He lied to me

[Art_Critic]

He didn't want to put me through that so he decided to wait till he saw me to tell me.

 

Coming in late on this thread and haven't read past the opening post but wanted to comment on this part.

 

I feel like that part I quoted is all he needed to know to know he shouldn't have been with the ex.

Once he realized how you would feel he should of just canceled on going anywhere with his friends.. period...

 

so he knew what he was doing was going to hurt you.. what a dumb ass...

[utterer of lies]

Yes, snooping can be seen as lying by omission. But it suggests insecurity and not trusting your partner. Having drinks with your ex and not mentioning it on the night even though you were texting your girlfriend at the time is different. It suggests possible intention to cheat. I don't feel that lie is a lie. Sure, lies are not great - but there are different degrees of lying and differing underlying motives. Killing someone and not telling your partner is a "lie by omission" - do you seriously think it is the same as the others?

 

No. Snooping is much worse. You snooped because of distrust, while he delayed telling you because of the many, many times you completely overreacted to some tiny little crap that happened or that you thought had.

 

 

It would be insane of him to text you "i met my ex", given your history.

 

 

Just be happy that he still wants to be with you, despite all your inappropriate behavior and completely insane demands on him.

 

 

This is not even intended to be inflammatory, but seriously, girl, you need some perspective.

[Art_Critic]

No, he didn't. He lied because he didn't want to deal with your highly unreasonable reactions to various issues of your relationship.

 

Unreasonable reactions isn't an excuse for a partner to lie and hurt the other..

He knows of her emotional make-up and accepts it by continuing to date her.

If he knows of it and and doesn't accept it by covering up where he is then he is the one in the wrong.. not her..

She is being open and honest about how she feels and he is lying to cover up his where abouts.. How is that her fault ?

 

Honestly if he can't accept her for who she is then he needs to break it off.. otherwise he is just using her.

[Art_Critic]

How do you know that he didn't? I mean that sincerely.

 

If he lied about simply seeing her AND FOLLOWING HER AND HANGING OUT WITH HER, why wouldn't he lie about something more serious? Like cheating?

 

Running into an ex isn't worth crying over, and yet he did. He feels reeeeeeeeally guilty, and I doubt it's just about seeing her.

 

On point post...

 

It think he was betting on meeting up with his ex taking a turn for the better..

Did it happen.. I guess how much contact ES had with him thruout the night might answer that...

[LittleTiger]

I have been cheated on in the past and it scarred me for life. Possible cheating lies are the ones that I am super sensitive to.

 

There is no sign of your bf intending to cheat from what you've said - and here you admit that you are scarred by past experience. It's not fair to expect your bf to tread on eggshells because you are damaged and treading on eggshells is what the poor guy seems to doing.

 

He didn't tell you about his ex at the time because he knew you'd cause a scene - I've never even met you and if I'd heard about this in advance I would have known you'd cause a scene - as would anybody who reads your LS threads. Once your bf's ex appeared in his field of vision he was in trouble - no matter what he said or didn't say, or when he did or didn't say it - no win situation for him.

 

The fact that you don't trust him is your issue, not his. Are you going to do the same to every man who comes along - accusing him of telling lies because he doesn't 'fess up' fast enough - while you're busy snooping into his privacy and never 'fessing up' at all?

 

BTW I called him back just now and we talked for few minutes. It's like we have nothing to say to each other anymore. There was just a huge distance between us - he said that he is so tired he barely made it through work (and I am too). Perhaps it's really time to call it quits.

 

This is no surprise whatsoever. You put him under the interrogational spotlight for 12 hours!!! I can't believe he actually stayed around to listen or participate - what an ordeal. He must be suffering from acute emotional exhaustion, never mind tired!

[denise_xo]

Unreasonable reactions isn't an excuse for a partner to lie and hurt the other..

He knows of her emotional make-up and accepts it by continuing to date her.

If he knows of it and and doesn't accept it by covering up where he is then he is the one in the wrong.. not her..

She is being open and honest about how she feels and he is lying to cover up his where abouts.. How is that her fault ?

 

Honestly if he can't accept her for who she is then he needs to break it off.. otherwise he is just using her.

