew that telling the truth may lead to her making a decision that doesn't suit your interests.

[udolipixie]

Just because you're not hurting anybody does mean your behavior is always right.

 

It should be state "Just because you're not hurting anybody doesn't mean your behavior is always right"

[fortyninethousand322]

It's is relevant if you purposefully omit it or lie about it because you knew that telling the truth may lead to her making a decision that doesn't suit your interests.

 

So what? The OP in this thread basically got a brand new car and was a bit upset because she was deceived into thinking it was actually a used one. I'm glad she got over it because otherwise I would find that really petty and stupid. People who hold virginity against others are immoral. So I suppose the OP and her boyfriend are perfect for each other. She would have preferred a non-virgin and he lied, two morally suspect people dating each other. Case closed.

 

No one should have to reveal sexual history unless there's an STD involved though.

[FrustratedStandards]

I think you're wrong, yes.

 

First of all, because you're his first etc, he will be loyal. If he isn't the kind to go around and sleep around, thats a great thing.

 

AND, since you're his first, he will learn to do everything (kiss and have sex) the way he learns with you. And the way he learns with you will be the way you enjoy it, so you won't have any complaints that he is doing something you don't enjoy.

 

I've realized overtime that personality has a lot to do with it. If you're ugly but outgoing, then u will sleep around. If you're absolutely drop dead gorgeous but very shy, you will stay him. It's crazy how that works.

 

I have dated men who have had a lot of experience, and although the sex was good, it was still a turnoff knowing how many women he had sex with before getting to me.

 

I think you should hold on to this guy, especially since after being so quiet and reserved he opened up to YOU. That's very important, and you are valuable to him because of this.

 

I wouldn't let this one go. At least not for this reason.