Fondue Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I read more than I post on LS... I been following your threads quite actively, ES. And I have to say this: You are a type of person that makes it impossible to have a relationship with. Honestly, I'm not trying to be mean. I just giving you the truth. You over analyze EVERYTHING, make any little bit of a questionable act into the biggest travesty ever, and you have major trust and insecurity issues. Like, REAL bad. You have terrible insecurities. From what you have been telling us the past couple of months, this guy is an absolute sweetheart of a man (yah, I can say these words and still feel manly). The guy is awesome. You're sabotaging your own relationship by simply making stuff up for yourself and blowing things out of proportion. So friggin' what he didn't text you who he was with. Why the hell were you texting him the entire night anyway? Bad enough you can't fathom that he wants to be out with his friends once in a while, but then you're putting a giant leash on him by keeping him to his phone the entire evening? Really? In this relationship, he isn't the villain. Absolutely not. It's your personality that's detrimental. Deal with yourself before you decide to deal with other people and enter relationships. Please. Do yourself that favor. Link to post Share on other sites
heartshaped Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I have to agree with the majority here in saying that you are overreacting. You have been looking for the slightest reason to call this relationship off from the beginning. It's your insecurities and trust issues working over time. I would also like to point out that if you can call what he did lying, he lied by omission, and if you want to stand in judgment of him for lying to you by omission, shouldn't you stand in judgment of yourself because I know you've gone through his phone and things without his knowledge and have not confessed thus to him. My point is how can you be angry at him for keeping one thing from you when you keep lots of things from him? I can name a few just of the top of my head and I don't even know you in real life. If you want full frontal honesty and disclosure, then set that as the standard in your relationship, but you must also be willing to do the same. Although, this is overreacting to the extreme since he did tell you on his own the next day. He could have kept it from you entirely as I'm sure a good many would have. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Lying is an attractive option when something minor is going on that your mate is going to treat as major. It was a bit of a can't-win situation for him. No matter what he says, he loses. The one thing he could have done to keep the peace with you would be to remove himself from the situation altogether. But for a guy who wants to live life as a man, it's not right to measure every situation based on what your woman might think of it. You must choose for yourself and trust your own judgment. But what do you do when you're pretty sure your mate doesn't really trust you or your judgment? Particularly if she's someone you really care for? This is evidence that he feels he's on eggshells with you. Not that he cheated or that he ever would. It's definitely important to tell the truth. But every action has consequences. Sometimes the consequences of telling the truth aren't worth it. The biggest problem here isnt his trustworthiness. It's the fact that you can't really go for longer than a week without a major issue. You say that now you think you can't trust him. What that implies is that you actually did before this. I think you really need to take this to heart, and I know you trust Johan and don't think he's out to undermine you. You've been spying on him constantly even when he gave you no cause (checking his phone, his fb, all his emails, etc, while he was in the shower.) Just FYI, I think that's an egregious an affront as what he did last night (which I agree was wrong). The bf screwed up. It's going to be up to you to determine whether you can move past this with him or not. Also, I have said before and I will say again that the parameters (or "terms," as you put it) that YOU have set in place for this relationship are completely untenable and a huge set-up for failure. In fact, they MUST fail. I imagine that he is trying his best to be your "knight" and to continue to text you hourly each and every day, stay in absolute constant contact all night while he's out, keep all your fears at bay - but NO ONE CAN DO THIS FOR ANOTHER PERSON. His is terribly cornered and bound to screw up, and you have put yourself in a corner too - just waiting for him to screw up, which inevitably will happen. He did know how you'd react to what he did ... I would not say this proves he's "dishonest" or his "ethics are expedient." It proves that he screwed up and was afraid of your reaction, and confused, and avoiding. He's a human being. Does the fact that you sneakily breach all his privacy prove that YOUR "ethics are expedient"? Just for fun, I will re-tell this story as if it occurred in a healthy NEW relationship between two people who realize that each other: Guy is going out to the bars with his friends, and girlfriend is not exactly comfortable with it but she knows that he's a basically good guy who is trustworthy and who really, really digs her, and that he probably will behave himself. Also, she is well aware of how people need some space and breathing room. After all, if he can't maintain reasonable decorum while out with his boyz ... so she wishes him a good time and spends that evening at a work function. Later she goes home to read, and falls asleep. To be honest, she did have a few moments of anxiety about what he was up to, but she did not nurture those. Next day, she hears from him. She asks about the night and he says he had a good time, but he's a bit vague. She wonders, but wisely keeps her mouth shut. Later that night