 

I fully agree that he should break up with her, or as a very minimum stand his ground much more firmly than he has. But this situation has to be read in context and I stand by what I said that she has created this situation in the first place. Regardless of what we think about his choice of actions, she is completely down playing her own responsibility and her own omissions. She ISN'T being completely open and honest, because she is snooping behind his back and she has also admitted herself that she has told him that she is fine with certain things when, in fact, she isn't. I really see no place for her to play the victim game in this one.

[vsmini]

I don't know.

 

This episode has put a big dent in my feelings for him.

 

(not because he is a wimp) - because I feel like I can't trust him. There is no other way around it.

 

We also talked about kids. He doesn't want to have kids for the next 3-4 years. Ideally, I want them within the next 2 years.

 

I feel a lot of distance from my side right now. I don't think that he is "the one" or that we have long term future right now.

 

I am trying to decide what to do without being impulsive.

 

KIDS? do you want to raise these kids with a father in the picture?

Because if you do then you need to sort out these issues and that will most likely take more than two years. Raising kids while acting like this toward their father would just screw up their ideas of how relationships should be.

[Art_Critic]

My biggest concern is this. What does the guy have to do to earn your trust? Is it even within his power?

 

Maybe not.. but he stepped up to the plate and entered and continues to stay in the relationship and he should act like he is in a relationship with her rather than spending a night out with his ex and lying about it.

 

No doubt that she is putting him thru the paces and she is projecting her fears on him at times during the course of things but it still comes down to what he did.. not what she did..

 

What he did was unacceptable IMO for a man in a committed relationship since he knew his actions would hurt her.

[denise_xo]

Maybe not.. but he stepped up to the plate and entered and continues to stay in the relationship and he should act like he is in a relationship with her rather than spending a night out with his ex and lying about it.

 

No doubt that she is putting him thru the paces and she is projecting her fears on him at times during the course of things but it still comes down to what he did.. not what she did..

 

What he did was unacceptable IMO for a man in a committed relationship since he knew his actions would hurt her.

 

You need to re-read the thread properly. He didn't 'spend the night out with his ex'. He bumped into her while he was out with other people. What was he supposed to have done - gone home because she was there? The fact that 'something can hurt someone' isn't a good barometer for actions when people have irrational and unreasonable securities.

[Art_Critic]

You need to re-read the thread properly. He didn't 'spend the night out with his ex'.

 

Apologies is I missed something.. I was under the impression it was more than a bump into...

I bumped into a guy I went to high school with the other day at Home Depot.. the conversation lasted like 2 mins tops.. to me that is bumped into..

 

 

He showed me his phone and texts with the ex after they ran into each other and spent some time at the bar together with joint friends. Apparently, after he got home that night she texted him "It was good to run into you after all that time!" (she wouldn't have texted him this if they were ****ing then and there).

 

 

 

I would have actually been cool with it if he told me at the time. A lie so I wouldn't over-react is still a lie.

 

If he just had not lied, according to the OP she would have been cool with it..

[denise_xo]

Apologies is I missed something.. I was under the impression it was more than a bump into...

I bumped into a guy I went to high school with the other day at Home Depot.. the conversation lasted like 2 mins tops.. to me that is bumped into..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If he just had not lied, according to the OP she would have been cool with it..

 

Well, that is what I said: he bumped into her and spent time with her together with other people. Bumped into doesn't say anything about amount of time spent together. It indicates that you didn't arrange to meet up beforehand.

 

Based on previous experience that ES has posted, there is really nothing that would have indicated to me (and presumably not to the boyfriend) that she would have been cool with it had he actually told her. There is a quite a great deal of evidence to suggest that she would have freaked out, as far as I can see.

[Kamille]

Maybe not.. but he stepped up to the plate and entered and continues to stay in the relationship and he should act like he is in a relationship with her rather than spending a night out with his ex and lying about it.

 

 

 

 

I understand this point of view, however, I'm part of the group who considers he didn't actually lie. He told her about the run in and the consequent hanging out the morning after. I would have considered it a lie if she had to force the information out of him or otherwise find out through other means. He was, however, forthcoming with the information. And, personally, I would probably also prefer to divulge such information in person. Note, also, that ES has repeated several times in this thread that a) she's confident he is no longer interested in this ex and b) she claims she doesn't mind that they hung out. So really, by her own words, the issue is the time of the delivery of the information.

