his lack of a past is a bit of a turnoff

[Jono85]

ok that is still VERY weird though, that an attractive guy with a good head on his shoulders hasn't even kissed a girl until 25?? i'm not saying it's cause for concern b/c it sounds like that's the only hangup you seem to have, but still. that's unreal. maybe he lost a ton of weight and was very insecure for a while? just seems weird not even a kiss?? that's a good decade (if you even want to be conservative about when most ppl have their first kiss) of time gone without kissing girl? i'm just very curious there!

[Queen Zenobia]

What's the "natural" age someone should start dating then? Why does everyone have to be average? What would be the weirdness level if the guy was even older than 25?

 

I would say that most people by the time they’re 21 or so have at least dated casually or had sex or had a LTR. It’s just sort of something that happens. And it isn’t about right or wrong but about how people relate to each other via common life experiences. To put it another way the first time I kissed a guy I was 15. I felt all kinds of jitters and nervousness. I can’t imagine feeling that way at 25 or 30.

 

And, as I wrote earlier in this thread, I was my fiance’s first girlfriend (he was 22) so I don’t think it’s something that totally makes or breaks someone, just an area of concern.

[welikeincrowds]

I'll go ahead and say anyone who is so turned-off by someone lacking dating experience and/or rushing to the conclusion that there's something wrong with them is waving a red flag. Sex and dating is not the end-all-be-all for everyone as soon as puberty hits. This guy's accomplished more than many other twentysomethings at his age, so going on dates and getting laid were not particularly high on his list of priorities until recently. I say good for him. Perhaps if more people were like this before entering relationships not as many of them would fail.

 

I disagree!

 

Partially. The bottom line is that this girl has been having a good experience with this guy. Some arbitrary knowledge of his past should have no effect. We agree there.

 

At the same, I'm sure it's actually shocking to be suddenly told you've taken someone's virginity, especially an adult's. It's probably also a little unnerving, as it's an important detail about who he is that was being hidden. I can see it as deception.

 

Plus, there are simply things that you can only learn from experience, including being in a working relationship. We had a long thread about it not too long ago, which was a bit controversial -- whatever your position, the point is that some people want to know that stuff before they make an emotional commitment, some more than others.

 

OP clearly didn't make it too much of a priority to find out about his past, so she probably doesn't care as much as some posters here do; however, she must have had it in good faith that she wasn't his first, and by not divulging information to the contrary, he let her think that. True, it is not his responsibility to read her mind, however: if you are a virgin at 25, you are especially sensitive to the idea that everyone else has already had sex, and women expect you to have had some experience in the bedroom. Whatever his intentions (he doesn't value it personally, or he is afraid of losing her, or whatever), he purposefully hid this information from her.

 

I think that her questions are reasonable. I think that it would ultimately show poor judgment to leave him, but not poor character. I think the circumstances warrant doubts; after all, that's what happens when someone keeps secrets.

[Imajerk17]

Well, if the guy were so inexperienced because he was a "hopeless loser", the OP would have found out long before 6 months in. They probably never would have gotten anywhere near as far in the first place.

 

I agree with TigressA. And with sanman. If it bothers the OP so much, she should break up with him, and then he will be a catch WITH experience for the next girl.

[Sanman]

I would say that most people by the time they’re 21 or so have at least dated casually or had sex or had a LTR. It’s just sort of something that happens. And it isn’t about right or wrong but about how people relate to each other via common life experiences. To put it another way the first time I kissed a guy I was 15. I felt all kinds of jitters and nervousness. I can’t imagine feeling that way at 25 or 30.

 

And, as I wrote earlier in this thread, I was my fiance’s first girlfriend (he was 22) so I don’t think it’s something that totally makes or breaks someone, just an area of concern.

 

 

See, this is where men and women differ. I know many average guys who lacked experience until their early 20s. I don't know many women who lacked such experience at that age. The reason, I think, is that many girls go for older guys and this doesn't start to even out until later college or early into the working years post-college.

 

 

WLIC,

 

I disagree about it being deceptive. Many people have stated that partners do not need to talk about their sexual past with a partner. That includes virginity. It was none of her business like her past relationships were none of his.

[Sanman]

You should give him a chance but I understand what you are saying.

