An affair is never what you think it is (from a BS/WS/OM)

[marriagemalpractice]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Some quick history: About a year ago I found out my wife was having an EA/PA. Went through the ups and downs, counseling, etc. She spent this last year doing the yo-yo (would go back to him, come back to me and promise to change, go back to him etc etc). He finally got sick of it and dumped her, and now she is back "fully committed to working on our marriage". (And pigs fly out my butt every night). In the mean time, a girl I work with discovered what was happening and confided in me that her husband is cheating on her. Long story short, she and I have been having an EA the last four months. Came close to PA a while back, but somehow didn't happen (thankfully I think). So that makes me a BS, WS, and OM.

 

Just wanted to post my perspective on something based on some threads I've been reading recently. AS AN OM/OW AN AFFAIR IS NEVER WHAT YOU THINK IT IS. I've noticed over time that the worse things are with her hubby, the more my AP is into me and vice versa. We'll be talking and spending time together, then suddenly she'll disappear for a couple of weeks. Then suddenly, out of the blue, she'll call begging to spend time together.... and what do you know, she and her husband just had another fight or she discovered more infidelity on his part that afternoon. The point being, I AM HER ESCAPE.... and if I'm being honest, SHE IS MINE TOO. A married person will use the OM/OW for validation, sex, great feelings, whatever - but at the end of the day it is an escape, a fantasy.

 

I've ready plenty of posts from OM/OW talking about how their MM/MW loves them, has sex only with them, doesn't care about their spouse, etc. Oh yeah, how do you know? Do you spy on your MM/MW, look in their windows at all hours of the day and night, hack their email? You have no clue what really goes on in the confines of their home, in their marriage, with the partner they spend more time with than you. Case in point, when I discovered my wife's affair, we both flipped out and engaged in "hysterical bonding". We were having sex every day, sometimes 3, 4, 5 times a day, in every place and position imaginable. Prior to that we were still fairly sexually active as she was worried that suddenly withholding would make me suspicious. And as emotional as this whole last year has been, she and I have probably had more sex than we did in the last 5 years of our marriage combined. So imagine how surprising/amusing I found it when I discovered from her now xOM that he really believed he was her one and only, that she wasn't having sex with me or even being affectionate with me anymore, and that she and I were basically just roommates - just living together for financial convenience. He was in shock, felt like he had been duped. Well duh, dude, if she's going to lie to her spouse - the guy she promised her life to and shares a home, a bed, and children with - what on earth makes you think she won't lie to you?

 

Do you think I've told my AP that my wife and I still have sex regularly? Of course not, it would ruin our illusion. Knowing my AP, she and her hubby are probably still quite frisky, but do you think she tells me about it? No way. I only hear about how much her husband sucks, and she only hears about how awful my wife has been to me. Then we console each other and talk about how much better things would have been if we had just found each other in the first place. Poor us, two tortured souls who were meant to be together instead of with our cheating spouses, but who are both too scared to take it to the next level and actually sleep together or heck, even kiss.

 

Yeah, pretty messed up. I need counseling, and I think I need to end my own affair. It's just dumb, childish, and degrading to myself. I won't lie, it's kinda fun that my wife has no idea that while she's gone out sneaking around with her OM, I've been here with my OW. But still, it's just dumb. At the end of the day it's just fantasy on fantasy on fantasy. Lie upon lie upon lie. Anyway, moral of the story: AN AFFAIR IS NEVER WHAT YOU THINK IT IS. IF THEY CAN LIE TO THEIR SPOUSE, THEY CAN LIE TO YOU. Just because your MM/MW tells you they are only with you, don't buy it. My wife's xOM gets that now.

[Tenacity]

Yes, that is all true.

 

But what are you going to do about your situation?

 

You need to get out of your A, and out of your marriage. Do you not see that?

[whichwayisup]

Yes, that is all true.

 

But what are you going to do about your situation?

 

You need to get out of your A, and out of your marriage. Do you not see that?

 

Yup. My thoughts exactly. It IS messed up and down the line you and your wife are going to have some serious trust issues to deal with. BOTH of you have been lying (quite well I bet) and manipulating ,deceiving and that ruins the foundation of a marriage.

 

You are married and both you and your wife are having affairs. Why not just come clean and have an open marriage or divorce?

[MissBee]

Insightful post...

 

Well all things I knew already but maybe for some others, it will ring truer coming from a MM having an affair versus someone they feel is just "jealous/bitter/loves to generalize and is trying to ruin their happiness"

 

Anyway, you admit you need counseling. You should get it. You know your wife is cheating, she doesn't know you're cheating, you know your affair is an illusion...so where do you want to go?

