Why All or Nothing?

[justsumguy71]

Need some advice on the mess I am in.

 

I am the MM and she is the "accidental" OW.

 

We met when we were both married. We became the best of friends but it was platonic at the start. She had problems with her marriage (not because of me - or at least that is what she said). I guess she found a shoulder to lean on with me. Maybe because of the stresses and lack of sexual outlet, we became FWB. After her divorce, she wanted me to divorce also and marry her. She started giving ultimatums, at first implied and then becoming more and more explicit. Long story short, I said I cannot.

 

I am fine with losing the B of the FWB, I think I am very much mature enough to put that behind me and I actually wanted her to do the same. And I say this without ulterior motives, she can introduce to me her new fiance if she has one in the future.

 

I tried to ask her to step back and remember the time we had before all of the complications when there was nothing sexual. But apparently, it is all or nothing for her. She cannot step back to that time.

 

I always knew that the FWB part would stop at some point but I did not foresee she would go on an all or nothing proposition. She said she would rather not see me again and refuses to talk to me.

 

Putting myself in her shoes, I think I understand 60% of her reasons but I would really like someone to elaborate more and tell me the 'obvious'.

 

Easily, she was my best friend in life and had I met her earlier would have easily married her on the first ultimatum. But she has moved on and is out of my life.

 

Please explain to me so that I myself can move on as well.

[OldOnTheInside]

She wanted you to leave your wife and have a full relationship with her.

 

Why?

 

Because that's what she wanted.

 

You two have a history, she can't get over it.

 

You're over-complicating things.

Edited June 23, 2011 by OldOnTheInside

[UntoldStory]

I'm not clear on what it is you don't understand.

 

She wants to be more than friends. As I have learned the hard way, you can't go back from that. (Or at least, I'm not able to.) She's decided it's all or nothing. So it sounds like you've lost a really good friend.

[MissBee]

She had to do all or nothing with you because if she tried to remain in that gray area of friends with feelings, then she would be hurting herself.

 

People often mean well when they try to be friends after the ending of a romantic relationship...but it generally turns into a mess. There has to be a separation if a friendship is going to eventually come about. But trying to "be friends" immediately is a disaster. I've been there and done that and now know that it has to be all or nothing. If I still have feelings for you, we're either together or we leave each other alone, being cordial every now and again or something but I won't fool myself into hanging out or talking a lot and pretty much having an emotional affair with you. As a relationship is really just a friendship with the addition of titles and sex.

 

This is one of those things where it has to be black or white/all or nothing because treading in the gray area is just going to end up being messy so she has to do what's best for HER and not for you, as you seem fine to just go back to normal...but she can't, so she has to do what she needs to do for herself.

[carrie999]

Need some advice on the mess I am in.

 

I am the MM and she is the "accidental" OW.

 

We met when we were both married. We became the best of friends but it was platonic at the start. She had problems with her marriage (not because of me - or at least that is what she said). I guess she found a shoulder to lean on with me. Maybe because of the stresses and lack of sexual outlet, we became FWB. After her divorce, she wanted me to divorce also and marry her. She started giving ultimatums, at first implied and then becoming more and more explicit. Long story short, I said I cannot.

 

I am fine with losing the B of the FWB, I think I am very much mature enough to put that behind me and I actually wanted her to do the same. And I say this without ulterior motives, she can introduce to me her new fiance if she has one in the future.

 

I tried to ask her to step back and remember the time we had before all of the complications when there was nothing sexual. But apparently, it is all or nothing for her. She cannot step back to that time.

 

I always knew that the FWB part would stop at some point but I did not foresee she would go on an all or nothing proposition. She said she would rather not see me again and refuses to talk to me.

 

Putting myself in her shoes, I think I understand 60% of her reasons but I would really like someone to elaborate more and tell me the 'obvious'.

 

Easily, she was my best friend in life and had I met her earlier would have easily married her on the first ultimatum. But she has moved on and is out of my life.

 

Please explain to me so that I myself can move on as well.

