carhill Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Who initially suggested opening up the marriage to other partners during this separation? Why, after 'almost starting an affair with a married man' (I commend you for both the speed with which you can do this and deciding not to), is focusing on the M now a priority for yourself? I understand the 'bond-breaking' part. When you agreed to, or suggested, opening up the M, you both broke a prior agreement of fidelity, voluntarily and agreeably. Why has that changed? What do you know now that you didn't know before? I would echo the advice of others, if there is no compromise on this issue, to file for divorce or for a legal separation. The issue, as it currently stands, is an elemental incompatibility, apparently irreconcilable for now. OK, if so, accept that and proceed with the next step and formalize the separation legally. He can then date others with a clear conscience, as can you. Hope it works out Link to post Share on other sites
Author bc83 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 bc83, I have a strong suspicion that dontKnowMe is your husband! Either that or just a troll. Or giving out bad advice in order to justify his own actions/situation. EVERY other poster here has the same viewpoint, so I would suggest ignoring dontKnowMe form now on. It's so weird! I thought that with his first post to this thread. Since I know that both parties are occasionally on LS, I looked at his posts on other threads and I don't think it's my husband. A pretty reasonable facsimile, I must say! Or he thought ahead enough to change one or two key facts to cover his tracks, but he's not the kind of person to do that. Funny story - I copied part of a different thread and pasted it into a document to send to him, yesterday. I changed my user name and the responder's name, too. I sent it to him - he emailed back it was good, and food for thought. I responded did you actually read the whole thing? Yes, he said. I said did it seem familiar? And he said no. I had very specific unusual facts in the thread and he didn't pick up on it. Sheesh. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Has H worked through his homosexual ambivalence? Since the topic title is 'dates other women', I presume so, but wanted to clarify that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author bc83 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Has H worked through his homosexual ambivalence? Since the topic title is 'dates other women', I presume so, but wanted to clarify that. Ooo you're quick! I was trying to pull up the other threads I've been on or started to pull together the answers to your questions. And yes, he's worked through that - he's not interested in M2M anymore, and may not be interested in MFM with me. Just a MFF, like most men I guess! We both have wanted to pursue the same-sex thing in a not-threatening-to-the-marriage way, and when we decided to separate this time, we agreed to be open to dating others during the first four months mainly for us each to go down those roads. But he has ended up only pursuing women (not that that's a surprise). My jealousy reared its ugly head when I found out he'd actually dated and kissed, and seen one woman more than once. I sure didn't anticipate how strong my emotion would get. hence my unwillingness to pursue seeing someone other than him, and my unwillingness to go along with the whole "work on us while seeing others" scenario. I know he loves me and would be completely bereft if we end up apart, for real, as would I. He just is such a selfish schmuck with a *&^%-on for any woman in a tank top these days. If you read some of my other posts you'll see that he and I are very compatible in bed so it's not that he's missing out on anything than the spark of infatuation. As to your suggestion to legally separate so he can date with a clear consciense, I hear you but get sick to my stomach at the thought. Jealousy again. Filing papers won't make that go away, unfortunately. BC Link to post Share on other sites
dontKnowMe Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 bc83, I have a strong suspicion that dontKnowMe is your husband! Either that or just a troll. Or giving out bad advice in order to justify his own actions/situation. EVERY other poster here has the same viewpoint, so I would suggest ignoring dontKnowMe form now on. Heh. No, I'm neither her husband nor a troll. I was just trying to help by proposing a different view point. Clearly everyone is so close minded that that can't even consider for a second an opposing view. These boards are a joke. 99% of people posting here have been hurt and they can't separate their hurt and their personal situations to help people find happiness. Link to post Share on other sites
Author bc83 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Heh. No, I'm neither her husband nor a troll. I was just trying to help by proposing a different view point. Clearly everyone is so close minded that that can't even consider for a second an opposing view. These boards are a joke. 99% of people posting here have been hurt and they can't separate their hurt and their personal situations to help people find happiness. OK - I would like to know more about how to separate hurt from a personal situation. I'm trying to not dismiss your view. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 A question to ponder is, if he wasn't "just a selfish schmuck with a *&^%-on for any woman in a tank top these days" but rather committed to working on the M, would you be as attracted (jealousy is a function of attraction) as you currently are? After all, you once weren't, back before you and he opened up the M, which perhaps impelled your suggestion and/or agreement. Another question to ask yourself (and him) is why, if he loves you so much, he's being " such a selfish schmuck with a *&^%-on for any woman in a tank top these days". What brand of love is that? Clarify that. Since you're 'very compatible in bed', I presume your sexual intimacy has continued while you have been dating others and you continue to cohabit. If he chooses to continue to date others, like this weekend, what is your next step? Take one positive step today. What is it? Link to post Share on other sites
