Love possible in A?

[Spark1111]

Good question.

 

Because there are one or two other innocent people that the participant(s) of infidelity are supposed to be committed to.

 

 

 

The same can be said for OM/OW and WSs who assume and conjure up the most insane reason out the sky to try and rationalize their sociopathic, narcissistic behavior.

 

 

 

If your "best friend" was with someone else or married to someone else, then he was not your best friend, he was just your friend. And you're using the word "romantic" very loosely, almost insulting the true meaning of the word. It's called infatuation. LUST is what you felt.

 

 

 

Nope sorry don't try to excuse it as if it was a hot object you quickly pulled your hand away from. You guys at the least, engaged in an emotional affair and both of you realized what was going on. It's good that you guys pulled your heads out of your behinds early, but that doesn't excuse or changes what happened.

 

 

 

No, it's not a true statement. You guys simply knew it was wrong and decided not to add anymore fuel to the fire that both of you collaboratively started. Wasn't because you two were in love, you guys just stopped thinking with what is down there between those legs and actually used what is in those skulls.

 

 

 

I don't think of it as ripping people apart, I think of it as telling the truth.

 

 

 

Okay....

 

 

 

You're absolutely right, people DO make mistakes BUT having an affair is not a mistake, and part of living life is learning to THINK before you ACT.

 

 

 

Okay and that's good.

 

 

 

Again I don't "rip" anyone when I reply to a participant of infidelity. I just call it as it is so my route is just fine.

 

 

 

Even if I tried it wouldn't matter.

 

 

 

Now you're of accusing me of something I would never physically do to a human being, and using the derogatory term very loosely and disrespectfully. I think you're "throwing" your assumptions too far.

 

 

 

I know I'm not perfect but did I deserve to be cheated on? Did my son deserved to get neglected from his "mother" because she wanted some new booty? Did I deserve to have my life put at risk for a disease that could kill me? No.

 

We may not be perfect, but that does not mean we cannot control our actions.

 

No, you absolutely did not deserve to be cheated on, exposed to STDs, and to have your marriage and your family life ripped apart.

 

No one deserves it, ever.

[wheelwright]

My thought would be to STOP trying to compare romantic love with that of a child to a parent. There are all kinds of love...and for the most part, there is simply no comparisons. Apples to field mice.

 

If you want to better understand romantic love specifically, that's great. So here are a couple of books I'd suggest. "The Five Love Languages", by Chapman I think. Also take a look at the concepts of "The Love Bank" that are in many of Harley's books, and on the marriagebuilders.com free material (but AVOID THE FORUMS THERE).

 

Both of these resources have great concepts on how romantic love is formed, maintained, and even potentially destroyed in a relationship. Excellent resources that help explain what makes people feel loved, lose those feelings, and how to avoid doing so. They also explain a good deal about the different 'stages' of romantic love.

 

Granted, they'll never cause the reader of romance novels to bat an eye, but they're a good practical application type read.

 

Thanks for these tips. Not read the Chapman, but know and like the love bank ideas. Makes sense to me. This is about maintaining love. Likewise the stages make sense.

 

I did avoid the forums!

 

I think there are different kinds of Rs, but remain unconvinced there are different types of love. Intensities and trust vary though.

 

I agree the kind of attention R love requires is totally different to any other kind - unless it's long distance and non-sexual

 

It's just something I've noticed about the quality of a love feeling that crosses all the types of love. That's my experience, though I see it is not shared, or perhaps it's the way I put it.

 

Francesco Alberoni (who incidently you might like to read and comment on - it's online) agrees with this view that the love feeling is the same across the board.

[Owl]

Thanks for these tips. Not read the Chapman, but know and like the love bank ideas. Makes sense to me. This is about maintaining love. Likewise the stages make sense.

 

I did avoid the forums!

 

I think there are different kinds of Rs, but remain unconvinced there are different types of love. Intensities and trust vary though.

