She's with him in a hotel in Europe right now!

[Trimmer]

Thanks for the clarifications... It makes more sense now (although not to you, I'm sure...)

 

...she sent me a brief "I'm here email" then forwarded her hotel reservation for the first three days to the [email protected] email from her own account...

And you are confident, through your investigations, that this Email is a concrete match to this "guy", and you have learned about him from Facebook and other sources? High confidence? High enough to bet your marriage on? (I'm not taking issue, just making sure you have high confidence in the way you've connected the dots here...)

 

...we had a fight a couple of days before the trip (partly about her booking without consulting me and partly because I asked her if she planned to cheat) I kind of suspected it

Hmmm, so you drove her to it, eh? (A bit of gallows humor - this is sometimes a bizarre rationalization used by WS.)

 

Ah, well then, since it's already "out there", she might be taking care not to leave too many tracks. Don't expect her phone to have any saved text messages on it when she gets back. People who are watching their backs learn to clear those pretty quickly with just a few keystrokes.

 

On the other hand, the cellular bill might tell a tale. If this has been building for a while, there might be prior activity. I know you said you can't get daily call logs, but do you have the most recent bill that would show call/text activity? With my carrier, I can dial it up on the web. After my wife announced that she was .... departing our marriage ... I found patterns of calls to "his" number - some LONG (up to an hour), but then there were notable days when they just stopped cold. I ultimately put together that these were the periods they were together. The rest of the time, they were calling each other every few hours, it seemed.

 

Maybe the sister wants to reduce the shame she feels getting divorced but bringing my family along for the ride. Are women that vicious?

What's the nature of the sister's marriage breakup? Do you know much about it?

 

I will say that the sister may well know about it, and who knows whether she is encouraging or supporting it, but keep the focus where it belongs: on your wife. If this is really happening, she's not being dragged into it by her sister or Moroccan-guy - she's make these decisions all on her own, and bears the responsibility on her own.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Trimmer

[thesignsareallthere]

Appreciate the bluntness and suggestions. Yes, I'm 100% certain who it was that she forwarded her information to - I looked the guy up on skype and the photo and name are there for all to see - fortunately a very unusual name. The landline listed in the white pages, however seems out of commission. It all feels a bit like a dream but actually it isn't. I did like the idea of letting her know that I know and to fly home if she wants to have any hope of staying together. I'm intimately familiar with the sister's breakup - rags to riches and on the way back to rags because the dot com era is well and truly over and both sister and husband built and sold companies. Plus no sex in 4 years for them. Fortunately I've kept some semblance of normality in that department. Waiting it out 20 days without saying anything will kill me unless I can put my energy to good use I guess - planning for any and all scenarios that follow. I shared my concerns with my folks, my mom said entirely likely, dad said wife isn't capable of such a thing and I'm off my rocker. I've generally found my dad to be overly naiive.

[thesignsareallthere]

That's the real worry here - I've got a well adjusted daughter but a son who's been in therapy for more than a year for his inability to control his temper. I think in large part it's our fear of not damaging our kids that has held us together during the tough times and there have been a few to be sure.

 

A part of me says that I should stop the kids from exchanging emails and having the odd call with their mom to get even, but they would end up suffering more than my wife. Hey, a sign that I was headed for trouble was that my wife maintains a facebook site for herself that doesn't specify her marital status and has no references to me whatsoever. Maybe we can bounce back stronger, seen it happen, maybe 1 in 10 times. Mostly just leads to acrimonious divorce.

 

I'll keep the sister out of it, guess I can't blame her for covering up for her sister. Actually, yes I can.

[PegNosePete]

You're right not to use the kids as a weapon dude.

 

The situation is irrelevant dude. The fact is that your wife is cheating and you know this. Having "evidence" or "proof" is not necessary. I think you need to put your big boy pants on. Call her up and tell her you know what's going on and she will have divorce papers waiting for her when she gets back. Then see a lawyer and make it so. Even if she does want to work things out, you need to knock some sense into her and show her that you're not a doormat. Nobody respects a doormat and currently she is playing you for a complete fool.

[thesignsareallthere]

Yes, I'm being played like a complete fool. But what if I'm wrong, what if my dad is right and she just wanted space and time to explore to Louvre and catechombs - is there anyone who's read the facts above who thinks there's a chance that I'm paranoid and over-reacting. I'm smart enough to know that making life changing decisions when in a state of emotional exhaustion and sleep deprevation is wrong.

 

So far I've avoided contact with my soon to be ex brother in law but he may have more insight that I into what's going through my wife's head - they went out a few times in the past few months and he dumped his troubles on her and they seemed to connect on shared frustrations. He might just be able to confirm my suspicions if he's been talking to the sister in paris. Should I take the chance that it will get back to her?