findingmeagain Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Working on your relationship is just that....working on your relationship...NOT dating!!! How can a marriage work if one party is dating? When working on something you focus on that alone, dating is what happens AFTER you decide it's not going to work. And no, I have not been hurt either...I was the 'hurter'....even I can see how F****D up your theory is!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author bc83 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 A question to ponder is, if he wasn't "just a selfish schmuck with a *&^%-on for any woman in a tank top these days" but rather committed to working on the M, would you be as attracted (jealousy is a function of attraction) as you currently are? After all, you once weren't, back before you and he opened up the M, which perhaps impelled your suggestion and/or agreement. I have come to realize that what I did with my physical attraction for him over the last few weeks was very much attached to my knowledge of what he'd been up to. But I do know that putting aside all the #$%^ that's going on, and has gone on, for the last several years, he and I still are hot for each other. The level of my attraction before the agreement was consistent, it was just whether or not he and I played so many mind games that I would withhold sex in anger. Fun times!! Another question to ask yourself (and him) is why, if he loves you so much, he's being " such a selfish schmuck with a *&^%-on for any woman in a tank top these days". What brand of love is that? Clarify that. If I could clarify it maybe I could handle it better, I suppose. It's a crappy, inconsistent, easily distracted, not-very-trustworthy, grass may be greener but I've been good so far so give me a break brand of love, one that is the result of absolutely no good role models of what a loving relationship looks like. Not to make excuses for him, though. And I have admitted fault in not holding him to a higher relationship standard over the last 20 years - I let him get away with not communicating with me, etc. Maybe the more important question is why haven't I walked? Is my self-esteem that low? Or am I just unwilling to take on the anticipated anguish of a real break? I keep saying it's in his power to decide to stray or to stay and work with me, but I'm doing myself a disservice that way, and not being strong. 95% of the time though I'm the one making the decisions in the family. I'm the one who moved out, too. Since you're 'very compatible in bed', I presume your sexual intimacy has continued while you have been dating others and you continue to cohabit. If he chooses to continue to date others, like this weekend, what is your next step? Take one positive step today. What is it? Our agreement was that there would be no physical contact with each other during the four month period, and we hadn't decided yet if he and I would go out on dates with each other (but without sex) during the four months. I moved out May 21st. We've had intimate physical contact three times since then, usually after spending long periods of time with each other and our family. If he chooses to go on a date this weekend? Hmm. Today I think that would strengthen my resolve with LC. But that technically isn't a so-called positive step for the day, it's just a wish that I'd be stronger, I guess. So here's one that I just thought of: regardless of whether or not he dates again this weekend, I won't ask about it. That will be really, really hard for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author bc83 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 So, while I was working out like mad at the club, I came to the conclusion that I deserved way more than a guy who like my husband, who couldn't make a decision, who coulnd't figure out that a long term relationship with me would have different benefits than a short term &*^% with a woman he met online who is divorced and ready to spread her legs. I know I"m better than that, I just feel so beaten down by so many years of feeling that my ship is attached to his. How do I make a break from him that doesn't kill me with anguish in the meantime? We talked together tonight - but he left in a huff when I said that to me, it really comes down to choosing me or not me. Stay posted. Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Go you!! He seems like a spoiled child who's just been told he can't have fish fingers AND McDonald's for tea. Making a break most likely will kill you with anguish for a little while. It always does I'm afraid, there's no getting away from it. But you can reduce the anguish, and you can get through it. Not talking to him (NC) will help. The last thing you want is to drag it out for weeks talking to him about your feelings, being fed breadcrumbs and listening to him whine on about how great you are whilst he is treating you like a piece of sh*t. If you decide it's over, then it's OVER and you need to make that clear to him. Link to post Share on other sites
