He lied to me

[denise_xo]

ES, I think you are emotionally abusing this guy. Seriously. YOU should get your psychologist's view on this.

[PK]

Not good, I would leave the OP for her behavior. Trust is essential for a relationship, having dealt with my share of untrusting ladies, you are constantly defending yourself.

 

Gentleman, and ladies as well, be warned for this type of behavior and do not tolerate it. Be a good guy or girl and let that carry you, no need to defend yourself

[vsmini]

This guy said he wanted to cancel all of his guys nights out and all your girls nights out and basically throw his social life out the window so the two of you can have each other and NOTHING else?

 

Yea - that's healthy. I wouldn't want a guy that was so unbalanced in a relationship. People NEED other relationships in their lives. The fact that he's willing to dump his friends for just one person (who he has known less than 6 months) shows a huge character flaw on his part.

 

I disagree about so many people saying ES is emotionally abusing him - she might be very manipulative and painfully insecure but this guy is letting himself turn into a total loser.....better yet - he probably has been all along.

 

Healthy and balanced guys don't often becoming attracted/tolerate girls like ES. It's a huge red flag on his part that he has been in this relationship.

 

He isn't good for you ES. You need a guy that is secure with who he is and what he is doing in his own life and doesn't cry at your feet. He kind of sounds like a male version of you. Gotta get someone stronger and make yourself stronger!

[make me believe]

This guy said he wanted to cancel all of his guys nights out and all your girls nights out and basically throw his social life out the window so the two of you can have each other and NOTHING else?

 

Yea - that's healthy. I wouldn't want a guy that was so unbalanced in a relationship. People NEED other relationships in their lives. The fact that he's willing to dump his friends for just one person (who he has known less than 6 months) shows a huge character flaw on his part.

 

I disagree about so many people saying ES is emotionally abusing him - she might be very manipulative and painfully insecure but this guy is letting himself turn into a total loser.....better yet - he probably has been all along.

 

Healthy and balanced guys don't often becoming attracted/tolerate girls like ES. It's a huge red flag on his part that he has been in this relationship.

 

He isn't good for you ES. You need a guy that is secure with who he is and what he is doing in his own life and doesn't cry at your feet. He kind of sounds like a male version of you. Gotta get someone stronger and make yourself stronger!

 

Omg...I totally agree. Crying and wanting to cancel all boys & girls nights completely?? Totally unhealthy, and my god what a wimp this guy is. For some reason he is terrified of losing her, and lets her completely walk all over him. I am over feeling bad for him because he is voluntarily handing her his balls over & over again. Sheesh...

[blueskyday]

I think at some age, guys should really give up the whole regular guys night out anyway. Once in a while, sure, but couple time becomes more important, and your SO's feelings become the priority.

 

I don't think this guy is a wimp. I think he is acting like a guy who wants a serious, dedicated relationship and is willing to prove it. Of course, it can easily go over the line into control by ES, which is what everyone is pointing out.

 

ES, he responded very well to your concerns. I would think you feel relieved, but you don't. Maybe that's the problem. What would it take for you to feel safe? Can you feel safe?

 

I suffer from the same anxiety you have. It helps to look at what the best outcome you two could have had from this little conflict, and you got it! He was empathetic, and you two talked about expectations for the future.

 

If it were me, I would have kissed him, smiled and said "thank you, I trust you." He is acting trustworthy.

 

If you don't want him hanging out with exes then simply say you are uncomfortable with it (although I think he knows it now.) Really, he seems like a great guy who didn't know what to do when he was in that situation. He told you almost immediately. It's all good.

 

He obviously wants to please you. Don't abuse that power. Work on your own stuff internally, and make sure he is behaving well externally.

 

I wouldn't be cool with my guy hanging out with an ex. I'd expect him to leave the situation or invite me to come at the moment he realized she was there. Then I would be aware of it, and probably would say "Go have fun. I trust you."

 

Bottom line. Relax. All is well. Anxiety is something that you have to deal with. If you are going to tell yourself a story, tell yourself a good positive story until you know differently. In this case, he is a good guy who wants to please you.

[Survivor12]

This whole situation has now gone from ridiculous & annoying to creepy and sickening. Pathetic.

[carhill]

He isn't good for you ES. You need a guy that is secure with who he is and what he is doing in his own life and doesn't cry at your feet

 

IMO, great analysis of their current incompatibility. While I was commenting in her threads, I was thinking to myself "This guy needs to pick a path and walk it!" He's all over the place. Others opined his behavior was/is response to OP's behavior but I'm calling him out on that. He *chooses* how to behave. He can walk his path and stay true to himself regardless of what the OP throws at him. He has a choice.

