his lack of a past is a bit of a turnoff

[Eeyore79]

I've been with a virgin before. After the first few sessions he got over his nervousness and he was way better in bed than anyone else I had ever been with. I really don't understand why someone would judge a guy for being a virgin; he's obviously clean, he doesn't sleep around, he has no baggage, and he probably has some respect for women because he doesn't go around treating them like tissues for him to deposit his sperm into.

 

He's probably just either really picky (so it's flattering that he picked me), or really shy (which I don't think is a big deal, he just needs a bit of encouragement). If you like someone as a person, I really don't see why it's relevant that he never put his penis in another woman before?

[udolipixie]

So what? The OP in this thread basically got a brand new car and was a bit upset because she was deceived into thinking it was actually a used one. I'm glad she got over it because otherwise I would find that really petty and stupid.

 

It's this whole assumption that because you think it's a good think or inconsequential that someone else should and if the don't agree with you they they are wrong.

 

Just because you see it a basically getting a brand new car doesn't mean everyone has to...also you're not getting one it happened to. If a girl think that having a virgin male would suck she has the right to feel that..if she's dating one, he's hiding the fact he's one because he knows what it will lead to, and she suddenly found out from a close friend that he's a virgin then she has the right to dump him for it.

Petty and stupid? Depends on who you ask.

 

Wrong? Depends on who you ask.

 

Does she have the right to date who she wants and pursue her preferences? yes if those preferences are legal

 

Is he wrong for trying to override her right to date who she wants & pursue her preferences with his need to get what he want? Pretty much

 

You can think your preference is better than someone elses. You can think someone else's preference is stupid, shallow, and petty its still wrong to purposefully omit/lie when you know that there is a high chance or that it may affect their decision about you.

 

Though the best comparison to a guy purposefully lying or omitting his virginity because he feels it may ruin his chances of getting what he wants is:

It's like girls who post false pictures online and then think appearance doesn't mean much and if it does matter to him it's because he's shallow when he meets me he'll fall in love. They are banking on the bonding done before the reveal to get the other person over their lie/omission.

 

People who hold virginity against others are immoral.

I prefer shallow. People will have their preferences and as long as it's not violence without consent, forcing without consent, and children it's all meh.

 

Also if these people are so immoral a guy should be happy if a girl dumps him for being a virgin after all why get stuck with someone who is immoral.

 

The immoral aspect shows a little bit of logic failure because if the people who have this preference are so bad wouldn't it be best to just yell it from the rooftops so you can avoid them? Yet what is advised- for guys to purposefully omit and lie about their virginity because it'll ruin the chances of them getting what they want. It's really about their preferences are bad so it justifies lying or purposefully omitting it to get what you want. Therefore you get to decide which preferences you don't want to have to be judged on because your desire to get what you want overrides anothers desire to date who they want & pursue their preferences.

 

 

No one should have to reveal sexual history unless there's an STD involved though.

 

Have you been reading what I've been posting?

 

I haven't stated that people should reveal their sexual history. In fact my yelling from the rooftops is the only implication of that and that is in this post and most recent.

* edited to put my logic is to not

My logic is to not lie or adopt the mindset going into dating not telling/omitting girls this info because it might turn them off, ruin your chances, or scare them off.

 

I see another choice:

 

With this mindset of I only need to be STD free..kid free for some...it's healthier, less deceptive, and there's no purposeful omission because you want her decision to go your way.

 

So go about being STD free...kid free for some..have sex. If the topic comes up don't lie. If it doesn't come up there's no need to tell her later on because it's just about being STD free..kid free for some.

 

 

I'm against the self justification of self centered purposeful omission and lying.

 

I'm against going into dating with the mindset of I'm going to omit or lie about this because if I don't it'll ruin my chances, scare her off, or turn her off.

 

I dislike the self-justification of saying:

1. since it's of little importance to me... yeah right if it was you wouldn't be so against telling the person if it was...I decide if it's relevant despite the fact that I know it may be relevant because I'm choosing to omit it since she may use it to make a decision I don't like.

2. even if she/he thinks it's relevant itheir reasoning is shallow, trivial, or from some stigma...you brand new car statement would fit perfect right here. Plus I"ll use the emotional bonding later on to ensure their feelings towards me overweighs any importance or significance that preferencee had from the start...like a bf brushing off the pounds his gf

 

I dislike the self centered aspect of deciding that your need to get what you want overrides telling her/his something that you know has a high chance of her/his making an unfavorable decision because that decision doesn't suit your needs.