Donewrong Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I agree with PNP. It will be devistating for a while guess what??? You are the mature one in the relationship so once you make the decision, stick with it. If he wants to act single..then so be it - he cannot be acting single and dating all while being married... YOU DESERVE BETTER. NC with him at all unless it is kid related. I remember when my husband was with his OW he would be constantly texting me and it was horrible. It was worse when he lived at home and started dating her...I honestly thought life wasn't worth living. To see him get ready to go out, shaving & showering, then coming home smelling of her and then telling me details of the date. Being with me one night and spending the night together and going out with the GF the next night. To have him end a conversation with me because it was time to call his GF..oh heavens... I nearly didn't survive the last couple weeks he lived at home. I thought once he moved out it would be better because I wouldn't have to witness it anymore. It did get better but the contact didn't stop. I rememeber one weekend I was playing cards at a friends house - girls night and he was constantly texting me. One of the ladies said...WTH if he's decided to get into another relationship - why is he constantly bothering you. It was only a month after that that I finally said no more. Yeah I made mistakes but I didn't deserve to feel tortured constantly so I decided to do something different since what I was doing wasn't working. I decided to go on a dinner date. Only 1 day after my first dinner date my husband decided to leave the OW and reconcile with me. I don't know what triggered his decision - and I really don't care. Nor do I think you dating is the answer. Focus on you and the kids first and foremost. When you come to a place where you are happy then you can bring someone else into the picture. I think what you need to do is stop jumping every time he says jump. Set up strong ground rules and boundaries and stand by them. Tell him if he wants OW then he can't have you as well and you will move on with your life. To dull the pain..well personally, I drank lots of wine when my husband first moved out...I was only sleeping maybe 2-4 hrs sleep each night and I was only getting that much thanks to the wine. ..but that wasn't the answer. Work out, hang out with friends, family, anyone that supports you. Do things you love to do, start a new hobby. Spend time with the kids watching movies or doing their favorite crafts, riding bike, or playing hoops...anything to keep your body active and your mind busy. The more you do right not the less spare time your mind will have to torture yourself!! I am thinking of you and I hope you do something different today to make yourself happy and for one day not think about him or what he is doing. DW Link to post Share on other sites
robf1971 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 OK - I would like to know more about how to separate hurt from a personal situation. I'm trying to not dismiss your view. Your husband is cake eating and has zero respect for you. This is why he's trampling over your feelings like they don't exist. You are allowing yourself to be a backup option. Note: the word ALLOWING You can stop this by the act of taking yourself away as an option. No need to be nasty even You to husband "I get it now H, you don't want to be married to be and my feelings have changed now, I agree and no longer want to be married to you. I want you to have OW, I've spoken to a lawyer and am filing for divorce, you will be served by next week" Then drop the f*ck*r like a bad habit, no contact, no nothing, no matter how much he begs to get back with you. You've got no kids so you can get a clean break and find someone who loves and really respects you. Link to post Share on other sites
Donewrong Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 You've got no kids so you can get a clean break and find someone who loves and really respects you. There are 3 kids involved..I thought I read that..but either way Rob is right...follow through...nc...business like contact with regards to the kids and no other contact. Even if he contacts you nad says hi, how are you..you don't respond. Period. Move on with your life. You don't deserve to live through that crap! It will tear you up and if you let it you'll only be a shell. You deserve better! Link to post Share on other sites
Author bc83 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Learned this morning that husband did sleep with other woman, after I'd told him that I would not date anyone else and didn't want him to, either. We talked at length about the fact that he did have sex with her; strangely enough it feels like there is some kind of calmness right now. I can't really figure it out. Maybe it's because I know he's done what he said he needed to do, and that it was awkward but esteem-boosting, and he hasn't said outright that he would see her again against my wishes. Maybe it seems calmer for me since some uncertainty is lessened. We will talk more tonight about our agreement, since I said that the terms now must be changed. Option 1: rewrite terms that we only see each other, we agree there will be no more dating others Option 2: we can't come to an agreement so I file for separation or more likely divorce Option 3: we together explore some of our same-sex and threesome yearnings, but only together, no going off and doing things on the side, and we rewrite the agreement to reflect this (back story is in another thread) I know you all will tell me he's just still stringing me on. All I can say to that is that I did tell him this morning that I am ready to file the papers if he doesn't choose me. Link to post Share on other sites
