Is Yo-yo'ing back and forth normal?

[SteveS]

Okay utterly confused now. I thought she was trying to be intentionally cruel and rubbing salt into the wounds by saying how happy she is, how wonderful her marriage and husband is. I was just impressed with myself that I didn't care!

 

But how is she fishing. Surely fishing would involve complimenting and flirtation etc. Or am I just naive?

[anne1707]

There is no way that the two of you can ever be just friends. If she is supposed to be working on her marriage, then any contact with you is wrong. If she is not working on her marriage, then contact with you is being made to rekindle flames. She is just making it look like friendly, as if it is all innocent because she knows she needs to persuade you to change your mind. But you know it can't be just friends otherwise you would not be posting about it here . Your gut is telling you something is off.

[East7]

Okay utterly confused now. I thought she was trying to be intentionally cruel and rubbing salt into the wounds by saying how happy she is, how wonderful her marriage and husband is. I was just impressed with myself that I didn't care!

 

 

IMO, after she noticed that you weren't clingy and admiring her like before she is tempting to make you jealous. Message 'to her sister' then message how her M is wonderful Just playing (immature) games to get your attention.

 

If she was so "happy" and uninterested, she wouldn't even bother sending you messages.

 

You reacted perfectly by answering polite and indifferent.

Edited August 29, 2011 by East7

[lilypoo]

Hi SteveS, Ive read through your post and a lot of the replies which are fantastic by the way, it sounds to me like this women is all over the place emotionally, you have obviously struck a chord in her heart, why would she be getting so angry and abusive if you didnt, it sounds like she is in tumoil and probably angry at herself and not you, at the end of the day, its easy to abuse someone that you know is there for you...waiting! If she didnt care at all she wouldnt even answer you let alone "entertain". I think the best thing for you to do is cut off from her atm for a while, start getting on with your life, dont hang on a string...she needs to see that your not always going to be around for her, and please try and put her to the back of your mind and start concentrating on yourself, I know its difficult but it can be done. Im going through something similar, but not for as long as you have, ive been experiencing the yo yo'in for a couple of months, and ive decided that im worth so much more than this, some of the elements of your story are similar to mine, when the fella I know is getting on ok with the mrs, he distances himself from me, he goes from telling me he loves me, is frightened of me dropping out of his life etc, to confidently asking me if "I have met a fella yet etc" it hurts, one minute its like, your the one for them and in the next breath, you nothing.....the other day I was so angry and thought to myself, thats it im going to say something when I see him (we work together) so I penned down all the words that have been said and the contradictory actions that went along with them, do you know what after I got it all out on paper and read through it all....I just looked and thought, my god girl, you have been played, yes he will try and start on me again when wifey neglects him, but he is gonna get a firm no from me, infact im going to avoid him like the plague....I tried this the other day and he followed me around all day, if he does it again, im gonna tell him where to go.....I wasnt put on this earth to be picked up and dropped when someone feels like it, I want to share my life with somebody, have consistency, mutual respect, and love, not the crumbs!!! Please try and write as much down as you can, from the moment you got involved intimately, the behaviour patterns, the attitude towards you and read through it....it was a reality check for me, the fella I was involved with, will have no explanation from me, I will treat him how he has me, and if he pursues me for anything, he is gonna get a peice of my mind and left to deal with it on his own, as I have....x

[lilypoo]

Just read your post why is she being so friendly.....because she senses your indifference, fear of losing you alltogether....its easy to push someone away when you know they want you, when they are no longer around it makes you take a look at yourself!!! Well done for acting in the way you did, best thing you could do!!! x

[SteveS]

Thank you Lilypoo, and congratulations on the progress you've made with your own situation. So impressed you managed to achieve what you have whilst still working together; I can't imagine I'd be where I was if I had that amount of daily temptation. I have been writing down lists and re-reading this post which has really helped me move on. I really do feel I have even with her "coming back"...

 

You're all right of course - it is my indifference and her fear of losing me that has brought her back. Its funny, for so long I was happy to accept crumbs, a platonic friendship, anything just to have her in my life. And nothing I said or did stopped her leaving. Now I really don't care, now I no refuse to be criticized, or want that inconsistency she seems to be trying to edge herself back.