Edited September 26, 2011 by udolipixie

[fortyninethousand322]

I dislike the self centered aspect of deciding that your need to get what you want overrides telling her/his something that you know has a high chance of her/his making an unfavorable decision because that decision doesn't suit your needs.

 

Because if you don't omit the virginity you'll never get a chance with ANY girl. Odds are most women do not like virgins. All the girls who are open to dating virgins are most likely open to dating non-virgin men as well. So, inexperienced guys are at a complete disadvantage due to no fault of their own. They were simply just a bit unlucky or have a little bit of awkwardness.

 

Or let me guess, if a girl asks me if she looks bad in her dress (and she does) I'm supposed to answer honestly?

[udolipixie]

Because if you don't omit the virginity you'll never get a chance with ANY girl.

Exaggerating but if it came to that is your desire to get what you want more than her desire to date who she wants & pursue her preferences?

 

Especially if you consider her immoral for having such a preference?

 

There's a better choice than this self-justification to try to roundabout someone's preferences long enough for them to build an emotional attachment and hopefully their feeling are stronger for you than their preferences.

 

Odds are most women do not like virgins.

 

Just because someone may dislike it not a justification to purposefully omit or lie about something to place more importance on you getting what you want than the person you're omitting/lying to possibly not getting what they want....especially when you're going to be dating possibly building a relationship and even a future with that person.

 

Big difference from a guy who just doesn't mention anal sex to a guy who knows there are girls who dislike anal sex so he purposefully omits/lies about it.

 

 

All the girls who are open to dating virgins are most likely open to dating non-virgin men as well. So, inexperienced guys are at a complete disadvantage due to no fault of their own. They were simply just a bit unlucky or have a little bit of awkwardness.

Being disadvantaged is not a justification to purposefully omit or lie about something to place more importance on you getting what you want than the person you're omitting/lying to possibly not getting what they want...especially when you're going to be dating possibly building a relationship and even a future with that person.

 

An obese girl being disadvantaged does not justify her putting up false pics lying about here obesity or omitting her obesity in conversations.

 

Odd how people place more value in getting what they want by being dishonest than the person they're dating possible building a relationship with and even a future with not getting want they want.

 

Or let me guess, if a girl asks me if she looks bad in her dress (and she does) I'm supposed to answer honestly?

I think you're mistaking the concept here just because honesty is in both situations.

 

The concept is one person is purposeful being dishonest/deceptive to a person about something they know to be a weakness/disliked/disadvantaged in general and it's highly likely that the person also views it as the general does. They use this disadvantaged angle to justify being dishonest about it and then further state that it would be wrong for the person to have a preference against their disadvantage.

 

I'm stating that guys shouldn't go that concept or with the mindset of omit/lie because it'll ruin my chances and I'm justified in doing it because getting what i want is more important then her not getting what she wants because what she wants is stupid anyway.

 

I'm stating to go with the mindset of all I have to be is STD-free...kid free for some.. If she asks be honest. If she doesn't ask no need to tell her.

Just hold the view that you're just suppose to be STD-free and kid free for some rather than lie/purposefully omit because it may ruin my chances. If she ask be honest. If she doesn't ask there is no need to tell her later on other than perhaps a joke...a guy I knew did that when he wanted to shock the sh*t out of his gf...after all you only need to be STD-free and kid-free.

 

 

 

 

Though the best comparison to a guy purposefully lying or omitting his virginity because he feels it may ruin his chances of getting what he wants:

It's like girls who post false pictures online and then think appearance doesn't mean much and if it does matter to him it's because he's shallow when he meets me he'll fall in love. They are banking on the bonding done before the reveal to get the other person over their lie/omission.

* both parties are going into it thinking I have X factor that may ruin my chances so I'm purposefully going to omit it/lie about it

Rather than just having the STD-free..kid free for some mindset or just not posting a picture

 

* both parties are putting more importance on getting what they what rather than the preferences person they are omitting/lying to right to know X factor that will or may affect that person's decision on them because if they included X factor that they have a high chance of not getting what they want

By purposefully omitting/lying because it'll ruin your chances..by giving a false picture because a true picture it'll your chances

 

* both parties are devaluing the importance of the person's preference

By stating it's shallow, petty, stupid, and thinking in the end their emotional investment should matter more than preferences they roundabout

[fortyninethousand322]

Exaggerating but if it came to that is your desire to get what you want more than her desire to date who she wants & pursue her preferences?

