Is Yo-yo'ing back and forth normal?

[SteveS]

Liz and I have been best friends since we university - 10 years of effortless platonic friendship: talking every day, supporting each other through our individual relationship dramas, family deaths and everything else life threw at us. Nothing even changed when she got married 5 years ago, though I could see she wasn't happy, especially after she had a baby / stopped working as her husband became incredibly controlling - financially and emotionally, and even physically abusive on two occasions.

 

Last year I whilst her husband was away on business I went to stay over to keep her company - nothing unusual as its something I've done many times before. It was the night she told me about the physical incidents and she just ended up crying. Perhaps it was the alcohol, or something else but we ended up kissing, and having sex.

 

The funny thing is it felt so natural and normal. And there as no guilt. We started a full blown affair. Oh it was lovely - she would talk of leaving her husband and the wonderful life we'd have together. I left my girlfriend immediately and became the OM.

 

After 6 months she started to get cold and distant. Said she was confused and needed space. Her husband was being nice to her, suddenly very romantic and generous with gifts. Perhaps her noticed her indifference. Either way we had a break. I think I missed the friendship more than the affair.

 

A month later she came back. The longest month of my life. She said she missed our friendship. I said we should just be friends until she leaves her husband and if she doesn't we'll remain friends and forget what we did.

 

That didn't last long. We were back to having a physical affair within days. And so a pattern formed. We'd spend a few months having such a good time with me, talking of our future together. Her husband would do something nice and she'd get guilty and withdraw and go on a break. i'd always leave her alone when she did. No contact at all. And she'd always come back.

 

She did it again last week - this time she was angry at me for ruining her life. I told her she always comes back. I never chase her. She blamed me for ingnoring her guilt and taking her back. Risking her family and her daughters life. I told her I was happy to be friends. She said she hated me. We've never argued this badly. And now she's vanished. She said she's going permanently from my life. I don't believe she will as she always comes back.

 

But I'm angry that she's treating me this way as if a lifetime of friendship and love don't matter anymore. That not only the affair but our friendship is disposable. I don't understand why I'm being blamed for everything when all I've done is be there for her when she's wanted me.

 

A part of me want to tell her husband everything, a part of me wants to walk away and never let her back...and a part of me (crazy I know) wants to wait for her to come back as I suspect she will.

 

So...is this normal - this yo-yo'ing? Do people usually go through this cycle of guilt and infidelity and how does it end? Can this affair be ended can the friendship be saved? Any suggestions to what I should do?

 

Steve

Edited June 25, 2011 by SteveS

[BB07]

Liz and I have been best friends since we university - 10 years of effortless platonic friendship: talking every day, supporting each other through our individual relationship dramas, family deaths and everything else life threw at us. Nothing even changed when she got married 5 years ago, though I could see she wasn't happy, especially after she had a baby / stopped working as her husband became incredibly controlling - financially and emotionally, and even physically abusive on two occasions.

 

Last year I whilst her husband was away on business I went to stay over to keep her company - nothing unusual as its something I've done many times before. It was the night she told me about the physical incidents and she just ended up crying. Perhaps it was the alcohol, or something else but we ended up kissing, and having sex.

 

The funny thing is it felt so natural and normal. And there as no guilt. We started a full blown affair. Oh it was lovely - she would talk of leaving her husband and the wonderful life we'd have together. I left my girlfriend immediately and became the OM.

 

After 6 months she started to get cold and distant. Said she was confused and needed space. Her husband was being nice to her, suddenly very romantic and generous with gifts. Perhaps her noticed her indifference. Either way we had a break. I think I missed the friendship more than the affair.

 

A month later she came back. The longest month of my life. She said she missed our friendship. I said we should just be friends until she leaves her husband and if she doesn't we'll remain friends and forget what we did.

 

That didn't last long. We were back to having a physical affair within days. And so a pattern formed. We'd spend a few months having such a good time with me, talking of our future together. Her husband would do something nice and she'd get guilty and withdraw and go on a break. i'd always leave her alone when she did. No contact at all. And she'd always come back.

 

She did it again last week - this time she was angry at me for ruining her life. I told her she always comes back. I never chase her. She blamed me for ingnoring her guilt and taking her back. Risking her family and her daughters life. I told her I was happy to be friends. She said she hated me. We've never argued this badly. And now she's vanished. She said she's going permanently from my life. I don't believe she will as she always comes back.

 

But I'm angry that she's treating me this way as if a lifetime of friendship and love don't matter anymore. That not only the affair but our friendship is disposable. I don't understand why I'm being blamed for everything when all I've done is be there for her when she's wanted me.

 

A part of me want to tell her husband everything, a part of me wants to walk away and never let her back...and a part of me (crazy I know) wants to wait for her to come back as I suspect she will.