 

Continue the charade or work things out with wifey?

[chalkfarm]

Does your MOW know that you two are just shooting the sh** together? Have you actually TOLD her you are lying to her? You are clearly aware of your lying is SHE? Are you assuming she knows the rules?

 

There is another poster here who can't figure out why his now divorced OW wants all or nothing from him. She divorced with the assumption that her MM was going to do the same. She is rightly hurt. Is your MW headed down the same path?????

 

I really want to throw a gigantic HOW DARE YOU in here but I'll wait to hear the answers of your revenge affair.

[chalkfarm]

Insightful post...

 

Well all things I knew already but maybe for some others, it will ring truer coming from a MM having an affair versus someone they feel is just "jealous/bitter/loves to generalize and is trying to ruin their happiness"

 

Anyway, you admit you need counseling. You should get it. You know your wife is cheating, she doesn't know you're cheating, you know your affair is an illusion...so where do you want to go?

 

Continue the charade or work things out with wifey?

Insightful? Who wouldn't appear "insightful" when they see all sides of a situation?

 

He appears far from deeply intuitive where his OW is concerned. She comes back when she has had a fight. So what? He just knows the ropes.

[MissBee]

Insightful? Who wouldn't appear "insightful" when they see all sides of a situation?

 

He appears far from deeply intuitive where his OW is concerned. She comes back when she has had a fight. So what? He just knows the ropes.

 

I wasn't claiming that he was deeply intuitive ...I think his post provides insight into the mind of a MM cheating (knowing the ropes as you rightfully said)...that's all.

[marriagemalpractice]

Thanks for the replies/ butt kicking. I know it's all messed up and that I'm messed up, that's a big part of the reason I finally posted. Preaching to myself more than to anyone else.

 

Anyway, I'm done living in the shadows. I just finished a two hour conversation with my wife - came clean about everything. She's upset, but actually took it much, much better than I thought she would (though we'll see how things look once it's set in). I feel pretty relieved, but at the same time am not looking forward to telling the OW tomorrow that we need to end this charade.

 

Wife and I agreed that right now we just need to start by figuring out if we even want to be married to each other anymore. This means counseling and total honesty with no other players in the game, no secrets, no having our cake and eating it too. So the plan is to go to counseling and start fleshing this all out. Seems at the moment that both of us feel some desire to do the hard work and restore the marriage, and some desire to just divorce and get a fresh start. We're both very confused, but I think we both agree that we need to figure this out honestly and stop playing childish games. She also actually apologized to me for her affair, which I think is the first time she's ever really done that. Kinda shocking, I really thought she'd lop my head off.

 

BTW - to answer chalkfarm's question, I don't think OMW thinks we're doing much more than shooting the ****. She's told me numerous times she wishes her husband would get his head out of his hindparts and work on their marriage. She's been quite clear she'd choose him if he'd have her. I think she enjoys having me around in the mean time since I "understand" her.... but I guess I'll find out for sure tomorrow what she was thinking. Why on earth did I get myself into this mess. Perhaps I'll update tomorrow after I talk to her.

[Loni]

Even stevens then. Tit for tat. All is well and let's go home and make happy! She cheated, you cheated. Congratulations, you just lost your leg to stand on.

[Emme]

See I never had that sex issue. Didn't care whether he was getting it from someone else and even when he got married. I just wanted to cum. Most importantly its not even the sex it's the gratification of the moment when you are with the person. I know a lot of spouses like to put some AP's down by saying sex is all they want. In the end it isn't even the sex, it's about feeling validated. You feel as though you are worthy. You are in a sense appreciated because you aren't in your own messed up relationship. Good luck marriagemalpractice, hope your wife can bring you back to a place where you feel appreciated and loved.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Emme

[alexandria35]

Interesting: what do you think my MM actually does tell me when they have sex. For a while he admitted he was getting quite a lot and of course my feeling were hurt. Other time he says that there is not much going on and that he is annoyed by it. Is he just crazy outspoken or what ?

 

You are not having a sexual relationship with him so he doesn't feel like he has to lie to you about this. Also since you engage in webcam sex with him, knowing that he is sexual with his wife, he sees no need to lie to get what he wants from you.