[Andy_K]

Trouble is you have no real solid proof. You know she forwarded the reservation to some guy, but that's all you really have that's concrete. Phone records would help but unless she's careless enough to leave incriminating evidence on her phone - which is unlikely - you've not got a leg to stand on, whether she's guilty or not.

 

I think you need to gather more evidence without arousing her suspicions further. How you'll do this I've no idea.

[mysteriousbox]

Why not just go right to the heart of it and ask your wife who is xxx and why did she forward her hotel reservations to some random yahoo account and see what her reaction is? Even if she hasn't had an affair, leaving the family for close to a month for her own personal benefit and against the wishes of the other spouse seems to be grounds for divorce to start with anyways.

[PegNosePete]

is there anyone who's read the facts above who thinks there's a chance that I'm paranoid and over-reacting

Certainly not me, and I very much doubt anyone else either.

This would definitely be good enough for me to confront.

If there is some other explanation then she can give it to you but she can't blame you for drawing the logical conclusion.

[Bryanp]

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. You stated in the past that your wife has previously engaged in affairs. These are only the affairs that you know of. My guess is that there was little consequences to her actions.

 

What is happening now in Europe seems pretty obvious and indeed that she is playing you for a fool. My guess the reason she is doing this is because in the worst cast scenario and she gets caught, she knows there will be no consequences to her actions and you will accept her back. It is a no lose situation for her. Her attitude on the phone indicates that she does not care how you feel and has no respect for whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

[thesignsareallthere]

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. You stated in the past that your wife has previously engaged in affairs. These are only the affairs that you know of. My guess is that there was little consequences to her actions.

 

What is happening now in Europe seems pretty obvious and indeed that she is playing you for a fool. My guess the reason she is doing this is because in the worst cast scenario and she gets caught, she knows there will be no consequences to her actions and you will accept her back. It is a no lose situation for her. Her attitude on the phone indicates that she does not care how you feel and has no respect for whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

 

Thanks these past few comments have help immeasurably. Got voicemail and texts from my wife and her sister since the last call and I've decided to take matters into my own hands and go silent and not respond for several days. This will make it a lot harder for her to get on the ship on the 27th and it puts the ball back in my court. Maybe a drip feed email from the kids so as to not turn them into pawns. Feels better already. Have also booked apt with family doctor for something to help me sleep and referral to counsellor. My folks are flying across the country today to help out for a couple of weeks - that's going to help too and they're on board with not picking up the phone or if they do, being polite but too busy to help.

[Chi townD]

Yes, I'm being played like a complete fool. But what if I'm wrong, what if my dad is right and she just wanted space and time to explore to Louvre and catechombs - is there anyone who's read the facts above who thinks there's a chance that I'm paranoid and over-reacting. I'm smart enough to know that making life changing decisions when in a state of emotional exhaustion and sleep deprevation is wrong.

 

So far I've avoided contact with my soon to be ex brother in law but he may have more insight that I into what's going through my wife's head - they went out a few times in the past few months and he dumped his troubles on her and they seemed to connect on shared frustrations. He might just be able to confirm my suspicions if he's been talking to the sister in paris. Should I take the chance that it will get back to her?

 

Ummm...dude. Your wife e-mailed her hotel reservations to another man. Why? What For? That fact alone is suspect. If you're doing something with someone that you wouldn't do in front of your SO, that is the definition of an affair or at least innappropriate behavior. What if the roles were reversed. What if she found that you've e-mailed your hotel reservations to another woman. Do you think that she would automatically assume that you were just letting a pen pal know your whereabouts and there's nothing going on? HELL NO!!

 

Dude, see a lawyer. Know what your options are and protect yourself and your kids. It doesn't hurt just to talk to one. See about drawing up at least Seperation papers. Doesn't mean you HAVE to seperate, but it does show her you aren't playing. She has a history of cheating and she really isn't worried right now. Why? Because you didn't do anything the last time. You were a doormat. If she was truely sorry for what she did in the past, doing something like this would have never entered her mind. She needs to know that there are consequences to her actions.

[Chi townD]

By the way, just curious. What did the voicemail and the texts say? That you're being paranoid and you have nothing to worry about and that everything is okay?

 

Oh, you also wrote that you weren't getting along and even fought a few days before she left is also a tell-tale sign. She knew she was going early to meet up with this guy and it's easier to cheat on you when she's mad at you. She's trying to justify that what she doing is okay, because you guys weren't getting along anyway. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if she's was the one that blew up in the arguement first, or started the fights.