 

So...is this normal - this yo-yo'ing? Do people usually go through this cycle of guilt and infidelity and how does it end? Can this affair be ended can the friendship be saved? Any suggestions to what I should do?

 

Steve

 

Welcome to LS Steve,

 

This woman is treating you badly...........BUT you are the one who is allowing it and sorry to be harsh but you are being a doormat. You need to stand up for yourself and get off the roller-coaster. Your friendship with her can not go back to the way it was, in fact your friendship is over. The best thing for you is to realize that you can't be lovers or friends with this woman as long as she is still married and you didn't say anything has ever been mentioned about her leaving. Are you just going to keep on standing by and allowing her to keep going back and forth hoping that she'll do something different? It's slim odds that it will work out your favor.

 

As for telling her husband, it sounds like the only reason you are considering that is to try to force her to make a change. Don't you want her to pick you as a choice instead of as a default? If you take that course then she wouldn't be making a decision without duress. Also........that line of thinking seems to be dangerous if in fact her husband is abusive.

 

You need to take a long, hard look at why you've allowed yourself to become this woman's dumping ground and why you aren't able to have boundaries with her. Please don't fool yourself into believing that it's only because you love her. Healthy, real love does not mean that we allow someone to use us nor should we be engaging as a 3rd party in someone's relationship. It's just not the way it was meant to be.

[SteveS]

@BB07, Yes I suspect this uncharacteristic desire to ruin her life by telling her husband everything is born out of my being treated so badly. The reality is I have no wish to hurt her, complicate her life or force her hand.

 

@Elsa, I suspect I might have got on the emotional rollercoaster with her. Every other time she's felt guilty I've let her go...the first time I actually insisted she did. But after this frequent yo-yoing I don't believe she means it when she says she'll leave, and am frustrated by her insults - the problem doing this with your best friend is she knows just which buttons to press. I told her that. I did stand up for myself and it just made the arguments worse.

 

I really do feel like I am being used - emotionally and physically when I suits her and expected to vanish when she's feeling guilty. As for her leaving her husband she always uses her daughter as an excuse...not having kids myself I don't know how valid this is.

 

But yes I need to take control but I really don't know what I want: I always feel compelled to stay - not just because she has been my best friend for 10 years, but emotionally and physically its magical and better than anything else I've experienced. Saying that it almost feels as if a weight has been lifted from my shoulders and I hope she doesn't come back.

 

God I sound insane!

[East7]

She did it again last week - this time she was angry at me for ruining her life. I told her she always comes back. I never chase her. She blamed me for ingnoring her guilt and taking her back. Risking her family and her daughters life. I told her I was happy to be friends. She said she hated me. We've never argued this badly. And now she's vanished. She said she's going permanently from my life. I don't believe she will as she always comes back.

 

That's exactly what my xMW told me after ending the A. That I was ruining her life (it was ALL about her) - Please....Did you force her ? No !

This is her inner conflict speaking, she is addicted to you but she doesn't want to leave her current life. Don't take it personal, because it is her talking to herself.

You ruined her life ? What about your life ? You left your GF for her...

Too bad you left a loving girlfriend for a depressed, bored married woman. You lost the moon chasing the stars my friend. When you will realize this it will be bitter and too late to come back.

 

But I'm angry that she's treating me this way as if a lifetime of friendship and love don't matter anymore. That not only the affair but our friendship is disposable. I don't understand why I'm being blamed for everything when all I've done is be there for her when she's wanted me.

Because you were her shrink/confident not the man she wanted to start a relationship with. Yes she wants you....as a lover.

 

A part of me want to tell her husband everything, a part of me wants to walk away and never let her back...and a part of me (crazy I know) wants to wait for her to come back as I suspect she will.

Telling her husband ? What will you win? At best her hating you, at worse a angry dangerous husband. She won't run to you after you telling him. And oh waiting is also a bad option. If she wanted out she would have started, at least, considering moving. But she hasn't promised you anything, so why waiting ?

 

So...is this normal - this yo-yo'ing? Do people usually go through this cycle of guilt and infidelity and how does it end? Can this affair be ended can the friendship be saved? Any suggestions to what I should do?

 

Steve

Yes it is normal, been there...Here is the pattern :

 

- She will come back each time she gets bored with hubby.

- You will have good sex and go crazy for each-other.

- She will feel guilty right after it and will be a selfish b1tch with you (you ruined my life and blah blah)

- Her H will feel her distant and will shower her with attentions.

- She will get bored of him again.

- She will come back wanting your attention and the cycle restarts.

 

It can go on for months, even years..

 

You need to take a long, hard look at why you've allowed yourself to become this woman's dumping ground and why you aren't able to have boundaries with her. Please don't fool yourself into believing that it's only because you love her. Healthy, real love does not mean that we allow someone to use us nor should we be engaging as a 3rd party in someone's relationship. It's just not the way it was meant to be.