 

Well if she was otherwise into me and we were getting along I wouldn't do anything (up to and including omitting my sexual inexperience) to jeopardize that. Obviously if there was some kind of major issue of compatibility or whatever, that is subject to change.

 

I would love to be honest with women about my sexual inexperience (and may in fact be honest when/if I should ever get to that point) but given the fact that virginity is the only glaring negative for me I don't see the downside to lying/omitting. I know you're going to say "some women might not like me for some other reason, I might not be attractive to all women" etc. Which I know is true, but everyone has their own preferences there's nothing major I can change except my inexperience.

 

Perhaps it makes me selfish. Quite frankly on the grand scale of things it's not the worst thing anyone's ever done. I'll still be able to sleep well at night.

 

Of course, this is a moot point since I'm never going to get to that point anyway.

[udolipixie]

Well if she was otherwise into me and we were getting along I wouldn't do anything (up to and including omitting my sexual inexperience) to jeopardize that. Obviously if there was some kind of major issue of compatibility or whatever, that is subject to change.

 

Exactly you'd only work in a manner that suits you're best needs until it doesn't. What she finds incompatible or prefers is not as important as what you want.

 

Omitting things she may find you incompatible you because you want to get what you want. It suits you needs to devalue anything she finds an incompatibility unless of course you find it an incompatibility as well.

 

Only doing subject to change if there is something you find incompatible. It suits you to place what you find major incompatibilities as something of importance after all it's about getting what you want.

 

Sort of like how people wouldn't jeopardize something by revealing they're a cheater since it's most likely it will be unfavorable to the person. However that same cheater will free the right to cut off contact if they find out this person had 6 children he did not know about because kids are a big compatibility issue for him.

 

I would love to be honest with women about my sexual inexperience (and may in fact be honest when/if I should ever get to that point) but given the fact that virginity is the only glaring negative for me I don't see the downside to lying/omitting.

 

No you wouldn't. You'd only love to be honest if you could still be assured if you'd get what you want. Most people do not want to be honest in fact most people do not want to be good or decent if it's possible that it may lead to them not getting what they want.

 

That's human nature to behave in a manner that gets then what they want even if it's dishonest/deception. Also human nature to try to rationalize it.

 

I just dislike the promoting of it and the diminishing of it for what it is. Self justified self centered dishonesty and deception to get what you want because it's more important than what you partner may not want.

 

 

I know you're going to say "some women might not like me for some other reason, I might not be attractive to all women" etc. Which I know is true, but everyone has their own preferences there's nothing major I can change except my inexperience.

 

I was going to say self centered and probably try to rationalize it and say it's not as bad as whatever to try to diminish the fact that it's still wrong.

 

It's human nature most people try to hide what others may find undesirable in you because you find it unfair to be judged on that. Since after all it's not about mutual exchange but you getting what you want.

 

Perhaps it makes me selfish. Quite frankly on the grand scale of things it's not the worst thing anyone's ever done. I'll still be able to sleep well at night.

 

Of course you will after all it's about getting what you want and that is more important than your partner getting what she wants if you feel her preferences are unfair.

 

Hope you're also cool with being omitted/lied to and will sleep well at night accepeting any omissions/lies.

 

 

Of course, this is a moot point since I'm never going to get to that point anyway.

You most likely will. There's just a high chance that it will just probably not be with the type of girl you want. Perhaps it's some sort of fair trade.

 

I all seriousness it's only a moot point because of the confidence thing.

Edited September 26, 2011 by udolipixie

[aj22one]

 

You most likely will. There's just a high chance that it will just probably not be with the type of girl you want. Perhaps it's some sort of fair trade.

 

I all seriouslness it's only a moot point because of the confidence thing.

 

Obviously we've been dealing with 49322's issues on this board since he's joined LS, but what exactly does that mean? Are you saying he should lower his standards or that his standards were too lofty to begin with?

[udolipixie]

Obviously we've been dealing with 49322's issues on this board since he's joined LS, but what exactly does that mean? Are you saying he should lower his standards or that his standards were too lofty to begin with?