 

If you were to become physically involved with him (in the flesh) he would probably start downplaying the sex with his wife and eventually claim to stop having sex with her altogether. How can you be so sure that he isn't lying to you already. Maybe he has learned that complaining to you about infrequent sex with the wife encourages you to act sexual with him to prove that you are better than his spouse in this regard. Men are not stupid, they pay attention and learn what works in their favor.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Wife and I agreed that right now we just need to start by figuring out if we even want to be married to each other anymore. This means counseling and total honesty with no other players in the game, no secrets, no having our cake and eating it too. So the plan is to go to counseling and start fleshing this all out. Seems at the moment that both of us feel some desire to do the hard work and restore the marriage, and some desire to just divorce and get a fresh start. We're both very confused, but I think we both agree that we need to figure this out honestly and stop playing childish games. She also actually apologized to me for her affair, which I think is the first time she's ever really done that. Kinda shocking, I really thought she'd lop my head off.

BTW - to answer chalkfarm's question, I don't think OMW thinks we're doing much more than shooting the ****. She's told me numerous times she wishes her husband would get his head out of his hindparts and work on their marriage. She's been quite clear she'd choose him if he'd have her. I think she enjoys having me around in the mean time since I "understand" her.... but I guess I'll find out for sure tomorrow what she was thinking. Why on earth did I get myself into this mess. Perhaps I'll update tomorrow after I talk to her.

 

Do you really have to attend counseling to figure out if you want that marriage?

 

I would have been shifting assets and calling lawyers long ago! What is keeping you from doing that?

[Anna101]

Actually your post is just the same as everyone elses really, it's true for you, true for some others, and untrue for some.

 

EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. Some MMs/MW are the stereotype down to a tee, others aren't, and so it goes on and on and on.

 

There are similarities, and some general things that appear to be common to some affairs, but none of it is earth shattering news to most people. No one is going to go HOLY ****, some people who have affairs have intimacy issues or confrontational issues etc.

 

I've been in the affair, out the other side, and now together and yet...it's all just us. We have stuff in common with others, but at the end of the day our situation is entirely unique all because we are ALL unique.

[VintageLady]

If you were to become physically involved with him (in the flesh) he would probably start downplaying the sex with his wife and eventually claim to stop having sex with her altogether. How can you be so sure that he isn't lying to you already. Maybe he has learned that complaining to you about infrequent sex with the wife encourages you to act sexual with him to prove that you are better than his spouse in this regard. Men are not stupid, they pay attention and learn what works in their favor.

 

OMG, this is so true! I had a brief EA with a MM and this is exactly how it started. He told me he was married but unhappy because they only had sex 2 times a month. Stupid me believed him and felt sorry for him and would engage in phone sex with him.

[NoIDidn't]

Ahhh, so far, a poster that tries to practice what they preach.

 

And the title and supporting thoughts is very true of most intimate relationships: things are never what they seem. Remember that's even true of the relationship that you have with your W. You guys are actually in a very good place now, IMO. You are being open and honest with each other in ways you were likely scared to be before.

 

You might save your marriage, or you might decide to divorce - but you'll do so out in the open with no shady secrets.

 

I understand your feelings about MW only coming around after fights, that's how many affairs go - even with the single OP/married AP set up. Its a dance. And its refreshing when someone is honest enough with themselves about what they are actually doing.

 

Your situation seems pretty messed up right now. I hope you have the strength to end things with the MW soon. And I hope you and your W are able to keep the openness and honesty going.

 

Best wishes and welcome to posting (no longer lurking )

[SoMovinOn]

Just because your MM/MW tells you they are only with you, don't buy it.

 

Why would you presume that is always the case? My AP and I are both married. There was never a presumption that she'd not have sex with her H. She doesn't need to lie to me about their life together - I KNOW she's married.

 

Yup... before the A, we discussed the paradox of getting involved in an A - doing so would prove us both capable and willing of getting into an A, lying, cheating, deceiving... and since our ultimate goal is to be together, it would set up a situation where we'd likely question whether we could trust each other.

 

Life is a bitch like that some times.

 

You can get married to someone who you are SURE will never cheat on you, and, you have about a 50/50 shot of being right.

 

Doesn't matter either way.

[OldOnTheInside]

Why would you presume that is always the case?

Why wouldn't you? People make dumb*ss presumptions about everything, all the time. Doubt anyone here is exempt. Doesn't make it a particularly good idea, but hey, that's life in all its glory.

 

 

Yup... before the A, we discussed the paradox of getting involved in an A - doing so would prove us both capable and willing of getting into an A, lying, cheating, deceiving... and since our ultimate goal is to be together, it would set up a situation where we'd likely question whether we could trust each other.

 

Life is a bitch like that some times.