 

I'm sorry, but the bolded points make you sound extremely arrogant. The rest makes you sound clueless, particularly her being your "best friend in life..."

 

What's the deal with you and your wife? You love her so much that you won't divorce her, but you have no problem jumping in bed with your best friend? You don't expect your best friend to feel a far deeper attachment to her best friend with whom she has now made love? Huh???

 

How are you "very much mature enough" for anything? If you were both single, I'd still have the same reaction. This isn't an issue of not understanding women...from this post, it sounds like you're missing the point of both friendship and love. "FWB" applies to two consentual adults or horny teenagers who have no emotional ties and just want to get off and hang out. It NEVER applies to someone you'd describe as a "best friend."

[justsumguy71]

I'm sorry, but the bolded points make you sound extremely arrogant. The rest makes you sound clueless, particularly her being your "best friend in life..."

 

Uhmmm... calm down. I am not a swine at all. Though I do expect some flak as I am the MM in this equation.

 

The whole story is here. I just didn't want to re-write that whole thing.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t283751/

 

The point is, when we met, I was actually the one who was on the way to single-hood. I was already separated by a thousand miles away from bed and board with the wife. And she was the one who was very much married and living with the husband.

 

However, somethings happened along the way that made it necessary for me to change course.

 

In truth, in my mind the only thing I really want is to have another chance to explain to her why I have made the decisions I have made and for her not to be angry. However, she does not want to hear it. The last time we talked the only thing she said really was that she gave me all the chances to "be a man" and make everything right. She said she does not want to be hurt anymore.

 

As said in my original post, Why all or nothing? I am not at all clueless but I guess what I want is a proxy explanation coming from somewhere why...

 

having nothing, is better than having something if everything is not possible.

 

In the end, I just want to process it, understand clearly from her point of view, and finally move on.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Because having something reminds her constantly that she has nothing. That she is playing second fiddle and not as important as your reasons for staying. Is that what you want from her? To accept less than she desires? To agree herself that this is all that she deserves? She consent want to settle, she's taken the steps to get out of a R in which she was settling and you're asking her to put herself back into that position. Doesn't sound like something a friend would ask to me. If you can't be all that she needs then she has made the best decision to cut contact and allow herself the freedom to persue that. If she isn't looking out for her best interest then who will?

[NoIDidn't]

Because having something reminds her constantly that she has nothing. That she is playing second fiddle and not as important as your reasons for staying. Is that what you want from her? To accept less than she desires? To agree herself that this is all that she deserves? She consent want to settle, she's taken the steps to get out of a R in which she was settling and you're asking her to put herself back into that position. Doesn't sound like something a friend would ask to me. If you can't be all that she needs then she has made the best decision to cut contact and allow herself the freedom to persue that. If she isn't looking out for her best interest then who will?

 

I was going to say something like this.

 

She left her marriage and wants something to show for it: the man she left for.

 

No one leaves a marriage for a "Friend With Benefits". She's probably better off not talking to the person that treats her like this anyway.

 

All or nothing is a demand for respect. Not getting it shows there is no respect there.

 

(An aside, this OP posts just like a guy I once dated. He often tried to paint himself as innocent and misunderstood and really just came off as clueless and arrogant.)

[justsumguy71]

@NoIDidn't

 

I am sorry that you had to date guys who were playing games. But I am not playing any game here at all. I wrote in my usual way. It was not my intention to sound arrogant. I only seek to understand.

 

@IfWishesWereHorses

 

Thanks. You have helped me immensely. I have cut and paste your response, and will be reading it to myself again and again for sometime to come. Again, Thanks.

[NoIDidn't]

@NoIDidn't

 

I am sorry that you had to date guys who were playing games. But I am not playing any game here at all. I wrote in my usual way. It was not my intention to sound arrogant. I only seek to understand.

 

@IfWishesWereHorses

 

Thanks. You have helped me immensely. I have cut and paste your response, and will be reading it to myself again and again for sometime to come. Again, Thanks.