[thesignsareallthere]

Fathers day only communication was "Happy Fathers day love mom xoxo" no call no card nothing else

 

My reply yesterday;

 

"just noticed this thanks - I cried thinking you were going to ignore me on fathers day, kids saw it what's your GSM phone number"

 

From Wife,

 

"Awe. Sim card not working. would have called you xoxo"

 

From me right after:

 

"Are you with (your sister)"

 

no reply

 

I text to sister

 

"Have you met up with (my wife) yet?" and do you have her GSM phone number?

 

reply

"We can call you on your cell via skype"

 

2 hours later I call and wife had just arrived, never texted back where she was. I asked what's wrong with phone and she said GSM not working, phone rang in background, hmmm

 

Text message from wife today was:

 

"How are u 2day? I called but u did not pick up. At Science centre 2 day. Skype if u need 2 talk. After 11 am your time is good." (which is 8:00 pm in Paris...)

 

10 minutes later from sister...

 

"Hey xxxxxx, what's your ur Skype address"

[Chi townD]

And the phone ringing in the background is when you were calling it, right? Hmmm indeed.....

 

Well, choice is yours...If you want her to sweat it. Go for it. However, at this point I wouldn't be telling her that you've been crying or anything "wishy washy" like that. You're mad! You're ANGRY!!!!! If she inquires...I would only respond that you know; nothing more nothing less. And then go silent. Sounds like she already had her encounter and it sounds like she might have another planned after she gets back from the cruise if she added three more days at the end. Who knows, I could be wrong, but that what's going through my mind on your situation.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Chi townD

[jnj express]

Your mge. hit a major dump when your wife selfishly took funds for herself to go off on a 25 day trip to europe---that by itself is enuff

 

You wanna get a rise out of her---cut off all her credit cards right now---change bank acct. to your name only---including checking

 

Leave her in europe only with the cash she has on hand---I am willing to bet its not enuff---and the minute she wants to use credit or check---she will be calling

[Bryanp]

Chitown's advise is spot on. When she calls tell you know. No more and no less and then hang up. It is time for her to sweat a bit. Your wife is a real piece of work. You do not deserve this nor should you settle for this. Chitown's advise just to see a lawyer to know your options is sound advise. It is always better to have too much information than not enough. I wish you luck.

[GorillaTheater]

"just noticed this thanks - I cried thinking you were going to ignore me on fathers day"

 

Don't admit such a thing to your wife again, because no, you're not overreacting to your wife's actions, and now's the time to be a cold stone wall as far as she's concerned.

 

Take the advice of the others: see a lawyer ASAP. Consider filing for divorce while she's gone and having her served on her return, maybe at the airport. And have her stuff piled up in the driveway waiting for her when she gets out of the cab, becuase YOU sure aren't picking her up.

 

You need to thoroughly, inescapably get her attention. What I'm advocating isn't necesarily the "nuclear option"; divorce proceedings can be pulled at any time, depending on what the truth is, what your wife is willing to do to fix things, and how you feel about the situation.

 

You have nearly three weeks to take action; so take action and make plans. "Hope" is not a plan.

[samspade]

OP - it doesn't matter if she's having an affair or not. She's ALREADY engaging in terrible behavior.

 

Riddle me this. If a woman had high interest in her husband and didn't want to risk a divorce, would she do any of the things you've described? Of course not.

 

Think about it...if she cared about you at all, she would not put you in a position where you might be the least bit suspicious.

 

Sorry you're in this position...especially with kids. I'd kick her to the curb though.

[thesignsareallthere]

It would certainly come as a shock to her if I the cards & freeze the Line of Credit - which is what she's borrowed to fund this adventure. I could just report the cards stolen. Trouble is sister still has a big pile of cash to burn through. Symbolically cutting off money and dropping her stuff off at her parent's house ten minutes away would certainly send a message that the game is up. (Immigrant parents who don't speak English well and are conservative in mindset).

 

The support the wife arranged before leaving was a day by day schedule of drop off's, pick ups and play dates, perhaps to ease the burden of knowing what she was about to do and that I work full time and then some in a demanding, high pressure job. I told the wife that I didn't feel like driving her to the airport but she guilted me into it. I agree, it would also send the "game over" signal for me to not pick her up at the airport. The lady has been known to take back flowers that I bring her because they're too expensive or too cheap or not what she likes in particular. Well gotta go attend the kids' year end talent show. Just writing this is making me realize how selfish it was for her to take off like that - point being even without the affair things were rocky to be sure.

[Chi townD]

Yeah, things were rocky for sure. But who was the instigator? Look, I'm still going on my gut feeling that you should just let her know that you know. Why torture yourself? Why let her have a wonderful time, guilt free while you develop and ulcer and have to have a medicated sleep? Why let her get a free pass now, THEN hit her with it AFTER she gets back?

