Will He Ever Decide?

[MissBee]

Again this really hits home. I love the belief in being a queen. All these posts are really amazing. I feel like I've been pretty blind because I do understand his position, but I do feel like Im sacrificing my well being to give him time to figure it out.

Also, when he started counseling it was just individual counseling. It has become joint only recently. What does it really matter though. As an earlier post said hes going to counseling with his wife now. That is an action. Hes seeing if they can regain what they had. That is also an action. What does it really matter what he feels for me. Hes not choosing that path now. Whatever he said in the past, the current reality is hes choosing his wife, the family he has. I guess Im repeating all this so that I get it.

 

I get so blinded when I speak with him and all the words of love, of I want to be with you but am not yet at the place I feel its the right thing to do. And then part of me understands because I dont want to hurt his wife or children either.

 

Im going to do my best to muster the strength to tell him Im walking away, and if its really his truth to be with me, he'll find a way. If my intuition that we will be together is true then he will find a way that doesn't include me being tortured talking to him all the time when he is not choosing to be with me, and keeping my life on hold, waiting, hoping. In truth, no matter how much bs I feed myself that I am good, my life is on hold with the hope that he and I will be together.

 

 

It's a very hard thing to look at what is, versus betting on potential or thinking of what "could be" or "may be", especially if the potential is a prettier picture than the current reality.

 

It is a skill I am learning though and have to pinch myself everyday and remind myself of it in relationship scenarios and life in general. Getting carried away and going down the rabbit hole of what may be is a lovely trip and you can live in that world and that hope for as long as you like...feeling annoyed and upset when the reality sometimes comes knocking.

 

Being grounded in reality though is very useful and allows you to avoid a world of pain. Often times in relationships, emotionally and in our fantasies we have gone to a level 10, when the reality is that the relationship is at a level 4 and we have gotten way ahead of ourselves! Then we come crashing down from that fantasy 10 to a seemingly more mundane 4.

 

However, if we base our decisions, actions and feelings on what is in fact going on right now with our eyes and ears open and feet planted on the ground, things often work out much better.

[Anna101]

I don't think he will decide unless he has to, and in this situation I believe that means - unless she kicks him out herself.

 

He chose the marriage during a dday, so it's extremely unlikely he'll suddenly decide to leave. He still loves you and can't let go, but he sounds very entrenched in his marriage.

 

Let him go, as hard as it is, let him go. It's hard to stop hoping that if you're a little more patient it will work out, but the chances of him leaving of his own accord and for you, don't seem very high at all.

[MissBee]

Welcome!!

 

Everyone has given you great responses. I'm not discounting your experience but am playing devil's advocate here. OW are usually incredibly naive & trusting. That's why you will find lots of "naysayers" here. We remember when we were naive & trusting and want to prevent others from walking the same road. Some affairs end in marriage (Loni's did), but the majority don't.

 

It could be love you're experiencing, Heart. It could also be addiction. Love fog / affairs are highly addictive processes. Like most addictions, you don't realize how an affair distorts perception until you go cold turkey. That's why no contact (NC) is so necessary. It's not unusual for people who have been in 5 or 6 months of NC to be shocked at how fuzzy their thinking was during the affair.

 

Everyone believes their love affair is different from the rest and that their "intense connection" is unique. Unfortunately, there are lots of smart, successful former affair partners here who once believed the very same thing. Intensity isn't the same thing as love.

 

MM who want to keep the affair and the marriage going at the same time are the norm. They are called "cake eaters" here. MM ending things, only to return, flattering OW by professing undying love for her while "working" on leaving their marriage or "working" on staying in their marriage? That's so typical here that it would be funny if it wasn't so horribly painful.

 

Here are some things to consider:

 

MM could have invented the entire D-Day story to control your relationship.

 

Until you have confirmed this information with someone else or spoke directly with BS, you really can't know there was a D-Day or that he's working on his marriage at all .... Some MM use infidelity to manage attachment disorder. They have a fear of intimacy, so ping ponging between the spouse and OW helps them have excitement & new attention while avoiding true intimacy. People with attachment disorder are famous for bonding intensely & quickly with lovers (-- typically, OW say these MM are the soul mates they were always searching for). When things get too close/committed, these guys get uncomfortable and pull away to control the intensity. Once they feel comfortable, they return to OW again. OW are flattered by the show of love and invite them back in. The roller coaster ride continues again & again, and the intensity of this insecure bonding is similar to traumatic bonding, causing OW to become more bonded to MM, not less. Much like abuse situations.

 

That's why it's more difficult to get out of an affair the longer it runs. There's a honeymoon stage with all relationships. In abusive relationships, women will stay plugged in even as they grow more miserable, hoping to regain the early intense "honeymoon" days. MM gives them intermittent rewards so, like abused wives, they hold on ... and on ... and on ...They want the fairytale and will discount any reality intruding on the fairy tale.

 

It's naive for OW to think highly of a MM who does not speak poorly of BS. Nearly everyone knows it's bad form to speak poorly of ex-lovers. You're seen as a red flag to be avoided. MM need OW to perceive them as "good" because if OW trust them, they are more likely to make themselves sexually available to MM. In this post you are anxious to present yourself and MM as "good" people, so "goodness" is clearly important to you, which I'm sure your MM knows. Obviously, it wouldn't be in his interest to badmouth his wife or marriage to you. He wouldn't look like such a wonderful man if he did that, and MM know that OW want to believe their men are wonderful and special.

 

Are you a highly empathetic, "sweet" person? Women who are sweet are often naive and are often deliberately targeted for affairs. Trusting, loyal women tend to make excuses for MM's actions --- for example, telling themselves that MM's routine lying and manipulation is the result of feeling sad and disconnected in his marriage. They will work that much harder to be better at "connecting" with MM, which suits MM just fine! Such women usually believe they are MM's first and only affair.