 

LOL. I am sorry you needed someone to point out why she wanted all or nothing from you. It may not have been your intention to come across as clueless and arrogant, but that's what happened. It sounds like you over-promised and under-delivered when it came to this OW and she put her foot down.

 

She's been referred to as "accidental" and made out to be demanding something from you that you didn't seem to see coming. What did you think was going to happen after she divorced? She was finally going to be free for a full relationship instead of just the FWB setup that you thought was all she wanted.

 

You say some "things" happened that made you have to change course. Was that you initially telling her you could divorce and then turning around and saying that you couldn't? She said she was tired of being hurt, and I can only guess that means she felt you and the relationship (note NOT a FWB thing in her mind) with you was hurting her.

 

I read the link you provided and its even worse than this post as far as the way you come across in it. Maybe that's why not many commented on it, besides the fact that it was really long.

 

Look, I think you have horribly disrespected this woman. You assumed she was using you, all while using her and keeping things from her. I think she should have been told that you went back home to your W. It might have kept her from making the mistake of divorcing with the hopes of being with you - as you alluded to. The whole "things in this situations" type lies, aka empty promises that many OW cling to.

 

I'm glad that IWWH post helped you, I just hope you stop referring to a woman that obviously loved you enough to want to marry you as a "FWB" and refusing to call her your lover when that's exactly what she thought she was.

 

What are you going to do with that copy and paste? Attempt to contact her and tell her that you understand now what she wants even though you aren't going to give it to her?

[justsumguy71]

What are you going to do with that copy and paste? Attempt to contact her and tell her that you understand now what she wants even though you aren't going to give it to her?

 

Thanks for your take on the matter. It is also helping me a lot.

 

The cut and paste thing is for me. No, I have no intention to contact her anymore. I respect her space.

[Heart On]

Why not all or nothing?

 

After what I have read here and in your other post,you are damn lucky she

didn't just go to your wife and try to sabotage your marriage by outting you to her and making your re-entry hell if at all possible.

 

I assume you omitted this affair to your wife,like you omitted your reconciliation to your ow?

 

How does that not make you a "swine"?

 

I read nothing about you being anything resembling a friend to her.

She divorced under false pretenses that you gave her about your relationship.

She loved you enough to want to make it real,she left her marriage for YOU and you turned on your heel and ran home to your presumably lied to wife and are using your autistic daughter as an excuse to justify your bait and switch.

 

I have been in her shoes almost exactly.

 

You get to go home as if she never existed and

she get's to pick up the pieces of the mess you made

of her life.

 

How could you expect to just "go back" to being friends after all she has been thru,including losing her job,husband,home...etc?

 

She did the smart thing by cuttng ALL contact with you so you couldn't string her along for even longer for the anything you wanted.

 

Just because you can easily compartmentalize in your marriage and in your affair,doesn't mean she can.

 

My xMM was no different in that he wanted "it all" and was not willing to sacrifice anything.

 

Meanwhile,I had sacrificed everything.By the end,I had to face that he never loved me,never even cared about me and my only recourse besides destroying his life as he had mine,was to walk away and live out the consequences of my trust beying betrayed by him while he went on at my expense.

 

It's a real joy knowing he and his family are living life as though I never existed while here I sit,having been honest with my xH and divorcing over a man who didn't have the decency to be UPFRONT with his wife or I.

 

Do yourself a favor,at least appreciate the fact that she didn't get even with you and force you to answer for yourself in your marriage as you SHOULD have had to do before you got back with your wife.

 

Apologize to her for leading her onto nowhere and minimizing her worth in your life.

 

And OWN that you are not a decent man.

[bentnotbroken]

So the short version of your story, is you got dumped, and you can't understand why someone would not want to waste years waiting on a person who by their own admission isn't going to do more than they are right now...nothing. Sounds like you should be proud of yourself for picking a woman smart enough to know when to walk away from a losing situation.