 

You've read through everyones posts. My question is, what is your game plan now?

[GorillaTheater]

Yeah, things were rocky for sure. But who was the instigator? Look, I'm still going on my gut feeling that you should just let her know that you know. Why torture yourself? Why let her have a wonderful time, guilt free while you develop and ulcer and have to have a medicated sleep? Why let her get a free pass now, THEN hit her with it AFTER she gets back?

 

Because in my experience confronting her over the phone is just going to leave Signals feeling like sh*t. "You're crazy, nothing's going on, why don't you trust me?, you're just being paranoid, I think you need help".

 

You've read through everyones posts. My question is, what is your game plan now?

 

This. Signals, you know your situation and we don't, but you need to come up with a plan. Let us know what it is and we'll work from there.

[Chi townD]

Because in my experience confronting her over the phone is just going to leave Signals feeling like sh*t. "You're crazy, nothing's going on, why don't you trust me?, you're just being paranoid, I think you need help".

 

 

 

This. Signals, you know your situation and we don't, but you need to come up with a plan. Let us know what it is and we'll work from there.

 

 

What? And you don't think he feels like sh*t now? It's not like she went away for the weekend. I couldn't even imagine holding on to that information for almost a month.

 

But, Gorilla is right. People are here to support you in whatever you decide. I just don't like when people get screwed over as we speak.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Chi townD

[GorillaTheater]

What? And you don't think he feels like sh*t now? It's not like she went away for the weekend. I couldn't even imagine holding on to that information for almost a month.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that he feels like sh*t; my point is that it's going to make him feel even worse, besdies being unproductive as hell, if and when she starts the blame-shifting and gas-lighting game. I'll put my money on her taking just this tack, particularly since she's so far away and has her morally-bereft sister there at her back.

 

In my opinion, and of course this is just the opinion of a bunch of pixels on the internet, Signals needs to play his cards very close to his vest, for his own protection.

[whammy]

I have a few opinions on this.

1.) contact with another man behind husbands back is enough to be considered cheating. This guy could be A gigolo for all you know.

2.) a women out of love will be as cold as if she never met you. That is why you are getting this "vicious" vibe from her.

3.) tell her face to face (skype) like man. The stuff your doing is petty. You seemed concerned with guilting her into giving you attention, making her suffer, and getting even. Dont do that. Be an alpha male. An alpha male doesnt act like a conniving weasel, He get is straight forward and tells what he knows and the wife has no other choice but to get in line or she is out on her ass. Why are you even thinking about this. I fear this kind of behavior is what drove her from being loyal to you in the first. Think about things from her point of view. She has no loyalty and attraction to her husband, shes with another man, and all her husband is doing is calling and whining about crying, begging, and then giving a childish silent treatment. It probably disgusts her and just backs up her choice of cheating. I know your hurt and what she is doing is wrong but you need to man up. What I would do is skype her tell her what you know. No pettiness, no guilt. I would say

"I know whats happening, I dont care if it is not what it looks like or whatever" This is what I know, this is what I think and my mind will not change. I hope you have alot of fun on your trip because when you get back you will not be living in this house. You will be staying somewhere else until you are rerady to make the steps to show me that you are ready to be my wife. And the kind of wife that loves, respects, and values her husband above all else" Right now she doesnt value you.... you need to stand firm and find who you are as a man again. because I think you lost it and look where it got you.

Edited June 21, 2011 by whammy

[Chi townD]

There's no doubt in my mind that he feels like sh*t; my point is that it's going to make him feel even worse, besdies being unproductive as hell, if and when she starts the blame-shifting and gas-lighting game. I'll put my money on her taking just this tack, particularly since she's so far away and has her morally-bereft sister there at her back.

 

In my opinion, and of course this is just the opinion of a bunch of pixels on the internet, Signals needs to play his cards very close to his vest, for his own protection.

 

 

Yeah, but that's the cards the cheater always plays with the gas-lighting and the blame-shifting. So, that's GONNA happen whether she was in the states or over-seas. I guess the only thing that notifying her that he knows only gives her a lot of time to concoct a believable story or explaination. And your right he needs to plays his cards close and get that protection. I STILL strongly believe that he needs to see a lawyer.

 

But, maybe it's just me being vindictive, but I would let her know that I know something isn't right. She wouldn't get a free pass from me to enjoy herself in Paris with her lover while I take care of things at home. I guess I would try to break that fantasy world she's in right now and snap her back into reality. And that reality is that she just very well may have destroyed her marriage and family by her selfishness.