 

You can get married to someone who you are SURE will never cheat on you, and, you have about a 50/50 shot of being right.

You're not a statistician are you?

 

You will all rape and murder somebody tomorrow. I have a 50% chance of being right.

 

But seriously, the bolded is a good point. Essentially, you're trusting somebody in a situation that is built from the broken trust of other people. I've been there quite a few times, and eff me, it can get messy as hell.

[spice4life]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Some quick history: About a year ago I found out my wife was having an EA/PA. Went through the ups and downs, counseling, etc. She spent this last year doing the yo-yo (would go back to him, come back to me and promise to change, go back to him etc etc). He finally got sick of it and dumped her, and now she is back "fully committed to working on our marriage". (And pigs fly out my butt every night). In the mean time, a girl I work with discovered what was happening and confided in me that her husband is cheating on her. Long story short, she and I have been having an EA the last four months. Came close to PA a while back, but somehow didn't happen (thankfully I think). So that makes me a BS, WS, and OM.

 

Just wanted to post my perspective on something based on some threads I've been reading recently. AS AN OM/OW AN AFFAIR IS NEVER WHAT YOU THINK IT IS. I've noticed over time that the worse things are with her hubby, the more my AP is into me and vice versa. We'll be talking and spending time together, then suddenly she'll disappear for a couple of weeks. Then suddenly, out of the blue, she'll call begging to spend time together.... and what do you know, she and her husband just had another fight or she discovered more infidelity on his part that afternoon. The point being, I AM HER ESCAPE.... and if I'm being honest, SHE IS MINE TOO. A married person will use the OM/OW for validation, sex, great feelings, whatever - but at the end of the day it is an escape, a fantasy.

 

I've ready plenty of posts from OM/OW talking about how their MM/MW loves them, has sex only with them, doesn't care about their spouse, etc. Oh yeah, how do you know? Do you spy on your MM/MW, look in their windows at all hours of the day and night, hack their email? You have no clue what really goes on in the confines of their home, in their marriage, with the partner they spend more time with than you. Case in point, when I discovered my wife's affair, we both flipped out and engaged in "hysterical bonding". We were having sex every day, sometimes 3, 4, 5 times a day, in every place and position imaginable. Prior to that we were still fairly sexually active as she was worried that suddenly withholding would make me suspicious. And as emotional as this whole last year has been, she and I have probably had more sex than we did in the last 5 years of our marriage combined. So imagine how surprising/amusing I found it when I discovered from her now xOM that he really believed he was her one and only, that she wasn't having sex with me or even being affectionate with me anymore, and that she and I were basically just roommates - just living together for financial convenience. He was in shock, felt like he had been duped. Well duh, dude, if she's going to lie to her spouse - the guy she promised her life to and shares a home, a bed, and children with - what on earth makes you think she won't lie to you?

 

Do you think I've told my AP that my wife and I still have sex regularly? Of course not, it would ruin our illusion. Knowing my AP, she and her hubby are probably still quite frisky, but do you think she tells me about it? No way. I only hear about how much her husband sucks, and she only hears about how awful my wife has been to me. Then we console each other and talk about how much better things would have been if we had just found each other in the first place. Poor us, two tortured souls who were meant to be together instead of with our cheating spouses, but who are both too scared to take it to the next level and actually sleep together or heck, even kiss.

 

Yeah, pretty messed up. I need counseling, and I think I need to end my own affair. It's just dumb, childish, and degrading to myself. I won't lie, it's kinda fun that my wife has no idea that while she's gone out sneaking around with her OM, I've been here with my OW. But still, it's just dumb. At the end of the day it's just fantasy on fantasy on fantasy. Lie upon lie upon lie. Anyway, moral of the story: AN AFFAIR IS NEVER WHAT YOU THINK IT IS. IF THEY CAN LIE TO THEIR SPOUSE, THEY CAN LIE TO YOU. Just because your MM/MW tells you they are only with you, don't buy it. My wife's xOM gets that now.

 

Of course an affair is never what you think it is because there is to much manipulation, gaslighting and smoke and mirrors to ever truly know. More so on MM/MW's part due to the fact that they are MARRIED. Good for you that you have decided to start living an honest life instead of staying immeshed in a triangle. It's not healty for anyone and a lot of healing starts to happen when one decides to face the truth and come CLEAN.

 

Good luck.

[SoMovinOn]

But seriously, the bolded is a good point. Essentially, you're trusting somebody in a situation that is built from the broken trust of other people. I've been there quite a few times, and eff me, it can get messy as hell.