[woinlove]

Some posters seem to be assuming this woman really loves justsumguy and thinks he's "the one". Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. Sounds like she had a 2 year affair with him during her M, while not professing love to justsumguy or saying she wanted to spend her future with him. She says she didn't end her M for him. Maybe she was not being honest or maybe she was.

 

In any case, it seems that now she has decided she wants all or nothing. That appears to be quite a shift from the previous years she spent with justsumguy. Maybe she doesn't like being single or maybe she has realized that justsumguy is the person she wants to spend her life with. There's not enough info to tell and maybe she doesn't even know herself.

 

I'm sure this woman has been filling important needs for you, justsumguy, and you will miss that. However, it doesn't sound like you were really best friends. You weren't upfront with her and best friends would not have NSA sex for 2 years unless sex really means little to both of them. Also, either she wasn't upfront about her feelings with you or she is in a state of change - which isn't the best position to make life-changing decisions from.

 

I think you are doing the right thing to respect her wishes and leave her alone. If you do really want to recommit to your W and family, this is a necessary step for you too.

[BB07]

I read your other post explaining the situation and sounds like you both were using each other to fill holes in yourself and your lives. You both danced around the feelings until they had to bust out. From what you describe on your end of it, I would guess you left your ow very insecure and I think she realized that she could not handle being on the side anymore. (Bravo for her). I think you wanting to keep her as a friend is selfish and self serving because lovers can not be friends until or if healing takes place and imo she should NEVER attempt being friends with you again as it would be a mistake. You choose your marriage which should make you off limits for anything and you hurt her. She picked you but you rejected her.

 

I hope she has healed and found contentment in being alone or found someone else who gives her the WHOLE kit and caboodle.

[justsumguy71]

To all those who have responded, thank you. I especially re-read the ones that are particularly provocative. In my mind, I imagine that these words are the exact same things that HER friend, sister, mother or father would say. There is really no point in trying to defend in any degree what has happened or how things went. Words like deception and lies will come out. I acknowledge that. I should have been forthcoming much much earlier in my decisions.

 

@Hear On

 

I sincerely thank you for your point of view. Those may have been the exact same feelings she may have had but only never voiced. I am truly sorry for the things you have gone through.

 

However, some details are different, for 1, she changed jobs, got an upgrade even (level and salary). she did not lose it. But the most important difference is the fact that in the 2 years that me and HER spent together was nothing cozy. Yes there was sex but there was never any reassurance. I was the one who publicly acknowledged that I am in divorce proceedings. Everybody knew that. She on the other hand was the one who was OPENLY trying to make amends with her husband. It was she who was insisting on the clandestine nature of the relationship. During THAT time, I was the one constantly holding onto the phone in the hope that she could call to tell me she had spare time to spend with me. I was the "OTHER" person, the marriage outsider during that time.

 

I am no einstein, but I can sense if I am filling the shoes of a rebound guy. Ofcourse, I did not say that anywhere until now, it's irrelevant. I valued her alot before all these complications set in, because she was different in my eyes. I knew the dangers I was facing, I knew I was taking a risk but I took them anyway. If I protected myself by putting some sort of firewall, I think I was justified at that time. And no, I never encouraged her to divorce. I told her that if she comes to a decision, it is her own.

 

After all is said and done, neither of us (me and HER) can really claim having been wronged or misled. We allowed ourselves to get into this whole mess.

 

Sorry for the rant, memories and feelings just come rushing back.

 

But let me again thank you. She may or may not have had me in mind when she made all the decisions she made, though she never said so, and I think I will never find out. But I do take the blame. I should have been forthcoming much much earlier in my decisions.

 

And just as I hope that my Ex OW will find what she is looking for, so do I wish that one day, you will find someone worthy of you.

Edited June 23, 2011 by justsumguy71

[SoleMate]

She's told you, she's hurt and she's angry.

 

True friendship has to be completely voluntary on BOTH sides. She doesn't want to be friends with you. You haven't been a good friend to her. She has good reasons not to see you...but even if she didn't, it's still her choice.