 

Agree ! A woman who REALLY loves you won't stay with her H. Real love is not coming back and forth each time she feels empty. Real love is wanting to have YOU in her life. You made a choice to hurt your GF and leave her for the sake of love for the MW, she isn't ready to do a half of what you did. Look at her actions, she isn't moving or planning to move, so it is plain waste of time !

 

Also forget about the frendship. Your friendship is over forever, you can't go back. She is a weak person, she can't find the way out of an abusive H and the affair was her only escape. She won't divorce until she heals and fixes herself. You can't save or heal her.

 

My advice is to run away from her, don't contact her ever ! She will mislead you and cause you pain over and over again. You need to tell her that you leave her where she wants to be, staying with her H and each of you pursues their lives.

[BB07]

Great post East!

 

Steve...........East has lived what you are living, so he is the person who can best advise you.

[East7]

Great post East!.

 

Thanks BB hugs to you <3 and Have a happy weekend.

 

 

Steve, it doesn't matter if u know her since 10 years or 10 months, the patterns r the same. She will be adorable and loving when she will need u back and a heartless b*tch when she will feel better with hubby and have his attention. This is smth that kept me on the loop for months ! Me wondering why the heck is she so inconsistent. I would setback each time she would come all sweet and loving to me and get slaps in the face (not literally) each time she was done with me. I wasn't realizing I was her punching ball to kick each time she was frustrated with herself and I spent my time wondering why is she telling me she loves me and then being a b*tch with me. I was sad like hell !!!

 

Please run my friend! She will hurt you. Yes she might be the most amazing high fuzzy feelings, greater sex partner lover and friend, yet your worst enemy ! Why settle for crumbs, why being her 2nd option, her second-class relationship, her little dirty secret, her shoulder when she feels empty, her spoiled-child toy. Man don't let her humiliate you. I am so angry for u...

She is insecure and have low self esteem, unless she would never have cheated.

 

And oh the last thing, I hope this won't hurt you : she had friend-zoned you 10 years ago. Why didn't she dated and married u in first place ?

[SteveS]

Thanks East, that was insightful....brutal but insightful. Its funny I remember at the start of the affair how happy, and grateful I was - to be in a relationship with my best friend having the best sex of my life, an amazing future together. Seems like a distant memory now.....and you're all right - the friendship is broken now. Even if she did leave her husband we suddenly have so much baggage. Suppose its my fault for investing so much in a married woman who obviously will never leave her husband.

 

Perhaps she does only want me as a lover to distract her from her reality...something exciting and fun. We had a break over xmas last year and she was in Paris with her family staying with friends. When she returned she messaged me to say she wanted to talk and admitted she developed a "crush" on her friend's brother who was very flirtatious. Nothing happened but she couldn't say for sure how she would have responded if he had tried anything. She told me that and then we ended up having sex and restarting our affair for 6 weeks in which she told me she loved me and only me.

 

God when she says those words I forget everything else but perhaps Im not as special as I think I am....

[SteveS]

Inconsistency...great word. Sums everything up. And Insanity too

 

@East - we never got together as we were always in other relationships. I was in a pretty serious one when we met, and then she was, and then I was, and then she got married. Regardless of what I'm currently doing the thought of cheating / infidelity isnt something I like / approve of. Hence why I broke up with my girlfriend straight away. What you went through sounds like hell...have you run? How does it feel afterwards? Do you ever think about going back?

[Confused4Now]

That's exactly what my xMW told me after ending the A. That I was ruining her life (it was ALL about her) - Please....Did you force her ? No !

This is her inner conflict speaking, she is addicted to you but she doesn't want to leave her current life. Don't take it personal, because it is her talking to herself.

You ruined her life ? What about your life ? You left your GF for her...

Too bad you left a loving girlfriend for a depressed, bored married woman. You lost the moon chasing the stars my friend. When you will realize this it will be bitter and too late to come back.

 

Because you were her shrink/confident not the man she wanted to start a relationship with. Yes she wants you....as a lover.

 

Telling her husband ? What will you win? At best her hating you, at worse a angry dangerous husband. She won't run to you after you telling him. And oh waiting is also a bad option. If she wanted out she would have started, at least, considering moving. But she hasn't promised you anything, so why waiting ?

 

Yes it is normal, been there...Here is the pattern :

 

- She will come back each time she gets bored with hubby.

- You will have good sex and go crazy for each-other.

- She will feel guilty right after it and will be a selfish b1tch with you (you ruined my life and blah blah)

- Her H will feel her distant and will shower her with attentions.

- She will get bored of him again.

- She will come back wanting your attention and the cycle restarts.

 

It can go on for months, even years..

 

 

 

Agree ! A woman who REALLY loves you won't stay with her H. Real love is not coming back and forth each time she feels empty. Real love is wanting to have YOU in her life. You made a choice to hurt your GF and leave her for the sake of love for the MW, she isn't ready to do a half of what you did. Look at her actions, she isn't moving or planning to move, so it is plain waste of time !