 

It sure can. For her and I, it's not a worked together, got close, ended up in an affair thing. We've been in love for decades. Spent decades apart. She found me about the time I was deciding to get out of my M. She wasn't happy in her M... we thought about waiting until we were both single, then dating, but... realizing that is going to take some time, we eventually got to the point where we decided we didn't want to spend any more time apart. Rather selfish, but...

 

We spent enough non-A time together that we both felt we were comfortable enough in trusting each other - that we'd not "normally" be ok with an A.

 

But, as I predicted before we started, I have found myself questioning that on occasion. I admitted that to her, and she admitted she has done the same.

 

... but I just go back to - the person who I was sure would *never* cheat on me, did so, repeatedly, so... there is no way to get into a relationship and have any way of knowing it won't happen.

 

I've developed the attitude of - be with who you want to be with for as long as it works. If it stops working, let them go and move on.

[marriagemalpractice]

So an update: I talked with the MW 5 days ago. Told her I'd come clean with my wife, and that regardless of what happens long-term in each of our marriages, having an EA is probably not the healthiest way to go about things and we need to stop. I felt really emotional, pouring my heart out and everything.

 

Long story short, she basically laughed at me and told me I've obviously read way too much into things. She just sees me as a friend and has never had any romantic interest. Made me feel like a real putz.

 

I don't buy it, since she used to tell me how she wished she'd found me instead of her husband, joked about running away together, flirted like mad with me, etc. Not to mention that at one point it was so close to becoming physical that I still don't really know how it didn't happen. But of course I was too dumbfounded at the time to respond that way and was just like, "Oh, uh, OK, well sorry then, guess it was just me, how embarrassing...."

 

Haven't talked to her since, probably won't hear from her again. I won't lie, I'm really missing her though. For something so "meaningless", it hurts an awful lot.

 

My wife has continued to take it all in stride (or so it would appear) and wants us to work it all out. Though I really question her motives to be truthful, and trouble is I don't know if I want to. After everything she did, and now after what I've done - is it really worth even trying to save? I dunno.

Edited July 3, 2011 by marriagemalpractice

[spice4life]

So an update: I talked with the MW 5 days ago. Told her I'd come clean with my wife, and that regardless of what happens long-term in each of our marriages, having an EA is probably not the healthiest way to go about things and we need to stop. I felt really emotional, pouring my heart out and everything.

 

Long story short, she basically laughed at me and told me I've obviously read way too much into things. She just sees me as a friend and has never had any romantic interest. Made me feel like a real putz.

 

I don't buy it, since she used to tell me how she wished she'd found me instead of her husband, joked about running away together, flirted like mad with me, etc. Not to mention that at one point it was so close to becoming physical that I still don't really know how it didn't happen. But of course I was too dumbfounded at the time to respond that way and was just like, "Oh, uh, OK, well sorry then, guess it was just me, how embarrassing...."

 

Haven't talked to her since, probably won't hear from her again. I won't lie, I'm really missing her though. For something so "meaningless", it hurts an awful lot.

 

My wife has continued to take it all in stride (or so it would appear) and wants us to work it all out. Though I really question her motives to be truthful, and trouble is I don't know if I want to. After everything she did, and now after what I've done - is it really worth even trying to save? I dunno.

 

It's always best to resolve your issues the honest way, this way you don't fall victim to bored MW's looking to feed their egos. Figure it out with your wife and no matter how it turns out, you will have found the right answers. Good luck!

[chalkfarm]

It's always best to resolve your issues the honest way, this way you don't fall victim to bored MW's looking to feed their egos. Figure it out with your wife and no matter how it turns out, you will have found the right answers. Good luck!

He didn't "fall victim" to anyone. He was having a revenge affair.

 

Also, many people posting replies to his OP seemed so happy to hear from a MM that they didn't really READ his post. He is a BS laughing at his wife's XOM.

 

Like all posts, his must be taken with a grain of salt!

[marriagemalpractice]

Wow chalkfarm, I had no idea my real motive was laughing at the OM. I thought I was a guy sharing his story and trying to figure out how things got so screwed up. Good thing you're policing these forums. Now that I know I'm just trying to take a dig at my wife's xOM, it should be much easier to move forward. Thanks for knowing me so well, I don't know what I would have done without you.

 

He didn't "fall victim" to anyone. He was having a revenge affair.

 

Also, many people posting replies to his OP seemed so happy to hear from a MM that they didn't really READ his post. He is a BS laughing at his wife's XOM.

 

Like all posts, his must be taken with a grain of salt!