they get together. He is not comfortable or 100% feeling "right" about what happened, but he decides to tell her about seeing his ex and her friends, and doing some club hopping with them into the night. She is slightly taken aback, and lets him know it. She really isn't threatened by the girl or the situation, but on the other hand, would prefer such things not really be happening within their burgeoning, serous relationship. She does tell him this, but then drops the subject. For good. About a month later, their relationship has been growing stronger and closer. His friends invite him to a night of getting trashed and bar hopping. He thinks about it. He really likes the friends, but such an evening does not sound very appealing to him anymore. Also, he is well aware that the last time he found himself upon shaky ground. He tells his friends, "maybe next time." His girlfriend never even knows about the invite. ES. Without space, and without many opportunities for a person to CHOOSE how to behave or how to react, a relationship cannot grow. What HE did is one thing, but your extreme controlling can never actually work to control another person or to keep your heart safe. Never. As usual, I have to tell you that you need to address this part of YOURSELF if you EVER want to be ABLE to trust even the most trustworthy of people. If you want to work this out with your boyfriend, it could be done. But he will NEVER be able to be out of your line of sight for even 30 seconds unless you do something about your own trust issues. Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I Mme. Chaucer ES - please listen to her. She is speaking common sense here (and not for the first time either) Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 It still doesn't excuse the lying. Yes, I would have felt insecure that night. Absolutely, and now you admit this, the more people are writing to explain his actions, after initially saying 'I would have actually been cool with it'. But...you were lying earlier then! BUT I would commend him for doing the right thing. He lied to protect his own a$$. That's not cool. He didn't protect his own ass....he explained the details of the night to you the next morning. Dealing with something like this is going to be wayyy easier doing it face to face with someone like you, than a couple of txts. If he did mention it in a txt its likely he would have got one back from you saying I'm not happy hearing this, can you come home now with a frownie face. I agree with the others who say a couple of txts at most would have been sufficient, not numerous updates reporting back to the missus where + what he's doing throughout the night. He did lie and that was wrong. BUT given that his past behaviour in your relationship is pretty stellar, I think you should forgive him this time. From what I see, ES said he ran into his ex at a bar during the night. Not that he prearranged to meet her and the going out with his mates was a bogus cover. As denise said it’s an omission. Its not a lie. 'forgive this time' over an omission which was done to spare ES feelings during the night. Go out in the street and survey a 100 guys about this situation and see how many think what the guy did was wrong. This will tell you what % of men will be in your prospective dating pool when you start looking for a new one. Yup, this would bug me too. He's lied by omission to preserve his fun night out. The key words here are ‘to preserve his fun’. beyond consoling his heartbroken mate, that was the point of the night. Why ruin the night there and then, just postpone the inevitable drama for the next day.... or maybe he does not even mention it and avoid drama fullstop. If he didn’t agree to the continuous txt reports back to base, then this would not have happened. Link to post Share on other sites
Nexus One Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) I agree with you all. I do know he was scared of telling me cause I would freak. However, I don't see any future here because if he feels that he needs to lie to me then we have no relationship. How in the world am I going to trust him now? You put your phone away and stop to indirectly pressure him to send in real-time reports of what's going on at nearly every damn minute of his day. I'll give you this. For the sake of transparency in the relationship he should have told you on his own accord that he bumped into his ex, but I do understand his viewpoint too and everyone including you ES knows that he was right on that point. In my opinion you guys are even. You made a mistake, he made a mistake. You scared him into the viewpoint that it will freak you out if he provided you with said information and he failed to be completely transparent. So that's why I think you guys are even. You have to work on this point too ES, as you can see your extreme worrying and over-analyzing is doing damage, as it's skewing the way he decided to handle this issue. He in fact wanted to protect you from yourself, that doesn't make right what he did, but it is very much understandable given the way you react to (certain) things. You can't dump all the blame on him. Put your phone away, stop texting so much, just spend quality face to face time together, stop worrying so much, stop over-analyzing and enjoy your relationship, otherwise you're missing the point of it all. Edited June 25, 2011 by Nexus One Link to post Share on other sites
vsmini Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 He didn't want to put me through that so he decided to wait till he saw me to tell me. Well if he didn't want to put you through it then why did he go through with it in the first place by actually doing it? Control issues or not, right or wrong - that excuse he used is lame. Link to post Share on other sites