 

Also forget about the frendship. Your friendship is over forever, you can't go back. She is a weak person, she can't find the way out of an abusive H and the affair was her only escape. She won't divorce until she heals and fixes herself. You can't save or heal her.

 

My advice is to run away from her, don't contact her ever ! She will mislead you and cause you pain over and over again. You need to tell her that you leave her where she wants to be, staying with her H and each of you pursues their lives.

I lived my A for 5 years thinking my situation was unique and it really wasn't. Please listen to these words cause I will mimic the same words EAST has.

 

Couple of things....

 

Actions speak louder than words.

People aren't usually where they don't want to be.

She doesn't respect you...but then again you aren't respecting yourself.

Boundaries Boundaries Boundaries.

If there is any kinda of abuse in the marriage...then it's going to be twice as hard for her to get out.

 

Good luck....

[East7]

What you went through sounds like hell...have you run? How does it feel afterwards? Do you ever think about going back?

 

Well, it has been very hard. I have grieved like hell. I won't lie, I still think of her every single day but I don't let me lingering feelings set me back to an unhealthy and hurtful interaction with her. - have been dumped or hurt in other relationships but nothing compares to the pain I experienced after the affair.

 

At some point I thought I was over her but I was simply over the last dimmest ray of hope I still had about her wanting to be with me. I have gone from the point I thought she was the love of my life to the point I thought she was the worst cruel b*tch I ever met...the deception is huge. People who are screwed up are cruel with the ones who love them the most. She was nasty with her H and with me as well. Until she fixes herself she can't build a healthy loving relationship. I realized I couldn't fix her, and I think u can't fix ur MW either.

[Emme]

As soon as I saw the word University I knew this post was going to be hard to read. I am sorry you are going through a rough time Steve but it is for the best. Your relations is different from mine as you've just began the sexual relationship. I can tell you that the friendship is what I miss the most. You feel like the person who is always there for you is gone and will never come back. When emotions get involved we don't think like friends anymore. Maybe what this woman needs is alone time. She is quick to place blame. This yo-yo effect might happen again. When it does act as her friend. Tell her if she is unhappy work it out with her husband or leave him. Do this over the phone and not in person. If she continues to look for support from you tell her you can no longer do it. Situations like this are so hard because the history is there and you might feel an obligation to be there for her. I'm sorry to say that it but the friendship you once had is gone. If there was a way to get it back I wish I could tell you. For now I will tell you to live your life. Don't sit around waiting for her call.

[Confused4Now]

Inconsistency...great word. Sums everything up. And Insanity too

 

@East - we never got together as we were always in other relationships. I was in a pretty serious one when we met, and then she was, and then I was, and then she got married. Regardless of what I'm currently doing the thought of cheating / infidelity isnt something I like / approve of. Hence why I broke up with my girlfriend straight away. What you went through sounds like hell...have you run? How does it feel afterwards? Do you ever think about going back?

My story is like East and I will tell you. First off look at this woman's values...You did the right thing cause you didn't feel right and broke up with your GF. I was married and got a divorce cause I didn't feel right. What you feel is your in love with the fantasy of being with her. You pictured this future that is not real. Once you realize everything she said was a lie then you'll be able to walk away. NC will be your only option.

[SteveS]

I'm not in any way apologising for her behavior but after a decade of friendship the words: liar, manipulator, coward, bully, heartless aren't how I know her. Or used to know her. This is the girl who returned from her honeymoon two days early because my father was on his deathbed just to sit by my side. The girl who took fortnight off work to take care of me when I was very ill. Before we started the affair she was a perfect friend who I know cared for me. And she was never one to treat any of her ex boyfriends badly.

 

This affair really has brought out the worst in her...so much so that I don't recognise her at times. Again not apologising for her but isn't there a chance she's simply overwhelmed with guilt, confused, angry at herself, still loves me and she could leave her husband.

 

Does walking away, closing that door, severing ties only make me a bad friend for not being there for her and prevent any possibility of being together in any capacity - friendship, or a proper relationship?

[TurningTables]

I'm not in any way apologising for her behavior but after a decade of friendship the words: liar, manipulator, coward, bully, heartless aren't how I know her. Or used to know her. This is the girl who returned from her honeymoon two days early because my father was on his deathbed just to sit by my side. The girl who took fortnight off work to take care of me when I was very ill. Before we started the affair she was a perfect friend who I know cared for me. And she was never one to treat any of her ex boyfriends badly.

 

This affair really has brought out the worst in her...so much so that I don't recognise her at times. Again not apologising for her but isn't there a chance she's simply overwhelmed with guilt, confused, angry at herself, still loves me and she could leave her husband.

 

Does walking away, closing that door, severing ties only make me a bad friend for not being there for her and prevent any possibility of being together in any capacity - friendship, or a proper relationship?