 

I agree the kind of attention R love requires is totally different to any other kind - unless it's long distance and non-sexual

 

It's just something I've noticed about the quality of a love feeling that crosses all the types of love. That's my experience, though I see it is not shared, or perhaps it's the way I put it.

 

Francesco Alberoni (who incidently you might like to read and comment on - it's online) agrees with this view that the love feeling is the same across the board.

 

I've read just a smidgen of Alberoni's work...disagreed with it, and felt it was completely impractical, so moved on rather quickly.

 

As far as different kinds of love...sure there is. Simple test...for all that you love your children, or your mother, or your brother/sister do you feel 'romantically inclined' towards them? Of course not!!!

 

Same thing with your best female friend, would be my bet. You 'love' her, but the feelings are simply much different than those you would feel towards someone who is a potential 'love interest'.

 

It's not a different degree of love...it's a different type of love.

 

The two aren't the same at all.

[John Michael Kane]

Wow..You call it like it is? Is this the handbook dictated by JMK? Ive never heard of it before, I guess I am behind in the new book department at B&N. Dont even try to tell me that he wasent my best friend. I never had a physical attraction to him in the 20 years Ived known the man. So how do you explain that one? How I was acting out only because I was "lusting" after him? That is a bunch of bull crap.

 

It's not bull crap, it's the truth, and if he had an innocent partner to be blank your feelings were invalid. You say you never had an attraction to him in 20 years, so how did the affair start up? Wait, don't tell me "it just happened."

 

I really dont care what someone has done to someone else, they dont deserve to be cheated on. People come here for support and seeking knowledge about the situations they are in. Here comes you, a BS, with your high and mighty self, not telling them the truth, but the truth as YOU see it.

 

Nah I tell them the cold hard truth. But since we're on the subject of advice, there are many variables to it, and you don't have to agree with my method. That's fine.

 

Yes,if you told people what happen to you ( I have not read your back story), you dont know WHO you might touch and change. If you dont want to do that, then why the heck are you here? Why even post? What is the point?

 

Simple: One doesn't need to tell their story in order to inspire someone.

 

It seems you are taking it out on everyone here since you cant take it out on the person who did that to you. Which helps no one. Not even yourself.

 

But see I have taken my anger out on my ex-wife. I let her know completely how angry I was with her. Then I scooped up my son and divorced her. End of story.

 

But you're assumptions and ignorance of betrayed spouses helps no one either. Not even YOURSELF.

 

And the bit about throwing stones? You know what I was saying. People who live in glass houses dont throw stones.

 

Exactly. I don't throw stones or any objects in my house.

 

Are you telling me youve never told a lie or hurt someone you didnt mean to?

 

Again you're ignoring what I said. I didn't say I was perfect, nor will I claim to be. Yes I have lied and hurt someone I didn't mean to, on more than one occasion. But that has absolutely nothing to do with getting knocked up by another man while a husband is at home taking care of 3 kids with bills to pay.

 

Cmon now. Just because your mistakes did not involve A's, it dosent make you any better person than someone who did.

 

But see having an affair is not a mistake. And what I find so sad is why do people try to bring someone else down by saying they're not better than them, simply because they don't strive to better themselves as an individual. What does that say about you? Are you willingly accepting the consequences of your past actions? Are you taking responsibility, instead of trying to place blame on a bottle of wine or a bad relationship?

[John Michael Kane]

No, you absolutely did not deserve to be cheated on, exposed to STDs, and to have your marriage and your family life ripped apart.

 

No one deserves it, ever.

 

Thank you.

[Spark1111]

Wheelright, your situation is unique to LS.

 

Your affair was actually an exit affair, but you did not wind up with your AP.

 

I think you experienced, for the very first time, compassion and kindness and a type of respect for the first time in your life in your brief affair with a MM.

 

You actually are fairly protective of your stbxH and the way he treated you throughout the marriage. I read between your lines. That is a respectful thing to do for the father of your children and I commend you for it.