 

That whether it's by chance meeting, her approaching him, friends introducing, him lowering whatever standards he has most likely he's not going to end up with the type of girl he wanted.

 

Most guys/girls don't get what they want...they either end up miserable, dissatisfied, cont net, happy, or the rare happy and in love.

[Eeyore79]

Because if you don't omit the virginity you'll never get a chance with ANY girl. Odds are most women do not like virgins. All the girls who are open to dating virgins are most likely open to dating non-virgin men as well. So, inexperienced guys are at a complete disadvantage due to no fault of their own.

 

I'd be open to dating virgins or non-virgins. I wouldn't consider virginity to be a disadvantage though; it really doesn't make a difference either way. What's important is whether I like the person. If someone would consider your virginity to be a disadvantage, they're probably not right for you anyway.

[udolipixie]

udolipixie:

I think you make a good points about being truthful at all times, but you are basing your argument on absolutism and that is never healthy.

I'm not sure how I made good points when I never stated people should be truthful at all times.

 

As for absolutism I do not believe certain actions are good or evil, regardless of the context of the act.

 

I never stated that people should be truthful at all times.

 

I have repeatedly stated that purposefully omitting/lying about it is self justification & self centered omission/lying to get what you want. It's also placing more importance in getting what you want than a person you're possibly looking for a relationship with getting what they want.

 

I'm not sure what's unhealthy about suggesting that it is not justified to omit/lie about something you know it will/may cause your partner to make a decision that doesn't suit your needs just because your decide it's inconsequential and if your partner finds this preference important it's for a trivial/shallow/stigma reason.

 

Not sure what's unhealthy about suggesting guys to not have the mindset of I have something about me that others may not like and her knowing of it may ruin my chances, turn her off, or her her away so I'm justified in lying/omitting about it because I don't think this thing is a big deal. If she thinks it's a big deal she's wrong and it's for a trivial/shallow/stigma reason.

 

No moral absolution there.

 

There is nothing wrong with virginity. All of us were virgins at one point and the timing of losing the virginity is not important (unless the person is underage).

Quite amusing how people get telling others that it is wrong & self centered to purposefully lie/omit something you know

 

Just because you find nothing wrong with it doesn't mean everyone holds the same opinion.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and they are entitled to theirs.

 

Just like they are entitled to date whoever they want & pursue their preferences if it's legal.

 

You can think it's shallow, petty, or stupid however you're not entitled to

purposefully omit/lie because you have this preference they dislike and know that they will/may make a decision you don't want based on that. To justify it will oh it's shallow/petty is just self centered and allows people to decide whether another persons preferences are of any importance to them. If it's not then they're justified in lying/omitting something that will/may have the person decide something else if they had known.

 

It's also a tad manipulative because most likely the purposefully/omitting person is hoping that the emotional bonding will cover any reveal that happens so by the reveal the person's feelings for them has..sort of like a bf not caring that his gf has gained pounds because he loves her if she was that weight when he met her he would have walked away but he loves her now so it doesn't matter.

 

If nothing's so wrong about it why the mindset that a guy must omit/lie if he's a virgin/inexperience versus the mindset of I just have to be STD-free? That's right because others have different opinions but of course since their opinions don't suit with the person's needs their opinions don't matter an it's justified in lying/omitting because hey it's an opinion that is backed by shallow/petty reasoning.

 

 

 

The ability to be a great lover has no correlation to the timing of losing the virginity.

Not sure why this post is directed at me since i didn't state that it did.

 

Lack of experience in a male is only an issue for veteran women because deep inside the feel a bit slutty next to the virgin guy with no baggage, STDs, etc.

Seem like you're projecting your own issues there.

 

I could say experience in women is an issue for experienced men because deep inside the feel a bit slutty which is why they need an inexperienced girl/virgin. Also that it's an issue for inexperienced men because deep inside they feel non masculine, threatened, emasculated, and deep insecurity about being a great love.

 

Quite funny because lack of experience in a male was an issue for plenty of the virgin girls I knew. ..thankfully those guys were honest about their lacking ability and were dropped due to the virgin girls preferences.

 

 

A man pretending to have experience is no worse than a very experienced woman taking it REALLY slow with a guy and not putting out because she thinks he is a keeper.

 

It is worse. Than man pretending is lying, pretending to be something they're not, and deceiving the other.