Mauschen Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Option 1: sounds good Option 2: filing for separation and divorce in most states cost the same. file for divorce. Option 3: Really??? This sounds like a TERRIBLE option in your current situation And, now that you know he's slept with another woman even though he knows it would bother you, why are you considering trying to work this out on anything but YOUR terms? Link to post Share on other sites
robf1971 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 that I did tell him Words are cheap and mean nothing. Stop telling him and just do it. Link to post Share on other sites
Donewrong Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 BC. How are you this morning? I hope you are ok? Keep up posted. Going through this is hard. We are here to support you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author bc83 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Thanks for asking, DW. You're so sweet! I don't know how I am, other than still confused and hopeful and mad and sad and frozen in place. I occasionally get glimmers of clarity about how important it is that I do the right thing for myself, and stop obsessing about him, but then the glimmer fades. But I'm actively working on recognizing my unhelpful thought patterns. I know what I need to do, and what feels right, I'm just terrified and locked up. Link to post Share on other sites
irishdaisy Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Bc83, hang in there-- I know the feelings you are going through must be exhausting and scary. Keep remembering that you deserve better than all this-- I hope he comes to his senses or you can find the strength to do what you need to do.... ID Link to post Share on other sites
Donewrong Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 BC, It is scary ..terrifying actually. You have to deal with so many emotions right now and they are all hitting you at once. From being scared, sadness, anger, jealous to feeling numb. Whatever comes..feel it but don't let it overcome you. Things get clearer with time and the hurt and pain does dull over time. Just think of things that make YOU happy and try and do at least one thing each day. Link to post Share on other sites
Donewrong Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I need to add something to this below. It was brought to my attention that it may seem like What_next came crawling back to me. That was not the case. It was a decision that took time to make. Also - The texting me. It was painful each time I got texts from him and it hurt like hell (and I used to say to myself..if he wants the OW then why does he not leave me alone) but I did infact contact him as well throughout it all. I didn't mean to make WN look like a weak individual for reconcilling. i was just giving insight on the feelings I was going through at that time. Now I feel very fortunate to have WN. If anyone took this the wrong way I am sorry - that was not my intent. If you want something made clearer..please ask and I will answer. I remember when my husband was with his OW he would be constantly texting me and it was horrible. It was worse when he lived at home and started dating her...I honestly thought life wasn't worth living. To see him get ready to go out, shaving & showering, then coming home smelling of her and then telling me details of the date. Being with me one night and spending the night together and going out with the GF the next night. To have him end a conversation with me because it was time to call his GF..oh heavens... I nearly didn't survive the last couple weeks he lived at home. I thought once he moved out it would be better because I wouldn't have to witness it anymore. It did get better but the contact didn't stop. I rememeber one weekend I was playing cards at a friends house - girls night and he was constantly texting me. One of the ladies said...WTH if he's decided to get into another relationship - why is he constantly bothering you. It was only a month after that that I finally said no more. Yeah I made mistakes but I didn't deserve to feel tortured constantly so I decided to do something different since what I was doing wasn't working. I decided to go on a dinner date. Only 1 day after my first dinner date my husband decided to leave the OW and reconcile with me. I don't know what triggered his decision - and I really don't care. Nor do I think you dating is the answer. Focus on you and the kids first and foremost. When you come to a place where you are happy then you can bring someone else into the picture. I think what you need to do is stop jumping every time he says jump. Set up strong ground rules and boundaries and stand by them. Tell him if he wants OW then he can't have you as well and you will move on with your life. To dull the pain..well personally, I drank lots of wine when my husband first moved out...I was only sleeping maybe 2-4 hrs sleep each night and I was only getting that much thanks to the wine. ..but that wasn't the answer. Work out, hang out with friends, family, anyone that supports you. Do things you love to do, start a new hobby. Spend time with the kids watching movies or doing their favorite crafts, riding bike, or playing hoops...anything to keep your body active and your mind busy. The more you do right not the less spare time your mind will have to torture yourself!! I am thinking of you and I hope you do something different today to make yourself happy and for one day not think about him or what he is doing. DW Link to post Share on other sites
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