Back here again....

[Crazy chick1]

I know I said I would not post again & I genuinely meant not to. However I need more advice & know some of you will try to advise as best you can.

 

I have gotten back into regular phone contact with MM & we met again yesterday. We ended up having a bit of a disagreement down a quiet lane, which was made worse because he was stressed as he had to get home as he was expecting a call from his W (who was away). I mentioned that I felt like a cheap tart, at which his mood went totally black, he pushed me up & held me against his car (not aggressively) & started shouting & swearing about how I was not a tart & anyone saying I was (including me) would have him to answer to. He was demanding that I get angry with him & telling me to hit him, saying he is messing me up & he hates what he's doing. Eventually after some more ranting & raving we took a walk holding hands & he eventually calmed down & stopped shaking. I know he was stressing because he was late home but he seemed to flip so quickly.

 

I guess my question is this: Is this type of behaviour common in the A set up or just down to his personality? I know it's a strange question but it just seemed a very dramatic way of acting.

[Emme]

STRESS... IT'S A COMBINATION OF EVERYTHING.

 

Oh yeah he's stressed alright and it might not just be just the affair, other factors. Were you afraid?

[Karmababe]

IMO, watch out ... they never understand when you tell them how you feel about the situation. He will stroke your ego to have you remain in the relationship .. the violent behavior is alarming.

[Emme]

.. the violent behavior is alarming.

 

Child I know! but it all depends on her psyche.

[Crazy chick1]

I wasn't afraid for one second but he just took me totally unawares. I know this is messing him up & isn't easy for him & he's agreed that he needs to stop bottling everything up. He has decided to confide in a friend & try to make sense of it all because he is only talking about the A to me at the moment (& I'm in it with him too deep & am too biased to give him good advice).

 

I have already started to tell him that I am struggling to cope with my role in his life, which I know could easily push him away but purely & simply I love him too much to play second fiddle. He has expressed that he was possibly too young when he married (19) & also that it would be so much simpler if his W sent him packing. But he does acknowledge that he is behaving like a total coward.

[Karmababe]

My experience? We have known eachother two years now ... he lives far away. I flew down to see him in April, after him begging me to do so. He will be moving closer to me, but he is still in the marriage. He says he has plans to exit, but I think for me the trust is gone. I doubt he will ever exit it, and I'm not interested in being 2nd string. He got really angry and said some really nasty things ... I have gone NC with him since.

[Emme]

Telling the friend is a bad idea. Go to a counselor or priest. No friend should be put into an affair situation. Just my opinion. I say he is stressed because he is falling for you and is now conflicted. Being pulled in every direction is hard. He just seems stressed more than anything. Pressures of life.

 

If you are having trouble coping with your position of being the OW what are you prepared to do. Are you planning to leave him? Are you asking him to choose?

[Crazy chick1]

Telling the friend is a bad idea. Go to a counselor or priest. No friend should be put into an affair situation. Just my opinion. I say he is stressed because he is falling for you and is now conflicted. Being pulled in every direction is hard. He just seems stressed more than anything. Pressures of life.

 

If you are having trouble coping with your position of being the OW what are you prepared to do. Are you planning to leave him? Are you asking him to choose?

 

He knows he has to choose - I'm just not cut out to be a long term OW. I understand his conflict. His W represents security, 30 years of his life, financial stability, peace within his family & yes, he wasn't unhappy before we got together, though he wasn't totally fulfilled & hadn't been for several years. I make him happy in other ways (& not just sexually as we often meet & don't have sex). He doesn't want to hurt either party & knows it is inevitable whichever path he chooses. He is scared of getting it wrong & yes, I accept that chances are strong that he will stay put as it is the easiest option. But I have my eyes wide open & much as I am petrified of losing him, the pain when he goes back to her is getting unbearable. I wish I'd known how hard this would become before we started this A. It really is torturous.

[Emme]

Mmmmm... What is the time frame of this relationship? Would you be the one willing to walk away since this is affecting him horribly? Since you already know the situation at hand could you do it.