 

Please explain to me [why she has moved on and out of my life] so that I myself can move on as well.

I don't recommend that you require understanding before you choose to move on. True understanding may not be possible. And even getting explanations will often result in people saying they don't understand, because they don't really want to understand, despite what they say....they want to change the person's mind through "logic".

 

The best thing to try to understand now if how you are going to be a better husband and father. BTW, I hope you are being honest with your wife about the motives and purpose of your marital "reconciliation".

[OldOnTheInside]

I think you should accept that not all things are reversible and understand how much pain your attitude is causing her.

Very true. It is something that many (but not necessarily OP) are unwilling to accept. Many times, once you've crossed a line, you can't just hop back over and expect everything to be hugs and h*ndjobs.

 

Can't take back the past.

Edited June 23, 2011 by OldOnTheInside

[MissBee]

Very true. It is something that many (but not necessarily OP) are unwilling to accept. Many times, once you've crossed a line, you can't just hop back over and expect everything to be hugs and h*ndjobs.

 

Can't take back the past.

 

LMAO @ " hugs and h*ndjobs". I may need to start using that line, but only around my dearest and lewdest friends

 

But yes...indeed. I agree 100%.

[2sunny]

from your other thread - it appears that you mislead her by leaving out your truth. you omitted what your intentions were and left your OW to make assumptions. she assumed you loved her enough to be with her. when you stayed with your W - YOUR actions told her what your words would not say. she now knows she is short changed IF she stays with you - IF you love her like you say you do - you will NOT communicate again. that way she can heal and move FORWARD.

 

you allowed her to know you are staying with your W - so leave her alone to find a worthy man. the way you participated was very sneaky and harmful to her. you didn't tell her your truth - then was surprised when she felt hurt. she deserved to know ahead of time as it was going to affect her. you didn't tell and yes, she was mad when she found out you intended to go back to your W and didn't discuss such a major decision with the woman you claimed to "love"

 

in the future - STATE (with words AND actions) exactly what YOUR intentions are... YOU leaving out words - has caused harm to many... lying by omission is always harmful. you figured she couldn't be mad since you never directly lied about going home... but you never really told YOUR truth either... you just made a huge decision that affected many - and never talked to her about it. this is terribly disrespectful and disregarding all the way around. shows you as a very selfish individual who doesn't consider HOW you and YOUR decisions affect others. THEY DO AFFECT OTHERS! start letting people in on what you are trying to decide! let them in on what your TRUE feelings are... especially your WIFE - who you say you intend to re-connect with.

 

by the way - the best way to re-connect with your W is to let go COMPLETELY of your distraction (your OW). so stop contacting her. divided energy can never make 100% effort... and your wife deserves your 100% time, energy and attention IF you INTEND to be home and make this work. let go of the OW. she can heal faster that way too.

 

 

do work on communicating properly. express how you feel - what your intentions are - then DO exactly what you stated. be a man of your word! when you are processing thoughts on what you want to decide - express them out loud with your WIFE before making any firm decision. including her in your life and decisions and changes will help you two BEGIN to get reconnected.

[chalkfarm]

You don't "love" her. You only "value" her.

 

Yes, you said you loved her earlier in the month but you would never tell her so that she could move on. Yuck. Too much rationalizing.

 

Try to "respect" her for once and eave her alone. It looks like you just want the last word. Not good.

[ladydesigner]

I don't understand what it is that you don't understand (you men compartmentalize things so much that you lose sight of the wood for the trees!). I'll spell it out: she has fallen in love. Have you ever fallen in love? I mean really, deeply in love? I'm sure you have. Do you remember how it feels? Do you remember how you totally can't stand the idea of being "just friends" with the one you love?