 

Will being married to this man elevate your life status/financial security/ identity in some way? Harsh question, but it needs to be asked. We are all weaned on fairy tales. OW tend to be easily flattered & manipulated by MM with a higher social status. Few OW would be as inclined to feel such unconditional love/intrude upon someone else's marriage if the MM was working a minimum wage job. If this is in the back of your mind, it's likely he's figured this out and could be leveraging it to his advantage to keep you plugged in.

 

Look at the advertisements in Craigslist and AshleyMadison.com to see how married men seeking affairs operate. I did a couple years ago, when I was in love fog with a MM who was making his interest known at work. I had told my girlfriend of a weird, unsettling encounter I had with MM's friend at the workplace -- the guy walked past me slowly, eyed me up and down, got a beverage, turned around and walked very slowly past me again, scrutinizing me. He went back into conference room with MM, who was sitting alone. My co-worker commented on how strange the guy acted, and I agreed. That evening, as I recounted this to my girlfriend, her antenna went up. My friend is 100x more worldly & sexually "experienced" than me. She openly wondered if MM and this guy were in cahoots, trolling for women together like middle-aged frat brothers. I suspected this was the case but didn't want to believe it. I insisted MM would never do such a thing -- he was a good church man, a family man and respected professional who did not have a reputation for affairs. (I was in love fog. Now I know better.) My friend laughed, saying I was naive. She suggested we go on Craigslist and scroll through "MM seeking MW" ads together while on the phone, so I could at least see how these guys operate. So we did. To my shock, I found an ad containing a picture of a man nearly identical to MM's friend I saw in the office that day. I also read an interesting ad by a "nice" professional MM seeking a 3-year relationship with a MW. (Strange that the ad had a time-limit, but it did.) The MM's age was just a year away from my MM's age. In the ad, he said his wife was a good woman but, sadly, his marriage had grown distant in recent years. He didn't want a relationship with MW to be about sex at first ... He wanted to talk to MW at length to see if there was a connection first, then take things slowly from there. His ad ended with: "Let the passion begin!" .... I didn't reply, of course , but reading those ads that evening opened my eyes to how practiced men seeking affairs operate. They aren't stupid -- well, except for the idiot who put a full-body picture of himself in the ad.

 

 

 

Eww....

[Silly_Girl]

To my shock, I found an ad containing a picture of a man nearly identical to MM's friend I saw in the office that day. I also read an interesting ad by a "nice" professional MM seeking a 3-year relationship with a MW. (Strange that the ad had a time-limit, but it did.) The MM's age was just a year away from my MM's age. In the ad, he said his wife was a good woman but, sadly, his marriage had grown distant in recent years. He didn't want a relationship with MW to be about sex at first ... He wanted to talk to MW at length to see if there was a connection first, then take things slowly from there. His ad ended with: "Let the passion begin!" .... I didn't reply, of course , but reading those ads that evening opened my eyes to how practiced men seeking affairs operate. They aren't stupid -- well, except for the idiot who put a full-body picture of himself in the ad.

 

I read things every day on LS, without fail, about 'how MM act', 'what MM do', 'the script' etc that help me to see how much my guy doesn't/didn't conform to the stereotype, it's lovely. But this one just about takes the biscuit. If that's how practiced men seeking affairs operate I'm happy to let them get the hell on with it!!

[fooled once]

He has made a decision. He made a decision to give his marriage another try. Although it is a pitiful effort since he's still staying in contact with you, he HAS decided to remain married...at least for now.

 

He has also decided to keep you in his life, in an affair...at least for now. Although it is no longer a PA, it is an EA which means that it is an ongoing affair. If you don't think so, ask his wife what her opinion on that is.

 

I don't care how much he loves you. When push came to shove, he chose to stay and chose to keep you in the wings. I know that hurts, and I know that's very direct, but it's where it is. He HAS made a decision.

 

Now, what are you going to do about that? If you want him to make a DIFFERENT decision, you're going to have to do something different. Quit giving him ANY of you. Even a little piece of you can slow momentum to a mere crawl and I know you don't want that. Talking, sharing, maintaining emotional intimacy, reassuring, all of that is just going to keep you all exactly where you are now. And that's not good for any of you.

 

One of you is going to have to come to this conclusion sooner or later, and if you want to be in the better position, you need to come to this conclusion first and stick by it. Get out there, live your life, and let him live with his decision. That's the best thing you can do if you want something different than what you have.

 

Great post.

 

Heart, do you really think he is so conflicted? I thought you said he loved you? If he did, why isn't he with you? WHY is he in Marriage counseling? Seriously - if he is so in love with you like you believe, he has had every opportunity to leave; but he stays because he DOES NOT WANT TO HURT HIS WIFE. He knows you are hurting, but your hurting doesn't compare to his wife hurting.

 

Isn't that a BIG RED FLAG for you?

 

You will survive without him.

 

Why do you allow yourself to be involved in this? WHY? Do you think if you tell him "call me when you are divorced" that he will 'forget' that he loves you? WHY are you letting yourself be so disrespected? WHY?

 

I don't believe for a second he told his wife about you. Nope. I think he told her he was not happy and boom, they are in MC.

 

So why do you stay? because even the crumbs he gives you is better than nothing? He is not that different than many MM. He says the same things - he loves you, but he has to give the marriage ONE MORE chance. Why? Why would he do that if he loved you so much? And he is making a mockery of the counseling since he is still in contact with you?

 

You are choosing to participate. You say he keeps calling and you finally answer...stop answering. Tell him you are DONE playing this game. He needs to sh*t or get off the pot. What is so hard about respecting yourself and not allowing someone to treat you this way?