 

Based on the parental meet, he ticks off all the superficial checkboxes, so it's more likely a person would 'stay in the game' with him, and, if the OP is waffling on stay or go, that's likely one factor in it.

 

I'll go out on a limb and opine that, with some effective therapy, they could make a great couple. If nothing else, the process could solidify them as loving and healthy individuals. Why not explore that? Current incompatibility does not have to be irreconcilable incompatibility.

[blueskyday]

Must qualify: Guys night out is great, but only if it is not excessive, several times a week at a bar! That's what I meant.

[blueskyday]

I think they ARE compatible, just both anxious. Someone has to relax, and the other will follow....

[Mme. Chaucer]

This whole situation has now gone from ridiculous & annoying to creepy and sickening. Pathetic.

 

I think so too.

 

ES - your "walls are up," you have him completely unmanned and ready to give up all of his friends so he can "spend all his time with you."

 

Will he still be allowed to go to work? How are you going to keep an eye on him there? Is a full time PI in your budget?

 

Are you feeling triumphant and powerful when you see him bawling and offering to have no friends just to make you "happy"? Do you still even LIKE him, now that he's a groveling sobber? (I don't blame him, either. You have all the skills to get a guy in that condition, especially with your current powerful ammo. He had no choice but to completely hand over his entire sense of self to you - or to walk out and never look back at you).

 

I am just sick at your attitude that he has committed some cardinal sin that signifies terrible weakness, immorality, and lack of ethics - while you are completely blithe about your trespasses on his privacy.

 

I am a woman, and I have had cheaters for boyfriends, as well as been married to a man who embezzled from our family business, cheated our employees, stole from our savings for drugs. I've also been involved with a controlling man whose insecurities ended up in violence, and in his efforts to completely isolate me.

 

Speaking for myself, if I had to choose between a man who would hang out with an ex girlfriend in a night club and then party on with her and her friends a little while after - and conceal this from me until the next day, and A MAN WHO GOES THROUGH MY CELL PHONE, COMPUTER, HANGS AROUND MY COED ACTIVITIES TO MAKE SURE I AM NOT "INAPPROPRIATELY" INTERACTING WITH THE GUYS THERE,

 

I so, so, so choose the former.

 

The "lying" club event was not insignificant, IMO. It presented a big challenge, and the time to either decide that his "relationship ethics" were too "expedient" for you (which is a laugh, considering the "relationship ethics" of spying that you bring to the table, but whatever - you are free to decide that his are too low for you), and to end the relationship because of this (honorably and respectfully, in light of what you two have already shared) OR to put all the crap on the table and work through it - AGAIN, HONORABLY AND RESPECTFULLY.

 

Obviously, neither of these two options suited you.

[utterer of lies]

Healthy and balanced guys don't tolerate girls like ES. It's a huge red flag on his part that he has been in this relationship.

 

That's true. But I draw the opposite conclusion: they match.

 

If ES doesn't go full batshît again, it'll be ok. They both found someone they can be happy with, despite their obvious deficiencies in emotional and psychological health.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Just wanted to add:

 

I am not "on his side." At all.

 

I agree with Carhill that he chose to allow himself to be in this position.

 

A "real" man (and woman) needs to own up to their mistakes, when they believe they've made them. And then immediately carry on.

 

It was bf's choice to "party" with the ex, to withhold the facts, to ultimately tell the facts ... and ALSO to allow himself to turn into a puddle over all of it.

 

I'm always bothering ES about her boundaries. Well, the guy has boundary issues too. If he had it together, no matter how sorry and guilt ridden he felt about his transgression, he would NEVER have stayed for the torture fest. He would have gone home, and given her whatever space SHE needed to determine whether she could accept his contrition and carry on in a healthy and positive way (time and space without contact) - or if she needed to, as she has said several times on this thread, end the relationship over it.

 

Evidently he and ES both like to engage in this manner. To me it's very sick, but I guess it might signify a potential for a good match.

 

ES, just decide if you want to carry on or not. If you DO, you are going to need to go to counseling or else he is going to step on one of your generously strewn land mines again very soon. And, you are going to need to be honest about YOUR transgressions (no privacy for bf allowed, ever, in ANY respect) and let HIM decide if that's okay, too. Well, I hope that through therapy you will change the sense of entitlement you have to all of his privacy in the interests of "protecting your heart."

 

AND, you are going to have to be able to forgive this lie, and also let him spend time with his friends (not necessarily "clubbing"), or else you two will be the sickest couple ever and neither of you will HAVE any friends, because nobody likes to hang around with crazy obsessive shut-ins.