 

Anne, you're right there is no way we can just be friends. Time is a healer and over time negative emotions and memory will fade and we'll end up back in each other's arms. She knows that too which means everything she has said / done - all the melodrama is pointless.

 

I think I'd have respected her more if she said she was going to choose her husband, work on her marriage, leave and stayed gone. The fact she's back in a month is pretty pathetic actually.

[lilypoo]

Thanks Steve, the last few months have been difficult, but I hate being made a fool out of, after reading all of the comments on here it made me think even more....

I have decided that as soon as a gesture is made towards me, and he will do it, that im going to tell him I am more than aware of what he has been doing and that I think he has been cruel and that I am aware of the contradictory words and actions and that he has insulted my intelligence, will give him a few examples as well...im gonna make him question everything he has done, up until now he has got away with it...I guess I want to free my mind from it and put his own confusion back on him, then I will be fine!!!

 

I just wanted to say that you are doing so very well, I know its hard, everyone wants to be loved and cared for and to have it and then have it taken away is cruel, we all deserve muchh more than that....I got lost in love and now ive found my way again, I hope you continue to do the same x

[lilypoo]

Forgot to say, the temptation has turned into anger, so its no longer there! Infact I pity him

[Circular]

Hey Steve, this is a great thread with a lot of great advice from all points of the triangle.

 

There's not a lot I would add to what other have said except you'll need to expect you're going to cycle up and down over a long period of time. You were in a relationship of varying degrees for nearly 10 years, to be completely done after a month of NC is something I wouldn't trust, even after seeing her and feeling indifferent. Truth is you're harboring feelings and probably doing a bit of lying to yourself to protect yourself, as you wouldn't be posting here if you were completely indifferent and over it. You're riding the anger, and that latent seething may last for some time given what you lost. I'm saying this more for you to be aware that you might find yourself blindsided by your own emotions at a moments notice and wonder, why?!?!?

 

You can't be over a relationship like yours after a month, it's impossible. It takes many months or even years in some cases - and typically it's longer when it's an A because of closure issues. What you're both doing is creating a 'false friendship' it's not real, far from it. It's an emotional bargaining tactic, you both still want something, there's an emotional dependency between you two - sure you might have felt emotionally numb when you saw her, but see that for what it is 'emotionally numb' - You know when you whack your thumb with a hammer really hard and it hurts like hell but then it goes numb for a bit....?! Then a day later it hurts like hell again?

 

You need to be NC for a long time, at least 18 months or more before you can even consider trying to be friends. There's too much love/hate right now. When you meet with her as 'friends' in the current context it's only going to be to try to prove something. She's going to try to prove she's over you and vice versa, it's an emotional power struggle, which believe it or not if you play you'll find yourself back on the yo-yo road... seems impossible but you know as well as I do those feelings for her are still there, well buried, but there nonetheless.

[SteveS]

Well that was an interested three weeks. Since I last posted and we accidentally bumped into each other (funny how after the affair its accidentally whereas during the affair it would have been serendipitously!) she has been messaging daily.

 

Just superficial messages - about a handbag she bought, a dinner she cooked. I initially resisted in replying until she asked if I was seeing anyone and I replied I was. I suppose it was an ego thing - to let her know I've moved on. She probed for more details but I just said its still very early days with my new girlfriend - but I'm genuinely happy and having fun.

 

She seems really happy for me. Glad we're both happy in our own lives. She continued to message every day - and I have to admit it was nice - just very friendly conversation like the old days before the A. Not wanting any more deceit I told my new girlfriend all about my A, showed her the messages and she seemed very understanding.

 

Last week I mentioned I had a work meeting near her workplace and would be taking clients to a restaurant we used to go to. She asked if I would like to meet for coffee afterwards. As things had been utterly pleasant I said I'd be happy to.

 

After my meeting I sent her a message to say I was done. She replied said she didn't want to meet me. That she was busy. I replied that was fine, that I'd be happy to do it another time. She then replied she didn't want to meet me at all - that she doesn't want to talk to me. That she wants me to stop "bothering" her.

 

Well utterly confused, worried at what I might have said or done wrong to provoke such a reaction I called her up. She just shouted - that I was a threat to her family. that she hates me, that she wants nothing to do with me, everything to do with me leads to suffering.

