GorillaTheater Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Yeah, but that's the cards the cheater always plays with the gas-lighting and the blame-shifting. So, that's GONNA happen whether she was in the states or over-seas. I guess the only thing that notifying her that he knows only gives her a lot of time to concoct a believable story or explaination. And your right he needs to plays his cards close and get that protection. I STILL strongly believe that he needs to see a lawyer. But, maybe it's just me being vindictive, but I would let her know that I know something isn't right. She wouldn't get a free pass from me to enjoy herself in Paris with her lover while I take care of things at home. I guess I would try to break that fantasy world she's in right now and snap her back into reality. And that reality is that she just very well may have destroyed her marriage and family by her selfishness. I think our positions are pretty close, except that I'd let my attorney do the talking. Link to post Share on other sites
jnj express Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 You should definitely shut her down financially reasons----1st her sister is gonna get tired of financing your wife's complete trip, and is gonna wanna know what is going on--- your wife is still gonna have some explaining to do 2nd-----your wife is gonna find out what life will be like w/out her nice cozy little situation at home, with a H. to take care of her---she will real quick find out what its like to face things alone 3rd---she will know you know something is up---otherwise why would this be happening, so she will actually get to face some consequences for her actions 4th ---you will have sent a strong message, those who play with fire DO get burned Link to post Share on other sites
Author thesignsareallthere Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 1) Day 5 a) Shut off all communications and watch her sweat - 5 calls + 3 texts ignored - oh just got another unlisted anonymous call b) Get meds and sleep for first time in 5 days - hope I'm offline for 8 hours c) Start eating again - (June 17 - 201lbs, June 21 - 191 lbs) 2) Day 6 a) Locate & have initial meeting with Lawyer/Mediator b) Start drafting separation papers 3)Day 7 a) List out her possessions & buy bunch of storage boxes b) Plan how to mechanically move her out - timing with Kids away crucial c) Build my evaluation matrix (excel with options in columns, rows with categories on side & weightings, then answer honestly with score 1-10 and highest total tells me the right way to go, do again next day, then commit and execute 4) Day 8 a) regale in shock when she walks through the door, tail between her legs (instead of the man from Casa Blanca). Not holding my breath. 5) Days 9 & 10 - Do something fun with the kids and their grandparents. More planning to come -this is my start... Link to post Share on other sites
Bryanp Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Great Job!!! Best of luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Author thesignsareallthere Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Good arguments on both sides on whether to confront - I'll defer decision on this for a day or two 'til I'm good and rested - I agree with the comment that nearly 3 weeks will allow a lot of story concocting. 99% certain even if it's true it'll be denial city unless I can come up with the smoking gun (Like say sending the OG an email from a new account that doesn't mention the wife by name but refers to where she comes from something like "Colorado.babe34"). If nothing happened he'd reply back right away - sorry wrong person "but like to meet you..". If something did happen, he'd either respond immediately because the guy's still in afterglow (makes me sick to write about it) or he'd text her, then either never respond or send a craftily worded denial. Maybe the turd's cell number will be in his footer - a great x-reference point when the next cell bill arrives. I could use a web tool to confirm whether he's live online in Yahoo messaging without him knowing - increasing likelihood of catching him off guard at time of my choosing. (All's fair in love and war?) Link to post Share on other sites
Author thesignsareallthere Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Just wondering if there are any women reading this with opinions - I'd welcome your thoughts since by your very nature you think different than we men. What's going through my wife's mind right now? What would you do if you were in her shoes and had started an affair? Link to post Share on other sites
mysteriousbox Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Although I've never been in a situation like what your going through before, honestly why bother. It's unheard of to send your hotel reservations to an "unknown/random" e-mail (if I'm traveling to meet friends or business, I tell them what hotel I'm staying at but not what room). Given her history and all the red flags, what do you hope to accomplish by finding out more details. It sounds like in your mind you've made up your mind so why continue to torment yourself searching for more, you know what you will find. Anyways best of luck and take care of yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
leighaxox Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Just wondering if there are any women reading this with opinions - I'd welcome your thoughts since by your very nature you think different than we men. What's going through my wife's mind right now? What would you do if you were in her shoes and had started an affair? I read this all and my heart breaks for you. I hope you can stay strong and get through this. It seems to me you've thought this all through and have made very calculated decisions. Stay strong and stick to your grounds. I think you have every right to be suspicious, and like you said, you'll be thinking much more clearly after you've gotten some rest. Take care and I wish you all the best. Link to post Share on other sites
Afishwithabike Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm a woman. I've been following your story until now and I wasn't going to post until you asked for a female perspective. I've gone on business trips by myself numerous times, but I've never forwarded my itinerary to some random man. One's travel itinerary has so much detailed information that one wouldn't want any old person to see it especially in this day and age. If I'm going to meet up with a college friend or whatever, I would tell them the hotel I'm at and what dates I'm in the city. Say I come across someone during the trip and he/she wants to meet for lunch or dinner, I would during my daily call with my husband tell him that I'm meeting so and so that day or the next. It wouldn't be a secret. I don't know what I would do in an affair to be honest. The thought of having an affair is so far from my mind. I think the plan you posted above with what you would do from Day 5 on is good. Stick to that. Link to post Share on other sites
