She's with him in a hotel in Europe right now!

[Chi townD]

Wow, I'm amazed that this woman hasn't bought a clue and realized that you aren't talking to her yet. However, I agree with others and keep the lines of communication between her and the kids open.

[thesignsareallthere]

Recived recently...

 

"Okay. Since I haven't heard from you for a few days and have had no response to any of my text messages that you must have received, I have to assume you're not interested in communicating with me.

 

...you pouty jerk...

 

Well, you have chosen this path...what can I say. There's already a negative balance in our "bank of love". Your choice. I tried. I can say that. "

Also complains in her new email to our daughter that she's having trouble getting hold of dad.

 

Comments from men and women are all welcomed. My requests to hear from the ladies from time to time is based on experience. The more perspectives I hear from, the better will be the eventual outcome. Hey I'd welcome the imput from Casablancan Gigolos in France but they're probably all too busy wooing frustrated wives... Lawyer meeting comming up.

[PegNosePete]

I would not respond at all to that. She must know that you're suspicious, and she is already coming up with excuses, blame-shifting, gaslighting etc. She's trying to get a rise out of you, to find out what you know. Just don't respond, let her stew. When she gets back be prepared for denail, denial, denial, it sounds like she is the type to deny it until she is blue in the face.

[Chi townD]

Yeah, she may or may not write back. But, if she does you can pretty much assume that she'll say some things to get under your skin.

[rafallus]

Keep your mouth shut as much as possible, don't reveal what you know. Plan to take her by surprise and overwhelm in a final battle, as it's already doomed to end.

[Afishwithabike]

Recived recently...

 

"Okay. Since I haven't heard from you for a few days and have had no response to any of my text messages that you must have received, I have to assume you're not interested in communicating with me.

 

...you pouty jerk...

 

Well, you have chosen this path...what can I say. There's already a negative balance in our "bank of love". Your choice. I tried. I can say that. "

Also complains in her new email to our daughter that she's having trouble getting hold of dad.

 

Comments from men and women are all welcomed. My requests to hear from the ladies from time to time is based on experience. The more perspectives I hear from, the better will be the eventual outcome. Hey I'd welcome the imput from Casablancan Gigolos in France but they're probably all too busy wooing frustrated wives... Lawyer meeting comming up.

 

She said "there's already a negative balance in our "bank of love". I tried. I can say that."

 

Interesting.

 

It sounds like she's blame shifting.

 

Stay strong. Don't respond. Let the children communicate with her as they have so far.

 

Stick with your plan.

[Lucky_One]

Out of curiousity - what would the reactions be if the wife in this case forwarded her hotel reservations to a tour guide in the city that she went on?

 

I travel a lot, and did a lot of that travel on my own, as a single woman. On two occasions, I have used a tour guide who is a local resident, who advertises expressly for one-on-one guides or for families. I wouldn't have had any issue with sending my hotel itinerary to one of those guys.

 

As it is, there really is zero HARD evidence for an affair here. (And trust me - I tend to be pretty jaded about affairs.) There does, though, seem to be a LOT of jumping to conclusions here on this thread.

 

I have to wonder at the motivations of the OP, too, a bit. OP, you seem very very quick to take an awfully hard line with very little evidence to support that your wife is cheating on you. I would guess that you WANT a divorce, and for reasons that have little to do with this situation with your wife. By chance, are you seeing someone, or is there someone you are interested in outside your marriage?

[thesignsareallthere]

OK, Day 7 - sought legal advice and now better understand what my options are - encouraged me to get more evidence before confronting her but that the forwarded email is hugely suspicious.

 

Said reasonable for me to rearrange kids summer commitments now to suit my schedule - (I'll withdraw them from 3 week summer school and send em to all day camp which was what I wanted in the first place since kids are both strong academically) - pick up in middle of work day would be real headache...

 

Going to spend weekend simplifying our overstuffed house - did I mention I'm married to boarderline, albeit organized hoarder...

[Chi townD]

Is there anymore evidence as of late?

[Thehusband2]

Out of curiousity - what would the reactions be if the wife in this case forwarded her hotel reservations to a tour guide in the city that she went on?