 

You do realize he will keep you a hidden secret for as long as YOU let him. He already knows you will just do what he wants; you have shown that by your actions. You are letting him play you for a fool. You can love him all you want; but that doesn't mean he is leaving his wife. You can declare 'no more sex' until he makes a decision, but considering how easily you allowed yourself to keep talking to him, because he kept calling, you will be back in bed with him before long.

 

Like others said, he made his decision - his marriage. how can we all see that but you don't?

[Carrot2000]

Heart, by being so accommodating you are actually making it easier for him to stay married. Instead of addressing issues and truly committing to marital counseling, he uses you as his escape and suddenly, those insufferable conditions at home aren't' so awful after all. If he can maintain the status quo--if he can just keep showing his wife he's making and effort and continue to tell you how much he loves you, he can have his wife and kids and his mistress. It's a win-win!

 

It's time for you to take this man off his pedestal and take a good look at who he is. You're dealing with a man who'd rather cheat rather than fix what's broken in himself and in his marriage. A classic conflict avoider, he'll lie to save his ass and drag everyone else through the mud.

 

Is this truly what you want for yourself? I think you deserve better.

[TurboGirl]

Heart,

I am sorry that you are struggling, but the way I see it he already has made his decision. He is staying with his wife and family. His behavior says that - he's going to counseling with the wife. He is still there. Period. He is remaining in touch with you because you are allowing it... you are continuing to provide him with emotional support and giving up your positive energy to a guy who obviously can't keep his word. I'm sure his wife would freak if she knew he was still talking with you.

 

He can share some intimate feelings and thoughts with you because it is easy...you are nice and available for him and you don't have the daily drugery of real life. Kind of an escape for him.

 

What are you getting out of this "talking" friendship at this point? I see heartache. He's not really there for you, but YOU are there for him and as one other poster pointed out, this extra relationship allows him to remain married... and not giving 100% there. The only way you will ever know if it was meant to be is to cut off contact. End it. NC. Let's see if he can fix his marriage or if he eventually has the guts to leave if he is not happy there.

 

As for the loving...ahhh well, I understand that too. It will fade in time. The longer you stay away from him and and see or talk, the better it will be and the pain will fade. And YES you will meet someone to love again!

[chalkfarm]

Like others said, he made his decision - his marriage. how can we all see that but you don't?

She can't see it right now because she is too close - like the farsighted trying to read a book too close to their nose. With distance, she will see and everything will become clearer.

 

Give her time.

 

No one can be forced to "see".

[awkward]

Stop focusing on him. He made his choice. It's not like he's only been given two options - his wife or you. Choosing to have a wife and an OW is a choice that is still available to him and he took it.

 

Start focusing on you. What is your choice? Do you remain his OW or dump his ass. Unfortunately, both your options are going to be painful. Are you the type of girl who will slowly pick at the band-aid or rip it off and get it over with?

[Jessica232]

HI Everyone,

 

I am new here. I have read a bunch of these posts and there are a lot of smart comments from all of you that are also going through or gone through some version of this, so I thought I would post to get some feedback.

 

Reading through the stories, I am surprised how similar a lot of them are.

 

I, like many here, never in a million years thought I would find myself in this boat but here I am. I have been in an affair with a MM for a year now. A few months ago, he told his wife. He and I had been friends for about 6 years. We used to live near each other. I have had feelings for him for the last 5 years and never said a word. I have met his wife. I hadn't seen her in years, but it was a bridge I never thought I would cross, nor thought he would either. I never wanted to hurt her and have thought of her often.

 

We've always had an incredible connection. A year ago, he broke the ice and addressed it, and from that point I knew he was struggling with all the same feelings that I had been. Once, we both knew we each had the same feelings, it became impossible to contain.

 

We both are very similar, and are normally very honest, forthright, empathetic people. We are both known for being giving and caring and sensitive to others. The first time we were together we both vowed afterwards we would not go there again. Im sure many of you can relate. We continued to struggle, to say we would not have an affair, yet the love was/is so strong that we kept coming back to each other. He always initiated it, but I was there when he did.

 

What followed is what many of you have experienced. We fell in love. He tells me all the time he is in love with me. We planned a life together. He even spoke with my family members, saying he couldn't wait to meet them, to be part of my family. We spoke on the phone for hours every day, saw each other often. I saw myself being with him the rest of my life. We connect on every level. There is no question that if he were not married, we would be together. We both believe that. Because we have been friends so long, we really do know who the other one is, and thats part of what makes this so difficult. He is a good man and he has been very loving with me through out this entire experience. We both joke that this has been the healthiest relationship either of us have had in the most unhealthy situation.

 

So, a few months ago he told his wife. He decided he needed to tell the truth. He said that he saw us together, and most of him believed we would be, but a small percentage of him didn't know how he would react once he told and once he experienced her reaction. So D-Day came. It was beyond awful. He was in so much pain for the pain he caused. He said he needed to give his marriage a try and see if he could connect with her again. They are in marriage counseling. They have been married 19 years and have 3 kids. He never puts her down, or speaks badly about her, they are just disconnected and have been for awhile.

 

Well, even though, many times in these last three months, he has tried to stay away, not call, not see me, he keeps coming back. He tells me he's in love with me and wants to be with me, but he cant bear the pain this will cause her or his children. It became so painful, the back and forths, the I cant talk to you for awhile then calling 2 days later. I also, was doing some of the back and forth, saying dont call me until you have made a decision. He would call and eventually I picked up.

