She's with him in a hotel in Europe right now!

[Pianiste]

So the wife called and my daughter handed me the phone and after a few minutes of uncomfortable chatting and my telling her how disappointing it was that she had gone on the trip I asked her who is XXXXXX and why did you forward your private hotel information to him? She was silent and stumbled for about 2 or 3 minutes saying she didn't do it, then said,

 

"Oh yes, I needed to provide a printed version of my hotwire reservation to the hotel front desk and the easiest way was to forward it to the guy working there because the front desk printer was broken, so he could print it from his local printer - the girl at the front desk was Jazzy etc, etc..."

 

She was very convincing, but a quick phone call to the hotel should confirm whether or not the guy works there.

 

She might have been convincing, but is the story convincing? Far from it.

[thesignsareallthere]

Yes, it did seem to take her a long time to explain the reason, but I checked the actual reservation "Hotwire" and it says is must be presented at the desk at the time of checking in, requirement to prove that hotel has been pre-paid.

 

As for the cruise ship atmosphere, whether or not I confronted her, whether or not she had an affair, there's nothing I can do about that now. Shortly I'll be able to confirm if the guy in question actually is an employee and if so, as far as I'm concerned the story makes sense. I've heard it said "trust, but verify" so naturally I'll doublecheck the electronic and physical paper trails for a few weeks and maybe it's time to get a keylogger on the computer anyway (for the kids). Is this more like the y2k crisis (where nothing actually happened) or the moon landing deniers (where something actually did happen).

 

Anyway, going to be making a few trips to charity with the crap I'm cleaning out of the house. Purging feels good.

 

Never did send the email.

[Lucky_One]

A gentle word of advice: the stuff you may deem clutter or junk may be things that are important to your wife. You may want to clean out, but you may want to box it up and let her go through it after she comes home. You may end up throwing away things that are irreplaceable in her eyes. I can't imagine how upset I would be to find out that my H went through drawers and things and got rid of stuff without consulting me; he doesn't know the "stories" behind much of it or where it came from or why it might be important.

 

I am glad you didn't send the email. It appears that a whole lot of jumping to conclusions has happened in this thread, and IF a marriage needs to end (and sometimes marriages do need to end), it needs to end with dignity, communication and facts.

[Chi townD]

At first when you brought up the name of the guy and her saying she didn't do it; she was in shock that you found out and her brain wasn't ready for a viable answer to your question, THEN after the shock wore off did she start coming up with this printer excuse. THEN blameshifting...something happened brother. Expect more texts and e-mails from her trying to make that excuse more believeable.

[Lucky_One]

At first when you brought up the name of the guy and her saying she didn't do it; she was in shock that you found out and her brain wasn't ready for a viable answer to your question, THEN after the shock wore off did she start coming up with this printer excuse. THEN blameshifting...something happened brother. Expect more texts and e-mails from her trying to make that excuse more believeable.

 

I'm curious. With nothing more than a forwarded email as a fact, why are you SO adamant that this man believe that his wife has been cheating on him?

 

Maybe it's just me left alone in the world now, but I try very hard to gather facts and look hard at what I am seeing, before I jump to hard-and-fast conclusions. Maybe she HAS cheated, but there is nothing at THIS point that proves that (and very slim circumstantial evidence, as well) and you are trying to convince this man to set a divorce in motion?

[Chi townD]

Behavior patterns that people have seen time and time again on these forums. Some of them are so predictable that is isn't even funny. For instance, before the OP finally talked to his wife and confronted her with what he knew, people were warning him that she would gas-light and blame-shift. And that's EXACTLY what happened. Like, right out of the text book.

And also from personal experience. Learning to see the red flags.

 

Now, I'm not saying that she cheated. I believe in my post I wrote that something happened. So, I believe that something innappropriate occurred. What that is, is still to be determined. But, in a marriage, it doesn't bode well.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Chi townD

[whammy]

So the wife called and my daughter handed me the phone and after a few minutes of uncomfortable chatting and my telling her how disappointing it was that she had gone on the trip I asked her who is XXXXXX and why did you forward your private hotel information to him? She was silent and stumbled for about 2 or 3 minutes saying she didn't do it, then said,

 

"Oh yes, I needed to provide a printed version of my hotwire reservation to the hotel front desk and the easiest way was to forward it to the guy working there because the front desk printer was broken, so he could print it from his local printer - the girl at the front desk was Jazzy etc, etc..."