 

Where to go from here?

 

Get practical. Your AP is not returning and neither are those feelings of limerance for him that remain unrequited.

 

But you can turn now into a learning experience for yourself to be better prepared for any future relationships you may have.

 

The resources Owl reccommended is a great place to start.

 

Romantic love, true long-term love, follows three stages for everyone.

 

First is limerance or attraction, where hormones put rose-colored glasses on our noses and the sex is off the charts. We are almost incapable of seeing any flaws in our partner, want to share and spend every waking minute with them, cannot imagine a future without them.

 

Hate to say it, but many an affair gets stuck here, for better or for worse.

 

The second stage is called the reality or disillusionment phase. We start to see our partner's flaws and they see our's. We start to feel resentful that our needs are not met, and every argument deteriorates into a power play of who is right, or righter. We start to live in the reality of kids, bills, responsibilities and the stresses they cause to ourselves and our marriage. Romance is too hard to sustain, there isn't enough money or resources; we grow complacent, often distanced and stop communicating effectively.

 

This phase is where many relationships falter and fail. It is also where an affair is most likely to occur, or a divorce.

 

The last phase, for those lucky enough to get there, is called mature love. I know all your warts and wrinkles and you know mine, but we love each other DESPITE it.

 

We start to dote on one another again; have fun again; explore our neglected sexuality again. We talk of everything again and accept each other as we are. It's comfortable, inspiring, and amazing.

 

I hope you learn that no relationship can sustain limerance long-term. I would hate to see you get stuck here. I hope you continue to educate yourself to become the best person you can be for any future relationships.

 

All I know of true love? It does not hurt anyone in its actions. It uplifts, inspires, feels safe and secure....but it does not hurt others.

[MissBee]

Romantic love, true long-term love, follows three stages for everyone.

 

First is limerance or attraction, where hormones put rose-colored glasses on our noses and the sex is off the charts. We are almost incapable of seeing any flaws in our partner, want to share and spend every waking minute with them, cannot imagine a future without them.

 

Hate to say it, but many an affair gets stuck here, for better or for worse.

 

The second stage is called the reality or disillusionment phase. We start to see our partner's flaws and they see our's. We start to feel resentful that our needs are not met, and every argument deteriorates into a power play of who is right, or righter. We start to live in the reality of kids, bills, responsibilities and the stresses they cause to ourselves and our marriage. Romance is too hard to sustain, there isn't enough money or resources; we grow complacent, often distanced and stop communicating effectively.

 

This phase is where many relationships falter and fail. It is also where an affair is most likely to occur, or a divorce.

 

The last phase, for those lucky enough to get there, is called mature love. I know all your warts and wrinkles and you know mine, but we love each other DESPITE it.

 

We start to dote on one another again; have fun again; explore our neglected sexuality again. We talk of everything again and accept each other as we are. It's comfortable, inspiring, and amazing.

 

I hope you learn that no relationship can sustain limerance long-term. I would hate to see you get stuck here. I hope you continue to educate yourself to become the best person you can be for any future relationships.

 

All I know of true love? It does not hurt anyone in its actions. It uplifts, inspires, feels safe and secure....but it does not hurt others .

 

Amazing post!

 

I hope to attain that mature love...but even reading about the disillusionment phase makes me want to run for the cover of limerance That's how I, as well as most others, envision a relationship....just the limerance aspects and even the mature love aspect but have NO CLUE what to do in the disillusionment period. I however, have witnessed my aunt and Uncle married for 13 years who have a mature love, and through kids, bills, a sick mother, etc they are inlove as much as ever. They still go on dates, she still lights up when he text messages her, she still surprises him with little things and he her, they go on vacations without the kids sometimes and that's what I want for myself. Sure they have had tiffs and issues...but nothing that has shaken the foundation of their marriage and when you go their home or see them together you can see and feel the happiness unlike some married people who just seem like relatives or are clearly unhappy with each other.