 

Also, don't forget she is a woman, and her pride and femininity have been hurt by your nonchalant "I can give up the B of the FWB" attitude. I'm sure she feels used and discarded, even if you value her as a friend and a person, her femininity is taking a beating by your relaxed attitude and the cooler and friendlier you become, the more rejected she feels because she is the only one feeling passion. Her passion is no longer being reciprocated. And if that's hard for a man to stomach, try to imagine how it must feel to a woman. For better or worse, our self-image is very much related to how desired we feel, as opposed to how valued we feel as human beings, etc. That is the bottom line truth.

 

I think you should accept that not all things are reversible and understand how much pain your attitude is causing her. Her ultimatum is an effort on her part to maintain some pride and dignity. I feel for her.

 

This is a FAN-TAS-TIC post. I would say it is THIS. This post is exactly how I felt when my XOM ended and wanted to remain friends. I tried for a year, but it was pure torture for me. I went NC ever since. It was the best thing I have ever done for myself.

[Heart On]

I sincerely thank you for your point of view. Those may have been the exact same feelings she may have had but only never voiced.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

 

I am truly sorry for the things you have gone through.

 

Hmm....well,they aren't your fault.But thanks.

 

However, some details are different, for 1, she changed jobs, got an upgrade even (level and salary). she did not lose it. But the most important difference is the fact that in the 2 years that me and HER spent together was nothing cozy. Yes there was sex but there was never any reassurance. I was the one who publicly acknowledged that I am in divorce proceedings. Everybody knew that. She on the other hand was the one who was OPENLY trying to make amends with her husband. It was she who was insisting on the clandestine nature of the relationship. During THAT time, I was the one constantly holding onto the phone in the hope that she could call to tell me she had spare time to spend with me. I was the "OTHER" person, the marriage outsider during that time.

 

I hear you.

 

I am no einstein, but I can sense if I am filling the shoes of a rebound guy. Ofcourse, I did not say that anywhere until now, it's irrelevant. I valued her alot before all these complications set in, because she was different in my eyes. I knew the dangers I was facing, I knew I was taking a risk but I took them anyway. If I protected myself by putting some sort of firewall, I think I was justified at that time. And no, I never encouraged her to divorce. I told her that if she comes to a decision, it is her own.

 

And you don't think her feelings for you influenced that choice?

 

 

After all is said and done, neither of us (me and HER) can really claim having been wronged or misled. We allowed ourselves to get into this whole mess.

 

Maybe so,but her disappearance since your "revelation" seems to point in a different direction from where I sit.

 

Sorry for the rant, memories and feelings just come rushing back.

 

I should be the one saying that!

 

But let me again thank you. She may or may not have had me in mind when she made all the decisions she made, though she never said so, and I think I will never find out. But I do take the blame. I should have been forthcoming much much earlier in my decisions.

 

You are welcome.And thank YOU for admitting to that.I do understand how hard these situations can become and I didn't mean to sound so accusitory.I do tend to project my own situation onto others as I never got the chance to hold my xMM or xH accountable for the pain they caused me.

 

 

 

 

you will find someone worthy of you.

 

I already have and I couldn't feel more safe or happy with him.The thing is, I wasted alot of time and effort on a MM who was so Narcissistic he couldn't begin to imagine that he wasn't entitled to having his cake and eating it too until I abandoned him as he had me.

 

 

Harshly,humilatingly and devastatingly, I learned that when one man is pushing your out of your marriage with disrespect and abuse,you shouldn't listen to another man who is pulling you out with lies and manipulations when he's got nothing to offer but more lies and manipulations.

 

Sometimes,love is just a four letter word men use to get what they really want.Sex.

 

When a woman is willing to leave her marriage for 'you',and because 'you' give her false hope and empty promises it should be obvious why she couldn't go back to "just being friends"!~

 

Love....doesn't work that way.And I truly doubt she ever thought of you,the way you thought of her....as "just" a FWB.

 

I have to wonder,would you have been "welcomed" home had you been honest with your wife about your "FWB"?

 

Probably not anymore than you are welcome to be friends with your fOW.

 

I always knew my xMM could so easily omit the truth,when he saw how much I suffered for being honest in my own marriage.

 

His attitude was..."Why would I be honest? Look where that got you.