 

I travel a lot, and did a lot of that travel on my own, as a single woman. On two occasions, I have used a tour guide who is a local resident, who advertises expressly for one-on-one guides or for families. I wouldn't have had any issue with sending my hotel itinerary to one of those guys.

 

As it is, there really is zero HARD evidence for an affair here. (And trust me - I tend to be pretty jaded about affairs.) There does, though, seem to be a LOT of jumping to conclusions here on this thread.

 

I have to wonder at the motivations of the OP, too, a bit. OP, you seem very very quick to take an awfully hard line with very little evidence to support that your wife is cheating on you. I would guess that you WANT a divorce, and for reasons that have little to do with this situation with your wife. By chance, are you seeing someone, or is there someone you are interested in outside your marriage?

 

I've been reading the thread too, and am wondering about evidence, perhaps not so much motivation though.

 

Being uncaring is a bad thing, but doesn't make one unfaithful! Maybe she needed a break and that is why she decided to go to Europe. Maybe she really wanted to support her sister. She did invite you though, right??

 

I'm not saying you're wrong here I am not saying she is the best wife on the planet, BUT, there is a difference between negligence to a relationship and all out infidelity! Also, although she has a past...past actions do not always reflect future ones.

 

I think you need more evidence man!!!

[mysteriousbox]

I could be wrong but I believe that the OP stated that his wife has been an affair before which is why most posters are saying get out of the marriage.

[Thehusband2]

I could be wrong but I believe that the OP stated that his wife has been an affair before which is why most posters are saying get out of the marriage.

 

i agree, if my wife had an affair id be gone!!!

 

but OP+wife, they've chosen to work initial affair out and this current issue (the trip, perhaps current affair) is what OP is basing his relationship decision on. To OP, I am not saying you should not divorce, but if you are looking for a smoking gun, or atleast a little evidence...I feel (my opinion only) that you dont have it.

[mysteriousbox]

I'd have to disagree with you. While each circumstance on it's on shouldn't cause any reason to believe there's something going on they do add up and it's hard for me at least to believe there's nothing untoward happening.

- Leaving for a vacation for a month against your spouse's wishes and it would seem at least half the time without any family/friends to keep an eye on you (especially given wife's history).

- Being emotionally distant leading up to the vacation.

- Forwarding your hotel reservation (but also never mentioning this to the spouse as he found out on his own).

- Being completely out of contact from spouse and kids when she arrives in Paris for multiple days.

- Finding a reason to extend her time in Paris.

 

Probably others reasons but from most posters point of view where there's smoke there's fire. And even if there's is no affair, it sounds like OP has run out of patience with being walked all over by his wife.

[Thehusband2]

I'd have to disagree with you. While each circumstance on it's on shouldn't cause any reason to believe there's something going on they do add up and it's hard for me at least to believe there's nothing untoward happening.

- Leaving for a vacation for a month against your spouse's wishes and it would seem at least half the time without any family/friends to keep an eye on you (especially given wife's history).

- Being emotionally distant leading up to the vacation.

- Forwarding your hotel reservation (but also never mentioning this to the spouse as he found out on his own).

- Being completely out of contact from spouse and kids when she arrives in Paris for multiple days.

- Finding a reason to extend her time in Paris.

 

Probably others reasons but from most posters point of view where there's smoke there's fire. And even if there's is no affair, it sounds like OP has run out of patience with being walked all over by his wife.

 

There is nothing to disagree with!

 

All this is plenty to justify the break-up, however, IF you are trying to justify the breakup with infidelity, what I am saying is that the proof is not there from what I have been reading!!!

 

Honesty is an issue, communication, history, lack of caring all there and that is plenty that would make many people want to leave...but is there solid evidence of cheating...I feel ther isnt yet

[thesignsareallthere]

I have to admit, it's really hard cutting off communications entirely. What if I'm wrong and am actually pushing a distressed marriage into an unrecoverable one? I did say that I'd revisit my decision to remain silent once rested and at this moment, I'm having sober second thoughts. My wife is a very good mother, but she's not great with stress and as a single, bitter woman it will hurt my kids immeasurably. Then again, as a somewhat bitter married woman it's not much good either.

 

My brother sent me a gift today - a muscle magazine, a dozen golf balls and "wife-beater" style undershirt. Interesting symbolism given that he's aware of some of the details of my situation. It gave me a good laugh - he's had his own experiences with infidelity.