 

I'm learning how to cultivate the skills needed to work through the realities of life while still maintaining love and romance.

[Spark1111]

Amazing post!

 

I hope to attain that mature love...but even reading about the disillusionment phase makes me want to run for the cover of limerance That's how I, as well as most others, envision a relationship....just the limerance aspects and even the mature love aspect but have NO CLUE what to do in the disillusionment period. I however, have witnessed my aunt and Uncle married for 13 years who have a mature love, and through kids, bills, a sick mother, etc they are inlove as much as ever. They still go on dates, she still lights up when he text messages her, she still surprises him with little things and he her, they go on vacations without the kids sometimes and that's what I want for myself. Sure they have had tiffs and issues...but nothing that has shaken the foundation of their marriage and when you go their home or see them together you can see and feel the happiness unlike some married people who just seem like relatives or are clearly unhappy with each other.

 

I'm learning how to cultivate the skills needed to work through the realities of life while still maintaining love and romance.

 

You know what I have read post-affair?

 

Ninety percent of all marital arguments are unsolvable. Yep, that's right. You are you and I am me and we are two very different people with different perspectives and 90% of the time we will never see eye-to-eye.

 

With troubled relationships, being right becomes more important than being happy as we need and try to sway our partner to our way of doing things. In happy relationships, they defer to the partner who feels most passionately about an issue. They try to always meet each other's needs.

 

The experts will tell you that compatibility is highly over-rated. You can be right, or you can be happy.

 

Long term love is about RESPECT and APPRECIATION for each other as differing human beings, and the ability to communicate KINDLY our disagreements. It is about putting FIRST your partner and they reciprocate in kind.

 

Psycologists and scientists, and evolutionary biologists now study the few and the rare that have remained gloriously partnered over the long haul.

 

Compatibility they have determined is, believe it or not, not a factor.

[TurningTables]

It's not bull crap, it's the truth, and if he had an innocent partner to be blank your feelings were invalid. You say you never had an attraction to him in 20 years, so how did the affair start up? Wait, don't tell me "it just happened."

 

No, It just didnt "just happen". No matter what I say or how I tell my end of the story, wont matter to you. In your eyes, Im just a cheater.

 

Nah I tell them the cold hard truth. But since we're on the subject of advice, there are many variables to it, and you don't have to agree with my method. That's fine.

 

I dont agree with your methods. You are not giving out advice. You are giving out bitterness and resentment.

 

 

Simple: One doesn't need to tell their story in order to inspire someone.

 

lol..I dont see how they are getting anything out of your one line sarcastice mean spirited posts. You kick people when they are down to lower them to your level.

 

But see I have taken my anger out on my ex-wife. I let her know completely how angry I was with her. Then I scooped up my son and divorced her. End of story.

 

 

Then what the heck are you STILL doing here?

 

But you're assumptions and ignorance of betrayed spouses helps no one either. Not even YOURSELF.

 

 

How do you know I havent been a BS? Have you even bothered to ask me? You see there is two sides to a story.

 

Exactly. I don't throw stones or any objects in my house.

 

 

 

Again you're ignoring what I said. I didn't say I was perfect, nor will I claim to be. Yes I have lied and hurt someone I didn't mean to, on more than one occasion. But that has absolutely nothing to do with getting knocked up by another man while a husband is at home taking care of 3 kids with bills to pay.

 

 

 

But see having an affair is not a mistake. And what I find so sad is why do people try to bring someone else down by saying they're not better than them, simply because they don't strive to better themselves as an individual. What does that say about you? Are you willingly accepting the consequences of your past actions? Are you taking responsibility, instead of trying to place blame on a bottle of wine or a bad relationship?

 

 

Having a A is a mistake. What else would you call it? And where in the heck did I say anything about me being better than you? I was directing that as in saying " You think YOU are better than anyone here who has had a A". I OWN my all my actions in what I say and do. And talk about assumptions? Please! I dont drink and I left a bad relationship a long long time ago. Try again.

