wife does not love me nor leave me

[Empty man]

You are absolutely right, I deserve lot better treatment.

 

I work to fulfill all she wants so that she does not have to work, get stressed.

 

I can and am doing every thing to get love from her, but all I get is anger.

 

I always think to myself, why am I doing all this for a women who does not love me, respect me.

 

when I am sick, she does not even bother to ask me, how I am.

 

I agreed to what she wanted as I do not want this to get messy. I want peaceful separation.

 

How to make this as smooth as possible, with out any fights, stress to both parents?

Should I talk to her parents about this and explain the situation?

 

Thank you for the reply.

[Owl]

I'd suggest that you do some research on the state laws in your area and how divorce works.

 

Then either hire an attorney or do some research and find out what you need to file to get the ball moving.

 

Pre-emptively file divorce since it looks inevitable anyway. Have all of your financial ducks in a row, and a gameplan in place to let you deal with any backlash she tries to create.

[Empty man]

she is surly/always way ahead of me emotionally. I am a very emotional person and she is not.

 

I use my heart in this matter and she always used her head.

 

I am feeling very down today, as I am causing pain to my parents.

 

Both of them are feeling down after hearing this and they got High Blood pressure for the first time, they got checked yesterday . I feel I am the cause for this.

 

I am confused and feel very low.

[Chi townD]

YOU DIDN'T CAUSE THIS! Her lack of love and support or any shread of wanting to work through this is causing this. At the end of the day, I'm positive that all your parents want for you is for you to be happy. And, again, I'll go on to say that you need to see a lawyer. No reason for you to bend over and take it when you don't have to.

[BeavisMom62]

Am I reading this correctly? Your wife, who doesn't love you and has no respect for you wants you to knock her up again so can she can leave you with everything the way she wants it?

 

Tell her to hit the bricks.

 

+2!! I totally agree with this. I'm sorry, I just do not understand why you would even want to try to save this marriage. You have been miserable for so long and have tried everything. You say you worry about saving face? Do you not lose face by being a doormat, allowing her to walk all over you while you continue to spend money on her, kissing her a**, allowing her to scream and yell but not communicate with you? She does not respect you, that is obvious. It is also clear that the love is gone. Is this a good atmosphere to raise a child? Do you want your son thinking this is how marriage is? Do you want him growing up, married to a shrew, throwing his money at her while she happily spends it, but he doesn't get any love, affection or respect in return? I doubt that even MC would work, but if you are determined to save your marriage, I guess give it a try, but I wouldn't count on anything. Protect yourself, your business, your money in the meantime. And if you do separate, do NOT believe that if you give her half of everything now you won't owe her anything else. She'll go to an attorney AFTER your money is gone and then you'll end up paying child support and maybe even alimony for years, and in the meantime you've already lost half of everything. Don't do it.

 

I'm sorry if this is harsh, but you need to wake up to reality man! My heart goes out to you.

[BeavisMom62]

I'd suggest that you do some research on the state laws in your area and how divorce works.

 

Then either hire an attorney or do some research and find out what you need to file to get the ball moving.

 

Pre-emptively file divorce since it looks inevitable anyway. Have all of your financial ducks in a row, and a gameplan in place to let you deal with any backlash she tries to create.

 

You said it more simply than I did. I totally agree! Listen to Owl, EmptyMan. Seriously, I don't see that you have a choice in the matter now. And as everyone has said, do NOT have another child. Not fair to the child or to you.

[Empty man]

You seem so right, I am still playing nice man.

 

You are right in saying that after I give her 1/2 of the money, she may still go to court for child support. I did not think of this, I am down and my brain is not working properly with all these disappointments going on.

 

I want it smoothly for every one. So I am just agreeing to what she is saying. I think I need to be smart now and think about me also.

 

I will get legal advice on this asap.

 

Thank you guys for advice, I wish you guys will help me through this unfortunate thing.

[Downtown]

I suggested she has/may have borderline personality disorder and she do not want to hear.

EmptyMan, I agree with you that your W's behavior is so heartless and cold that it sounds like she has strong traits of a personality disorder (PD). Whether those traits are so strong as to meet 100% of the criteria for having a full blown disorder can only be determined by a professional. Yet, even when they meet only 50% of the criteria, they can make your life miserable trying to stay married to her. It therefore does not really matter, for the purposes of deciding whether to remain with her, whether she has a full blown PD or not.

 

As to your suspicion that she has BPD, I agree you are describing several classic BPD traits -- inappropriate anger, verbal abuse, icy withdrawal, temper tantrums, and controlling behavior. I also agree that her efforts to isolate you from all your friends and your family members (claiming not to like any of them) is commonly seen in BPDers because it facilitates their efforts to control their spouses. My BPDer exW, for example, did the same thing.