[Karmababe]

You made a mistake, as have I ... the pain will be there if you stay and if you go. The uncertainty is worse ... the loneliness et al ... you deserve better than that, which I came to realize about myself. The marriage is between he and his wife ... you will heal, but being kept in purgatory is way worse.

[Karmababe]

This is a journey about yourself, be kind to yourself .. heal yourself ... the rest will surface as it generally does in life. If you opt to take a stand, then be proud of that too.

[Crazy chick1]

You made a mistake, as have I ... the pain will be there if you stay and if you go. The uncertainty is worse ... the loneliness et al ... you deserve better than that, which I came to realize about myself. The marriage is between he and his wife ... you will heal, but being kept in purgatory is way worse.

 

So, so true. What a mess this all is.

[MissBee]

Crazy...

 

This is such a mess.

 

Not one thing you have told me about your situation seems worthwhile. As a rule, I don't encourage affairs; however, I can understand some affair situations and why the benefits would seem to outweigh the risks. In your case though...I have no clue what is so great about this situation. ALL you do is complain about this man.

 

You're not happy, you're co-dependent. You have admitted all this yourself and have degraded yourself, calling yourself worthless and so on and saying you know you need to end things but yet you don't. It can be argued that even happy OW may not be as content as they seem; however, there is NO debate about whether or not you're unhappy.

 

Your unhappiness has nothing to do with this man Crazy. Believe me. How you talk about yourself, the fact that you admit that you will do whatever he wants (I think I can even find the thread where you said those exact words), the fact that you cannot seem to make any decision for yourself, the fact that you don't seem to even be able to make an executive decision for yourself about what is normal and respectful behavior towards you but need other people to tell you if actions you find uncomfortable are indeed normal shows you don't have the highest of self worth and self esteem. If that is the case, which it very much is, then this man is the LEAST of your worries as this entire situation seems to be symptomatic of a deeper issue.

 

Have you read that baggage reclaim site? I suggest you set a day aside or weekend where you leave MM alone and take care of yourself, read through the site and do some introspection about where you would like to go with your life and your self perception....as chasing this man around and feeling bad about yourself will be only to your detriment.

 

Take care.

[Crazy chick1]

Mmmmm... What is the time frame of this relationship? Would you be the one willing to walk away since this is affecting him horribly? Since you already know the situation at hand could you do it.

 

I can't manage a month more of this limbo situation. He needs to decide whether a fresh start is what he wants or the comfortable old slippers. I am actually quite worried about him though as he is obviously struggling to make sense of the situation. Everytime we speak he uses words like 'turmoil', 'conflict' & 'confusion' to describe his feelings. He has also mentioned that he feels as though he's so lonely & heading for a breakdown.

[Karmababe]

Ok, is he thinking of you when he returns to the home? If it is that bad, he will take action. You deserve and need to take care of yourself first. On the other side, if he opts to leave her for you .. are you ready for the repercussions of that?

[Emme]

I can't manage a month more of this limbo situation. He needs to decide whether a fresh start is what he wants or the comfortable old slippers. I am actually quite worried about him though as he is obviously struggling to make sense of the situation. Everytime we speak he uses words like 'turmoil', 'conflict' & 'confusion' to describe his feelings. He has also mentioned that he feels as though he's so lonely & heading for a breakdown.

 

You didn't answer the questions.

[BB07]

I 2nd this great post!

 

Crazy.......stop the crazy OK. Get off the madness train. You CAN do it!

 

Crazy...

 

This is such a mess.

 

Not one thing you have told me about your situation seems worthwhile. As a rule, I don't encourage affairs; however, I can understand some affair situations and why the benefits would seem to outweigh the risks. In your case though...I have no clue what is so great about this situation. ALL you do is complain about this man.

 

You're not happy, you're co-dependent. You have admitted all this yourself and have degraded yourself, calling yourself worthless and so on and saying you know you need to end things but yet you don't. It can be argued that even happy OW may not be as content as they seem; however, there is NO debate about whether or not you're unhappy.