 

*sorry for the in quote in quote stuff, I have not figured that out yet* lol

Edited June 28, 2011 by TurningTables
quote

[MissBee]

You know what I have read post-affair?

 

Ninety percent of all marital arguments are unsolvable. Yep, that's right. You are you and I am me and we are two very different people with different perspectives and 90% of the time we will never see eye-to-eye.

 

With troubled relationships, being right becomes more important than being happy as we need and try to sway our partner to our way of doing things. In happy relationships, they defer to the partner who feels most passionately about an issue. They try to always meet each other's needs.

 

The experts will tell you that compatibility is highly over-rated. You can be right, or you can be happy.

 

Long term love is about RESPECT and APPRECIATION for each other as differing human beings, and the ability to communicate KINDLY our disagreements. It is about putting FIRST your partner and they reciprocate in kind.

 

Psycologists and scientists, and evolutionary biologists now study the few and the rare that have remained gloriously partnered over the long haul.

Compatibility they have determined is, believe it or not, not a factor.

 

That's interesting...

 

My aunt and uncle are in their second marriages with each other, and are quite compatible compared to her first marriage, where I have no clue how they were even married to begin with. My uncle goes along with her whims and delights in everything she does and they enjoy many of the same kinds of things and just gel....her former husband, they practically lived separate lives because they were so different. Her current husband is an introvert and she is an extrovert but they allow each other to be who they are and he isn't secretly annoyed or unhappy with how she is, neither is she secretly trying to get him to be some other kind of way, they both genuinely like how the other is.

 

I do value compatibility and complement, as I have had the experience of what compatibility looks like, and it was a very "easy" relationship in that regard where there was not a whole lot of bending and compromising and severe arguments because we were clashing.

 

However, my foremost concern is that we have compatible primary values...the secondary values, we can vary about but if our primary values aren't in alignment, there is nowhere to go from there unless one or both of us deny who we really are.

 

Ninety percent of all marital arguments are unsolvable. Yep, that's right. You are you and I am me and we are two very different people with different perspectives and 90% of the time we will never see eye-to-eye.

I definitely agree that you can be right or you can be happy and that you have to agree to disagree, but I don't see that as being about compatibility. You can be compatible and still have disagreements and still have to apply that rule.

[Spark1111]

I don't mean to say it's an easy ride, but that if you truly love the difficult parts will be dealt with.

 

Like in Shakespeare's sonnet 116 'it is an ever fixed mark that looks on tempests and is never shaken'

 

The nature of being in love is such that staying in love follows quite doggedly.

 

Shakespeare married Jane Hawthorne (?) I think. I toured her cottage many years ago and sat on the bench in her family's kitchen where he waited to woo her.

 

She was older (26) and gasp, a veritable old maid when he became besotted with her. History tells he never strayed, and remained in love and devoted his entire life.

[Tenacity]

I am a little late on this, sorry.

 

I think you referred to me in your first post, wheelwright.

 

What I said about "love addition" should have been more correctly termed as "relationship" addition or the addition to a person. This is destructive behavior, NOT the kind of "addictive" feeling of being in love.

 

I would say here that one thing that never fails to bother me are the number of people who say that they "love" their spouse but are not "in love" with them any longer.

 

Run for the hills, folks, if APs are saying that to you. What that means is that, using Spark's very good post about relationship stages, the limerance or honeymoon phase is over, and reality has set it. Like she said, it's this phase where A's happen, divorces happen, etc.

 

Relationship (or "person") addition is a dysfunctional behavior where one person is obsessively attached to a person to the point of detriment to the relationship and the emotional and physical well-being of the addicted person. It's a very real addiction. It has nothing to do with love. It means that the addicted person has put unreasonable or unattainable investment into another person, usually to fulfill some void or need within THEMSELF that they don't want to directly deal with.