 

I just said she was being unreasonable, that I don't deserve to be treated that way, that I didn't make contact, and that she's obviously angry and perhaps should calm down before we talk again...and put the phone down.

 

The truth is all those insults, all that rage really hurt. It was like going back to last Summer and all that nastiness. I hadn't felt that angry and upset in so long. And I don't want to again. I was trying to be nice - thought some kind of friendship would be possible but the reality is I don't care whether I see / speak to her again. I wish I could change my number and email address.

 

The question is - why do you think she reacted that way? To push for contact, to make endless superficial conversation, to suggest a coffee and then to meltdown even before we met. It just sounds insane.

[wannabdone]

I'm sorry Steve. Its hard to go that long, have come that far to have all that crap and those awful feelings and emotions brought back up to the surface. I am sure when you started NC it was a horrible time, a time that you got through, and a time you never want to go back to again.

 

I'm proud of you for the progress you made, and I understand not wanting to hate this woman. You have known eachother a long time.

 

My guess is, and only a shot in the dark, her H found something. And was probably standing right there. That very much sounds like one of those conversations that you have when the BS is standing over the shoulder. Made you out to be the person that goes after them while she was just taking advantage of by the big, bad OM.

 

Lose her number, don't ever return her texts or calls. You exstended the olive branch and she grabbed it and cracked it in half. She had "woman up" and be honest with her H, then she won't be honest with you. And you deserve more than that!!!

 

Good luck. And keep your chin up!!! You have come so far!!!!

[East7]

 

The question is - why do you think she reacted that way? To push for contact, to make endless superficial conversation, to suggest a coffee and then to meltdown even before we met. It just sounds insane.

 

Hi Steve, glad that you have a new GF. It makes it much easier to get over the A and the addiction to xMW.

 

It is useless to look for any logic/consistence to her behavior because it has nothing to do with you.

 

She is angry at herself not at you, she is angry that she is still addicted to you and pines for you. She must be sooo bored with hubby to text you everyday..

She follows her desires by contacting you because she enjoys your attention but then her guilt takes over and she becomes a b1tch. She doesn't express it but she must be very jealous about you having a new GF. There is nothing more possessive than a MW.

 

Don't expect anything good for her, she has made the choice to stay with her H no matter how she is bored. And no you guys can't be friends.

 

Last but not the least, pursuing the EA or any contact with her is not fair to your new GF.

[jwi71]

The question is -

 

Wrong questions.

 

Why are YOU meeting HER when you have a GF?

Does your GF know you were going?

Does your GF know the truth of who she is?

Do you reasonably believe your GF would be upset if she knew all of the above? Because I bet, and I certainly don't know, that your GF has no idea that you went or who this woman is to you. Which sounds an awful like breaking her reasonable assumption of trust - you're cheating on her. Obviously, that's moot if you told your GF.

 

Look, you are investing time and energy into your AP and NOT your GF. Not fair to her at all. And how can you expect another, and hopefully healthy, R to sprout when you divert time and energy from it and give it your old AP?

 

You'll deny it, but you still have attachments to your MW - you hint at it in your description of why you told of your new GF. Its called game playing.

 

Why the hell do you go out of your way seeking this drama?

 

I'd certainly break it off with the MW.

I'd leave the new GF too - you don't sound nearly ready to focus and commit to her and a new R.

 

Be single, mourn and heal then try again with the whole dating thing.

[SteveS]

I have been completely honest with my new GF - told her every detail of my A, let her read this thread, showed her the messages I've received / sent these last few weeks and told her I was going to meet my xMW. As I said she's been very understanding - I suppose when you're in your 30s everyone has baggage.

 

I'm incredibly serious when I say I have no romantic "feelings" for my xMW anymore or want an EA. My telling my xMW that I had a GF wasn't game playing - I wasn't trying to make her jealous. I just wanted her to know I'd started to move on. That after years surviving on crumbs I was ready for a normal relationship.

 

As I said I've been friends with her for 10 years so perhaps I do still care for her and I think there is a part of me that feels sorry for her...I don't think she's happy no matter how much she keeps telling me she is. Thats not arrogance on my part that she can't be happy without me but based on the things she's said: looking back to the conversations these last three weeks they were oddly superficial and related to how many things she had bought. She never seemed so materialistic but she seems to have spent thousands on stuff. Any yes why would she message every day if she was so happy?