vsmini Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 BTW - from my own lessons learned - I don't date guys that still hang out with their ex's. Deal breaker for me. I know everyone, including myself gives you a hard time about how you toss men away - but hanging with an ex is a big no-no in my book. Doesn't mean the same thing has to be written in your book...but still. Link to post Share on other sites
thatone Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 In my opinion you guys are even. You made a mistake, he made a mistake. You scared him into the viewpoint that it will freak you out if he provided you with said information and he failed to be completely transparent. So that's why I think you guys are even. You have to work on this point too ES, as you can see your extreme worrying and over-analyzing is doing damage, as it's skewing the way he decided to handle this issue. He in fact wanted to protect you from yourself, that doesn't make right what he did, but it is very much understandable given the way you react to (certain) things. You can't dump all the blame on him. yeah they may be even in reality, but ES doesn't live in reality, she's about 100,000 yards up on top of an imaginary pedestal she has put herself on. she may have slipped off of it temporarily but we all knew she would jump back up there as soon as she had a good excuse to do so. Link to post Share on other sites
Chocolat Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Yes, they are all friends. He dumped HER and I am 100% he has no interest in her. I know he loves me. He offered to delete her off FB and never talk to her again. He cried. The issue is his dishonesty. I don't think I can stay in this relationship. Ok, then I stand by my original comments. He made a lie of omission but I don't think his intent was to deceive you but rather to help manage your reaction. I would feel differently if he had waited days or weeks before "confessing," but it's clear that he wanted to tell you right away but only didn't out of fear of your reaction. Now, I can see you are extrapolating and thinking, what if he meets someone new and doesn't want to be in the r/s with me, will he be afraid to tell me. I don't think it's an apt analogy. He was afraid here because he cares about you and wants to preserve the r/s. Rather than end things, why don't you discuss this situation with him? Tell him that he needs to tell you the truth about whatever is happening, regardless how he thinks you may react. At the same time, you have to give back to him by assuring him that you will take steps to not over-react or read the worst into every situation. Use this as an opportunity to learn and grow. It's really your first test in this r/s. He handled the night poorly. But he is not a deceitful person overall. If you decide to get married someday -- whether to this guy or to someone else -- there will be problems at times. More significant than the porblem (at least in this case) is how you handle them as a couple. If you bail every time things are not 100% perfect, you are really going to short-change yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Well if he didn't want to put you through it then why did he go through with it in the first place by actually doing it? Control issues or not, right or wrong - that excuse he used is lame. Totally agree. Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 BTW - from my own lessons learned - I don't date guys that still hang out with their ex's. Deal breaker for me. I know everyone, including myself gives you a hard time about how you toss men away - but hanging with an ex is a big no-no in my book. Doesn't mean the same thing has to be written in your book...but still. ES said that her boyfriend bumped into his ex by chance. However only recently she commented on how she had looked up her ex on FB/dating site (not sure which). One is accidental, the other is deliberate http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t282445/ Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 ES said that her boyfriend bumped into his ex by chance. BUT then he FOLLOWED HER to the next bar!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Fondue Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 ES said that her boyfriend bumped into his ex by chance. However only recently she commented on how she had looked up her ex on FB/dating site (not sure which). One is accidental, the other is deliberate http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t282445/ Oh yah! And I'm SUREEEEEEEEEEEEE she told him about it the following day... Link to post Share on other sites
ascendotum Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 ES said that her boyfriend bumped into his ex by chance. However only recently she commented on how she had looked up her ex on FB/dating site (not sure which). One is accidental, the other is deliberate http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t282445/ What was his reaction when you told him how you had been looking up ex's on dating sites or that you have been rummaging through his PC/mobile phone? Was he cool? You have been upfront and honest with him haven't you? Link to post Share on other sites
Fondue Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Seriously, people have to stop finding reasons to defend ES. She's the cause of her own issues. The guy she currently with is a saint. Link to post Share on other sites
RovingReporter Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 So he neglects to tell you something so as not to create drama(which it would have) but its ok to violate his trust and snoop through all his personal stuff? He should dump YOU. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 OP, I skimmed so apologies if I missed this tiny tidbit... I'll presume the BF's ex is female. Were her friends female as well? If so, so much for 'boy's night out'. Having spent most of my time in your other thread, I'll just briefly state that his lack of equity and support regarding your girls night out, combined with this issue, in my view leaves you and he somewhat incompatible. You're not seeing eye to eye on elementary relationship dynamics. You've had choices; he's had choices. This 'stuff' is the result. Either of you could have made different choices. I think the advice from others to spend some alone time working on yourself is good advice. I know, given your attractiveness to men, it's easy for you to jump from one relationship to another, so this will take effort and willpower. I hope you find the strength to implement whatever decision you make. Link to post Share on other sites