Afishwithabike Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Fathers day only communication was "Happy Fathers day love mom xoxo" no call no card nothing else My reply yesterday; "just noticed this thanks - I cried thinking you were going to ignore me on fathers day, kids saw it what's your GSM phone number" If you want the female perspective on this too, I have to say you should stop saying you're crying. It makes you look weak. Link to post Share on other sites
leighaxox Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 If you want the female perspective on this too, I have to say you should stop saying you're crying. It makes you look weak. I agree with this. You're giving her all the power/control when you cry Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) If you want the female perspective on this too, I have to say you should stop saying you're crying. It makes you look weak. Mine's obviously not a female perspective, but I completely agree. At this point, it's likely that anything you do in an attempt to appeal to her that comes off as soft, gentle, loving, vulnerable, etc. is just going to repel her more. This is probably already the picture she has built up of you, and she's turned it into a big pile of negatives, and this is partly how she's justifying her behavior. So (a) being soft is not going to change her behavior, and (b) you're just feeding fuel into her twisted fantasy-world rationalization. For both reasons, don't do it. Don't tell her how much you miss her, anything like that. She is your kids' mom now. Treat that like a business or a logistical issue to be handled, and no more than that. You're immeasurably sad, I know, but you need to find a little bit of "pissed-off" inside to balance it and sharpen yourself up a bit, so you can be cool and businesslike on the outside. The sadness is OK, and crying is OK (just not to her...) If you need to cry, doing it in the shower makes things a little easier, and the warm water will help your eyes not look so puffy afterward. I pass this along from my own personal experience. No crying to her, and don't tell her if you have been. You are Charlie Cucumber - as cool as if you just came out of the refrigerator. Continue doing a good job of keeping the kids out of the middle. Facilitate their contact with her if you can. I say this not for her sake, or for the purpose of "making your case" to her - don't treat it that way - but for their sake, to provide them the contact they need with their mother, and keep some continuity going for them. But in this part of the process, stop treating her as the character "wife" and deal with her as the character "kids' mother." Some will counsel that "the kids will eventually need to learn the truth about their mother anyway..." and I agree that their world is about to get rocked, and there is certainly significant pain coming up, but I think sometimes betrayed spouses twist that into an excuse to put the kids in the middle, and use them as a weapon - promoting the argument that it serves them well to be beat over the head with the raw, nasty "truth." While I understand the emotion behind that, and acknowledge the "learn the truth" argument, personally, that's not the direction I went. I assumed that my kids would be best served if they did not feel abandoned by their mom. Thus they needed to feel that no matter what happened while our world was tumbling, she was still there for them (and in my case, she was), was still their mother, and as such, in order to support my kids as best I could, I needed to fully acknowledge and support her role as mother as well. This can create some serious dissonance, but I handled it as I mentioned above (and as I preach here on LS occasionally in similar situations to this): I broke up my relationship with her into the different characters I needed to deal with. "Friend" went permanent hiatus, "wife" I was actually pretty pissed off at, but hostility wouldn't help, so I was just cold, and kept to the bare necessities, her role as "mother" I continued to support, mostly by facilitating the kids' interactions with her, but I drew a boundary excluding "wife" issues. And then I also considered her a "business partner" in our real estate and other property, and negotiated firmly, but in good faith, so that we both got the best deal, for example, when we sold our house. If my kids need a mom, it isn't going to help them have a normal-as-possible life if she is destitute... Like I say, a lot of this is hard to swallow, especially when you want to just take an emotional swing at her. But consider the long-term effect on the kids, and what you would hope their "least-bad" process to be, and find your way through. Unfortunately here, just when you are on the ropes already, you have to "take another one for the team", but it's almost exactly 7 years down the road for me, and I don't regret for a minute that I kept my cool, kept the kids out of it, and continued acting like a sensible father, even as my life as a husband was burning to the ground. Sorry - kinda got off on a sermon there, but I just thought some perspective about how to keep those "characters" separate so you can deal with them might help you... It saved me, and I'm sure was a great benefit to my kids in the short- and long-run, compared with alternative, nuclear scenarios that might have involved them... Edited June 22, 2011 by Trimmer Link to post Share on other sites
bikinibeach Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 i recently had my first experience in being with a man who didn't cry. it completely unnerved me.... and i knew i was in REAL trouble. when they're crying, as a woman, it can kind of give you a nurturing level foothold to take back control of the situation. because of this, the one time he DID cry, it really affected me. whereas with my exes i would just roll my eyes, get angrier, tell them to quit pouting etc (believe me when i say they deserved it) also, what whammy said. do that. Link to post Share on other sites