 

ES, I think you're still emotionally on guard and that you've invested this moment with a lot more drama than is necessary. A simple: "next time, I would prefer you tell me this kind of information as it happens" would have sufficed.

 

 

What he did was unacceptable IMO for a man in a committed relationship since he knew his actions would hurt her.

 

But she claims the fact they hung out isn't the issue. So the whole thing centers on when and how he delivered the information.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Kamille

[utterer of lies]

Based on previous experience that ES has posted, there is really nothing that would have indicated to me (and presumably not to the boyfriend) that she would have been cool with it had he actually told her. There is a quite a great deal of evidence to suggest that she would have freaked out, as far as I can see.

 

If he would have texted it, she would have broken up immediately, or would have shown up at the bar full of tears and rage.

 

Art critic, I do get your point, but if you have some time, try reading some of ES threads. Managing ES' drama is a full time job, and he seems to be quite adept at it. Normal rules do not apply.

[Mme. Chaucer]

ES - thank you for answering.

 

I'm not beating up on you, but I feel like reiterating here that if I had to choose between:

 

#!) A man who went out drinking & clubbing with his friends, ran into a group of other friends which included an ex of his and carried on partying with them and failed to text that to me that night - obscured it, in fact (blatantly dishonest) and then DID tell me the whole story, full of contrition, in person the next day,

 

and

 

#2) a man who snooped in my cell phone, my computer, my personal stuff, came to my coed events to "check up" and "keep tabs" on me,

 

I'd WITHOUT FAIL choose the former. No question. I believe that #1 was a "screw up" and can be an experience that is learned from and not repeated. There has been no evidence of a "pattern."

 

#2 is a toxic, controlling man. I was with a man like this and he ended up becoming violent and trying to keep me physically locked up in a house, and disabled my car. I'm not suggesting you will do these things, ES - but that's the same road you're completely comfortable and self righteous about traveling. You might want to REALLY do something about that.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Back to the crime of the bf:

 

All you people who are judging his ethics and claiming he is one step from cheating, etc;

 

Are you humans who make mistakes? Is it not really, really easy to identify with how this particular mistake was made?

 

The guy's been single for a long time. He is not used, at ALL, to being accountable to someone for his whereabouts and choices. Especially not someone who expects to be completely involved in his life hourly. But, he's trying his best to step up.

 

He's out clubbing, and he's drunk. He's still trying to be the good guy for ES by continuously texting her throughout. I'm imagining it's a loud scene, he's with a bunch of his guys, there's music, more booze.

 

His group amorphously merges with another group that includes his "ex." (I also might assume that the relationship with this "ex" was pretty minimal, since we've been told he's never had a serious relationship and only had sex with a couple of women). They all hang together in the rowdy atmosphere and it's decided on the spur of the moment to carry on to other clubs.

 

Bf is uneasy. Should he immediately, being a saint and all, tell his guy friends he has to go home now? He's drunk, he's having fun! He's still engaged in his never-ending texting with ES, and he maybe thought about mentioning that his ex and her friends had joined forces with his group - but he could not figure out how to broach it carefully enough to avoid an explosion. And, nothing was really happening that was "bad," after all - even though he knows, also, that there is something "nqr" about this situation and that ES is not going to be happy about it.

 

He'll deal with it tomorrow.

 

And he parties on.

 

Is this "bad," or does it speak to you of weak ethics? Not to me. I mean, he could have weak ethics. If stuff like this happens often, I would think so. But this just sounds like one of the pitfalls of being out drunk and clubbing with his friends. In my opinion, this guy is just now figuring out what "relationship ethics" actually are. He hasn't had any practical experience with such things.

 

Whether he and ES get through this (with his gonads still somewhat accessible to him) or not, I bet he makes sure not to get himself into such a pickle in the future. And NOT because ES tortured him over it for 12 hours (and it sounds as if the punishment continues). But, because it felt like crap and was not worth it.

 

P.S. Though I believe that guys and girls who are in couples SHOULD spend plenty of time with their other friends, I do not believe that the club scene is a very healthy place for this.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Mme. Chaucer

[leftfordead2]

This is like watching a serial drama, except that it is in text form...