 

Finally, I decided I just wanted some peace and consistency. Consistency in an affair. I know thats kind of laughable. Its so painful to let go of each other. Its also so painful to continue to be intimate without a commitment and he now experiences a lot of guilt with that, so we have found a middle ground. Right now, we are speaking daily, but we agreed not to have sex unless he is free. Its like we are in a holding position. We don't have to go through the pain of losing each other now, and we are still connected, but I know, as does he, that one day this has to go one way or another. His wife doesn't know we still speak. She would be devastated if she knew.

 

So here is my question to you all. The part that just baffles me is how is it he can not make a decision. He says normally he is very decisive and has never been in a situation where he is straddling the fence. He says his heart is with me, but on the other side of the fence is his children who he cant bear to hurt and a wife he loves but is no longer in love with and he doesnt want to hurt her either. My big question is will he EVER decide?

 

What is maybe a bit different about our situation is that we don't have any drama between us. We communicate through all of this really clearly and have nothing but love for each other. He has been very honest about his process. I know we may never be together. I honestly just wish he knew what his truth was. I wish he knew what he will choose. How can he not know?

 

At this point, I think it would be kinder to me to let me go if he knew he could never be with me. But thats just it, he doesn't know 100% percent what he will choose.

 

In the meantime, they are in therapy, so he is seeing if he can save the marriage. He feels that if he doesn't try to save it, he will feel guilty. If he tries and they cant save it, then he can leave without guilt. Is that true, who knows. I know he is doing his best. This is such a difficult position for everyone, but I just don't know if he has the strength or ability to ever choose one path and stay on it.

 

Honestly, I dont know if I will ever be with anyone I love the way I do him. It scares me. But at this point, I want to face the truth whatever it is. If Im going to lose him ultimately, I wish he would just set me free. If we are ultimately going to be together, I wish he could know that 100%. Do I stay in contact with him or do I try to go No Contact again? He and I both have tried that so many times, and we've never made it more than a short time.

 

If he wasn't so clearly the man I wanted to spend my life with, it would be easy to walk away. Do I stay patient a while longer? I am actually in a good emotional space now. As long as Im not sleeping with him, I am functioning pretty well in life. I am by nature a happy, positive person, so that helps alot.

 

Any thoughts any of you have would be very welcome, but please be kind.

 

Also, any of the comments of well he's married, what are you thinking, please save them. Believe me, I've had many sleepless nights over the morality of this. I don't want to hurt his wife or his children, I want to do the right thing, but I am so in love with this man and cant turn off my heart, nor can he. If either of us could, we would have done it already.

 

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

 

Wow. Our situations/MM are very similar, they sound so much alike, both the MM themselves and the situations. I can see the guilt eat away at my MM, and though we are now on our second D Day (and he is still unwilling to let me go-BS is aware of his feelings), he has decided he has to try marriage counseling because his kids deserve to have parents that exhausted every avenue before giving up and getting divorced. He says he loves his wife, but is no longer in love with her.

 

However. I am done at this point. The bottom line to me is, though you say you don't really want to go to counseling, and you are almost certain it won't work, you're still going. You say you've been honest with BS about your feelings, and that may be true, but by choosing to go to counseling, you choose your marriage, and I cannot stay.

 

I have my own counselor, and as much as I hate to say it, she believes in my MM. She tells me, things aren't just black and white. You need to chill out. You need to give him the time to work it out in his mind. Well, I felt that I could, for awhile. Until it turned me into a crazy person. I just cannot take the stress, the roller coaster (divorcing one minute, counseling the next), and I cannot stand the person it turns me into. For my own sanity, I just had to make the decision that I am done. I know he loves me. I KNOW that. And I know everything is not black and white as some would have you believe on this board. But right now, for me and for you to move on, we need to accept....they choose the marriage.

 

What's meant to be will be. You just have to keep repeating that to yourself over and over and over. Be strong girlfriend, and know you're not alone!!

[Gentlegirl]

Ask yourself where he is right now and you will have answered your own question.

 

He has decided, and dumped you right on your little ass like so many MMs do.

 

It will be very painful if you pursue things further, so just walk away from the mess and don't get anymore involved.

 

all the best,

 

Gentlegirl

[heartinlove]

Thank you all for your feedback.

 

I have to admit at times this forum is rather intimidating. I took some time to digest all of this. It was interesting how many people said he had already made a decision. That part didn't really ring true. I also realized that I said he's in marriage counseling where the reality he is in individual counseling. Im new to all of this and now understand that this is a big distinction.

 

I did not go NC but rather continued to have very honest conversations with him. For me that felt like the right approach at the time. Posting here though and all your feedback helped me be more clear what I needed to communicate. I appreciate all the comments that said NC will help him make a decision, but once we took the conversations to another level it didn't feel right to go that route right now.

 

He has now reached a point where he is ready to leave his marriage and is planning to tell his wife. I know many of you don't believe that at all. If you don't, no problem, time will tell, but I am the one in this situation, and have a question based on that.

 

Here is my question to all of you. Do you think he should tell her the whole truth about why he is leaving and one part of that is his feelings for me? Or do you think he should leave out the part about his feelings for me and just talk about his feelings about the marriage being broken? I am asking what do you think is best for his wife.

 

Also, here is the big question. Do you believe that someone has the right to leave a marriage when it is over when part of the reason is they are in love with someone else?

 

I ask this because he knows he will cause tremendous pain, and I know this will cause tremendous pain and I am a part of what will be causing that pain. I am trying to reconcile that and make peace with it as best I can.

 

I know that many people will say if I really cared, I never would have had an affair. That is a valid point. But when you see yourself spending your life with someone, who also sees the same with you, it feels almost impossible to walk away. If I could have done that part better, i would have, and I still struggle with it.

 

I know many people feel people in affairs have no conscience, but i really, really do care about his wife and his children and want this to be as graceful as possible.