 

Your unhappiness has nothing to do with this man Crazy. Believe me. How you talk about yourself, the fact that you admit that you will do whatever he wants (I think I can even find the thread where you said those exact words), the fact that you cannot seem to make any decision for yourself, the fact that you don't seem to even be able to make an executive decision for yourself about what is normal and respectful behavior towards you but need other people to tell you if actions you find uncomfortable are indeed normal shows you don't have the highest of self worth and self esteem. If that is the case, which it very much is, then this man is the LEAST of your worries as this entire situation seems to be symptomatic of a deeper issue.

 

Have you read that baggage reclaim site? I suggest you set a day aside or weekend where you leave MM alone and take care of yourself, read through the site and do some introspection about where you would like to go with your life and your self perception....as chasing this man around and feeling bad about yourself will be only to your detriment.

 

Take care.

[Crazy chick1]

You didn't answer the questions.

 

Ok, right I will ride it out for a couple more weeks before going NC til he can decide what he wants. I want to see if him talking to his friend clarifies things for him. It was asked whether I could deal with the fallout if we ended up together & I do realise it would be one big mess for several reasons but we're nowhere near that stage yet.....

 

Re other posts, I truly believe & accept we both have personal issues & are almost clinging to each other, yes we are co-dependent. He even said yesterday that we are addicted to each other. He also admitted to me that he lacks confidence, which I had begun to suspect. Those who don't know him well (& he doesn't get close to people easily) believe he is very confident, maybe even slightly arrogant. I have been abused physically & mentally in my past & though he tries his best & never deliberately hurts me, I admit that being hurt by a man feels normal to me (& I'm shocked to admit that to myself). He does make me feel special though & I can't doubt his feelings for me.

[MissBee]

Ok, right I will ride it out for a couple more weeks before going NC til he can decide what he wants. I want to see if him talking to his friend clarifies things for him. It was asked whether I could deal with the fallout if we ended up together & I do realise it would be one big mess for several reasons but we're nowhere near that stage yet.....

 

Re other posts, I truly believe & accept we both have personal issues & are almost clinging to each other, yes we are co-dependent. He even said yesterday that we are addicted to each other. He also admitted to me that he lacks confidence, which I had begun to suspect. Those who don't know him well (& he doesn't get close to people easily) believe he is very confident, maybe even slightly arrogant. I have been abused physically & mentally in my past & though he tries his best & never deliberately hurts me, I admit that being hurt by a man feels normal to me (& I'm shocked to admit that to myself). He does make me feel special though & I can't doubt his feelings for me.

 

I empathize and feel sympathy for you Crazy, as I know what it feels like to be involved in a comfortable but unhealthy scenario clinging to the small rays of "good", so scared to see it for what it is and venture out to do something different and unfamiliar.

 

A lot of your posts still divorce you from the picture and are so much more focused on him and what he thinks, wants, feels, does etc.

 

Neither of you are in a position to "help" each other. The more you stay together without first working on your issues solo...the more ridiculous and messy things will get. People don't spontaneously work through their issues in the midst of a comfortable but dysfunctional situation with each other.

 

It takes a separation and working on themselves, solo, before they can even begin to embark on a healthy relationship.

 

You admit overall that this entire situation is unhealthy and I'm sure you realize deep down that doing NC, him talking to his friends or whatever the case is will not fix anything. You all need to do the fixing of your own separate lives. Two drowning people are in no position to help each other but will perhaps expedite the drowning process.

 

I think you should probably see a therapist who will have face time with you and who will help you to work through these issues and give you some behavioral tools to cope and change your pattern. I have confidence in you that you do have what it takes to choose to leave him alone and work on yourself....you can't lose what is yours. If you guys are meant to be, only good will come of having a separation to work on yourselves.

[Crazy chick1]

Thankyou MissBee for your responses. You are obviously right. I should've gone NC weeks ago but instead ignored the advice on here & now find it even harder to do the 'right thing'. I am seeing an IC & finding it useful though it is still early days.