 

But I guess this isn't my problem and I refuse to get beaten up trying to be a "friend".

 

I think East7 is probably right "She follows her desires by contacting you because she enjoys your attention but then her guilt takes over and she becomes a b1tch."

[wannabdone]

I have been completely honest with my new GF - told her every detail of my A, let her read this thread, showed her the messages I've received / sent these last few weeks and told her I was going to meet my xMW. As I said she's been very understanding - I suppose when you're in your 30s everyone has baggage.

 

I'm incredibly serious when I say I have no romantic "feelings" for my xMW anymore or want an EA. My telling my xMW that I had a GF wasn't game playing - I wasn't trying to make her jealous. I just wanted her to know I'd started to move on. That after years surviving on crumbs I was ready for a normal relationship.

 

As I said I've been friends with her for 10 years so perhaps I do still care for her and I think there is a part of me that feels sorry for her...I don't think she's happy no matter how much she keeps telling me she is. Thats not arrogance on my part that she can't be happy without me but based on the things she's said: looking back to the conversations these last three weeks they were oddly superficial and related to how many things she had bought. She never seemed so materialistic but she seems to have spent thousands on stuff. Any yes why would she message every day if she was so happy?

 

But I guess this isn't my problem and I refuse to get beaten up trying to be a "friend".

 

I think East7 is probably right "She follows her desires by contacting you because she enjoys your attention but then her guilt takes over and she becomes a b1tch."

 

 

Steve, I completely believe you and understand. I think when you have known someone for so long, it seems unnatural to not have them as a friend in your life. I think you are a kind hearted man, and that you wanted to make this as "normal" of a friendship as possible. Kind of like we didn't work out but we don't have to hate eachother.

 

She just simply doesn't seem to have your best interests at heart at all, and someone like that can't even be your friend.

[SteveS]

Oh I don't with regrets! I'm glad I've been completely honest with my new GF - after so much deceit and lying to those around me its nice to be completely truthful. And its helped as she's given me lots of good advice explaining my xMW's behavior and my tendency to justify her actions etc.

 

I know my xMW and I can't be friends. Not just because she can't handle friendship or because of risks of an EA or Physical Affair or because she's a selfish bitch who doesn't consider how her actions might hurt others. And I know I'm happier without her. But seeing her sway back and forth, happy one minute, emotional meltdown the next, filling a gap with excessive spending etc just makes me feel sad for her.

 

Its funny I saw an ex girlfriend last night at a friend's party. She was there with her new boyfriend. There was no uncomfortableness, no tension, no emotion. I really am friendly with all my exes. Its funny how an A prevents that.

[SteveS]

God I hate serendipity. There I was sitting in a coffee shop doing some work today when my xMW walked in. Three weeks of NC and feeling incredibly happy about life in general and the sight of her looking utterly stunning makes me excited and terrified. More terrified actually! I actually hid behind my laptop hoping she wouldn't see me but she did and wandered over. After 2 minutes of her standing making polite conversation I asked her to sit down as it was silly her standing.

 

I had no desire to talk about "us" but she quickly brought it up. That she doesn't hate me. That she is desperately trying to be a good person. That she believes that we can only be lovers or apart. I sat and agreed. She then said she doesn't see me 'that way' any more, that she is so happy with her husband on an emotional and sexual level. That she can't be have me in her life. I just nodded and smiled and said 'fair enough'.

 

Then she looked at me with her seductive eyes and said though she has no desire to be friends right now (I assume she meant lovers) things may change. That I should leave her alone until she comes back.

 

I won't lie - a part of me was excited by the prospect of having some tasty crumbs. Another part was wondering whether we'd have sex now. Another part of me was angry that she thought she could waltz in and out of my life. And another part of me didn't care. I think I had all four thoughts simultaneously.

 

And then she left. And I'm all over the place.

[Circular]

Yea, it's kind of funny how we think we're going to be/react and what actually happens. You think maybe you'll be indifferent, feel nothing, maybe even in the moment you can be cool as a cucumber. Few hours later I found myself all over the map again, it's a strange experience, but it also shows how good we are as humans to compartmentalize and put things aside and stow-away how we really feel. What's trippy is how little it takes to actually bring that all forward again.