I had the not-so-great luck of being a first girlfriend for the past 2 guys I've dated. It's kind of hard because you feel like you have to teach them the ropes and after it ends you feel like one big experiment to them.

 

But you can learn from them too of course - and once I was someone's first girlfriend and they were my first boyfriend.

 

I think it's pretty common for people in their young to mid-twenties and there might be some more frustrations in your relationship because of it. It's tough learning what a relationship is and because I've been in 4....now in my 5th - I've learned a lot and can apply it to a healthy relationship now.

 

So I wouldn't bail on him but be patient and see if he's someone worth hanging onto.

 

While I understand that it is a burden, let's be fair. This is the advice you gave to the 19 year old female virgin:

 

Do what feels right and don't be ashamed of your virginity - you're 19!!!!!! to you it's the oldest you've ever been but you have no idea how young that is. and I'm sorry - 70 girls? LOL and 22 years old? PLEASE. He's disgusting, insecure and a total loser.

 

The fact that he was with a girl that wasn't just giving it up to him like the other 70 idiots out there did, no doubt, made him feel inferior and insecure. I'm not budging on this statement one bit. If what you're saying is true and what he said actually happened....he's just a small little boy.

 

Srsly honey - you're 19. Please don't go giving it up to some jergoff just because you want to be rid of it. Do what you want and when you want. You can't respect yourself until you do that.

 

Don't lie to the next guy you are with. YOU ARE YOU! They can accept it or they can't. And if someone wants to walk out of your life because you're a virgin then let them go!

This guy could just have been waiting for the right woman as well rather than throwing it away on the first girl that would sleep with him. Not trying to beat up on you VSMINI, just trying to show you that while it may be difficult there is good reason for guys to be inexperienced as well and while it can be difficult to be the other partner that there are other benefits. I think you give great advice and you are right in that she should give the guy a chance. Edited June 16, 2011 by Sanman

[Imajerk17]

While I understand that it is a burden, let's be fair. This is the advice you gave to the 19 year old female virgin:

 

This guy could just have been waiting for the right woman as well rather than throwing it away on the first girl that would sleep with him. Not trying to beat up on you VSMINI, just trying to show you that while it may be difficult there is good reason for guys to be inexperienced as well and while it can be difficult to be the other partner that there are other benefits. I think you give great advice and you are right in that she should give the guy a chance.

 

Very well put. I salute your diplomacy.

[welikeincrowds]

I disagree about it being deceptive. Many people have stated that partners do not need to talk about their sexual past with a partner. That includes virginity. It was none of her business like her past relationships were none of his.

 

That is patently false -- at least, it is an opinion to which I strongly disagree. If there is ever a person to whom one's sexual past is another person's business, it can only be a health professional, or a current sexual partner! And not just because of STDs.

 

Not to use the dreaded "business interview" analogy, but: would you argue that to a potential employer about your employment history? In fact, it is unethical not to divulge your past -- especially if you have an experience that you know your employer would want to hear before making a decision to hire, like a termination. Sure, there may be a reasonable explanation behind it all -- still, you must divulge that information. Or, you can choose to lie by omission, citing that it was a long time ago, or it wasn't a big deal but it would be difficult to explain, or that it was a personal matter and it's not their business to know it and that you're a good employer -- whatever allows you to sleep at night.

 

Now, dating is not an employee interview, and OP did not make a concerted point to ask. So in that sense, this is not on the same level of deception. Still, I hold that it was slightly dishonest.

 

Firstly, the obvious -- the OP went into this on false pretenses. She did not expect that she was taking his virginity, and may have acted differently had she known. That is the unfortunate fact that this man purposefully avoided by not saying anything. Of course, she is partially responsible for this by not clearly asking beforehand. But by withholding, he is too.

 

Everyone knows that romantic feelings can be very powerful and difficult to deal with. That is why it is important to be forthcoming with factors that one knows might be controversial before the relationship has gone too far. It is unethical to leverage your partner's hormones in order to sneak past a controversial fact about oneself (e.g. I live with my parents, I've committed a felony, I'm a virgin).

 

I keep tempering my opinion about this because it should be. I'm not saying he is a criminal, despite what I may have implied before. However, he knew what he was doing when he waited 6 months to tell her that she was his first. It should not surprise him that there are consequences for that -- and if it does surprise him, it's only because he has no experience with relationships to inform him of that.