[TigerCub]

Thank you all for your feedback.

 

I have to admit at times this forum is rather intimidating. I took some time to digest all of this. It was interesting how many people said he had already made a decision. That part didn't really ring true. I also realized that I said he's in marriage counseling where the reality he is in individual counseling. Im new to all of this and now understand that this is a big distinction.

 

I did not go NC but rather continued to have very honest conversations with him. For me that felt like the right approach at the time. Posting here though and all your feedback helped me be more clear what I needed to communicate. I appreciate all the comments that said NC will help him make a decision, but once we took the conversations to another level it didn't feel right to go that route right now.

 

He has now reached a point where he is ready to leave his marriage and is planning to tell his wife. I know many of you don't believe that at all. If you don't, no problem, time will tell, but I am the one in this situation, and have a question based on that.

 

Here is my question to all of you. Do you think he should tell her the whole truth about why he is leaving and one part of that is his feelings for me? Or do you think he should leave out the part about his feelings for me and just talk about his feelings about the marriage being broken? I am asking what do you think is best for his wife.

 

Also, here is the big question. Do you believe that someone has the right to leave a marriage when it is over when part of the reason is they are in love with someone else?

 

I ask this because he knows he will cause tremendous pain, and I know this will cause tremendous pain and I am a part of what will be causing that pain. I am trying to reconcile that and make peace with it as best I can.

 

I know that many people will say if I really cared, I never would have had an affair. That is a valid point. But when you see yourself spending your life with someone, who also sees the same with you, it feels almost impossible to walk away. If I could have done that part better, i would have, and I still struggle with it.

 

I know many people feel people in affairs have no conscience, but i really, really do care about his wife and his children and want this to be as graceful as possible.

 

There's two sides to this:

 

1. if he just tells her the marriage is borken - then she will suggest that they do MC and work on what's broken and fix it.

To her, that would seem like the thing to do, if she wants to stay with him, and if she doesn't know there is another woman in the picture.

she'll most likely ask to work on the M with him - which he'll most likely do in a 1/2 a$$ed way because why wouldn't he under normal circumstances (what the W knows)

 

#2. If he went the route of telling her that he's done with the M because he's in love with someone else. Yeah, that would hurt her feelings more, but on the other hand she will know the truth and have all the puzzle pieces - so it would be more fair to her.

 

But....this could also set off the competitive instinct in her - as in "damned if I'm going to give up everything I've worked for and built just so some other woman can claim it." and of course if she's still in love with him, she will fight to regain the love, marriage and family that they had.

 

I think that either way, it will hurt her, but at least if she knows all the facts, it would be more fair to her.

Whatever happens in the end will depend on your MMs level of courage.

Most MMs (maybe not yours for sure) are cowards that will just try to maintain what's going on at home, so if the W wants MC and to work on things, they stay.

[reboot]

Classic cake eater.....

[TurboGirl]

 

Here is my question to all of you. Do you think he should tell her the whole truth about why he is leaving and one part of that is his feelings for me? Or do you think he should leave out the part about his feelings for me and just talk about his feelings about the marriage being broken? I am asking what do you think is best for his wife.

 

 

This is HIS business to decide what to tell his W, not yours... However, TigerCub did give you some good answers.

 

So I guess you are "helping" him through all of this, correct? Don't you want him to man up and make all of these decisions what to say, what to tell/not tell, on his own? That way if he truly does leave her for you, you'll know that he loves you. Not because you coached him on how to handle it. Just sayin'

 

Not sure where you live... but in certain states if the W can prove an affair, WOW shes gets alot of $$$. Adultery is still technically illegal in some states, and a good divorce attorney can take a cheating husband to the cleaners big time. I know, because a friend of mine did with a shark for an attorney.

[heartinlove]

This is HIS business to decide what to tell his W, not yours... However, TigerCub did give you some good answers.

 

So I guess you are "helping" him through all of this, correct? Don't you want him to man up and make all of these decisions what to say, what to tell/not tell, on his own? That way if he truly does leave her for you, you'll know that he loves you. Not because you coached him on how to handle it. Just sayin'

 

Not sure where you live... but in certain states if the W can prove an affair, WOW shes gets alot of $$$. Adultery is still technically illegal in some states, and a good divorce attorney can take a cheating husband to the cleaners big time. I know, because a friend of mine did with a shark for an attorney.

 

 

I live in a no fault state. I know he loves me. Thats not in question for me. Its also not about me coaching him or giving him the answers. He will discover his own. Its about me discerning what I feel about the situation and what is best, because this is a forum to get feedback. Believe this I always believed tell the truth no matter what, but there are alot of dimensions to this and I am formulating how I see it.

[heartinlove]

There's two sides to this:

 

#2. If he went the route of telling her that he's done with the M because he's in love with someone else. Yeah, that would hurt her feelings more, but on the other hand she will know the truth and have all the puzzle pieces - so it would be more fair to her.

 

But....this could also set off the competitive instinct in her - as in "damned if I'm going to give up everything I've worked for and built just so some other woman can claim it." and of course if she's still in love with him, she will fight to regain the love, marriage and family that they had.

 

I think that either way, it will hurt her, but at least if she knows all the facts, it would be more fair to her.

Whatever happens in the end will depend on your MMs level of courage.

Most MMs (maybe not yours for sure) are cowards that will just try to maintain what's going on at home, so if the W wants MC and to work on things, they stay.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. He has a hard time living a non truthful life so whatever the future is, it will get resolved. Given they have kids, I just go back and forth in what is the path forward. Obviously, he ultimately will decide what to tell or not to tell. Part of me feels it would be an easier transition for her and the kids without the whole truth, but I certainly hear your perspective too, so thanks for sharing it.

[MissBee]

Thank you all for your feedback.