 

She was very convincing, but a quick phone call to the hotel should confirm whether or not the guy works there.

 

Of course the ensuing conversation quickly devolved into a litany of complaints about me - that I don't do enough around the house, don't know her well, am paranoid and overly suspicious (proof in the pudding here I guess). I'll call the hotel later tonight, see if said Moroccan works there and if yes, phew, at least there's not an affair to deal with. If not, then all bets are off.

 

If the story checks out, perhaps I should fly to Europe for few weeks for some R&R once my wife returns.

 

I didnt know it was standard protocol for hotwire to give the personal email addresses of every hotel employee in the world (how else would she have gotten it) and I also didnt know that hotwire makes you reserve the hotel personally you have already paid hotwire for said hotel... im glad we settled that.

[P&R]

http://www.hotwire.com/travel-information/privacy-policy.jsp

[thesignsareallthere]

I just confirmed it, the dude my wife forwarded her hotel information to is indeed an employee of the hotel - I called asking to leave a message for him and the front desk lady told me he's off today but returning for work tommorrow. So the signs were not all there. Whoever was arguing above that there wasn't any real proof was inciteful to say the least. I'm sure this thread will now start to fade into the archives - I will swing back to the blog and give an update once my wife returns since there's still the little matter of her ditching me and the kids for a month at a hugely inopportune time and feeling entirely justified in doing so. Any way I look at it, my marriage is still in a precarious position and whether it recovers and gets stronger from this near death experience or flames out is yet to be determined.

 

On the de-cluttering, I'll heed your advice and not toss out my wife's personal stuff as I appreciate there's sentiment sometimes tied to the littlest of things. Focus will be on space consuming sh*t like lamps from IKEA returns section, kids outgrown gap clothes and things that we not longer use but have not bothered to deal with like car seats, strollers, old skiis etc...

 

I took the initiative to book a new couples counsellor that comes well recommended but has not met either of us. In reading about divorce I gather that when kids are involved it's not so much an ending of a relationship but a redefinition. Old problems are quickly replaced with equally and often worse new problems and the kids pay the biggest price in their own loss of self esteem.

 

Out of curiousity, at one poster's suggestion, I forwarded th draft email that I was going to send to my wife to the psychologist (who theorized that my wife's mental state was a causal factor for her taking off to Europe). She said to take out the emotional part about missing my daughter's performance and my own lamenting but to send everything else. I didn't send it but I guess much of the information is still relevent. The ship sets sail today and I've got another 2+ weeks to go.

 

Not sure whether anyone else has benefited from this wierd experience but I have been helped greatly. Especially the comments from folks who've told me to get some balls and stop acting like a doormat. I hear you loud and clear.

 

Thank you.

 

... thesignsareallthere (not)

[denise_xo]

Well, whatever happens next I hope it works out well for the two of you.

 

I hope this is a lesson that we can all take to heart. Way too often I see posters on this forum jumping to the "THAT SLUT (SHE)/BASTARD (HE) IS DEFINITELY CHEATING STAGE AN ALL OUT WAR ON THAT PIECE OF **** NOW" based on way too little evidence. I really don't think that's very constructive.

[Lucky_One]

I'm glad to read your post. I think the couples counseling is a GREAT idea, and yes - relationships definitely change and shift when children are there (and relationships shift when all the children hit different stages, too - the toddler years were much different than the teen years, for example).

 

I know you feel tremendously abandoned, but to be honest, if I was going to Europe on a personal trip, I would try to add as much time to the trip as I could. Seeing a foreign city all on your own is exhilarating, when you have only yourself to take care of and consider. Traveling with young kids is an entirely different scenario, and she wouldn't have the time/opportunity to do some activities that aren't all that child-friendly. I don't blame her at all for that.