 

 

 

Hi Steve. Walking away serves you and her. By being in NC, it gives you both time to evaluate the situation at hand. Closing that door ( for now) changes the dynamic of the friendship and relationship. Normally, from what Ive learned on here, its next to impossiable to go back to a friendship after youve crossed that "friendship" line. Maybe sometime after years go by and things settle back down, you may be able to resume. I dont know the answer to that one. For now, you need to cut ties. She sounds confused and knowing you will always take her back, the cycle will continue as long as you keep letting her back in. You need to have a conversation with her about her life. I must caution you to make sure you tell her youre not forcing her to choose, because then it wouldnt be her choosing. It has to be about what she wants for her life.She has to make those choices herself and as long as you are waiting in the wings, she is NOT going to make a decision on her own. Understand?

 

I know how you feel. I am in almost the exact situation. I just lost one of my best friends two weeks ago. Although, we stopped things before they became physical, it hurts no less. I wouldnt describe my xbest friend as a liar,coward etc either. I think sometimes people get lost and confused and use the closest people to them in the worst way. You know the old saying "We only hurt the one we love the most". Im not going to lie, it sucks, BIG TIME. You are gonna think about her, and wonder what's going on..etc. You cant escape that. Try to keep yourself busy and post here when you get the urge to contact her. It helps.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

[Breezy Trousers]

I have gone from the point I thought she was the love of my life to the point I thought she was the worst cruel b*tch I ever met...the deception is huge. People who are screwed up are cruel with the ones who love them the most. She was nasty with her H and with me as well. Until she fixes herself she can't build a healthy loving relationship. I realized I couldn't fix her, and I think u can't fix ur MW either.

 

Great advice here. Above, East is describing a personality disorder. Your partner could have borderline personality disorder (BPD). They are often very caring people and look fantastic from the outside. It's not unusual for a BD to marry someone with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), and those with NPD are often abusive in relationships.

 

You can't see the BD's disorder until you have an intimate relationship with them. Sadly, the likelihood of BDs getting help is low. They have an attachment disorder (the "come here, come here; go away, go away" yo yo game). Seduction is part of the disorder. They always present as fabulous, not disordered, in the beginning of their relationships. They are actors. They are great at romance, exciting new beginnings and seduction. However, they can't do intimacy. That's the irony. Affairs are common. Many of their partners believe they've finally met their soul mate and then, as they are gradually devalued (and they always are, in time), the partners frantically try to regain the honeymoon days. Problem is, BPDs do not respect those who love them. They hate themselves too much to trust that someone could love them. Partners recognize this vulnerability. It's what keeps them plugged in, trying to rescue the BPD. Hopeless.

 

(There's a guy on LS - Downtown -- who experienced a long-term relationship with a woman who suffered from BPD and is a great resource for information on BPD. Search for his posts on Loveshack if any of this matches your experience.)

 

It's addictive. The BPD will throw you a bone now & then to keep you plugged in when their fear of abandonment kicks in. Then you get too close, so they push you away. Partners can stay hooked for years, trying to "win" at a hopeless situation.

 

It's also the general nature of affairs, regardless of whether or not the partner has BPD.

 

NC is the only way to go here.

[BB07]

I'm not in any way apologising for her behavior but after a decade of friendship the words: liar, manipulator, coward, bully, heartless aren't how I know her. Or used to know her. This is the girl who returned from her honeymoon two days early because my father was on his deathbed just to sit by my side. The girl who took fortnight off work to take care of me when I was very ill. Before we started the affair she was a perfect friend who I know cared for me. And she was never one to treat any of her ex boyfriends badly.

 

Steve, the sooner you can accept the reality of who you've both become during this affair, the easier it will be to make a decision about it. Affairs make the parties involved........liars, cowards, manipulators, those are the cold brutal facts. Remember she has to lie and manipulate her husband to see you and don't be mistaken in assuming that she isn't lying and manipulating you also. Also it would do you good to ask yourself some hard questions also such as have you become a liar also? Most likely the answer is yes.......because I doubt you are being honest with your friends and family and who you are spending time with. Who she was then..........and who she is now is the not the same person, affairs do that. On the other hand she probably is confused and feeling guilt but that doesn't change that she is a liar and a manipulator. Obviously she isn't with you so don't make excuses for her.

 

This affair really has brought out the worst in her...so much so that I don't recognise her at times. Again not apologising for her but isn't there a chance she's simply overwhelmed with guilt, confused, angry at herself, still loves me and she could leave her husband.

 

Does walking away, closing that door, severing ties only make me a bad friend for not being there for her and prevent any possibility of being together in any capacity - friendship, or a proper relationship?