[fooled once]

I can't manage a month more of this limbo situation. He needs to decide whether a fresh start is what he wants or the comfortable old slippers. I am actually quite worried about him though as he is obviously struggling to make sense of the situation. Everytime we speak he uses words like 'turmoil', 'conflict' & 'confusion' to describe his feelings. He has also mentioned that he feels as though he's so lonely & heading for a breakdown.

 

Since he is just so stressed out by it all why don't you make the decision NOW to back off and let him ponder whether to remain in an affair or commit to his marriage? Do you feel you have to sit and let him decide to dump you because if you walk away he will just stay married? Do you feel a if you have to remain in his life, even tho he claims he is so so stressed because you don't want to let go cause you know deep in your heart he is going to stay married regardless? Are you believing that you mist remain in his life so he will choose you?

 

Why do you need yet another month of this game before you will have the self respect to say you are done? Why can't you decide for yourself? Why does he have to be the one to decide? Just like he wants his wife to kick him out..which just shows he is not in love with you. If he was, you would have left his marriage already.

 

I have a feeling you will stay with him, begging him to pick you and he will leave you shattered since you wrap your entire existence around him.

 

Make your own decision. Either embrace being the OW and accept that you will only be the mistress or respect yourself enough to walk away.

[Tenacity]

Your unhappiness has nothing to do with this man Crazy. Believe me. How you talk about yourself, the fact that you admit that you will do whatever he wants (I think I can even find the thread where you said those exact words), the fact that you cannot seem to make any decision for yourself, the fact that you don't seem to even be able to make an executive decision for yourself about what is normal and respectful behavior towards you but need other people to tell you if actions you find uncomfortable are indeed normal shows you don't have the highest of self worth and self esteem. If that is the case, which it very much is, then this man is the LEAST of your worries as this entire situation seems to be symptomatic of a deeper issue.

 

This is an excellent post.

 

CC1, I completely and totally know what you are going through. I went through EXACTLY the same thing, for over a year. I did the same things that you are doing. I feel so badly for you. I know it is horrible pain to go through this, but the pain of NC seems so much worse, so I totally understand your behavior.

 

You are addicted to this man, CC1. You need to break your addiction to him. You are almost at the point of rock bottom, where everything you do is about MM and what he wants and needs and every action that you take has to do with keeping him as part of your life.

 

You are not 'just friends' with this man. You are clinging to an emotional affair that has been created for you by the crumbs that he is throwing your way. Please, please don't throw away your pride and self-respect any further. I wish I could flip a switch and get you to see what is in store for you if you keep this up.

 

I used to tell myself that as well... "I'll just do this for a couple more weeks, then I'm DONE". That's because it's just too hard to break the addiction. Then, of course, when in two weeks things were not any better, I just found some other excuse to keep hanging on.

 

This man is NOT GOING TO LEAVE HIS WIFE and his life, or he would have already done so. Can you not see that? Can you not see that this "friendship" is just killing you slowly and not allowing you to have the life you deserve?

 

Can you not see that it has taken away your self-respect, your self-esteem, and everything that is YOU? You have to get that back, CC1, and the ONLY way is to get this man completely and permanently out of your life.

[Emme]

Ok, right I will ride it out for a couple more weeks before going NC til he can decide what he wants. I want to see if him talking to his friend clarifies things for him. It was asked whether I could deal with the fallout if we ended up together & I do realise it would be one big mess for several reasons but we're nowhere near that stage yet.....

 

 

I said end it, not NC. Would you be able to walk away. It might have to come to that. This man seems to be at his breaking point. Other posters seem to know your history and from what I'm reading you have a lot to do personally before you can deal with this relationship.

[MissBee]

This is an excellent post.

 

CC1, I completely and totally know what you are going through. I went through EXACTLY the same thing, for over a year. I did the same things that you are doing. I feel so badly for you. I know it is horrible pain to go through this, but the pain of NC seems so much worse, so I totally understand your behavior.

 

You are addicted to this man, CC1. You need to break your addiction to him. You are almost at the point of rock bottom, where everything you do is about MM and what he wants and needs and every action that you take has to do with keeping him as part of your life.