[Woggle]

I am not beating you up because I struggle with trust issues myself but if you don't get a hold of this you will ruin any chance of having a healthy relationship. No healthy man is going to stick around for this.

[FeelingSmall]

I agree you should break up with him, not because he did wrong, but if you can't handle this, then forget about it. Small fries, bigger badder fights will come, work on the jealousy issues.

 

If I were in his shoes I wouldn't have said anything either. Then again, I have never been in a relationship where I needed to be tracked, or felt the need to track another. I have run into many people all over the city, I generally can't control that and am not going to run screaming for the door if an ex flame happens to be in the same coffee shop as me. Nor would I start chatting them up though.

[carhill]

I am not beating you up because I struggle with trust issues myself but if you don't get a hold of this you will ruin any chance of having a healthy relationship. No healthy man is going to stick around for this.

OP, go read Wog's thread on how he and his wife celebrated their fifth anniversary and be uplifted.

 

In life, anything is possible. You can make it happen, regardless of the obstacles in your way. Move them. Good luck

[BetheButterfly]

I understand this point of view, however, I'm part of the group who considers he didn't actually lie. He told her about the run in and the consequent hanging out the morning after. I would have considered it a lie if she had to force the information out of him or otherwise find out through other means. He was, however, forthcoming with the information. And, personally, I would probably also prefer to divulge such information in person. Note, also, that ES has repeated several times in this thread that a) she's confident he is no longer interested in this ex and b) she claims she doesn't mind that they hung out. So really, by her own words, the issue is the time of the delivery of the information.

 

ES, I think you're still emotionally on guard and that you've invested this moment with a lot more drama than is necessary. A simple: "next time, I would prefer you tell me this kind of information as it happens" would have sufficed.

 

 

I completely agree with the above.

 

ES, every relationship takes work. If you just rely on your feelings, no relationship will ever work.

 

If you really care for this man, truly love him (and not just consider love to be a mushy come and go feeling), then talk with him, try to understand his "side", and work things out.

[nyc_guy2003]

Sorry, but I think this dude's crying is a huge red flag. The only time I've really seen or heard of grown men crying outside of someone dying is when they feel guilty about something major, such as cheating. I think you're right to be snooping his text messages, and just because he showed you what he wrote to her doesn't mean he didn't delete other texts. If I were you I would ask for the login to his billing account to check if there were other texts sent on that night, not only to the ex but to other girls. If he can't hand over his entire life to you then this relationship is doomed to fail.

[Star Gazer]

You need to re-read the thread properly. He didn't 'spend the night out with his ex'. He bumped into her while he was out with other people.

 

Wrong. He bumped into her and then FOLLOWED HER TO ANOTHER BAR. That, us by definition, hanging out with her, and far more than chatting with her for a minute or two.

[Star Gazer]

On point post...

 

It think he was betting on meeting up with his ex taking a turn for the better..

Did it happen.. I guess how much contact ES had with him thruout the night might answer that...

 

How long does it take to kiss someone? Drunk, in a bar? That'd be cheating to me...

[Star Gazer]

I DO think ES's snooping is pretty bad too, BUT I highly doubt that it would upset him... At least, it wouldn't have upset him a week ago. He'd probably find it endearing and cute.

 

However, I also have no doubt that, knowing how insecure and irrational he is, he takes steps to delete anything that could even remotely me interpreted the wrong way.

[OliveOyl]

ES's BF did nothing wrong. He ran into an ex with a group of friends and chatted with her. Nowhere in my book is there anything wrong with that. Planning to meet up with an ex: not good. Being amicable when you happened to run into them: a non-issue.

 

And did he lie? I say no. So, the issue is about the timing? He DID tell ES, and he chose to tell her in person while sober instead of over text while drunk.

 

ES, you want to control the situation by getting absolutely instant feedback but even if he was able to give instant feedback then (with undoubtably similarly disastrous results) the point is you will never be able to control circumstances enough to get the security you think you need. He could have equally bumped into his ex (or anyone else 'threatening') at the supermarket, or at work, or through other daily activities. There is no way to control these things from happening. You need to get a handle on it now because it will never get easier unless you place a GPS tracker on him.

 

I thought the gal who was going to dump her BF over getting a lapdance at a bachelor party was overreacting. I can't even express how much the circumstances in this thread have been blown out of proportion.