 

The importance and the extremity of how wrong lie is relies on whether or not the person that is being lied to considers it important. It's extremely wrong if the man lied and knew she wouldn't be with him if he told her or knew there was a high chance she wouldn't be with him if he told her so he lied.

 

The woman is not lying, pretending to be something they're not, or deceiving the other.

 

Quite frankly I'm amused at how this thread is actually substantiating one of the girls I know who states that it's best to assume all men are either: virgins, rapists, or went to a prostitute. I'll show this to her and around though most likely she'll get it around more than I will she's pretty cliquey and bossy...yep even in college. Yes she's anti male virgin not because they're virgins but because she connects their virginity to them inherent;y being liars to get sex...bit far off more like most are self justified intentional liars/omitters who think what they want is more important than what another person wants.

 

Quite amusing how quick that most are on the defensive with justifying intentional lies/omissions to get what they want because they don't think the other person's preferences are of any importance and if that person finds it importance it's for a petty reason. Rather than the mind set of it's no one's business as long as I'm STD-free.

 

Hope you virgin guys who have the I'm justified lying/omission mindset rather than the no one's business mindset don't run into an STD infected girl who thinks as long as the std is incurable she doesn't have to tell you. After all you can't complain she was justifying lying/omitting to get what she want because she didn't think you preference was of any importance to her and if it is importance it's because you're too judgmental/overreacting.

 

After all you got to purposefully hide/lie about something you knew or suspected she may judge you on that you felt was stupid. You didn't find virginity a big deal so apparently neither should she or she's immoral/petty in your justification.

 

She purposefully hid/lied about something about something she knew or suspected you may judge her on that she felt was stupid. She didn't find STDs a big deal if they're curable so apparently neither should you or you're overreacting/too judgmental in her justification.

 

Cool to have different preferences not cool to me when people purposefully ensure that our preferences don't get to have a weigh in because they find the preference inconsequential despite knowing another person may/will not feel the same. But whatever.

 

Yes those girls exist:

Why do you get to diminish her preferences just because you don't suit it.

 

Would you be okay with a girl never admitting something she considers most men to be so judgmental about?

 

I know plenty of girls who think as long as the STD is curable guys don't need to be so judgmental.

 

I know some guys who are cool with that. I know some who are not. I know some who would murder these girls.

 

What the girls are doing is wrong because of the behavior...not talking about the consequence higher STD rates.

 

They are choosing to lie/never admit to something that they know would affect a person's decision about them just because that factor may cause the decision to be negative.

 

I know one girl who states that all men should be considered to either be virgins, prostitute payers, or rapists. So far you're not doing much to disprove that logic with the it's okay to lie about something if it means that telling her will result in you not getting what you want.

Edited September 26, 2011 by udolipixie
addition

[udolipixie]

This is the essence of your point of view.

Yet repetition after repetition most still did not get it.

 

You do not allow a man the opportunity to present his best side while dating. I have news for you, most virgin men don't go around telling everybody they are virgins.

Nope that's why like I stated one of the girls I know who states that it's best to assume all men are either: virgins, rapists, or went to a prostitute.

 

She also uses this belief to justify women cheating on men and lying to your boyfriend any time you wish.

 

She states if men can lie and try to justify it as showing you his best...lmfao that you two actually used the same phrase...when really he's ensuring that you don't act in a manner that doesn't suit his needs.

 

However, your point of view is quite valid if the man is asked directly about his sexual history and if the female specifically states she does not want to date a virgin man.

 

At least you have some logic unlike the girl I know. She believes even if asked directly most men will lie because getting want they want is their main goal and that most don't even care if she does not want to date a virgin man..by this thread she's not that far off.

 

Otherwise, there is no need for a man to offer facts about virginity unless the female specifically says she dislikes virgin men.

Pretty much what I've been repeating.and repeating.and repeating.

 

Just hold the view that you're just suppose to be STD-free and kid free for some rather than lie/purposefully omit because it may ruin my chances. If she ask be honest. If she doesn't ask there is no need to tell her later on other than perhaps a joke...a guy I knew did that when he wanted to shock the sh*t out of his gf...after all you only need to be STD-free and kid-free.

 

- edit I inserted "not" after my logic is to

I'm not talking about the consequences I'm talking about the behavior. If it didn't affect the other person and was so inconsequential why not tell the person then?