 

I don't know why you say this was such a bad time for her to take this time to go, but since part of the trip was already paid for by her sister and since the airfare was a given expense, I would have tried to work the expenses part out as best I could to squeeze as much time in as possible.

 

Good luck in your future, and I wish the best for you, your wife, and your marriage!!

[imagine]

Your marriage HAS problems. You need to build a new one.

 

I recommend that you visit Marriagebuilders.com. Beware the folk are quite harsh there but the articles are brilliant.

 

All the best in your NEW marriage.

[cheating-husband]

So there's a guy that is going through a breakup and as a way to get over it he travels to Europe with another mans wife? It's a tricky situation you've got there.

 

I am a little confused. Is that slimy playboy your wife's friend, or she is meeting a girlfriend that is going through a break up but you are suspicious she is with another guy because of the email she forwarded? Don't rush into decision making. Gather evidence to prove your suspicion or you might wreck your relationship without reason.

[John Michael Kane]

Way too often I see posters on this forum jumping to the "THAT SLUT (SHE)/BASTARD (HE) IS DEFINITELY CHEATING STAGE AN ALL OUT WAR ON THAT PIECE OF **** NOW" based on way too little evidence.

 

LOL The evidence is quite clear to see that one is cheating, and besides as the thread progresses, it's almost always true that someone was cheating. Just look at the Separation and Divorce forum.

 

I really don't think that's very constructive.

 

Yea? Well neither is "Oh so glad you got your married man" and "You're just insecure and jealous and bitter."

 

And lastly, "Stay with your cheating wife because you two have kids."

 

Yea that's constructive.

[John Michael Kane]

Dude you know she's cheating. Divorce her.

[rafallus]

I hope this is a lesson that we can all take to heart. Way too often I see posters on this forum jumping to the "THAT SLUT (SHE)/BASTARD (HE) IS DEFINITELY CHEATING STAGE AN ALL OUT WAR ON THAT PIECE OF **** NOW" based on way too little evidence. I really don't think that's very constructive.

 

Lack of proof isn't a problem. Lack of trust, on the other hand...

[Lucky_One]

Dude you know she's cheating. Divorce her.

 

Dude, did you read the whole thread?

[John Michael Kane]

Dude, did you read the whole thread?

 

Dude, did you read the whole thread?

[Lucky_One]

Dude, did you read the whole thread?

 

Yes. I did.

 

And it is amazing how you will come here and tell this guy that he should divorce his wife for cheating. With ZERO shred of evidence that she has even kissed, much less had sex with, another man on this trip.

 

:rolleyes:

[John Michael Kane]

Yes. I did.

 

Nope.

 

And it is amazing how you will come here and tell this guy that he should divorce his wife for cheating. Sorry this is a public board. Don't like it too bad.

And it is amazing how you come here and tell this guy he's insecure and because he said he didn't love his wife on this thread, supposedly he caused this problem,

 

With ZERO shred of evidence that she has even kissed, much less had sex with, another man on this trip.

when there's a ton of evidence from what he posted that she has cheated on him.

 

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[fltc]

Update, please. Is your wife home yet?

[thesignsareallthere]

Update, please. Is your wife home yet?

 

No, communication has been very little, 1 flamer email blaming me for kids being upset that she's gone - recommending I get counselling so I'm able to care for them better and to treat my paranoia and couple of quick skype calls mostly with the kids. My son sent an email "COMEHOME SOS!" to her, to which reply was "hang in there and go easy on dad". My calls were very brief, basically mechanical and me stating we won't be able to sort things out over the phone and next conversations need to be face to face. Cleaning out 7 years of detritus from the house has made it much easier to live there - not quite finished and didn't touch her personal stuff, just consolidated it. Any way I cut it, things have got to change - fewer commitments - she hated that I coached both kids ball teams this spring so my volunteering will take a hiatus and kids will underscheduled if I have anything to do with it. Now that car fits in garage and all stuff is inboxes and neatly labelled, same with much of house contents, that stress is reduced. Came across great "rules of engagement" groundrules for quarelling couples and I'll see if I can get her to agree to them before we start our "things have to change" discussion. basically, no "always/never", not drudging up ancient history, no name calling, now shouting/screaming, no insults or put downs, equal air time, no interrupting, allow time outs if heated, tackle one issue at a time, no threats of divorce and keep it away from the kids. Not rocket science but my wife is highly emotional and prone to doing all of the above.