 

Thrown under the bus,answering for all by myself.

 

I do recall HIM being a party to it all...but he NEVER suffered any consequences.He was ABOVE paying...but not above playing.

Edited June 24, 2011 by Heart On

[DCMNW]

I don't understand what it is that you don't understand (you men compartmentalize things so much that you lose sight of the wood for the trees!). I'll spell it out: she has fallen in love. Have you ever fallen in love? I mean really, deeply in love? I'm sure you have. Do you remember how it feels? Do you remember how you totally can't stand the idea of being "just friends" with the one you love?

 

Also, don't forget she is a woman, and her pride and femininity have been hurt by your nonchalant "I can give up the B of the FWB" attitude. I'm sure she feels used and discarded, even if you value her as a friend and a person, her femininity is taking a beating by your relaxed attitude and the cooler and friendlier you become, the more rejected she feels because she is the only one feeling passion. Her passion is no longer being reciprocated. And if that's hard for a man to stomach, try to imagine how it must feel to a woman. For better or worse, our self-image is very much related to how desired we feel, as opposed to how valued we feel as human beings, etc. That is the bottom line truth.

 

I think you should accept that not all things are reversible and understand how much pain your attitude is causing her. Her ultimatum is an effort on her part to maintain some pride and dignity. I feel for her.

 

I totally agree with this post. I can say this because I am currently living it and it is the worst feeling ever. My xMM ended the A but insisted he wanted to stay "friends". I was hesitant at first and he said the same thing to me, "why does it have to be all or nothing?" I eventually gave in to him and we are now "friends". He calls frequently and it is just so painful as I am so crazy about him, totally in love with him, and the relationship is now only one sided. He doesn't reciprocrate those feelings anymore and I end up constantly feeling rejected. I admire your OW for putting her foot down and not putting up with this. I'm still working on gaining the strength to end this so I can try and move on...

[Tenacity]

"My best friend and I were never really lovers."

 

This is from your first post. What were you, then? Didn't you make love to her? Didn't you profess to love her? But you weren't 'lovers'?

 

It sounds like what you are saying here is that you never considered the relationship to be a real one.

 

"... but in this lifetime and at the stage of my life, I just want to keep the people dear to me close."

 

This also from your first post. This really says it all, doesn't it? And clearly, your friend figured this out. YOU chose to keep the people who really mattered in your life, and she obviously was not one of them.

 

Life is choices, Guy, and you made yours.

 

I had to keep reminding myself as I read your posts that you are not my ex-MM because you sound EXACTLY like him. He was also constantly bewildered as to why I could not be whatever HE needed at whatever point of time he needed it. Over 4 years it was phases of backing out of our relationship and new limitations put on it, up until the very last one which was that we could ONLY be friends with no affection whatsoever. And he was honestly confused as to why I had a problem with that! And I even tried it, for over a year, before finally cutting it off. Kudos to this woman for moving on with her life and not wasting as much time as I did!

 

I think it is extremely arrogant of a man to think that a woman in the position of your friend would just have no problem playing exactly whatever role that YOU need her to play in your life. Especially after she has been deceived into thinking that you meant more to her than just someone who you slept with but never considered a "lover". You can bet that she did not feel about you in that way. She was REJECTED by you, and even more humiliating is that you expect her to just fit into your life in the little niche that works for YOU because she's not important enough to be your lover or your wife.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh; I don't mean it that way. But I am just continually amazed at the narcissistic, compartmentalized way that some people can view a relationship with another person.

 

In reading your first post I noticed that several times you asked that people not 'judge' you and stated that you are not a 'swine'. In my experience, people tend to make such statements when deep down on some level, they know this is what they really deserve.

 

I am sure you are not a horrible person. My ex-MM is a good person, but he did not treat me well. You have made your choices, and they hurt your friend terribly. YOU hurt her terribly. Accept it and move on... now your focus should be on your wife and daughter, NOT in wondering why this friend did not want to stick around for Round Two of pain and rejection.