 

I'm just not with lying or choosing to omit because it may ruin your chances because:

1. just because it benefits your needs doesn't mean it's okay to purposefully omit something that you know may affect a person's decision in a way that doesn't suit your needs

 

2. it's not okay to to say it's of no consequence or that it doesn't really matter...if that were the case you wouldn't be omitting would you ...I'm not for someone deciding for another person what's importance...when they knows if it was of such little importance they wouldn't be omitting it...definitely not okay with them deciding even if that person considers it important they get to decide it's only important for a trivial reason.

 

 

Especially when that decision is made on the fact that telling that person may result in a decision that doesn't get them what they want.

 

I'm just not with a behavior that has a person purposefully omitting someone so there's no chance that the factor won't cause the other person to make a decision they don't want. Then claiming that factor is of no importance and even if it is importance tot he person it's for a trivial reason.

 

My logic is to not lie or adopt the mindset going into dating not telling/omitting girls this info because it might turn them off, ruin your chances, or scare them off.

 

I see another choice:

 

 

 

With this mindset of I only need to be STD free..kid free for some...it's healthier, less deceptive, and there's no purposeful omission because you want her decision to go your way.

 

So go about being STD free...kid free for some..have sex. If the topic comes up don't lie. If it doesn't come up there's no need to tell her later on because it's just about being STD free..kid free for some.

 

 

* I see here with not lie where you may have gotten the people should tell the truth though I put or to expand on what specific type of lie I was talking about and I didnt mention any of type of lies instead the ones that fit the criteria...there was even a question about telling a woman if she was fat if she asked a guy did she look fat in this dress.

 

I put:

I think you're mistaking the concept here just because honesty is in both situations.

 

The concept is one person is purposeful being dishonest/deceptive to a person about something they know to be a weakness/disliked/disadvantaged in general and it's highly likely that the person also views it as the general does. They use this disadvantaged angle to justify being dishonest about it and then further state that it would be wrong for the person to have a preference against their disadvantage.

 

 

 

Seems like most focuse on the defensiveness from being call on out their bs of minimizing/excusing purposefully omitting/lying and justifying it. When the behavior is really just getting what I want and making sure her decisions don't hinder it because I find her preferences of little importance. Even if she thinks it's important it's because of a shallow/petty reason.

 

 

By the same token an experienced woman is not expected to tell the male she slept with the entire football, basketball, and hockey team unless the man specifically mentions he is looking for a virgin and questions her about this.

 

Otherwise, the sexual histories are moot.

To you and others. Don't assume everyone's opinions is yours and everyone regards it the same.

Edited September 26, 2011 by udolipixie

[ChangeWeedLaws]

My boyfriend and I have been dating for 6 months. Everything has been great, at first he was somewhat shy and reserved but then he opened up and became more outgoing. Yesterday he revealed to me that I was his first girlfriend, first girl he ever kissed, first girl he did anything with. I’m really confused now. I mean what kind of guy doesn’t date at all until they’re 25? I mean he’s good looking, in shape, smart, funny, has his own place…he is a really good guy. Still though his inexperience is really giving me second thoughts. Am I wrong for feeling really turned off by this or thinking it’s a huge red flag?

 

Maybe he used to suck the stick?

[aj22one]

Seems like most focuse on the defensiveness from being call on out their bs of minimizing/excusing purposefully omitting/lying and justifying it. When the behavior is really just getting what I want and making sure her decisions don't hinder it because I find her preferences of little importance. Even if she thinks it's important it's because of a shallow/petty reason.

 

My example won't have much to do about dating but it's kind of related. A famous writer/scholar named Reza Aslan has said that when he was growing up he would tell his classmates and friends that he was Mexican (instead of Iranian) because he thought that if they knew he was Iranian they would make fun of him and/or wouldn't be friends with him (this was during the height of anti-Iranian sentiment following the 1979 Revolution and the embassy hostage situation). This was clearly a self-serving lie that didn't take into account anyone else's preferences (even if they were somewhat racist/bigoted). Does this type of lie also go against your code of ethics?

[udolipixie]

My example won't have much to do about dating but it's kind of related. A famous writer/scholar named Reza Aslan has said that when he was growing up he would tell his classmates and friends that he was Mexican (instead of Iranian) because he thought that if they knew he was Iranian they would make fun of him and/or wouldn't be friends with him (this was during the height of anti-Iranian sentiment following the 1979 Revolution and the embassy hostage situation). This was clearly a self-serving lie that didn't take into account anyone else's preferences (even if they were somewhat racist/bigoted). Does this type of lie also go against your code of ethics?

