Back here again....

[whichwayisup]

I know I said I would not post again & I genuinely meant not to. However I need more advice & know some of you will try to advise as best you can.

 

I have gotten back into regular phone contact with MM & we met again yesterday. We ended up having a bit of a disagreement down a quiet lane, which was made worse because he was stressed as he had to get home as he was expecting a call from his W (who was away). I mentioned that I felt like a cheap tart, at which his mood went totally black, he pushed me up & held me against his car (not aggressively) & started shouting & swearing about how I was not a tart & anyone saying I was (including me) would have him to answer to. He was demanding that I get angry with him & telling me to hit him, saying he is messing me up & he hates what he's doing. Eventually after some more ranting & raving we took a walk holding hands & he eventually calmed down & stopped shaking. I know he was stressing because he was late home but he seemed to flip so quickly.

 

I guess my question is this: Is this type of behaviour common in the A set up or just down to his personality? I know it's a strange question but it just seemed a very dramatic way of acting.

 

He's a piece of work. If he had an ounce of respect and care for you, he wouldn't put you in the position he's put you in. He would not keep you in his life, until he divorced then he would come for you.. This guy has you pegged and knows exactly what to say to you and manipulate you (in a self serving way) so you will stay in his life, on a tiny thread...

 

He STILL isn't leaving his wife and divorcing her so that STILL makes you the OW.

 

CC, either accept your role in his life as the OW, be happy with the time he does give you OR get strong and END IT!

[whichwayisup]

Thankyou MissBee for your responses. You are obviously right. I should've gone NC weeks ago but instead ignored the advice on here & now find it even harder to do the 'right thing'. I am seeing an IC & finding it useful though it is still early days.

 

This makes me smile because your therapist will help you see that the situation you've chosen to be in, is just so unhealthy and will do such damage to you, make you cry, hurt, lose weight, not sleep, be sad, and stay in pain.

 

I KNOW you can find it in you to end it and walk away so you can truly begin your healing process. I have to have faith for you! Anytime you feel weak, feel like caving and contacting him .. POST HERE and ask for help.

 

Noone wants to see you continue on this rollercoaster ride, even more so since your MM is f..cking with your head. Not malciously, but selfishly.

[alexandria35]

I know I said I would not post again & I genuinely meant not to. However I need more advice & know some of you will try to advise as best you can.

 

I have gotten back into regular phone contact with MM & we met again yesterday. We ended up having a bit of a disagreement down a quiet lane, which was made worse because he was stressed as he had to get home as he was expecting a call from his W (who was away). I mentioned that I felt like a cheap tart, at which his mood went totally black, he pushed me up & held me against his car (not aggressively) & started shouting & swearing about how I was not a tart & anyone saying I was (including me) would have him to answer to. He was demanding that I get angry with him & telling me to hit him, saying he is messing me up & he hates what he's doing. Eventually after some more ranting & raving we took a walk holding hands & he eventually calmed down & stopped shaking. I know he was stressing because he was late home but he seemed to flip so quickly.

 

I guess my question is this: Is this type of behaviour common in the A set up or just down to his personality? I know it's a strange question but it just seemed a very dramatic way of acting.

 

Geez..this guy sounds like a real drama queen. If he really cared about you feeling like a cheap tart he would do something about it, such as leaving his wife or ending the affair. Instead he puts on this big show of over the top hysterics to make you believe that he actually cares about anyone but himself and you fall for it. His little displays of emotion are cheap and mean nothing. If he was truly concerned for you he wouldn't be dragging you through this, he would take action. Of course you have the option of ending the affair too, so it seems that neither of you really care about you feel.

 

As to your question "Is this type of behaviour common in the A set up or just down to his personality"? I would say just the fact that he is in this situation and continuing to drag it out says an awful lot about his personality.

[Crazy chick1]

Wow! Thankyou all so much for the advice & kind words. It is interesting also how different posters have such opposing views, but I think you all make valid points.

 

After I spoke with him last night I cried because I knew he was spending the evening with his W & we had just had a very difficult conversation where I knew subconsciously I was pushing him away (& who wants an OW that gets you down lol). There were so many other things I wanted to say but I ran out of time & had to leave it. We will be talking again this morning & I don't know how it will go but know we can't carry on like this.

 

He says he respects me so much but know that even if he does (which seems unlikely), he will eventually lose that respect because of my desperation (he is also desperate & needy but because he is the one in the M, it feels as though he has the power).

 

I know I ramble & please feel free to ignore me, but it does help me to write it down then read it back to myself.