Movingthrough Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 He didn't tell you because of how you would react. You would have over reacted as you are doing now. If nothing happened between him and the ex, this quote above is why. Most guys dont want to deal with the backlash. If i was out and saw my ex yet nothing happened, then i would feel no need to tell my current partner...why? It can always get spun off into something else. Link to post Share on other sites
sm1tten Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I'll just briefly state that his lack of equity and support regarding your girls night out, combined with this issue, in my view leaves you and he somewhat incompatible. You're not seeing eye to eye on elementary relationship dynamics. You've had choices; he's had choices. This 'stuff' is the result. Either of you could have made different choices. Agreed. This sounds increasingly messy. You seriously don't sound compatible and it doesn't seem like either of you are particularly honest and forthright with each other - i.e. you telling him that it's okay for him to go out but really freaking out over it, him saying he's having a boy's night when it's really a mixed group that involves his ex. And then this double-standard regarding clubbing, (from both recent threads), eughh. Abort. Link to post Share on other sites
nyc_guy2003 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Ok, I just saw this thread after posting on the other thread that Eternal Sunshine started. I don't want to gloat over other people's misery and I don't want to break my arm patting myself on the back, but I really did call it on the other thread when I said that this guy sounds like he has some serious oats to sew. Someone who is constantly claiming that he is over other girls, does not look at other girls, does not want to have sex with other girls, only goes to clubs to hang out with dudes, only goes to strip joints to sample their exotic beers, etc. is obviously overcompensating for some sort of repressed sexual desire and a need to b@ng as many chicks as possible. Call me crazy or chalk it up to 30+ years of experience being male, but I know how the male mind works. If I was forced to wager money on this situation, I would bet that the guy has either already cheated or will cheat some time in the near future once Eternal Sunshine accuses him of cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
Lady vs Panda Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Wait wait wait wait. I wasn't really going to get involved, but before this thread goes crazy and people get hung up on the definition of "boy's night" and get ready to hang this bf and his group for ending up accidentally hanging out with some women, let me point out something that ES brings up herself in her other thread but I haven't seen mentioned here (but yeah I skimmed): ES was INVITED to go out with her bf and his friends last night, and she said she couldn't go because she had a work function. She was invited to go, so he never meant it to be some sacrosanct boys night. That's just a total red herring. Link to post Share on other sites
OliveOyl Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Why the heck did ES's BF even bother to "confess" at all when a)"Nothing happened" (which I believe) b) He KNOWS how insecure ES is. Why? Why? Why? It seems like a relationship death wish on his part. It's like a few weeks ago when he texted her "We need to talk." Only worse. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) OK, perhaps it was coed night out, though the OP never clarified that. BF does what he does, stays out late, gets more drunk than usual (OP's assessment) and tells her all about it today, coincidentally the same day as he is to meet her parents. He knows he's only the second man to meet her parents. Having been married, I know how this kind of stuff works. Wish I didn't but I do. BTW, here's the exact quote from the other thread regarding the situation: "Granted, he wanted to spend tonight with me but I have a work function. It just wouldn't kill him to spend one evening at home" Note: the OP never denied that he invited her to a 'boy's night out' (the title of the thread) but this quote says 'he wanted to spend <tonight> with me'. This can be read (and was by some) as an invitation to 'boys night out' and also can be read as 'couple time', whereupon, because of lacking her presence for a couples activity for them alone, either 'out' or 'in', he decided to join his friends alone for a boy's night out. My invitation, if the majority assumption is correct, would have been 'the boys and I are going out tonight for a few drinks and I'd love for you to join me'. To me, that's more clear and transparent. 'Will any other ladies be attending?' She might ask. I'd answer as appropriate. Bla, bla. OP, while your BF was out and texting you proactively, like about the friend he was consoling, did he mention anything about his friend's wives and girlfriends being there and that perhaps he was missing you? IOW, if you hadn't had a work commitment, would you have been in substantial female company or the only woman there? Edited June 26, 2011 by carhill fix quote text. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 did he mention anything about his friend's wives and girlfriends being there and that perhaps he was missing you? The females there were his ex and his ex's female friends. Link to post Share on other sites
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