[Tailspin]

I don’t want to break up with him. I’m just trying to figure out how normal this type of thing is. I remember my first relationship and it wasn’t very pretty. Sometimes it takes some practice getting these things right. I just don’t want to get too emotionally involved if it’s going to end up like most people’s first relationships.

 

At first he said it was because he just hadn’t found the right person, but then he finally admitted that it was because he was just shy and awkward around women most of his life. I don’t know maybe I should just be happy and not be so insecure and worried. I hate that I’m thinking this about such a good guy.

[Velociraptor]

If this is how women react to it why do guys even admit to having no experience? I know one thing. I'm not going to admit that I'm a virgin and has no experience what so ever with women... and if she asks I lie. Problem solved. It's not like she can prove it. I'm not 25 yet though.

[conehead]

I don’t want to break up with him. I’m just trying to figure out how normal this type of thing is. I remember my first relationship and it wasn’t very pretty. Sometimes it takes some practice getting these things right. I just don’t want to get too emotionally involved if it’s going to end up like most people’s first relationships.

 

At first he said it was because he just hadn’t found the right person, but then he finally admitted that it was because he was just shy and awkward around women most of his life. I don’t know maybe I should just be happy and not be so insecure and worried. I hate that I’m thinking this about such a good guy.

 

If he has been great to you these past 6 months and nothing else has bothered you, then I dont think you need to worry. My sister's friend married a guy where she was his first gf as well and he was 27 when they met. They dated 3 years and has been married 2...they seem like a happy and normal couple. Keep it up!

[gaius]

I don’t want to break up with him. I’m just trying to figure out how normal this type of thing is.

It's normal for a woman to be turned off if other women aren't into her guy, you aren't weird or anything. Don't worry about it.

[Sanman]

That is patently false -- at least, it is an opinion to which I strongly disagree. If there is ever a person to whom one's sexual past is another person's business, it can only be a health professional, or a current sexual partner! And not just because of STDs.

 

Not to use the dreaded "business interview" analogy, but: would you argue that to a potential employer about your employment history? In fact, it is unethical not to divulge your past -- especially if you have an experience that you know your employer would want to hear before making a decision to hire, like a termination. Sure, there may be a reasonable explanation behind it all -- still, you must divulge that information. Or, you can choose to lie by omission, citing that it was a long time ago, or it wasn't a big deal but it would be difficult to explain, or that it was a personal matter and it's not their business to know it and that you're a good employer -- whatever allows you to sleep at night.

 

Now, dating is not an employee interview, and OP did not make a concerted point to ask. So in that sense, this is not on the same level of deception. Still, I hold that it was slightly dishonest.

 

Firstly, the obvious -- the OP went into this on false pretenses. She did not expect that she was taking his virginity, and may have acted differently had she known. That is the unfortunate fact that this man purposefully avoided by not saying anything. Of course, she is partially responsible for this by not clearly asking beforehand. But by withholding, he is too.

 

Everyone knows that romantic feelings can be very powerful and difficult to deal with. That is why it is important to be forthcoming with factors that one knows might be controversial before the relationship has gone too far. It is unethical to leverage your partner's hormones in order to sneak past a controversial fact about oneself (e.g. I live with my parents, I've committed a felony, I'm a virgin).

 

I keep tempering my opinion about this because it should be. I'm not saying he is a criminal, despite what I may have implied before. However, he knew what he was doing when he waited 6 months to tell her that she was his first. It should not surprise him that there are consequences for that -- and if it does surprise him, it's only because he has no experience with relationships to inform him of that.

 

While I am all about honesty and agree with you, I don't think that admitting virginity is anymore deceptive than not admitting other sexual practices. You never know what a controversial fact is to another person. I have had several debates here where men and women reserve the right to not talk about promiscuous pasts for the same reason. Withholding virginity has little to do wit STDs as they are clean unless they happen to have an immaculate transmission. Frankly, I would be more concerned if my partner was having unprotected sex , anal sex, sex with a large number of partners, or anything that might increase the chance of an STD. Either way, both can say that they are STD free without divulging pasts.