[jj33]

CC the sentiment he expressed is normal. The way he expressed it is a huge red flag. I would think back to whether you have ever seen him behave aggressively like this in hte past. If so, be glad you arent his wife and run dont walk.

 

Dont be confused into thinking it was romantic that he feels so strongly about the situation that he became physically aggressive and started to shake. Its not romantic when a man has a strong emotional reaction and expresses it by becoming physically agressive.

[whichwayisup]

You two are in a relationship. He is no more going to think you are "desperate and needy" or not want you because you "get him down" than a single guy whom you were in a relationship with would. Probably less since he knows he's not doing you right.

 

Stop giving away your power to him. He's most likely crazy about you since he can't keep away from you. An OW doesn't have to be a special way to make the MM stay with her. The MM will just because he loves her.

 

Have you actually read her threads? This guy loves noone but HIMSELF!

[Crazy chick1]

Have you actually read her threads? This guy loves noone but HIMSELF!

 

I think this is harsh WWiU. I agree he is selfish (but then again most people are), but he is suffering for his actions. Or he is a fantastic play actor.

[bentnotbroken]

I think this is harsh WWiU. I agree he is selfish (but then again most people are), but he is suffering for his actions. Or he is a fantastic play actor.

 

 

WWIU is right. If the truth is harsh maybe you should pay attention.

[whichwayisup]

How is it harsh? This guy cheats on his wife, gets busted, pretends that the A is over, lies to his wife, tells her he isn't talking or seeing you anymore. We all know that's not true. Then, he tells you he's wanting to fix his marriage, doesn't want to divorce or leave his wife, yet he keeps contacting you, wants to have you in his life. Explain to me how this is best for you and best for his wife? It is best for HIM.

If he TRULY loved either of you, he would make a decision and stick to it, one way or another. He would seek counselling to help him with this.

 

He IS only thinking of himself. Not malciously but selfishly and when people do this kind of stuff it means they put themselves first, above everybody else! This is why I said he loves himself most. Again, how is that harsh? It's true.

[TurboGirl]

Crazychick, the longer you allow this "friendship" to continue the lower your self esteem is going to sink. Maybe you don't understand what I mean by that, or even feel that is happening. By allowing yourself to BE in this situation, repeatedly, going back again for more, still staying in contact as a "friend" IMHO indicates your self esteem is not where it needs to be!

 

Please find some inner strength and love yourself enough to get out & STAY OUT of this "friendship" with a MM. He's not going to leave his wife for you. He would have done so by this point. This guy waffles in the wind like a flag in the breeze. That bit about pushing you against the car is pretty scary (but did YOU find that exciting and proof that he loves you? Damn I hope NOT!!!).

 

Stop the madness. No man is worth all of this you are putting yourself through.

[Crazy chick1]

I take on board what you're saying WWiU. It does appear that he is in the process of making a choice, not necessarily because he wants to but because I am not coping with the current situation. He has acknowledged that I need a R not an A & it is so much harder to keep in touch this time because of his W's suspicions. Things will come to a head sooner rather than later.

 

Trouble is his words are totally contradictory eg he will say that he has been doing things to his house & enjoyed doing them but will then say on another occasion that he ought to move out & get a place by himself. Makes no sense.

 

I know he will choose to stay where he is & I am dreading dealing with the raw pain again.

[Crazy chick1]

Crazychick, the longer you allow this "friendship" to continue the lower your self esteem is going to sink. Maybe you don't understand what I mean by that, or even feel that is happening. By allowing yourself to BE in this situation, repeatedly, going back again for more, still staying in contact as a "friend" IMHO indicates your self esteem is not where it needs to be!

 

Please find some inner strength and love yourself enough to get out & STAY OUT of this "friendship" with a MM. He's not going to leave his wife for you. He would have done so by this point. This guy waffles in the wind like a flag in the breeze. That bit about pushing you against the car is pretty scary (but did YOU find that exciting and proof that he loves you? Damn I hope NOT!!!).

 

Stop the madness. No man is worth all of this you are putting yourself through.

 

I admit it's not a friendship or even an EA anymore. We have resumed the PA. I think he wants out though & that he regrets getting back into it.

[MissBee]

How is it harsh? This guy cheats on his wife, gets busted, pretends that the A is over, lies to his wife, tells her he isn't talking or seeing you anymore. We all know that's not true. Then, he tells you he's wanting to fix his marriage, doesn't want to divorce or leave his wife, yet he keeps contacting you, wants to have you in his life. Explain to me how this is best for you and best for his wife? It is best for HIM.

If he TRULY loved either of you, he would make a decision and stick to it, one way or another. He would seek counselling to help him with this.