 

I'll sleep on it tonight and read any additional postings. In three days the ship sails, not much chance now that she'll hop a plane home. I could try the indirect route and ask my soon to be ex brother in law if he's heard from his kids (the ones travelling with my wife). He could ask them innocently who shared the bed with aunt xxxxx in Paris - if they say that she didn't stay with them overnight or disappeared for long stretches of time, then more circumstantial evidence. Also he could ask who's on the phone and texting more? Mommy or aunty XXXXX. My wife is certainly not calling or texting me so it would be a strong indicator of arranging meetings. To the poster who said I must want a divorce, not so, not in the least, but at the same time, without trust there's no foundation upon which to restore my marriage to a state of health. Sober second thoughts...

[osoda]

You know her best, not us.

 

Trust your gut - what does it tell you? Anonymous internet advice is going to get you only so far.

 

And even if this doesn't pan out as you imagine it would - do you really want to stay in a marriage where you have to deal with this kind of suspicion every time your wife leaves your sight?

[PegNosePete]

Don't bring the other kids into it. Asking them about sleeping arrangements or phones, it's bringing kids into an adult's world, don't do it. It's manipulative and you may be called out on it later. Leave the adults problems to be sorted out by the adults.

 

She might be a good mother but that doesn't mean she is a good wife. She can still be a good mother after divorce. In the long run it is better for the kids to have 2 happy, separate parents than 2 unhappy married ones. You are entitled to your happiness too, so don't stay with her "for the kids". When they grow up they will understand.

 

I think the chance that this is all innocent is 0%. But I do think that when she gets back she will be in Denial City. She will blame-shift, gaslight and distort events to make you seem the bad guy. You need to be ready for that.

 

Another thing I would say is that depending on your location, your lawyer may be overstepping his bounds somewhat. Lawyers are expensive. You pay them to do a job: to get a divorce and to get you the best financial settlement possible. For him to be giving you advice about getting evidence and whether she is having an affair or not, seems like it's not something you should be paying £200 an hour for. Unless you live in a fault-based state and evidence of an affair would get you a better settlement? If you're in a no-fault state then I would suggest sticking to the business at hand with the lawyer, and getting your advice about evidence etc elsewhere (eg here ).

[rafallus]

All this is plenty to justify the break-up, however, IF you are trying to justify the breakup with infidelity, what I am saying is that the proof is not there from what I have been reading!!!

No, it doesn't matter really, if you have proof. What matters is that you really don't trust her at all. And living relationship like that is close to hell.

 

I have to admit, it's really hard cutting off communications entirely. What if I'm wrong and am actually pushing a distressed marriage into an unrecoverable one? I did say that I'd revisit my decision to remain silent once rested and at this moment, I'm having sober second thoughts. My wife is a very good mother, but she's not great with stress and as a single, bitter woman it will hurt my kids immeasurably. Then again, as a somewhat bitter married woman it's not much good either.

 

My brother sent me a gift today - a muscle magazine, a dozen golf balls and "wife-beater" style undershirt. Interesting symbolism given that he's aware of some of the details of my situation. It gave me a good laugh - he's had his own experiences with infidelity.

 

I'll sleep on it tonight and read any additional postings. In three days the ship sails, not much chance now that she'll hop a plane home. I could try the indirect route and ask my soon to be ex brother in law if he's heard from his kids (the ones travelling with my wife). He could ask them innocently who shared the bed with aunt xxxxx in Paris - if they say that she didn't stay with them overnight or disappeared for long stretches of time, then more circumstantial evidence. Also he could ask who's on the phone and texting more? Mommy or aunty XXXXX. My wife is certainly not calling or texting me so it would be a strong indicator of arranging meetings. To the poster who said I must want a divorce, not so, not in the least, but at the same time, without trust there's no foundation upon which to restore my marriage to a state of health. Sober second thoughts...

Up to you to make a final decision though. There always could be something only you know...

[thesignsareallthere]

If I were to ask the question point blank, "Tell me about your relationship with XXXX XXXXXX XXXXX?" , if she's got nothing to hide, "it should be a very quick answer - oh - that was the guy in the internet cafe who printed the direction map for me." Then she'll ask me why I'm monitoring her email account and change the password, maybe hang up.