 

You are not 'just friends' with this man. You are clinging to an emotional affair that has been created for you by the crumbs that he is throwing your way. Please, please don't throw away your pride and self-respect any further. I wish I could flip a switch and get you to see what is in store for you if you keep this up.

 

I used to tell myself that as well... "I'll just do this for a couple more weeks, then I'm DONE". That's because it's just too hard to break the addiction. Then, of course, when in two weeks things were not any better, I just found some other excuse to keep hanging on.

 

This man is NOT GOING TO LEAVE HIS WIFE and his life, or he would have already done so. Can you not see that? Can you not see that this "friendship" is just killing you slowly and not allowing you to have the life you deserve?

 

Can you not see that it has taken away your self-respect, your self-esteem, and everything that is YOU? You have to get that back, CC1, and the ONLY way is to get this man completely and permanently out of your life.

 

Indeeed!

 

I can so relate to that as well....and CC is biding time by saying well hopefully his friend talks some sense into him or hopefully NC will get some sense into him and her entire existence is about this man and what he will and won't do. It's very self depreciating especially since none of those things will cause him to do anything differently and not only that, but even if he ran off and left the wife, it doesn't negate the fact that she has self work to do and so does he, so a healthy relationship would not be possible anyway. When you're addicted to someone, to ignore a void within yourself, you cling for dear life and preoccupy yourselves with them so that you never have to actually fix yourself...which is what CC is doing.I did that for a while as well with my ex, I analyzed him to the very last cell in his body and tried to figure out his issues, and when he would finally "see the light" and I spent an inordinate amount of time worrying about his every move and when was he gonna do this or that and whatever else. It was so insane as I made everything about him and handed over my power to him instead of saying "Welll...lovely for you but I'm going to do this...and that's that. What you choose to do is on you but this is MY choice as the sole proprietor of MY life."

 

 

CC...I encourage you to go out this weekend to the nearest bookstore and purchase the book "Loving Him Without Losing You" by Beverly Engels...it discusses "the disappearing woman", which is a common phenomena of women who may be accomplished and sensible otherwise but when it comes to relationships they lose their entire selves and merge with this man to the point of even self harm. You are definitely a disappearing woman, many women are, but the book also discusses the levels of disappearing and provides help and resources for the level you're at.

Edited June 25, 2011 by MissBee

[Tenacity]

Indeeed!

 

I can so relate to that as well....and CC is biding time by saying well hopefully his friend talks some sense into him or hopefully NC will get some sense into him and her entire existence is about this man and what he will and won't do. It's very self depreciating especially since none of those things will cause him to do anything differently and not only that, but even if he ran off and left the wife, it doesn't negate the fact that she has self work to do and so does he, so a healthy relationship would not be possible anyway. When you're addicted to someone, to ignore a void within yourself, you cling for dear life and preoccupy yourselves with them so that you never have to actually fix yourself...which is what CC is doing.I did that for a while as well with my ex, I analyzed him to the very last cell in his body and tried to figure out his issues, and when he would finally "see the light" and I spent an inordinate amount of time worrying about his every move and when was he gonna do this or that and whatever else. It was so insane as I made everything about him and handed over my power to him instead of saying "Welll...lovely for you but I'm going to do this...and that's that. What you choose to do is on you but this is MY choice as the sole proprietor of MY life."

 

 

CC...I encourage you to go out this weekend to the nearest bookstore and purchase the book "Loving Him Without Losing You" by Beverly Engels...it discusses "the disappearing woman", which is a common phenomena of women who may be accomplished and sensible otherwise but when it comes to relationships she loses her entire self and merges with this man to the point of even self harm. You are definitely a disappearing woman, many women are, but the book also discusses the levels of disappearing and provides help and resources for the level you're at.

 

I will have to check out that book. I have seen that book recommended before on this forum.

 

Here are two books that really helped me, CC1. "How to Break Your Addiction to a Person" by Howard Halpern. And "Obsessive Love: When it Hurts Too Much to Let Go" by Susan Forward. Both of these books are filled with case examples. You will be absolutely SHOCKED to see yourself, over and over, on these pages. I was.