[Kamille]

My biggest concern is this. What does the guy have to do to earn your trust? Is it even within his power?

[phineas]

Once ES has completely broken him completely she will loose attraction to him & dump him for another guy & the cycle will repeat.

 

I've seen it before with women like the OP.

[Lady vs Panda]

There's something self-centered and weak about someone who's got expedient relationship ethics.

 

Completely agree with this principle, but do not see it here.

 

ES, I think you are emotionally abusing this guy. Seriously.

 

I do see this.

 

My biggest concern is this. What does the guy have to do to earn your trust? Is it even within his power?

 

And I definitely see this.

 

Why aren't you on anxiety medication? Have you ever asked a doctor about it?

[ivalm]

While I'm usually very supportive of ES and wish her all the best, I think the latest turn of events is frankly very disappointing. ES, you are psychologically abusing the guy. Stop it now or dump him, please!

[Star Gazer]

Must qualify: Guys night out is great, but only if it is not excessive, several times a week at a bar! That's what I meant.

 

He's had a guys night on average one time a MONTH, and this wasn't even a true guys night as HE INVITED ES.

[betterdeal]

Here's how it works: she displays her childlike inner self to him, turns on the water works, shows him her scars and is all vulnerable and hurt whilst laying the blame for this agony at his door.

 

He, being pretty normal and that, hates to see someone he loves and cares for hurt and his childlike inner self feels awful, lost, bewildered, scared and trapped. If he resists, she will be hurt even more; if he doesn't resist, he will be giving up the last of his privacy to her. He sacrifices his own happiness, his own sense of self, to protect her from more harm.

 

All the while, at the back of his mind, in his adult self, he's seeing a pattern of ever-more demands, and getting a sense that there will never be sustained, confident, stable happiness between them. He's developing his periphery vision now; beginning to look for the ghost crabs of her displeasure, darting in and out of his field of vision.

 

Soon he'll be exhausted, if not already, from all this hyper-vigilance, this cutting off from reality that the emotional blackmail has affected on him. His thinking will get cloudy. His sleep erratic. His diet, deteriorate. It will feel like a black fog has descended on his frontal lobe. He will be completely dependent on her for happiness, for direction. He is broken. Like a slave.

 

And she still won't be happy. She'll be disgusted by how weak and needy and mongoloid he's become. She'll mock him, to get a rise, to get some emotion out of him. And one day, he might say something back, or even hit her, as his inner self finally identifies her as the cause of his misery, and makes a desperate attempt to defend itself.

 

Cue, she is now the "victim". She likes this. She knows this. She's perfectly practised in this role. It's all getting exciting again. With the expertise she has in revealing her childlike inner self to keep tugging at his heartstrings, she can manipulate him into chasing her, feeding that insatiable emotional black hole inside her.

 

This lasts for a period, but she's bored. This guy is a loser. He has no friends. He's not spontaneous any more. Even the sex is pedestrian. What she needs is a hero, a woodsman to dispense with this boring old wolf, and to rescue poor little red riding hood.

 

And so the cycle repeats.

[snug.bunny]

Mutual respect

Trust

Honesty

Support

Fairness/equality

Separate identities

Good communication

A sense of playfulness/fondness

 

Do ANY of the above conditions apply?

 

 

---------------------> Yes/No

[sm1tten]

Frankly, this is all getting more and more disturbing by the post, and it's also going around in circles. There are too many tears, boundary violations, and just plain weirdness going on here. We are past the point of red flags and we've moved into... whatever is worse than red flags.

[johan]

Here's how it works: she displays her childlike inner self to him, turns on the water works, shows him her scars and is all vulnerable and hurt whilst laying the blame for this agony at his door.

 

He, being pretty normal and that, hates to see someone he loves and cares for hurt and his childlike inner self feels awful, lost, bewildered, scared and trapped. If he resists, she will be hurt even more; if he doesn't resist, he will be giving up the last of his privacy to her. He sacrifices his own happiness, his own sense of self, to protect her from more harm.

 

All the while, at the back of his mind, in his adult self, he's seeing a pattern of ever-more demands, and getting a sense that there will never be sustained, confident, stable happiness between them. He's developing his periphery vision now; beginning to look for the ghost crabs of her displeasure, darting in and out of his field of vision.

 

Soon he'll be exhausted, if not already, from all this hyper-vigilance, this cutting off from reality that the emotional blackmail has affected on him. His thinking will get cloudy. His sleep erratic. His diet, deteriorate. It will feel like a black fog has descended on his frontal lobe. He will be completely dependent on her for happiness, for direction. He is broken. Like a slave.