 

I have to admit at times this forum is rather intimidating. I took some time to digest all of this. It was interesting how many people said he had already made a decision. That part didn't really ring true. I also realized that I said he's in marriage counseling where the reality he is in individual counseling. Im new to all of this and now understand that this is a big distinction.

 

I did not go NC but rather continued to have very honest conversations with him. For me that felt like the right approach at the time. Posting here though and all your feedback helped me be more clear what I needed to communicate. I appreciate all the comments that said NC will help him make a decision, but once we took the conversations to another level it didn't feel right to go that route right now.

 

He has now reached a point where he is ready to leave his marriage and is planning to tell his wife. I know many of you don't believe that at all. If you don't, no problem, time will tell, but I am the one in this situation, and have a question based on that.

 

Here is my question to all of you. Do you think he should tell her the whole truth about why he is leaving and one part of that is his feelings for me? Or do you think he should leave out the part about his feelings for me and just talk about his feelings about the marriage being broken? I am asking what do you think is best for his wife.

 

Also, here is the big question. Do you believe that someone has the right to leave a marriage when it is over when part of the reason is they are in love with someone else?

I ask this because he knows he will cause tremendous pain, and I know this will cause tremendous pain and I am a part of what will be causing that pain. I am trying to reconcile that and make peace with it as best I can.

 

I know that many people will say if I really cared, I never would have had an affair. That is a valid point. But when you see yourself spending your life with someone, who also sees the same with you, it feels almost impossible to walk away. If I could have done that part better, i would have, and I still struggle with it.

I know many people feel people in affairs have no conscience, but i really, really do care about his wife and his children and want this to be as graceful as possible.

 

 

I don't think people in affairs have no conscience....some don't but many more do. I have been in an affair before and I had a conscience, which was one reason I had to put an end to it.

 

Anyway, as for what he should or should not tell his wife. Did he ask for your advice on this? Or are you just asking for your own sake? I ask because I think that as much as you may love him and be a couple in your own right; their marriage is theirs alone. He knows her, he made that vow with her years ago and it is his duty to use that knowledge to decide on how to end things and what to say or not say. He can afford her that courtesy of leaving the OW out of that.

 

My personal opinion though is that he doesn't need to say he is leaving for someone else, he should leave you out of the equation and address the actual marriage itself and why it is not working for him. Since, I doubt very much that the marriage was great and you came along and changed the game.

 

I think one always has the right and choice to leave a marriage. I do believe however, that if and when that time comes for you, you should at least respect that person enough to be upfront about it.

[jj33]

Why are you giving away your power? Why is the decision regarding what sort of relationship YOU participate in up to him.

 

He told you he loves you and wants you to be together. He had a Dday and decided to work on the marriage.

 

Noone who is stil with the AP is working on their marriage in a real way. Working on the marriage means not seeing you and giving the marriage a fair shot.

 

So seems to me you have 2 choices.

 

You tell him you are tired of being the OW and being in the shadows and if he leaves and is single and you are single you can give your relationship a shot.

 

or you stay where you are, being in the shadows while he lies to his wife.

 

Its really that simple. If you are OK with being the OW then maybe its not such a big deal but if you were, you wouldnt be posting here waiting for him to make a decision.

 

You staying with ihm while he makes a false attempt to work on his marriage isnt the key to your future. Seems to me that if he is committed to leaving or even considering leaving seeing what life is like without you is more likely to change things than staying there while he has the best of both worlds.

 

He doesnt sound like someone who is planning to leave in the present. Will he leave in the future? Who knows. But keeping the status quo isnt going to encourage him to make a move IMHO so I wouldnt fall for that old chestnut and stay hoping he will see how perfect you are together.

 

I was with a MM a few years ago. He still thinks up all sorts of "legitimate" reasons to contact me all the time . He is still in love with me. He is still married. Go figure. People do what they want to do unless of course the W eventually kicks them out in which case they may come running.

 

But staying with someone who is conflicted hoping to get the relationship you want is a sure fire way to eat away at your self esteem if you arent happy with the relationship you have now.

[26pointblue]

Classic cake eater.....

 

Unfortunately I have to agree.

 

OP I feel you are so wrapped up in this man that you believe he is better than he truly is. He was living a lie for nearly a year. Then even after he told his wife the truth he stayed in touch with his OW while pretending to be working on the marriage [the two don't go hand in hand]. What he has done to his wife he can do to you & in my opinion is doing to you by dragging you through his mess. And you go along for the ride because you believe in him. I just want to point out that maybe believing in him so much may not be in your best interest. It could end up leading to a lot of hurt, just like his wife is undoubtedly feeling.

 

Just so you know, I was an OW. So I'm not trying to preach to you. Just trying to share what I learned the hard way. My xMM repeatedly told me he was leaving his wife . . . even moved out a couple times. In the end, he stayed put. Come to find out that during one of our 'breaks' he renewed his vows w/ his wife . . . then went back to the affair as soon as I would take him back . . . because I 'believed' in him... . . . & because I was selfish. Ironically I thought I had my own best interests at heart . . . which is what you have to do to be an OW-- no matter how much you say you don't want to hurt the wife & kids, you are, so, you are only thinking of your best interest by staying involved . . . but in the end what I learned was that I was in fact acting against my best interests, & bringing hurt & pain onto myself. That's why now I'm a big believer in staying true to myself & my own ideals & not compromising them for any guy or accepting less than I know I deserve, like MissBee says. You say you are a good, honest, truthful etc. person but you have been living a lie with him this whole time. It has only been hurting you, his wife, his kids, everything.