[welikeincrowds]

I don’t want to break up with him. I’m just trying to figure out how normal this type of thing is. I remember my first relationship and it wasn’t very pretty. Sometimes it takes some practice getting these things right. I just don’t want to get too emotionally involved if it’s going to end up like most people’s first relationships.

 

At first he said it was because he just hadn’t found the right person, but then he finally admitted that it was because he was just shy and awkward around women most of his life. I don’t know maybe I should just be happy and not be so insecure and worried. I hate that I’m thinking this about such a good guy.

 

I wouldn't worry. I would say most of the reason behind people's first relationships has to do simply with age. He won't know some things but he's still not a 17 year old. He's been good so far, so I would put this concern about expectations to bed, and be concerned instead for bad behavior (he doesn't listen to you, he flirts with other women in front of you, etc.).

 

Though if it's eating you up, I would consider telling him how you feel about being told that now. Not in an accusatory way, just in an honest and forthcoming way -- this is how I am feeling right now. Honesty about negative feelings builds trust and brings people together.

[sumdude]

I don’t want to break up with him. I’m just trying to figure out how normal this type of thing is. I remember my first relationship and it wasn’t very pretty. Sometimes it takes some practice getting these things right. I just don’t want to get too emotionally involved if it’s going to end up like most people’s first relationships.

 

At first he said it was because he just hadn’t found the right person, but then he finally admitted that it was because he was just shy and awkward around women most of his life. I don’t know maybe I should just be happy and not be so insecure and worried. I hate that I’m thinking this about such a good guy.

 

At 43 I've certainly decided that there is no such thing as 'normal'. Everyone has a different life and experience. In my case though I had a couple little flings and ONS I wasn't in a full blown relationship until I was around 30. She had been in more than one live in LTR by then and many other little ones. IOW a lot more experienced than me.. allegedly. I ended up marrying her after 5 years. Two years later she ended up cheating and leaving me by surprise.

 

The lesson? Just because she had more relationship 'experience' didn't mean she had good relationship skills! In fact, looking back she was difficult and learned bad relationship skills from her parents! I would look at his relationships with others such as friends and family. I would look at the relationship between his parents. That will tell you way more about him than whether or not you're his first romantic relationship.

 

I can also understand by reading some of the responses in this thread why he may have kept this info to himself. Strange world sometimes...

[welikeincrowds]

Withholding virginity has little to do wit STDs as they are clean unless they happen to have an immaculate transmission. Frankly, I would be more concerned if my partner was having unprotected sex , anal sex, sex with a large number of partners, or anything that might increase the chance of an STD. Either way, both can say that they are STD free without divulging pasts.

 

Well, that's why I said it didn't have to do with STDs. Specifically because all that matters here is whether or not you're clean. Agreed

 

While I am all about honesty and agree with you, I don't think that admitting virginity is anymore deceptive than not admitting other sexual practices. You never know what a controversial fact is to another person. I have had several debates here where men and women reserve the right to not talk about promiscuous pasts for the same reason.

I think it is different, because the other person gets involved. The other person didn't have to be there when you wore latex and had sex with an animal or whatever, and doesn't have to be there now. But the other person does have to "take" your virginity. Although your virginity may also reflect on who you were in the past, more importantly, it ultimately becomes an issue specific to the present relationship.

 

So, it's happening whether the partner knows about it or not. Therefore, it's a direct deception and lie by omission. The only reason not to divulge, then, is because you fear the consequences -- which is why anyone lies, no? If so, so be it -- but there are consequences to that, too, and this thread is evidence.

[in_absentia]

Maybe he's picky and you're the only girl amazing enough for him to want something serious with.

[Sanman]

 

I think it is different, because the other person gets involved. The other person didn't have to be there when you wore latex and had sex with an animal or whatever, and doesn't have to be there now. But the other person does have to "take" your virginity. Although your virginity may also reflect on who you were in the past, more importantly, it ultimately becomes an issue specific to the present relationship.

 

So, it's happening whether the partner knows about it or not. Therefore, it's a direct deception and lie by omission. The only reason not to divulge, then, is because you fear the consequences -- which is why anyone lies, no? If so, so be it -- but there are consequences to that, too, and this thread is evidence.