 

I don't believe in flowery, happily-ever-after "love". I think love is work, and takes commitment, and it's not always like floating on clouds.

 

To wheelwright's point, yes I agree there can be "addictive" love during the honeymoon phase of a relationship; this is limerance. But no matter what, the real world will set it. Love is commitment and a decision. It takes work. People who can't or don't want to work at it, bail at this phase, either by A's or by divorcing. Many of them seek and relish that limerance phase again, especially when real life is so dull and difficult.

 

And by the way, it's when the A ends up in Phase 2 that oftentimes it ends. The ending A partner realizes that the A in the "real world" is not so different than what his/her M is... only, with the A, there is no history, children, marriage, etc. They either seriously reconnect with their spouse at that point, or go in search of limerance once again.

[fooled once]

True love supports people to be at their highest. True love allows two people to join so they can turn out toward the world and extend love toward others. Everyone wins in true love and everyone is supported. Nothing is hidden. It's an open system. It's usually a calm, steady, balanced system. True love is kind to everyone, not just to one special someone. True love is the belief that we can only be lacking what we are not giving. True love is not always easy. It's the kind of thing BB's grandparents had. It can only be found with safe people.

 

Affairs never support people to act from their highest -- there's constant lying, deception, manipulation, isolation, specialness, and even attack. Affair deception causes APs to turn away in isolation from the world, not to join with the world. Affairs are a closed system. Affairs require someone to lose. All affairs lack empathy -- all of them -- causing people to harden and close toward one person in order to soften and open toward a "special" someone. Affairs are insecure and filled with thrilling drama. Affairs are more like addiction, not love, and those in love fog are like junkies who turn on people they once "loved" so they can have their fix with their new obsession -- and they must have their fix at any cost. Affairs are easy. All beginnings are exciting.

 

My view. Probably not a popular one.

 

Breezy, I really liked your post and basically quit reading after it

 

As for the love for a child or children; I can say positively that there is no way I wanted another child after I had my son; he was all I wanted. I knew - for ME - having another child was not an option. I knew he would always be my favorite and another child would not be loved like him.

 

To me - the only unconditional love I have or others can have is for a child. With lovers/partners, love is conditional - you can fall of out of love with someone who is abusive, does drugs, has an affair...whatever your personal 'bottom line' is. For me, there is nothing that my son could do that would ever make me not love him.

 

Love for a child is totally different than love for a spouse, love for a pet or love for a friend/family member.

 

I love my child; but I am in love with my H. And after 13 years, I can easily say each day I am filled with more love for him than the day before and I don't know how that is possible since I feel as if I love him with my entire being. Each day/year we spend together shows me that I had no idea of the depth of my love. Sure I get angry at him and we fuss at each other; but in the pit of my heart, there is pure love for him. I can't image my life without him; and I remember my life before him. Almost as if I have had such a different life prior to him. I do not wish I met him earlier or that we had kids together; because that would mean my son wouldn't be who he is or that we weren't who we were when he and I met. We met and stated dating at the perfect time for us.

 

[MissBee]

Breezy, I really liked your post and basically quit reading after it

 

As for the love for a child or children; I can say positively that there is no way I wanted another child after I had my son; he was all I wanted. I knew - for ME - having another child was not an option. I knew he would always be my favorite and another child would not be loved like him.

 

To me - the only unconditional love I have or others can have is for a child. With lovers/partners, love is conditional - you can fall of out of love with someone who is abusive, does drugs, has an affair...whatever your personal 'bottom line' is. For me, there is nothing that my son could do that would ever make me not love him.

 

Love for a child is totally different than love for a spouse, love for a pet or love for a friend/family member.