 

And she still won't be happy. She'll be disgusted by how weak and needy and mongoloid he's become. She'll mock him, to get a rise, to get some emotion out of him. And one day, he might say something back, or even hit her, as his inner self finally identifies her as the cause of his misery, and makes a desperate attempt to defend itself.

 

Cue, she is now the "victim". She likes this. She knows this. She's perfectly practised in this role. It's all getting exciting again. With the expertise she has in revealing her childlike inner self to keep tugging at his heartstrings, she can manipulate him into chasing her, feeding that insatiable emotional black hole inside her.

 

This lasts for a period, but she's bored. This guy is a loser. He has no friends. He's not spontaneous any more. Even the sex is pedestrian. What she needs is a hero, a woodsman to dispense with this boring old wolf, and to rescue poor little red riding hood.

 

And so the cycle repeats.

 

Welcome to the lynching of ES.

 

It's threads like this that make me wonder why we don't have stoning for punishment in the US. There would be no shortage of people wanting to participate.

[betterdeal]

Welcome to the lynching of ES.

 

It's threads like this that make me wonder why we don't have stoning for punishment in the US. There would be no shortage of people wanting to participate.

 

I've suggested no such thing. I wonder why that idea came into your head, johan?

[BetheButterfly]

He went to a bar with his friends last night. He kept in touch through the night. He was updating me where they went and who with.

 

Today he confessed that they actually run into his ex. Then they went with her and her friends to another bar. He failed to mention it in his texts. I texted him right around that time and he said that he is "consoling his male friend after a break up". He also got really drunk which is unusual for him (I explicitly told him not to drink much and to have an early night because he is meeting my parents today).

 

My issue is, why dishonesty about running into his ex and hanging out with her? Sure he confessed the next day but why not right away when I was texting him at the time?

 

We argued over this. He claims that he didn't mention it at the time because he knew I would lay awake at home worrying over it. He didn't want to put me through that so he decided to wait till he saw me to tell me.

 

I feel like he lied that night and I am really not sure how to trust him on his next boy's night.

 

He is now sleeping in a bed next to me. I feel like I am disconnecting with him over this and my walls are going up

 

Am I over-reacting?

 

Some things to think about:

 

1. He doesn't control his ex. It is very possible he did not know they would run into each other.

 

2. You do worry a lot. He didn't tell you before (when it happened) because he knows you have high insecurity issues.

 

3. He did tell you the next day, yes? He is being honest with you, yet when you get mad and think of breaking up with him, you are punishing him for his honesty.

 

4. He is human. Every human makes mistakes.

 

5. He was not cheating on you. He was talking with an ex. Exes are people too. Seeing an ex in a public setting does not automatically mean cheating. It just means people go to the same places and eventually see people they know.

 

6. Insecurity, fear, and lack of trust hurts relationships. If you ever want to have a good relationship, you need to learn to trust and to be secure and confident. Insecurity, fear, and lack of trust do not prevent infidelity. The only thing that prevents infidelity is a the person in question making the choice, the decision, to be faithful.

 

7. You have the opportunity to be in a relationship with a man who loves you and is trying to make the relationship work. If you give up on the relationship, you will find that the next relationship also requires work. There is no perfect relationship. Each and every relationship requires work and caring more for the other person than for yourself.

 

8. Do you care for him more than for yourself? Or, are you just in this relationship for your benefit, not for his? If you do not care about him, then I advice you to break up with him over this, and be prepared to break up with each and every one of your other relationships when guys make mistakes. Guys aren't perfect (girls aren't either.) If you do care for him, learn to work things out.

[rafallus]

Welcome to the lynching of ES.

 

It's threads like this that make me wonder why we don't have stoning for punishment in the US. There would be no shortage of people wanting to participate.

 

http://www.megaultrachicken.com/images/GoodTroll.jpg

[Feelsgoodman]

That's true. But I draw the opposite conclusion: they match.

 

If ES doesn't go full batshît again, it'll be ok. They both found someone they can be happy with, despite their obvious deficiencies in emotional and psychological health.

Happy? I doubt it. A year or two from know, the OP will find herself another unsuspecting victim and dump this guy's sorry ass without thinking twice. By that time, he will be completely ruined as a person - an emotional wreck, alienated from his social circle, with no life of his own. There's a good chance he will become an alcoholic and/or a bitter misogynist.

 

In many way it's his own fault, as the guy is clearly too weak to stand up to the OP and either kick her to the curb or put her in her place. That still doesn't change the fact that the OP is a disgusting human being (and I use the term "human" very loosely)