 

Remember your friendship as it was........is OVER and chances are you won't ever be able to be friends again. Rare are the people who can do this and lots of time needs to be between now and then because you both have to heal and detach. Personally........I think she wants you to be the one to walk and you should. That way she doesn't have to choose and she can tell herself that it's more your fault than hers. IMO, you can't have a future with this woman until both of you get your houses in order, for her that means leaving and figuring out who she wants to be, a woman who has affairs or one who is single and free to see who she chooses.

[MissBee]

Yo-yo'ing back and forth is very common in affairs. It usually pans out after the first year, but for some affairs it lasts for years. This is the roller coaster of being in an affair.

 

The best thing for you to do, if you want to continue the affair, is to stand back and not get on the emotional roller coaster ride with her while she is in the throes of her guilt. Otherwise you will just make matters worse. Stay calm. Understand it is just her guilt talking.

 

It looks like it will be hard for you to get the friendship back. Once you've crossed the line and it has become an emotional and physical affair, it's very hard to go back. So if you don't want an affair, you might have to do without her in your life. Sadly enough. Perhaps in the future if you are in another relationship and thus not interested in her in that way any longer, you two can be friends again.

 

I concur.

 

As one poster brilliantly said (paraphrasing), you can't cross certain lines and then try to rewind and say "Just kidding...". This is one of such lines. It sucks...but I've come to realize in life, when you make certain choices you automatically cut off others. That's how it works. If you take the blue pill then you can't also expect to have what comes along with the red pill, because you didn't choose that.

[FieldFlower]

I concur.

 

As one poster brilliantly said (paraphrasing), you can't cross certain lines and then try to rewind and say "Just kidding...". This is one of such lines. It sucks...but I've come to realize in life, when you make certain choices you automatically cut off others. That's how it works. If you take the blue pill then you can't also expect to have what comes along with the red pill, because you didn't choose that.

 

Ahh, those days of the "fog" I would have taken both the red and blue pill, and washed them down with a bong hit or two...and it would have worked out much better...lol It always boils down to choices, so amazingly simple, but human nature has to make it complicated.

 

Steve, just ask yourself this. What incentive does she have to leave? She has you on the side, ready to pick up exactly where you left off whenever SHE is ready, and a marriage that is completely outfitted and comes complete with , security, both finacial and physical, familiarity, stability, and a place where she can go "home", a place where her daughter has the same. If she has the best of both worlds, how is it that she can decide on anything, because she already has everything?

As long as you are her distraction, she won't work on her own ****, she doesn't have too, your her xanax, valuim or whatever emotional numbing tool that she uses when she needs it.

Walk away, let her deal with her crap. It's the only way she can make a sound desicion based on what she TRULY wants. If she truly loves you, wants you in her life, then she will by damn do it. Period.

Just tell her that YOU need a break from it all, that YOU deserve to be happy, and that YOU can't help her, but that if she decides that her marriage isn't what she wants, she knows where to find you, but that your not going to wait around for that day, so she better think long and hard about what is it she truly wants.

Keep busy and work on you, find things to do, whatever it takes to keep you occupied and not in that fantasizing, daydreaming crap shoot of a life. No false hope, no wishes, especially situations like these because you can hope in one hand, and **** in the other, and watch which one fills up first. Sad state of affairs when you find yourself hoping and wishing for someone to make you a priority, when the only thing stopping them is them.

Trust me, spent a year pinning away, hoping and wishing and all it got me was a broken heart, and a hand full of...

Listen to what all the good people here at LS have to say, they have been there and done that on a level that people in RL won't admit to. I have learned so much, and for the most part have taken that cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth. I don't post much, but the amount of insight that I have walked away with from this forum alone is amazing. Spend some time reading through the different threads, you will find your situation, isn't so unique after all.

Be strong, and remember that two wrongs will never equal a right.

Love isn't suppose too hurt, and true "friends" don't treat people they care about like doormats.

 

Good luck.

[Confused4Now]

Great advice here. Above, East is describing a personality disorder. Your partner could have borderline personality disorder (BPD). They are often very caring people and look fantastic from the outside. It's not unusual for a BD to marry someone with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), and those with NPD are often abusive in relationships.

 

You can't see the BD's disorder until you have an intimate relationship with them. Sadly, the likelihood of BDs getting help is low. They have an attachment disorder (the "come here, come here; go away, go away" yo yo game). Seduction is part of the disorder. They always present as fabulous, not disordered, in the beginning of their relationships. They are actors. They are great at romance, exciting new beginnings and seduction. However, they can't do intimacy. That's the irony. Affairs are common. Many of their partners believe they've finally met their soul mate and then, as they are gradually devalued (and they always are, in time), the partners frantically try to regain the honeymoon days. Problem is, BPDs do not respect those who love them. They hate themselves too much to trust that someone could love them. Partners recognize this vulnerability. It's what keeps them plugged in, trying to rescue the BPD. Hopeless.