 

He IS only thinking of himself. Not malciously but selfishly and when people do this kind of stuff it means they put themselves first, above everybody else! This is why I said he loves himself most. Again, how is that harsh? It's true.

 

Ditto.

 

I think often times in relationships in general we excuse a world of ill because the person "didn't mean it" or "He's not bad...he's just stressed/tired/human/etc". Sure enough no one is perfect and sure enough it is not about cutting people off on a 1st transgression, it's about realizing an accumulation of unacceptable behavior as well as realizing that malicious or not, someone is not doing right by you...and if they can't for WHATEVER reason, you don't need to sit around waiting until they can.

 

I'm sure CC's MM is not sitting around masterminding how to hurt her or his wife...he is much too much of a mess it seems to be able to even do that, but nonetheless he is very him-focused, as people with issues often are and often need to be but so they can do something about it! He's not doing it maliciously...but he's still doing it and if CC comes back 3 months from now and tells me things are better and have changed...I will be shocked!

[Karmababe]

He is making the choice here ... he is with his wife and stressed because you are voicing your concerns and feelings. He is afraid ... normal men do not put women like you or his wife in this kind of situation. When it starts to crumble, expect that he will ramp it up, get angry (which you have already seen), and also know he may have other women on the side. He needs to deal with his marriage, you need to deal with your sanity and self-esteem. As I told mine two months ago "you're not being fair to me or your wife". I found in the past two months, pride in myself for ending it and the beginnings of new and more healthy relationships with unmarried men. The good ones are still out there, don't sell yourself short.

[Crazy chick1]

He is making the choice here ... he is with his wife and stressed because you are voicing your concerns and feelings. He is afraid ... normal men do not put women like you or his wife in this kind of situation. When it starts to crumble, expect that he will ramp it up, get angry (which you have already seen), and also know he may have other women on the side. He needs to deal with his marriage, you need to deal with your sanity and self-esteem. As I told mine two months ago "you're not being fair to me or your wife". I found in the past two months, pride in myself for ending it and the beginnings of new and more healthy relationships with unmarried men. The good ones are still out there, don't sell yourself short.

 

Can I ask what you mean by 'ramp it up'?

 

Call me naive but I am absolutely certain that there is no OOW. Sometimes I accept posters are correct in their analyses (even if I don't like what they say). But definitely not on this issue.

[Karmababe]

Think for a minute ... if he'd cheat on his wife, needs his ego stroked continuously .. is this the man you want in your life? My situation, he ended screaming at me because I was seeing another man .. like he owned me. I'm single, he is not .. I can see anyone I please. He called me at work at verbally abused me to tears on this.

[Karmababe]

BTW ... if you're gone, he will find another ... that's what they do.

[MissBee]

Can I ask what you mean by 'ramp it up'?

Call me naive but I am absolutely certain that there is no OOW. Sometimes I accept posters are correct in their analyses (even if I don't like what they say). But definitely not on this issue.

 

Does it matter?

 

Even if he doesn't have an OOW...the rest of the situation is still a mess...

 

I don't think it really warrants thanking God for small mercies like that.

[Karmababe]

I'm just saying ... if he is lying to his wife and abandoning you .. what else is this guy capable of?

[fooled once]

You two are in a relationship. He is no more going to think you are "desperate and needy" or not want you because you "get him down" than a single guy whom you were in a relationship with would. Probably less since he knows he's not doing you right.

 

Stop giving away your power to him. He's most likely crazy about you since he can't keep away from you. An OW doesn't have to be a special way to make the MM stay with her. The MM will just because he loves her.

 

Huh? If he allegedly knows he isn't doing right by her, as you claim, why does he continue? I know, because he is a cake eating selfish *ss. Crazy about her? Are you kidding? he doesn't care about her; he cares about HIM. His needs, his wants. NO MAN who is 'crazy' about a woman goes home to his wife night after night. Can't stay away from her? OMG, he LOVES getting the ego stroked by her and the sex. That doesn't equal love. LOVE is not selfish. LOVE is wanting to be with that person, not have an affair. If he loves her and is so crazy about her, again like you claim, why hasn't he ended his marriage???

 

CC the sentiment he expressed is normal. The way he expressed it is a huge red flag. I would think back to whether you have ever seen him behave aggressively like this in hte past. If so, be glad you arent his wife and run dont walk.

 

Dont be confused into thinking it was romantic that he feels so strongly about the situation that he became physically aggressive and started to shake. Its not romantic when a man has a strong emotional reaction and expresses it by becoming physically agressive.

 

Great post.

 

Have you actually read her threads? This guy loves noone but HIMSELF!

 

Agree!