 

Nope because that type of lie was about protecting a life. Threat of personal safety with violence and children are always exceptions..I'm hypocritical about children.

 

In case you missed it I posted tons of analogies/examples so you can get an idea of what type of lie fits the whole self justified & self centered purposefully lying/omitting to get what you want despite knowing it will/may factor in someone's decision making while devaluing the importance of the preference to that person.

 

In none of my cases was threat of personal safety with violence an element.

[udolipixie]

udolipixie

 

You are making good points. Thanks for clarifying some issues.

 

I have another question for you.

 

Lets pretend you are a waspy Nordic looking woman that is engaged to a Nordic looking man. You picked this guy because you want your children to look Nordic.

 

Before the wedding day your BF discovers that he is 1/8 black.

 

Will you be upset if he does not reveal this to you?

 

Is he obligated to tell you?

 

How can he tell me something even he wasn't aware of?

 

Obligated to tell me...I'm not surprised...have you really forgotten the entire concept? Then again I'm wondering how you got I was working the moral abolutism angle and that I stated and had good points about people should tell the at all times...kind of odd since I never stated that so not sure how I had good points about it...even questioned you about those two elements.

 

Once again I'm pretty sure most of the scenarios you can cook up are already answered in my previous posts that show examples/analogies that use the criteria. Aj22one's example at least got the concept....yours..

 

Your example on the other hand is completely forgetting the concept...despite it being posted above you on the same page, missing the key element...that was the entire basis of the reason that I started to post, and it's missing the first two basic criteria that's in the sentence of what my logic....so how about you clarify by rereading my posts

 

Though I think you're just coming up with nonsensical examples because you truly haven't read any of my posts but merely skimmed through. OR you had difficulty understand it...despite the repetitions. Or you assumed a stance that since I stated it was self justified & self centered that I was bias against male virgins and hateful towards those poor male virgins because this is such a disadvantage any method they use is okay after all these virgins are mostly good guys anyway and what I'm doing is ensuring they never get another date.

 

After all you somehow got moral absolutism from my posts and even the one place where I really grasped at straws to get how you could get that from my posts was shot down by another post completely so...

 

You also got people should tell the truth at all times from one concept showing about a specific type of intentional lying/omission so...

 

I'm pretty sure any issues you're having can be clarified by rereading.

Edited September 27, 2011 by udolipixie
addition

[udolipixie]

He became aware24 hours before the wedding.

 

What should he do?

 

 

Yeah you're just bsing and not even with a situation that fits my criteria.

 

You even continue to ignore the rest of the post explaining that to you.

 

No wonder you got those overreaching off the wall impressions of my posts since you seem to skim and nitpick to get the oversimplified general view of something.

 

You can hold whatever opinions you want on this whole virgin male thing..though it seems you've already projected your issues in that post...but these nonsensical examples that don't even follow the concept or criteria wow just wow.

[udolipixie]

You should run for president.

 

Nice job.

 

..........

[eatNrM]

Well it looks like you two are hitting it off well.

[udolipixie]

Well OP sorry for the thread hijack especially considering that most of it was repetition.

[ChessPieceFace]

You keep stating I hate men and that I have a negative view of men. Yet you can not provide me with any comments that state, suggest, or imply that when I ask you to.

 

That was the first time I stated it, and as such, you never asked for said comments as proof. So the very first words in your post are a total lie. No surprise there.

 

As for your posts, they've been almost completely ripped apart by other posters, so I don't have to bother doing much work in that regard. Kudos, other posters.

 

Also my turnarounds on you, Woggle, and Elysian don't count as man hating

 

Actually they do, but what counts more as man-hating are your generalizations and your poor advice given to others, when you assume the men you talk about have the worst possible motives. The proof is in almost all of your posts, I don't even have to quote them. Anyone who cares can feel free to look at almost any of your posts.

 

As for me, I never claimed NOT to be a "woman hater" since I do hate the disgusting behavior of women such as yourself. The difference is who it's affecting. I'm not the one going onto this thread looking at some guy's story about one tiny thing their woman did wrong, and saying "AHA! She's WORTHLESS! You can't TRUST HER!" Yet that is what YOU did in this thread. Condemning the integrity of a guy you don't know, just because he was RIGHTFULLY reluctant to admit his virginity, something which is proven by you and the OP's insane response to his virginity.