 

(There's a guy on LS - Downtown -- who experienced a long-term relationship with a woman who suffered from BPD and is a great resource for information on BPD. Search for his posts on Loveshack if any of this matches your experience.)

 

It's addictive. The BPD will throw you a bone now & then to keep you plugged in when their fear of abandonment kicks in. Then you get too close, so they push you away. Partners can stay hooked for years, trying to "win" at a hopeless situation.

 

It's also the general nature of affairs, regardless of whether or not the partner has BPD.

 

NC is the only way to go here.

I honestly believed my AP was BPD...kinda scary for people who can't get away from them. It was very hard for me. Excellent post BT.. Edited June 26, 2011 by Confused4Now

[SteveS]

So I just called her up today. Well I was missing her. And its been a week since we've last spoken, usually enough time for her rage to subside. No intention of talking of affairs or relationships - just to say hello and ask how she was. Obviously she's still angry as she just ranted - told me to stop trying to control the situation, arrogant for not giving her space and an idiot for investing in a married woman who will obviously never leave her husband. For some reason rather than taking it as a queue to slam the phone down I tried to reason with her...reminded her that just over a week ago we had the most fantastic romantic intimate day together, that this is only her guilt talking, that I'm happy to give her space. Needless to say it only annoyed her more - she called me a stalker and threatened to change her number. As I said this is a woman I've been best friends with over a decade. Insanity.

 

Yet I know she'll come back. It might be in a week, or a month but she'll come back. She'll ask to talk. We'll meet. She'll start by telling me she can't do this. I'll either argue or agree. Doesn't matter as we'll end up having sex. And we'll start this cycle again.

 

NC seems like the only way forward but it seems like the hardest thing to do. I have a busy life - demanding work, hectic social life, multiple activities which occupy my mind and time. But every moment I'm "free" - from the moment I wake up in the morning, between meetings, whilst I'm commuting, before I fall asleep I think about her. My house is full of things she's given me and every bar, restaurant, cinema only has shared memories.

 

What I would give to rewind two years and not kiss / have sex with her that night. I'd trade that six months of magic and every magical moment since to get my friendship back. But you're all right. This friendship is over. Guilt and self hate or not its never justifiable to treat someone anyone this way. My trying to find a compromise, fix the friendship, save our relationship is all utterly pointless.

[Emme]

Steve you're killing me. Don't call the woman. Ok ok ok Steve I'm gonna tell you a little secret that only a few men know. Sometimes you have to treat a woman like sh*t for her to want you or acknowledge you. Please treat this best friend like she does not exist. I know what your going through I'm in the same university buddy boat with yah. I lost my best friend as well and we've been friends for over a decade as well. We have been having sex since year one. You got to let go. It's ok if she messes up but we are all here for you, to help you, not her. Leave her alone. Say it with me... LEAVE HER ALONE. Breathe, now go and chant that for an hour. I'm serious say it out loud for a whole hour. You can do it.

[Silly_Girl]

This affair really has brought out the worst in her...so much so that I don't recognise her at times.

 

This is my experience too. And lots of people here. I think an affair is one of the most emotionally stressful situations one can be in. I'd rather move house twice a year than have that stress on a permanent basis!

 

It's important to look after yourself and to deliberately and convincingly turn your attention to yourself frequently and do things which give your mind peace. Thinking this stuff constantly won't solve a thing, in fact I find that often it muddies the waters and I was probably correct with my instinctive thoughts, or not far off.

 

What are your instincts saying?

[East7]

So I just called her up today. Well I was missing her. And its been a week since we've last spoken, usually enough time for her rage to subside. No intention of talking of affairs or relationships - just to say hello and ask how she was. Obviously she's still angry as she just ranted - told me to stop trying to control the situation, arrogant for not giving her space and an idiot for investing in a married woman who will obviously never leave her husband. For some reason rather than taking it as a queue to slam the phone down I tried to reason with her...reminded her that just over a week ago we had the most fantastic romantic intimate day together, that this is only her guilt talking, that I'm happy to give her space. Needless to say it only annoyed her more - she called me a stalker and threatened to change her number. As I said this is a woman I've been best friends with over a decade. Insanity.

 

As I said before, unfortunately, 10 years or 10 months, the result is the same for a MW, yours or mine. It doesn't matter. You cant go back. Right here she is telling you the cold truth, she is not leaving to be with you! A MW cant go from the state of being the most amazing sweet lover to a heartless person in a couple of days. Been there and been hurt like hell for this inconsistency. As you, I didn't wanted to hear the truth she was serving me, cold and heart-ripping.

 

Contacting her in first place is the worst move. You will look like a total wuss and she will loose respect for you. It will only annoy her and make her reject you. I only initiated contact with xMW once because I was missing her and I was rejected - I bitterly regretted and thought how stupid I was to tell her I was missing her.