 

I found out with the benefit of distance & hindsight that my xMM was a classic cake-eater, even moreso than most, that he had no problem telling his wife he was 100% sorry & devoted to her, while at the very same time telling me he was 100% sure he was getting divorced & was going to be with me. Some people have absolutely no problem living double [or more] lives, & they are very comfortable & convincing in each separate life. Just think about it. I know you say you know him but really doesn't every OW? None of us would be doing all of this for some guy we know we don't know, or for some guy we know would throw us under the bus or lie to us or string us along. But usually that is exactly what they're doing, intentionally or unintentionally, & all we know of them is the side the present to us & what we want to see. Just protect yourself & be true to yourself is what I'm trying to say.

 

When is this planned conversation with his wife supposed to take place? As far as what he should tell her, I believe she deserves the whole truth, & I also think she'll obviously put it together since he's already told her about you! Why continue the lie, it makes no sense. I think he needs to start being completely honest for once. If he's capable of that. Often I really don't think they are.

[26pointblue]

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. He has a hard time living a non truthful life so whatever the future is, it will get resolved. Given they have kids, I just go back and forth in what is the path forward. Obviously, he ultimately will decide what to tell or not to tell. Part of me feels it would be an easier transition for her and the kids without the whole truth, but I certainly hear your perspective too, so thanks for sharing it.

 

Wow. No offense but based on his actions, the part in bold is so not true. He has been living a non truthful life for over a year. Yeah he might have felt guilt, it might have felt 'hard' on him but with his actions he has been doing it. He has shown he is capable of it. So I don't buy for a minute that he in reality has a hard time doing it.

 

This is what I mean when I say you believe in him more than you should. At least call a spade a spade & say he has a fairly easy time [compared to, say, a faithful husband who doesn't have an affair, or other people who don't lie as a routine part of having an affair - lies of commission {wherever he tells her he is when he's with you -- telling her he's only had sex with her a few times}, & lies of ommission {all the time he was involved with you & not filling her in . . . all the stuff he doesn't tell her in counseling or otherwise that would help her understand what he truly has been up to & what he truly supposedly wants-- to be with his OW, not her}] living a non truthful life.

 

You can't truly believe that someone capable of carrying on an affair that long, & still carrying on an EA while working on his marriage with his wife, is someone who has a hard time living a non truthful life.

[MissBee]

Unfortunately I have to agree.

 

OP I feel you are so wrapped up in this man that you believe he is better than he truly is. He was living a lie for nearly a year. Then even after he told his wife the truth he stayed in touch with his OW while pretending to be working on the marriage [the two don't go hand in hand]. What he has done to his wife he can do to you & in my opinion is doing to you by dragging you through his mess. And you go along for the ride because you believe in him. I just want to point out that maybe believing in him so much may not be in your best interest. It could end up leading to a lot of hurt, just like his wife is undoubtedly feeling.

Just so you know, I was an OW. So I'm not trying to preach to you. Just trying to share what I learned the hard way. My xMM repeatedly told me he was leaving his wife . . . even moved out a couple times. In the end, he stayed put. Come to find out that during one of our 'breaks' he renewed his vows w/ his wife . . . then went back to the affair as soon as I would take him back . . . because I 'believed' in him... . . . & because I was selfish. Ironically I thought I had my own best interests at heart . . . which is what you have to do to be an OW-- no matter how much you say you don't want to hurt the wife & kids, you are, so, you are only thinking of your best interest by staying involved . . . but in the end what I learned was that I was in fact acting against my best interests, & bringing hurt & pain onto myself. That's why now I'm a big believer in staying true to myself & my own ideals & not compromising them for any guy or accepting less than I know I deserve, like MissBee says. You say you are a good, honest, truthful etc. person but you have been living a lie with him this whole time. It has only been hurting you, his wife, his kids, everything.

 

I found out with the benefit of distance & hindsight that my xMM was a classic cake-eater, even moreso than most, that he had no problem telling his wife he was 100% sorry & devoted to her, while at the very same time telling me he was 100% sure he was getting divorced & was going to be with me. Some people have absolutely no problem living double [or more] lives, & they are very comfortable & convincing in each separate life. Just think about it. I know you say you know him but really doesn't every OW? None of us would be doing all of this for some guy we know we don't know, or for some guy we know would throw us under the bus or lie to us or string us along. But usually that is exactly what they're doing, intentionally or unintentionally, & all we know of them is the side the present to us & what we want to see. Just protect yourself & be true to yourself is what I'm trying to say.

 

When is this planned conversation with his wife supposed to take place? As far as what he should tell her, I believe she deserves the whole truth, & I also think she'll obviously put it together since he's already told her about you! Why continue the lie, it makes no sense. I think he needs to start being completely honest for once. If he's capable of that. Often I really don't think they are.

 

Amazing post!

 

Cosign x 100000

 

My interest is not to sabotage the "wonderful" relationship OW have with MM or to rain on anyone's parade. I want every woman to be truly happy, RESPECTED, loved, told the truth, getting what she wants, needs and deserves and not this kind of thing....

 

If in the end it all works...then my sincerest congrats but if I see the smoke, I'll point it out so that you can at least prepare or consider the potential fire and not get horribly burned.

[Owl]

Heart...set a timeframe on when he's going to tell his wife and file for divorce.

 

If it's not happened in the next two weeks...it will never happen unless she finds out and gives him the boot first.

 

OK...never isn't the right word. But I will say that it probably won't happen...and admit he could be an exception, but I'd give you better odds on getting rich at the horse races.

[jj33]

Thank you all for your feedback.

 

I have to admit at times this forum is rather intimidating. I took some time to digest all of this. It was interesting how many people said he had already made a decision. That part didn't really ring true. I also realized that I said he's in marriage counseling where the reality he is in individual counseling. Im new to all of this and now understand that this is a big distinction.