 

You can hate men all you want. But when you inflict your man-hating into this advice forum and it has a chance of ruining someone else's relationship, I'm going to call you on it. Deal with it.

[udolipixie]

As for your posts, they've been almost completely ripped apart by other posters, so I don't have to bother doing much work in that regard. Kudos, other posters.

My posts haven't been ripped apart by posters.

 

If anything most of the comments on my posts I had to correct the and ask them where did they get that incorrect information from and that I never stated what they claimed I did.

 

Most posters either didn't agree right off the bat since they thought the self justification is well meaning.

 

Or they didn't even understand the point I was making and thought I was talking about honesty in general....Aj22one by the example posted seemed to be the only one who got the concept.

 

Kudos for what:

Continuing get their own impression based on their emotional reaction? For not actually reading what's there and skimming through?

For not reading what had already been there so I had to keep repeating?

For taking something specific and thinking about it in general terms?

For seeing lying/omission and thinking I was talking about honesty in general?

For seeing lying/omission and thinking I was talking about lies/omissions in general?

For adding their stuff in that wasn't there in the first place and having me to continually ask where did they get this and that I did not state or imply that?

 

Or are the kudos on the ones who actually understood what I was sayin yet disagree and thought that specific type of purposefully lie/omission was okay?

 

I had to essentially repeat everything because most user thought I was talking about honesty in general, then thought I was talking about lying/omissions in general....instead of actually reading what was there and. Sometimes what some of the posters kept getting wrong and in one case one was projecting their own issues.

 

In fact several times I had to ask where did they get this idea or where did I state this...and no one was able to provide me with anything...except that this was the impression they got from their own emotional reaction to reading it.

[udolipixie]

Actually they do,

 

Actually they don't.

 

My turnarounds are clearly poking fun at Woggle and other posters own ridiculous generalizations to show how easily it can be reversed and how neither gender is better or infallible.

 

If you can't understand that no wonder you seem to have an issue understanding my posts and taking things in a broad and general view.

 

There was even another user who commented on my turnarounds enjoying them...so I'm not sure how they got that it was humor but you got that it was out of hate and a belief I support.

[ChessPieceFace]

Blah blah blah, spin and lies.

 

This thread isn't about you, get over yourself.

 

I quote myself to reiterate the relevant point:

 

You can hate men all you want. But when you inflict your man-hating into this advice forum and it has a chance of ruining someone else's relationship, I'm going to call you on it. Deal with it.

[udolipixie]

That was the first time I stated it, and as such, you never asked for said comments as proof. So the very first words in your post are a total lie. No surprise there.

 

You're the one lying.

 

Recall this?

I would agree that a long-term porn habit is a danger for anyone who seriously intends to pursue a relationship. The problem is, for instance in my case -- if it wasn't for porn I'd have not had any sexual imagery at all up until now, 35 years of age! Is THAT healthy, or fair? Absolutely not.

 

Fair? Sorry but no one owes you sex unless you paid a hooker and she cheated you.

Are you aware you can solve this issue with prostitutes or a mail order bride?

 

Men have sexual needs. By denying that you seem to show yourself to be a pretty bad man-hater, or ignorant of male needs, or possibly you're just trolling me out of bitterness that I, the lowly male, dared speak out of line or say anything true about your gender.

 

How was I denying men have sexual needs?

I was telling you that no one owes you sex. In fact I even stated several ways for men to get their sexual needs met.

 

Are you also aware that you're a man-hater?

 

Show me where I have made any comments displaying man hate...my turnarounds are not man hating but poking fun at the ridiculousness of women hating comments by reversing it.

 

Read the entire posts to get how I'm a man hater according to him. It's truly amusing

Edited September 27, 2011 by udolipixie

[praxisdorian]

Well, if you have a distintive set of rules about disclosure, be careful that how you judge this kid. Your judgement may some day come back to bite you. If you like the guy and think that you have a future, don't be so quick to toss him out on his ear because he failed to let you into his deepest secrets over lunch. Let him know that such behavior is unacceptable to you, and that you require 100% authenticity. If he screws up again, THEN toss him.