 

What I need to do is not correct her grammer which is hard to do - she'll say "The keys are missing again, where did you put it?" to which I might reply "THEY are on the table"

 

But all the above is minor - the real conversation we need to have is are we still committed to staying together and the answer I just don't know. I know that an ideal is together and happy and respectful of each other, but that may be a pipe dream. Also if there has been any "polishing of the pipes" overseas then it will be easy to figure out - too many electronic footprints to keep hidden. Fingers crossed there's nothing there. Not really sure but I'll refrain from any future accusations unless a real smoking gun appear and do my best to trust, but verify as one of our movie star presidents used to say.

[fltc]

Thanks for the update, seems like you're doing very well with plans and actions.

 

Keep us updated, we're here for you.

[Washburn]

Even though others seem to think she def. had an affair or is having one over in Europe I just dont see any definitive proof. Even with the unknown guy receiving the email I didnt think that that was clear indication of an affair. And since I guess the email really was going to a hotel employee it probably really proves she wasn't. At least not with him. Is she acting odd? Yes. So far she has:

 

1) Gone to Europe for an extended period of time by herself really. She has left you to work, watch the kids, clean up, pay bills etc. while she is paying with a LOAN for this trip. That sounds irresponsible def. During this time she missed fathers day (which she should have been there to make u feel special instead of just sending you a text) and missed one of her children's performances. Of course, as mentioned, she missed all her responsibilities in a household: work, child care, etc.

 

2) Been cold and distant. You said she had communicated infrequently, especially during the first few days. She sent just a text for fathers day. She has communicated by email during most of that( I would want to TALK to my loved ones). At one time she avoided your phone call (you heard it ring in the background or something akin to that).

 

So could she be having an affair? Yeah, its possible. She might not have gone over there with anyone in mind but maybe she picked up some Euro guys along the way, who knows? You said she did that b4 when you guys first starting going out. But again, I dont feel there is any proof. I think when you asked about that guy specifically and caught her off guard it wasn't cause she was having an affair but it was because she was just caught so off guard. She might have been thinking "what?" "how would he know about this?" Then came to the conclusion you were snooping through her email. She was taken aback by it for sure. Maybe she is angry you did snoop.

 

I think that she is taking a break from a stressful marriage. You say she has been depressed and you guys have been having problems so she wanted to get away from it all for a period of time. So she did just that, ran off to Europe. IMO thats not a responsbile way to do things. She didnt care about the burden it placed on you and how it affected your kids. She didn't care about the cost. If there were problems then she should have worked them out with counseling or whatever. Of course you two need to do that when she gets back.

 

Should you bring up your thoughts on an affair, eh I dont know. I probably wouldn't. Maybe when you get those phone records you wanted then I would reevalaute if you wish to do that or not.

[elleorbianca]

What I need to do is not correct her grammer which is hard to do - she'll say "The keys are missing again, where did you put it?" to which I might reply "THEY are on the table"

You sound really neurotic. Why would you feel the NEED to correct this, especially if she doesn't like when you do so? By the way, how is your grammAr, because your spelling isn't too hot?

 

You accuse her of cheating because you went through an email and saw a forward with absolutely no other proof.

 

You bring up the fact that when you just started getting to know each other, 6 weeks in, she had a good time in Europe that included other men. Going by your posts, I wouldn't be surprised if you guys were not exclusive at the time and you are just upset and jealous that a woman you were getting to know, enjoyed the company of other men.

 

You try to emotionally blackmail her by saying you are sitting at home crying instead of encouraging her to have a good time so she can come back to the States relaxed.

 

 

In conclusion, I am not surprised she needed a break from you.