 

I did not go NC but rather continued to have very honest conversations with him. For me that felt like the right approach at the time. Posting here though and all your feedback helped me be more clear what I needed to communicate. I appreciate all the comments that said NC will help him make a decision, but once we took the conversations to another level it didn't feel right to go that route right now.

 

He has now reached a point where he is ready to leave his marriage and is planning to tell his wife. I know many of you don't believe that at all. If you don't, no problem, time will tell, but I am the one in this situation, and have a question based on that.

 

Here is my question to all of you. Do you think he should tell her the whole truth about why he is leaving and one part of that is his feelings for me? Or do you think he should leave out the part about his feelings for me and just talk about his feelings about the marriage being broken? I am asking what do you think is best for his wife.

 

Also, here is the big question. Do you believe that someone has the right to leave a marriage when it is over when part of the reason is they are in love with someone else?

 

I ask this because he knows he will cause tremendous pain, and I know this will cause tremendous pain and I am a part of what will be causing that pain. I am trying to reconcile that and make peace with it as best I can.

 

I know that many people will say if I really cared, I never would have had an affair. That is a valid point. But when you see yourself spending your life with someone, who also sees the same with you, it feels almost impossible to walk away. If I could have done that part better, i would have, and I still struggle with it.

 

I know many people feel people in affairs have no conscience, but i really, really do care about his wife and his children and want this to be as graceful as possible.

 

How can a person not have a right to leave to be with someone else? Of course he has the right.

 

Whether he decides to tell her or not is another story. Seems to me that for someone to fall in love with someone else and be willing to leave the marriage (as opposed to being kicked out for being an azzclown) there must be issues in the marriage. Noone leaves just becaus their heart goes pitter patter. The fact that he met you, while wonderful isnt the point.

 

There is going to be pain. Whether you are a cause of it or this was an exit affair, who knows.

 

And as others have said, I dont want to rain on your parade but I would pay close attention to when this conversation takes place. It is sometimes a ploy to string the AP along. Not always but sometimes. There are always reasons to put off a conversation that you know will break your family's heart even if the romance has gone out of the marriage there is oftentimes still love for the person or at least a desire not to hurt them.

[26pointblue]

Heart...set a timeframe on when he's going to tell his wife and file for divorce.

 

If it's not happened in the next two weeks...it will never happen unless she finds out and gives him the boot first.

 

OK...never isn't the right word. But I will say that it probably won't happen...and admit he could be an exception, but I'd give you better odds on getting rich at the horse races.

 

Okay, perhaps my xMM was an extreme example ha ha, but, just wanted to point out . . . sometimes they get kicked out for being an azzclown & still manage to weasle back into their wife's life/ the marital home, while all the while keeping OW in the wings. I believe many MMs like to keep OWs on the side/ as their default option for as long as possible but very few take the necessary steps to be with her instead of stay married. In fact often they take the necessary steps to stay married- playing perfect husband & dad- while telling the OW they are just trying to keep the peace, bide the time while they get their ducks in a row, not hurt the wife, & at least in my situation, even that they are soon talking to the wife, they have moved out & want a divorce, etc. -- it's all to stay where they want [married, &, if at all possible, in an affair with the OW] & cover their own hides. And in the event that the wife does kick them out or initiate divorce talk/proceedings, they turn around & act to the OW like it was all their idea-- they're finally taking action, isn't she happy?? For me I started to go, 'wait a minute' -- when wifey's upset you come running to me acting like it was all your idea & we're going to be happy ever after, but when she's not upset you're all 'I'm doing what I need to do to protect her feelings, to not hurt my kids . . . it doesn't add up.

 

OP I'm not trying to say your situation has to be like most of the rest . . . sure, maybe it is different, maybe your guy is really going to take action. But at least consider the possibility that it could end up like those of us here who are trying to warn you. It's like in that book 'He's Just Not That Into You' -- they say, yeah we're telling you about what usually happens, about the 'rules' of how guys act & dating, & yeah there are exceptions, but we don't want you to think you're one of them because odds are you're not! It makes more sense to believe you're in the majority rather than a minor exception category . . . where your heart is concerned. It makes sense to at least consider the possibility. Especially with someone shown capable of lying, betraying, deceiving, cheating, breaking his promises, etc.

 

You don't know until you know -- not until he talks to his wife, not until he moves out, not until divorce is filed, but until he's actually, completely divorced. And if you have this mindset where you totally believe in him & he's on this pedestal in your eyes & he 'has a hard time living a non truthful life' . . . even then you're not out of the woods because he could turn around & do to you the same hurtful things he's been doing to his wife of 19 years & mother of his kids! I know that trust is important in any relationship but based on what he has been capable of doing I don't think you should go around with a 'he's such an honest & good peron' attitude or you could end up getting really blind-sided . . . instead I see this as a situation where you have to use caution & be a little more cynical, to protect yourself & just to live in reality rather than a fantasy of him being this perfect guy.

 

As a disclaimer, I don't mean to project what happened to me to you, & I hope things do turn out differently for you [i guess -- in my case I'm glad they turned out the way they did because I saw xMM for who he really is, which is, not a good life choice for me! -- but it was a very hard process.] All I'm saying is, there are usually commonalities, & I made some very very very stupid decisions so maybe I have more hard knock learning experience that I feel compelled to try to pass on, ha ha. All of my bad decisions involved believing in what xMM was saying & what I felt in my heart over what his actions were telling me & what my head/gut was trying to tell me [as well as from just blind selfishness/recklessness . . . not caring enough about anyone, including my own self, & not caring about the consequences]. So I am not here to judge, just to share, because my situation was quite ridiculous in hindsight, but I see pieces of it all over the place here, including in your story. Best wishes.