 

Yet, for those traits to form a pattern of strong BPD traits, one trait must be present: emotional instability. I mention this because,so far, you have not described an unstable woman. Rather, you have described a stable woman who consistently adored you for two years (albeit with "a few arguments") and then consistently hated you thereafter. Hence, your W does not exhibit a pattern of strong BPD traits -- or you have left out an important part of your story.

 

If your W is emotionally unstable, it would be most apparent as black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" and "all bad." And she would be seen recategorizing a person from one polar extreme ("with me") to the other ("against me") -- in just ten seconds based solely on an idle comment or minor infraction. With respect to you, this all-or-nothing thinking would result in her flipping back and forth from splitting you white (adoring you) and splitting you black (devaluing you). Although BPDers (those with strong BPD traits) can end this cycle by eventually splitting the person black permanently, you should have seen the cycle for at least a couple of years at the beginning of your relationship.

 

The result of this black-white thinking is a cycle of push-away and pull-back. Specifically, as you draw close to her, the intimacy would trigger her great fear of engulfment -- a frightening feeling of being controlled and losing herself in your strong personality. To get breathing space, she would create an argument -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. This is why, with BPDers, the worst arguments usually occur immediately after the very best of times (an intimate evening or great weekend together).

 

Yet, as you back off to give her space, you will unavoidably trigger her other great fear: abandonment. She therefore would start acting extra sweet and caring to pull you back into the relationship. Because BPDers have these twin fears of engulfment and abandonment, this push-away and pull-back cycle is a hallmark of having strong BPD traits. And, as I said, the cycle will only end when and if she splits you black permanently.

 

EmptyMan, if you would like to read more about these BPD traits on this forum, I suggest you look at my posts in GreenEyedRebel's thread. They begin at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3398735#post3398735. If you have any questions about this discussion, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to professional articles that can. Take care, EmptyMan.

[Empty man]

Downtown, She is very emotionally unstable.

 

1) she dislikes all my friends, finds faults in the first meeting only. Some times Insults when they come to meet us.

 

2) When we met she liked her mother and then hated her so much that she did not talk to her for 6 months. Now she is best friend.

 

3) At work, she is close to one colleague at a time and then that person become's absolute enemy, as soon she come home, starts talking bad about that colleague non stop and she has a tendency to insult them. This took place in turns.

 

4) Use to hate her sister, now she loves her.

 

5) Her dad is always a good guy. My dad and mom were good people but now they are not ( She said she though they were nice ppl, Now she says they are very bad ppl and she hates them)

 

6) She was very possessive when she met me, always protecting me from other girls, friends. Controlled me fanatically, stopped me watching TV,playing games etc but loved me a lot.

 

7) Out of this black and white, she loved me for first 2 years and slowly it reduced and now absolutely I am black and wants to leave me.

 

8) Can not have a normal conversation with her, when I try to talk to her she starts shouting and blaming starts immediately.

 

9) she can never ask for any thing normally or sweetly. She shouts to get things for even small things. I requested her lot of times,not to shout at me, she can not just do it.

 

10) She accumulates every small thing and bursts out every week. After her bursting with uncontrolled anger/emotions she is quiet normal for another week or so.

 

Bad thing is if is does not like any body she show them in a rude way. Now she does not allow my mom to touch my son.

Other day, my friend visited my home and w was sitting the living room and she did not even say hello to him. I said you know my friend R... she just walked away.

[Downtown]

Downtown, She is very emotionally unstable.

EmptyMan, I am so sorry to hear that. I was afraid it was the case and you had just not mentioned it.

She was very possessive when she met me, always protecting me from other girls, friends.

BPDers are so unstable that cannot trust themselves, much less anyone else. When someone cannot trust you -- and I learned this the hard way over 15 years -- you cannot trust them. She can turn on you, with a vengence, at any time. On top of that, a BPDer has a strong fear of abandonment, which is why she is so controlling. And, to better control you, she will want to isolate you from all friends and family (who otherwise would tell you "That's the most ridiculous excuse I've ever heard..."). Because LTRs like marriage must be built on trust, you lack a firm foundation for your marriage.

When we met she liked her mother and then hated her so much that she did not talk to her for 6 months. Now she is best friend.

My exW and her two sisters all have strong BPD traits, like their mother. They will be best of friends for months and then won't be speaking to each other for many months. My exW once said that, with her sisters, she could tell them a joke and they would laugh at it 9 times in a row. Then, on telling it a 10th time, one sister would get go offended she would refuse to talk for six months. Although my exW never saw it in her own behavior, she was the very same way.