 

If she's got something to hide, then she'll first get angry, accuse me of snooping and say it's none of my dam business. Or maybe she'll say, never heard of him (response is to describe opposite scenario with me as angry traveller) Then hang up, change email password, delete text messages, call the dude and warn him to be extra vigilant (or maybe he thinks she's single so she can't). Anyway the explaination would be contrived and take a longer than normal time to answer. Without body language of face to face, lots of information lost. One thing is for sure, the rest of her vacation will not be very enjoyable for her. I could increase my odds of an all out confession by suggesting that I know something and that it will come back to haunt her if she tries to deny it. By the way,what is gaslighting?

[PegNosePete]

Gaslighting is changing your perception and memory of past events to fit her "facts". Comes from an old movie where the main character made his wife go mad by slowly turning down the brightness of the gas lights in the house over a few weeks, and then telling her that he hadn't noticed any change, that it's all in her mind, and that she must be going mad. So in your case she is trying to convince you that you've been a bad husband, that your marriage was already destined to fail, and that it's all your fault... thus justifying her behaviour.

 

You could try one of those confrontation methods you mention, but be aware she may have pre-planned answers or explanations to who he is. And if she has, and throws you off the trail, the affair will certainly go wayyy underground.

[Lucky_One]

Ok. So you don't want a divorce.

 

Do you love your wife? All these posts, and not a single declaration of love or statement of desire to have a healthy, happy marriage.

 

What was the tension about before she left on the trip? You describe her as somewhat bitter; where did that stem from? Would you say you had a happy marriage? Would your wife?

 

I am not saying that if she HAS been unfaithful that it is a good thing or is understandable!! Not at all. I am just saying that there is something going on to even make you IMMEDIATELY jump to getting a lawyer and instigating a divorce before you even talk to your wife or try to figure out what has gone wrong in your marriage and see if there is any chance of reconciliation.

 

What gives?

[thesignsareallthere]

Yes, I still love her, I'm just feeling bured and crapped on. We've had our ups and downs but always were able to reconcile and move on. The previous wandering was right at the beginning of our relationship almost 20 years ago, we'd only dated for few weeks when she went off to Europe to study French (how ironic). We kept in touch during that time but as I recall drifted apart as long distance relationships do and months after I stumbled on the postcards and diary to learn that she had brief flings with 3 or 4 guys she met in her travels. yes, the precedent is there. Shi*t.

 

I agree, there may already be pre-planned answers because by now she must be suspicious as hell that there's more to my silence than just being pissed at her going away.

 

Even so I think it would be relatively easy once she returns to confirm that she was playing around if indeed it is the case by keeping a close eye on phone bills, etc. It's sneaky and another sign of erroded trust, but probably it's the easiest way I can think of to get the proof I need. I'm told that 50% of wives admit to going through their husbands' wallets and reciepts in pants pockets and the other half who claim they don't are liars.

 

BTW, legal advice was 30 min consult available through my work's employee benefit plan - same with counselling, so it was easy to procure and free and I don't regret doing it before confronting her.

[GorillaTheater]

Sounds like you're doing as well as can be expected. Sneaky or not, I think it's a good plan for now to go through phone and internet histories. You can't deal with what you don't know. And it's also a good plan to have as much evidence as possible when you sit down with her. Give her no room to maneuver her way around the truth. You want to reconcile, but I can't see how you can even start on that course without (a) you knowing the truth, and (b) her acknowledging the truth.

[Lucky_One]

A quick thought - I don't necessarily see a "precedent" being set by her having some short-term flings while she was studying in France and you two had just started dating and had drifted apart. I can't really imagine many unattached college students not exploring sexual partnership in such a situation.

 

What might be important is that whether you two have been faithful to each other once you entered into a serious, committed relationship and marriage.

[Chi townD]

A quick thought - I don't necessarily see a "precedent" being set by her having some short-term flings while she was studying in France and you two had just started dating and had drifted apart. I can't really imagine many unattached college students not exploring sexual partnership in such a situation.

 

What might be important is that whether you two have been faithful to each other once you entered into a serious, committed relationship and marriage.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that she DID send her hotel information secretly to other man upon her arrival and days before her sister was to arrive.