 

Just focus on your GF, the progress you're making there and keep moving-on as they say, it's for the best, always remember that. If she truly wants to be 'good' then help her be good, that's a loving thing to do.

[SteveS]

Yes I must admit I replayed the scene in my head afterwards and wished I was more laid back and indifferent so when she talked about "her coming back" I could have said that I didn't think she should.

 

Its funny - she's chosen her husband, talking about how great things are emotionally and sexually for her (why even say that???) said that she doesn't "view me the same way", doesn't miss me or want me as a "friend" or want me in her life....yet the moment she talks about "coming back" I get as excited as a child at Christmas.

 

I hate that she has so much sway over me. Especially as now I consciously know I deserve better. Its not love its stupidity on my part!

[East7]

That she believes that we can only be lovers or apart. I sat and agreed. She then said she doesn't see me 'that way' any more, that she is so happy with her husband on an emotional and sexual level. That she can't be have me in her life. I just nodded and smiled and said 'fair enough'.

 

Then she looked at me with her seductive eyes and said though she has no desire to be friends right now (I assume she meant lovers) things may change. That I should leave her alone until she comes back.

 

.

 

Gosh, this is so INSULTING !

 

She is basically telling you "Oh boy, I don't need you anymore but if you want to come for a ride, be good and I will give you the candy....but be patient ok ?"

 

She has the nerve..!

 

Look, she is angry that you are not her puppy anymore. She HATES it and that's why she is becoming such a b1tch with you, because she is frustrated.

 

"I'm happy with my H /good sex and blah blah" = I'm the winner and I'm trying to make you jealous.

 

"I may come back one day" = Look at this juicy carrot, if you want it you have to be patient.

 

Seriously...who's she kidding !

 

Just because she told you with horny eyes "I may come back" you are all over the place? Come on Steve, you know better now, I am sure you know better..

Edited October 6, 2011 by East7

[SteveS]

Loving the new profile picture East7!

 

And yes - it all feels like game playing. Either you care about someone or you don't. Either you want to be with someone or you break up. Saying you're happy in your marriage but I might come back is just stringing me along. Frankly I'm insulted.

 

The fact I didn't tell her where to go worries me. I really am susceptible of getting sucked back in unless I find some control.

[NoIDidn't]

Gosh, Steve. She sounds personality disordered. You should check out Borderline Personality and see if the profile fits her.

 

(I am not a professional)

[East7]

Saying you're happy in your marriage but I might come back is just stringing me along. Frankly I'm insulted.

 

Why do you think she tells you this? You didn't ask, did you?

 

Someone who is really happy back in the marriage doesn't say anything or at least doesn't feel the need for "broadcasting their hapinness".

 

It is her way to be mean and hurt you just because you are not "hers" anymore.

 

The fact I didn't tell her where to go worries me. I really am susceptible of getting sucked back in unless I find some control.

 

I know how it feels, I have been there but (thank G0d) my xMW was more respectful, she would be more in the kind of "I miss you" etc. It was hard to stay strong, believe me, but with time I could see the situation clearer.

 

Go and have some good sex with your GF, it helps a lot to clear your head

[siuys]

Steve, sorry you're in this predicament. In my experience, the yo-yoing has been the norm. Even after he moved out. Even after he moved out the second time. They are confused, emotionally unavailable, guilty, bla bla bla. Affair dynamic is toxic in my opinion, and until the person has sorted him/herself out, there is no point in continuing. Expect a lot of pain if you do decide to continue. Friends or not, the boundaries have been busted, and it's time to make some decisions. It can go on like this for a long time.... do you want this? you can analyse this till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, it's unhealthy, wrong, hurtful, and it's up to you to make it right for you, and her.

[SteveS]

its funny though - I don't feel a part of the yo-yo situation. And it really is different now. During the yo-yo phases there was so much intensity - either intense love and passion or intense hatred. Now its different - I'm not saying indifference...more weariness (I think on both our parts). Neither of us are making any real effort any more - whether that be to be together or be apart.

 

Even the conversation the other day was quite pragmatic if you think about it - "I have no desire to be friends now but the reality is that might change" - in the mean time she has no wish to speak to me...AND...I have no desire to speak to her / fight to win her back either.

 

I think love, desire etc might still be present but we're just too aware of the intensity both good and bad that we don't want to play.