Controlled me fanatically, stopped me watching TV,playing games etc but loved me a lot.

As I said, BPDers are very controlling but, because they project their flaws and misdeeds onto their spouses to protect their fragile egos, they are sincerely convinced the SPOUSE is the controlling one. This is possible because projection occurs at the subconscious level, leaving her conscious mind free to actually believe the projection.

Out of this black and white, she loved me for first 2 years and slowly it reduced and now absolutely I am black and wants to leave me.

In my case, my BPDer exW flipped back and forth for 15 years, at which time she only perceived me as black. From what I've read, the permanent split to black usually takes about 12 to 15 years. As the years go by, the BPDer grows increasingly resentful of her spouse's inability to make her happy -- an impossible task, as you know too well. Moreover, as she sees her body aging, her fear of abandonment can grow to the point that she will preemptively abandon her spouse to end the growing fear of abandonment.

Cannot have a normal conversation with her, when I try to talk to her she starts shouting and blaming starts immediately.

With a high functioning BPDer, it usually is impossible to discuss any sensitive matter in a calm, rational manner. You can forget trying to bringing it up when she is in a calm, relaxed mood. Because her childhood anger is always there right below the surface, any attempt to discuss an important issue will trigger that anger within about ten seconds -- leaving you trying to have a rational conversation with the irrational child that is then in control of her.

She can never ask for any thing normally or sweetly. She shouts to get things for even small things. I requested her lot of times,not to shout at me, she can not just do it.

You are mistaken. She can do it any time she wants to. She just chooses not to. If you doubt this, just continue staying around a few more years until, one day, she calls the police and tries to get you thrown in jail for "abusing" her. A BPDer is fully capable of transforming -- within seconds -- from the raging, screaming woman into the epitomy of restraint, suddenly becoming the "calm, long-suffering victim." I saw my exW do that to me, having me arrested so she could get a protective order banning me from my own home for the 18 months it takes to get a divorce here. This was the same woman who had worshipped and adored me for many years earlier.

 

Your W is not restraining her rude, abusive behavior because you have been allowing her to throw hissy fits and temper tantrums for years -- and get away with it. You did that by walking on eggshells all that while -- not being your true self. This is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to spouses like you) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

She hates me ... but won't leave me.

As I explained, she keeps pushing you away due to her fear of engulfment (from intimacy). And she keeps pulling you back due to her fear of abandonment. You can forget about finding that Goldilocks position midway between "too close" and "too far away." After spending 15 years searching for it, I can confidently tell you it does not exist or, if it does, it is a continually shifting knife edge on which you cannot stand. This is why the SECOND-biggest selling BPD book is called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me, which is essentially the title of this thread ("Wife Does Not Love Me or Leave Me").

She accumulates every small thing and bursts out every week. After her bursting with uncontrolled anger/emotions she is quiet normal for another week or so.

My exW was that way too. But the temper tantrums (typically lasting five hours) do not come in a predictable interval. Because they are usually triggered by anything arousing her fear of engulfment, a BPDer usually creates arguments (over nothing) immediately after intimate moments, as I discussed earlier. The rages also will occur after an incident (e.g., your looking at another woman for a half-second instead of a third-second) that triggers her fear of abandonment.

Bad thing is if is does not like any body she show them in a rude way. Now she does not allow my mom to touch my son. Other day, my friend visited my home and w was sitting the living room and she did not even say hello to him. I said you know my friend R... she just walked away.

Meanness and vindictiveness are hallmarks of having strong BPD traits. It occurs not because the BPDers are mean and evil but, rather, because their perception of other peoples' motivations and intentions is distorted by their intense, uncontrolled feelings. Significantly, although the strong BPD traits can explain her mean behavior, they cannot excuse it. It therefore is important that she be held fully accountable for her own actions and choices. This means you must establish strong personal boundaries and start enforcing them, allowing her to suffer the logical consequences of her own decisions.

 

Please keep in mind that, if your W is a high functioning BPDer, a divorce will get nasty really quick. Hence, if you are thinking about divorce, you will do well to tap into the experiences of hundreds of other folks dealing with the very same problems (see forum mentioned below). They will have many good tips to offer you, e.g., getting all your ducks in a row and announcing the divorce only when you are prepared -- and not telling your W that she has strong BPD traits (she almost certainly will project it right back onto you, becoming convinced you are the one with strong traits). Further, if she has strong BPD traits, MC likely will be useless until she has had years of therapy to address her deep rooted issues.