 

I think this is harsh WWiU. I agree he is selfish (but then again most people are), but he is suffering for his actions. Or he is a fantastic play actor.

 

How is this harsh? He is selfish. He is using you and you are allowing it. He isn't suffering as you like to think. He has 2 women to sleep with, 2 women who meet his needs. He has his wife for safety, security, love, the past, the future, etc. He has you for sneaky sex. How is he suffering for his actions? By grabbing you and throwing you up against a car? Do you think that is sexy or NORMAL? It isn't.

 

Why are you so willing to do anything for this guy? Please please - see a counselor. Not sure why you are so desperate to keep this guy - this guy who has a wife. He isn't going to one day wake up and see you and decide he can't live without you. Heck, you won't even give that a chance...you are constantly there for him at his beck and call. Isn't that exhausting to be continually meeting his needs while yours aren't met at all? This guy has the life - and he is making a fool out of you

[Crazy chick1]

I feel like I'm going mad, if I'm not there already.... The A before D day was nothing like this & I don't get it. He seems different, more frustrated, more confused, more controlling & more angry. It's like I'm seeing a whole different side to him. We are meant to be talking tomorrow, but every time we speak it's almost a battle to keep the conversation light, because we just keep getting dragged into the heavy stuff & getting nowhere. Then the call ends & I feel despair again. I convince myself that he is going to end the A but then he doesn't. We talk but I come away from the conversation with no answers.

 

I am starting to become tempted to throw him under the bus & let his W know what has been going on. I cannot even believe he restarted the A with the knowledge that I contacted her after D day last time & caused so much damage to their M, by disclosing so much information regards the things we spoke of & places we went etc. It makes zero sense to me to take that kind of risk again, surely the normal thing to do would be to keep well away? It's like he's handed me a loaded gun & I do now wonder if this is the reason he continues in the A at this stage, like an unspoken blackmail (the very idea horrifies me BTW). I also know that if I did this he wouldn't come back to me (maybe only way to break the addiction) but would also cause massive & probably permanent harm to his M. To use his words my head is totally f****d up.

[Mimolicious]

I know I said I would not post again & I genuinely meant not to. However I need more advice & know some of you will try to advise as best you can.

 

I have gotten back into regular phone contact with MM & we met again yesterday. We ended up having a bit of a disagreement down a quiet lane, which was made worse because he was stressed as he had to get home as he was expecting a call from his W (who was away). I mentioned that I felt like a cheap tart, at which his mood went totally black, he pushed me up & held me against his car (not aggressively) & started shouting & swearing about how I was not a tart & anyone saying I was (including me) would have him to answer to. He was demanding that I get angry with him & telling me to hit him, saying he is messing me up & he hates what he's doing. Eventually after some more ranting & raving we took a walk holding hands & he eventually calmed down & stopped shaking. I know he was stressing because he was late home but he seemed to flip so quickly.

 

I guess my question is this: Is this type of behaviour common in the A set up or just down to his personality? I know it's a strange question but it just seemed a very dramatic way of acting.

 

He's just a hopeless romantic. How sweet!

 

(facepalm) this is def toxic and a train-wreck! He's probably bipolar or has anger issues. Def doesn't sound like someone who is well balances. One day he'll end up giving you lights out.

[Crazy chick1]

Why don't I end the A?

 

Mainly because I know how much it will hurt & having to face up to NC again will take so much strength & I just don't know where that strength is going to come from. I hate myself so much right now & I am so afraid.

[Mimolicious]

Why don't I end the A?

 

Mainly because I know how much it will hurt & having to face up to NC again will take so much strength & I just don't know where that strength is going to come from. I hate myself so much right now & I am so afraid.

 

 

And unfortunately, you'll hurt more by insisting in being in a "R" with someone who treats you, from the sounds of it, like dirt! You are only being weakend by this fool... you are already strong. Get it together!

[jj33]

Why don't I end the A?

 

Mainly because I know how much it will hurt & having to face up to NC again will take so much strength & I just don't know where that strength is going to come from. I hate myself so much right now & I am so afraid.

 

This is the problem. You are punishing yourself by staying with a guy who isnt good for you. The biggest problem isnt that hes married. The problem is that he is him and he is clearly a guy with a lot of issues. He wouldnt be a good choice if he were single unless he dealt with those issues first.

 

Part of the reason you hate yourself now is that you know you chose the wrong guy. He isnt who you thought he was.

 

Being with someone like him is always going to hurt more than NC. When you are ready to see him and his behavior for what it is, and accept that the future you had mapped out in your mind cant happen even if he is not married, you will walk away.

 

Its tough but you can do this