bikinibeach Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 ps: the ONLY time i have EVER given a man my room number was when he was to meet me in said hotel room. also, i think she is lying about the "friend with a breakup" Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) ps: the ONLY time i have EVER given a man my room number was when he was to meet me in said hotel room. also, i think she is lying about the "friend with a breakup" It was put a bit awkwardly in the original post, but he later clarified that the "friend" is his wife's sister, and he does know for certain that her marriage is breaking up. Also, just so we don't go off on minsinformation - I don't think there has been anything said about room numbers. She forwarded her itinerary, which does have dates of stay, etc. but usually don't have room numbers if I remember. Not that this minimizes the issue at all, I just wanted to avoid going off an a wild goose chase with the "room number" issue... Edited June 22, 2011 by Trimmer Link to post Share on other sites
rafallus Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 i recently had my first experience in being with a man who didn't cry. it completely unnerved me.... and i knew i was in REAL trouble. when they're crying, as a woman, it can kind of give you a nurturing level foothold to take back control of the situation. because of this, the one time he DID cry, it really affected me. whereas with my exes i would just roll my eyes, get angrier, tell them to quit pouting etc (believe me when i say they deserved it) also, what whammy said. do that. There is quite a difference when you cry in front of woman who cares about you, and when you cry in front of woman who values her random playboy lover more than she values you. Anyway, OP keep living and take no crap from her. Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I am a bit concerned about her finances. You say she is living off a loan at the moment. That means, she is currently building up debt to fund an affair, which you will no doubt end up paying off (or best case 50%). This would stick in my throat so much that I wouldn't be able to allow her to carry on! If you cut her off and she borrows money from her sister then at least she will be solely responsible for paying her sister back. If you cut her off financially then the first thing she'll do is call you, so you will also have to confront her with what you know. If you confront her then you have to take no sh*t. Just say you know what's going on with XXXXX and hang up. You KNOW what she's going to say back to you so just don't take any more calls, go straight to the lawyer. One thing I would reiterate, don't use the kids or contact with them as a weapon. If they want to talk to her then let them. If you deny contact then it will make you the bad guy and may count against you in the future. Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 ...my wife maintains a facebook site for herself that doesn't specify her marital status and has no references to me whatsoever.... I wasn't sure about what to tell you....I was wondering if perhaps you were overplaying things...then I saw this. Even by itself, the "single" persona on Facebook would be a VERY dangerous sign, warranting strong action in and of itself. Combined with the suspicious trip and callousness towards your feelings, you have MORE than enough info to know that your marriage is in serious trouble and your wife is not currently interested in being married to you. This is a crisis. (The exact details of what she has done with the transatlantic playboy are not of primary importance, IMO.) Decide now whether you want fight for your marriage, and if so, how much time you will devote to it. Whatever you do, do NOT use the children as weapons. Instead, put them first. You know they want to talk to Mommy, so help them call her and talk to her. And don't start stealing joint assets as one poster advised....that puts you in the wrong. Suggest "Marriagebuilders" website for practical actions (Plan A, Plan B) when spouse is in affair. Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 stealing martial assets= wrong. Dividing up martial assets equally= good to go. Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 stealing martial assets= wrong. Dividing up martial assets equally= good to go. Yep, and preventing her accruing more marital debt to fund her affair = definitely good! Link to post Share on other sites
Author thesignsareallthere Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Calls and texts from afar have stopped and even the kids emails have not been replied to by my wife - looks as if she hasn't logged into her account at all so has other priorities I guess. I had them write new ones today and have taken your advisements to keep that communication line open since I'll want it reciprocated in future. I am being the cool cumber now, methodically reviewing electronic files and communications to find or create the "smoking gun". I think I'm just hours away from it and will update when successful meantime on today's list of tasks. Link to post Share on other sites
Afishwithabike Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Good luck! You sound a lot better today. Link to post Share on other sites
samspade Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Start saving cash in a safe deposit box. Link to post Share on other sites
Author thesignsareallthere Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Continuing to execute on the plan. Wonder of wonders my wife sent me a real live email today! Basically, Hi how are you, we take the overnight to a city in Italy tomorrow, send us your Skype number. She also called my house, my mom answered and the wife complained about the stress of raising a family. Said she would call again to talk to the kids but never did because I didn't reply back to her email. Counsellor I met with today basically said I should take advantage of the next three weeks to plan and prepare because the following year or so will be "one of my more challenging years". Maybe I'll set up skype and show my son how to use it so he can communicate with her but I'm staying the course with no contact. Ladies following this sordid tale, what is going through my wife's mind now; a) if she did the dirty deed b) if she didn't do the dirty deed Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 You seem a bit preoccupied with getting ladies' opinions Reclaim your masculinity dude! What you should be asking is men, what would you do in this situation a) if she did the deed and b) if she didn't! I can tell you, a) divorce b) a very long conversation on lack of respect, emotional affairs, secret-keeping, marital communication, and lack of respect again. And marriage counselling for sure. Even if she didn't do the deed then she has acted completely inappropriately and disrespected you and your marriage completely. Link to post Share on other sites
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