 

For further information, I suggest you start participating (or lurking, at least) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest BPD website I've found that is targeted only to the partners and family members of BPDers. Of the 8 message boards there, the two that may be most helpful to you are "Leaving" and "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD." I especially encourage you to read Article 9 at that website. It is located at http://www.bpdfamily.com/tools/articles9.htm. And, of course, we LS members will continue to provide you support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Did you have a chance to read the discussion in GreenEyedRebel's thread? If so, did you find any of the other BPD traits there to be especially applicable to your W?

Edited July 3, 2011 by Downtown

[Calif_hope]

You need to equip yourself with the ability to record and document your wife off the deepend episodes. Could be helpful in mediation, court, or even just sharing with family to protect your son.

[Empty man]

downtown, the resource you gave was very valuable and your feed back explains a lot. There lot of similarities as what you said you wife also had.

 

How did your relation end, are you happy now? How is your wife coping? Did you have kids? if yes, how is their upbringing.

 

Calif_hope- I am not in a position to think smart and record everything. I am going through kind of depression. Thank you for your advice, I will be careful.

 

 

You need to equip yourself with the ability to record and document your wife off the deepend episodes. Could be helpful in mediation, court, or even just sharing with family to protect your son.

[Downtown]

downtown, how did your relation end, are you happy now? How is your wife coping? Did you have kids? if yes, how is their upbringing.

EmptyMan, my marriage ended the way an online therapist said it would. He said that relationships with BPDers typically last 18 months or 12 -15 years. They last 18 months, he explained, when the Non (i.e., the nonBPD partner) has strong personal boundaries. The Non enjoys the 6 month honeymoon period of mirroring and then is willing to spend up to a year trying to reestablish the blissful honeymoon conditions. Then he bails.

 

The relationship usually lasts 12-15 years, he explains, when the Non has strong caregiver traits and thus has low personal boundaries. Such a Non typically never bails. Instead, the BPD leaves him because, as the years go by, she becomes increasingly resentful of his inability to make her happy or fix her. Also, she may become increasingly fearful of abandonment as she sees her body aging every year. This explanation struck a strong chord with me because my relationship lasted 15 years, at which time my wife had me arrested on a trumped up charge and filed a restraining order barring me from my own home for a year and a half (when the divorce was finalized).

 

Significantly, most high functioning BPDers like my exW treat strangers and casual friends with much caring and kindness -- because those people pose no threat of abandonment or engulfment, as I explained. Mutual friends therefore had no idea my exW had a dark side. I therefore lost several mutual friends when she and I separated. I also lost 4 of my 5 adult stepkids, the youngest of which is now 30.

 

Since then, my exW has called me several times, trying to reestablish our "friendship." Indeed, I sat beside her a few months ago when our grandson got married. When she called, I asked her if she still believed I am a frequent liar and violent (her projections). She said, "Oh, yes." I explained to her that she is incapable of trusting me (due to years of sexual abuse from her dad). Absent that trust, I said, there is no foundation on which to build a friendship, much less a marriage. It is very sad because I have loved her for over 40 years -- and still love her.

[Empty man]

Now I am in a position, where I have prepared myself for the divorce.

 

She does not trust me my help in this situation, I still want her to be happy and this whole divorce goes smooth with less pain as possible for everyone.

 

What do you suggest, how to make this smooth. If I handle this any rough, she would get mad and capable of doing anything.

 

What are the things I should do help my son cope with this.

 

How should I be behaving. She is even protects my son from me. She is not letting him play with other kids. She wants to be all by herself along with him at all times.

[Downtown]

I still want her to be happy and this whole divorce goes smooth with less pain as possible for everyone.

That is an admirable goal. If your W has strong BPD traits, however, things will not go smoothly. She will behave like an angry child. As you already observed, "when I try to talk to her she starts shouting and blaming starts immediately." Like I said earlier, approaching her when she is in a calm mood does no good because, in 10 seconds, the tremendous anger inside her -- anger she has carried since childhood -- will be triggered. At that point, she splits off the rational, logical adult part of her mind, putting it out of touch of her conscious mind. You are left trying to reason with an angry four year old.

What do you suggest, how to make this smooth. If I handle this any rough, she would get mad and capable of doing anything.

"Smooth" is out of the question. Because your son is involved, your divorce almost certainly will be more difficult than mine. As I noted, the worse thing that happened to me was her calling the police and having me thrown in jail for 3 days on a bogus charge. And her distortions caused all five of my adult stepchildren to stop speaking to me, so I lost them and 5 grandchildren. Two years later, the oldest reunited with me so, for the past three years, I've had her and her three children back as part of my family (indeed, the oldest grandson invited me to photograph his wedding last year).