 

She has a very low self esteem right now and every nice action you make to re-initiate something with her (even friendship) will make her step back, reject and hurt you. On the other side, like Emme said, if you treat her like crap she will pine for you like a desperate woman because her self esteem is low. But at the end you will only end up with illusions and pain.

 

Yet I know she'll come back. It might be in a week, or a month but she'll come back. She'll ask to talk. We'll meet. She'll start by telling me she can't do this. I'll either argue or agree. Doesn't matter as we'll end up having sex. And we'll start this cycle again.

Sure like hell she WILL come back. It is part of the withdrawal state. This can go on for months and months. As long as her H doesn't know she will not have to worry about his reaction thus she will be feeling free to contact you again and again. As long as there is no D-Day her guilt will come and go. When she will be bored with him the guilt will fade and she will recontact you.

 

It is up to you to decide to feed this state of limbo or let her deal alone with her problems. If you give in, you will realize that it is only the yo-yo going on, nothing will progress or make her take a decision. You will only maintain her state of limbo. The irony of that is that she might enjoy the thrill, get somehow stimulated, increase her sex drive and ... have more sex with her husband ! I bet you don't want to stimulate her sexual life..

 

NC seems like the only way forward but it seems like the hardest thing to do. I have a busy life - demanding work, hectic social life, multiple activities which occupy my mind and time. But every moment I'm "free" - from the moment I wake up in the morning, between meetings, whilst I'm commuting, before I fall asleep I think about her. My house is full of things she's given me and every bar, restaurant, cinema only has shared memories.

I have been through that too, thinking about xMW every 'empty' moment of the day. It is natural.

 

 

What I would give to rewind two years and not kiss / have sex with her that night. I'd trade that six months of magic and every magical moment since to get my friendship back. But you're all right. This friendship is over. Guilt and self hate or not its never justifiable to treat someone anyone this way. My trying to find a compromise, fix the friendship, save our relationship is all utterly pointless.

This is your 'bargaining stage' - It is pointless to try to reason her into going back to friendship. As I said in another post, people who are screwed up hurt the people who love them the most. It doesn't matter how long you were friends, at this moment she will only cause you pain.

 

You are for sure still addicted and tremendously in love with her but as hard as it is - you need to let her alone and cut the ties because she is unable to give you any better than small stolen moments of illusion that you will pay ten times more with pain.

[SteveS]

So just to clarify: if I attempt to rationalise with her and remind her that she always comes back because she's happy with me then she'll become angry. If I put the relationship aside and try and be a good friend she'll think I'm weak and become disgusted with me. And if I ignore her, get on with my life she'll eventually come back and it'll be my responsibility to reject her even though all I want is her, because if I don't she'll eventually just cycle. That a decade of friendship is lost and may never return.

 

My instincts say run. My head says I'm bad for her and she'd be better of without me. My heart doesn't want to lose her and believes everything will work out - whether a relationship or friendship.

 

In a way I'm glad having an affair has turned her into an emotional loon. Its the only thing that i've seen that has made her angry. Well if she was okay having an affair she'd be a sociopath. Her battle with herself means she's still inherently a good person. Maybe I should set her free so she can be again.

 

Need to do something soon. She messaged today saying she wants to meet to talk. She'll let me know when. Do I meet her and hope I don't succumb to her or do I refuse to meet?

[SteveS]

So I met with my MW. God I was nervous - everytime we've met after a hiatus she's always looked stunning, an apologetic and slightly naughty glint in her eye which always made me melt and run back to her on to start the cycle again. But it was different this time. She looked tired, plain, no make up and in jeans and a jumper. Still beautiful but not "dressed". And no naughty glint in her eye either...just sadness.

 

I asked her why she had been an utter bitch to me. Whether she was just using me. Why she kept yo-yoing back and forth in a bipolar way.

 

She said she loved me. But having an affair these two years has driven her insane - guilt, regret, disgust with herself, remorse, so much anger. That her husband though having his faults is a good man who she loves and every time her does any thing good she hates herself even more. That she's unable to sleep. And those rare times she ends up having sex with two men in one day she wishes she was dead.

 

She loves me. I was the relationship she wished she had. But thats just fantasy. She is married. She has a daughter. She has a husband and she'll never leave that.

 

She knows she takes our her rage on me - but thats because I'm the only person she can take her rage out on. She accepts that a decade of friendship is over because she can either love me, cheat and hate herself, or she can hate me and not be with me. There is no platonic middle ground anymore. And she has decided she is tired of hating herself.

 

She knows regardless of whatever she says she will probably come back. And hopes I don't take her back. She wishes I would hate her and leave her, never take her back. My always being there for her, taking her back only makes it hard for her to stay away.

 

We parted company. No physical contact. She looked sad. I felt so guilty. I don't think I've ever really understood what she went through.

 

I hope I can be the bigger man and give her the space she wants. Let her get on with her life. I hope if she comes back I have the strength to not let her.

 

Thank you all for you advice on here.x