 

See that is where we will have to agree to disagree. I don't really think virginity is something you 'take' like a prize at a concession stand. No one has ever been arrested for theft of virginity. Nor will the taking of virginity cause a vortex in the time-space continuum to appear in the bedroom. The person who is not a virgin is doing the same thing they do every other time. I view it as a simple sexual history issue. Whether that number is 0 or 2000, whether you are their first or they just had a threesome with a donkey and a rodeo clown, it is an issue of whether you want to discuss sexual history or not.

[Eeyore79]

I remember my first relationship and it wasn’t very pretty. Sometimes it takes some practice getting these things right. I just don’t want to get too emotionally involved if it’s going to end up like most people’s first relationships.

Perhaps this is the real issue? You're aware that most first relationships end, so you feel insecure because you think that implies that this relationship will end, and you don't want to get too attached and end up heart broken.

 

Look at it this way: Most first relationships end because the people involved are pretty young and immature. This guy is neither young nor immature; many people get into lasting relationships in their mid twenties. There's no reason why this relationship shouldn't last if you're right for each other.

[Wolf18]

It really is unfair to judge guys by the same standards you would judge a woman.

 

For women you really need to go out of your way to be a virgin by your 20's, but for men it's the other way around. I'm sure there are way more older male virgins in America than vice versa, probably at a 2 to 1 ratio.

[irc333]

To be honest I'd be wary about starting a relationship with a guy who's never dated before.

 

If every woman thought like you, then this guy would never get anywhere....it's like trying to get your first job/credit without having any experience or credit.

 

People who think like you just make the issue worse actually...you perpetuate it.

 

I'll go ahead and say anyone who is so turned-off by someone lacking dating experience and/or rushing to the conclusion that there's something wrong with them is waving a red flag.

 

Anyone who thinks this way has actually tagged themselves with their OWN red flag. So if you're turned off by it, I hand you your red-flag.

[TimothyParadox]

My boyfriend and I have been dating for 6 months. Everything has been great, at first he was somewhat shy and reserved but then he opened up and became more outgoing. Yesterday he revealed to me that I was his first girlfriend, first girl he ever kissed, first girl he did anything with. I’m really confused now. I mean what kind of guy doesn’t date at all until they’re 25? I mean he’s good looking, in shape, smart, funny, has his own place…he is a really good guy. Still though his inexperience is really giving me second thoughts. Am I wrong for feeling really turned off by this or thinking it’s a huge red flag?

 

Wow... just wow. You don't deserve this guy...

Your prejudice is f*cking disgusting.

[TimothyParadox]

It's how western society is these days. The slightly less fortunate get punished mercilessly.

 

Did it ever occur to your elitist mind that some people have been bullied into submission for their entire lives and that perhaps this has scarred them? Of course not. You don't understand so you punish him DESPITE BEING A GREAT PERSON.

[irc333]

Wow... just wow. You don't deserve this guy...

Your prejudice is f*cking disgusting.

 

 

Yeah, what doesn't even make any sense is that you're KEEPING this guy inexperienced or perhaps keeping him a virgin by NOT letting him get the experience.

 

Basically, if every woman he runs into from 25 and older.....they might refuse him each time....I mean, there might be a chance that he'll find someone that will FINALLY let him have the experience, hopefully that will pan out for him.

[Queen Zenobia]

It doesn't "just happen" for everyone. I wish it would have just happened for me but it didn't. What "common life expereinces"? If two people haven't started dating at around the same age they don't have common life experiences? Why is that important at all?

 

You can't imagine expereincing your first kiss at 25 or 30. How do you think the guy feels knowing that if she finds out it may be all over no matter how great a guy he is. What's an area of concern mean anyway? Is it one tiny step from absolute dealbreaker?

 

The area of concern is that he'd be dating someone out of desperation not out of general interest. If you have options, you'd also want someone who has options.

 

Now, as for my own personal opinions about experience vs inexperience. I highly doubt that if I met a guy, was interested and then learned he was inexperienced that I would hold that against him (in fact I know I wouldn't because I'm marrying an inexperienced guy). However, in the abstract, I think a healthy amount of experience is preferable (even if not required). If I sounded needlessly harsh it was because of the amount of people on here vilifying the OP for having felt taken aback, which I felt was uncalled for.