 

To minimize the vindictiveness and hatefulness, it is best to get all your ducks in a row before announcing your decision to divorce. As I suggested above, I urge you to participate in the "Leaving" and "Raising a Child" message boards at BPDfamily.com. There, you will be helped by dozens of folks -- nearly all of them caregiver men just like you -- who have recently left or divorced a BPDer. Like you, most of them still love their ex-partners but knew the relationship was too toxic. And many of them divorced a BPDer after having children with them.

 

Of course, you should obtain a recommendation for an excellent divorce attorney immediately and then follow his expert advice. He likely will tell you there is zero chance of getting a psychologist to testify that your W suffers from BPD even if her disorder is full blown. As I've explained in other threads, psychologists are loath to tell a high functioning patient her true diagnosis and they absolutely hate the notion of revealing it to a court in testimony against her.

What are the things I should do help my son cope with this? She is even protects my son from me. She is not letting him play with other kids. She wants to be all by herself along with him at all times.

Again, I urge you to raise that question at the two message boards I mentioned above. The members there have been there, done that. And, as I suggested earlier, I urge you to read the article 9 ("Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD") and the book, Stop Walking on Eggshells. And, as painful as it will be, you need to start documenting all of her dysfunctional behavior to the extent you can -- as Calif-Man suggested.

[Empty man]

thank you,

 

Now divorce is mutually agreed. That is what she wanted. I am also accepted the fact.

 

I spoke to my lawyer got his advice. But my W is demanding more and blackmailing me making it very difficult. She is mailing my siblings, friends about my whole life story. How bad a person I am and why she have taken this decision which is good for our son. So many lie's there.

 

If I ask her stop doing it, she is demanding more money are things. This is crazy.

 

She is ruining my life.

 

I will visit the forum mentioned my down.. I have already read the articles.

[Downtown]

Empty, one more thing: I suggest you play hard ball when negotiating. Because she feels entitled to everything, you buy yourself no good will by starting out "being fair." Moreover, as I've already explained, a BPDer typically is incapable is building up a store of good will on which you can latter draw. Instead, she will be driven by whatever intense feelings she is experiencing each day. Hence, if your negotiations begin from a generous position, she likely will expect half of all that you have not yet conceded. Your attorney should be able to guide you on your best negotiation strategy, especially with respect to child custody. I wish you the best.

[Downtown]

Empty, another useful resource -- which is so new I forgot to mention it -- is the book,

Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Released just a few weeks ago, this book likely is excellent because it is co-authored by the same guy who wrote the classic Stop Walking on Eggshells -- which is still the best selling BPD book targeted to the partners and family members.

[Empty man]

Down Town,

 

thanks for the resources. also I started a thread on bpd family.

 

Now my wife is playing dirty, She is mailing every one, I know before I met her 9 yrs ago.

 

She is announcing that we are separating and asking them how I was before i met her.

 

She also mailing all my college mates, whom I have seen for 10yrs.

 

What should I do to stop this. She making my life hell.

[Downtown]

Empty, it sounds like she is trying to dig up dirt on you that can be used against you in a custody fight. If there is no dirt to be found, I wouldn't worry about it. I assume she is being careful not to say anything slanderous in writing because that could be used against her. Given that she is simply declaring your separation and asking for background information, it seems to be a dead end project and she will come up empty handed -- looking like a vindictive person to anyone who really knows you. Like I said, my exW wife claimed I brutalized her and had me arrested (for pushing her away from a bedroom door she was destroying to get to me when she was in a fit of rage).

 

When a BPDer splits you black, they can perceive you to be the devil incarnate and will treat you accordingly. This is why meanness and vindictiveness are hallmarks of folks having strong BPD traits. I'm afraid you're going to have to deal with more serious problems than her mailing out a questionaire to your old acquaintenances. Significantly, your W is doing what you should be doing: documenting her behavior, as CalifMan suggested.

 

In my case, I bought a small solid-state recorder and attached it to my office phone and recorded all calls my exW was making to me. You may want to also have one recording in your shirt pocket every time you two meet to exchange your son. I expect you will get even better suggestions at the "Leaving" and "Raising a Child" message boards.

[blazer2001]

im sorry sounds like my story my wife i think has been emotionally withdrawn from me for a long time now i just cant make her happy she also would need to drink to have sex with me and then deney that. i left finally yesterday after she said she cant stand to see the sight of me anymore and just really hates me . i am as lost as you it just really sucks man we have 2 kids tho. i say leave now it sucks man but i dont think you can reverse things