 

I love my child; but I am in love with my H. And after 13 years, I can easily say each day I am filled with more love for him than the day before and I don't know how that is possible since I feel as if I love him with my entire being. Each day/year we spend together shows me that I had no idea of the depth of my love. Sure I get angry at him and we fuss at each other; but in the pit of my heart, there is pure love for him. I can't image my life without him; and I remember my life before him. Almost as if I have had such a different life prior to him. I do not wish I met him earlier or that we had kids together; because that would mean my son wouldn't be who he is or that we weren't who we were when he and I met. We met and stated dating at the perfect time for us.

 

 

Be still my jealous heart... Lol, I kid, but that is such a lovely story and I hope to have a man whom I can feel that way about and who feels that way about me

[donnamaybe]

Trying to label addictive love "healthy" is like saying co-dependency is healthy. I guess whatever it takes to convince oneself.

[xxoo]

I don't mean to say it's an easy ride, but that if you truly love the difficult parts will be dealt with.

 

Like in Shakespeare's sonnet 116 'it is an ever fixed mark that looks on tempests and is never shaken'

 

The nature of being in love is such that staying in love follows quite doggedly.

 

Did Shakespeare have a successful longterm love?

 

I disagree that staying in love follows naturally. On the contrary, I KNOW how many forces of life come in to challenge a loving relationship. Couples who do not have the relationship skills to support their love usually see even the strongest flame weaken and die. It is often like being pecked to death by ducks, but ultimately effective. Divorce rates are Exhibit A.

 

This is one place where the difference between romantic love and love for our children is very apparent. There is nothing---NOTHING my children could do that would make me stop loving them. Nothing.

 

My H, otoh? I love him deeply. He is certainly the love of my life. But there are things he could possibly do that would kill my love for him. These things are not in his nature, but the possibility exists that I could stop loving him. The same is not true for our children.

[wheelwright]

Did Shakespeare have a successful longterm love?

 

My H, otoh? I love him deeply. He is certainly the love of my life. But there are things he could possibly do that would kill my love for him. These things are not in his nature, but the possibility exists that I could stop loving him. The same is not true for our children.

 

Spark answered your Shakespeare Q above. It seems he did.

 

I wonder if to some degree all love is unconditional. I used to believe that between a man and a woman it shouldn't be. But the investment part of love can become untenable in certain sad situations.

 

I think with kids, the point at which this investment might need to be withdrawn is so unimaginable, so distant and far away, that it may as well not exist. Or as you say, may not exist at all.

[wheelwright]

Wheelright, your situation is unique to LS.

 

Your affair was actually an exit affair, but you did not wind up with your AP.

 

I think you experienced, for the very first time, compassion and kindness and a type of respect for the first time in your life in your brief affair with a MM.

 

You actually are fairly protective of your stbxH and the way he treated you throughout the marriage. I read between your lines. That is a respectful thing to do for the father of your children and I commend you for it.

 

Where to go from here?

 

Get practical. Your AP is not returning and neither are those feelings of limerance for him that remain unrequited.

 

But you can turn now into a learning experience for yourself to be better prepared for any future relationships you may have.

 

The resources Owl reccommended is a great place to start.

 

Romantic love, true long-term love, follows three stages for everyone.

 

First is limerance or attraction, where hormones put rose-colored glasses on our noses and the sex is off the charts. We are almost incapable of seeing any flaws in our partner, want to share and spend every waking minute with them, cannot imagine a future without them.

 

Hate to say it, but many an affair gets stuck here, for better or for worse.

 

The second stage is called the reality or disillusionment phase. We start to see our partner's flaws and they see our's. We start to feel resentful that our needs are not met, and every argument deteriorates into a power play of who is right, or righter. We start to live in the reality of kids, bills, responsibilities and the stresses they cause to ourselves and our marriage. Romance is too hard to sustain, there isn't enough money or resources; we grow complacent, often distanced and stop communicating effectively.

 

This phase is where many relationships falter and fail. It is also where an affair is most likely to occur, or a divorce.

 

The last phase, for those lucky enough to get there, is called mature love. I know all your warts and wrinkles and you know mine, but we love each other DESPITE it.

 

We start to dote on one another again; have fun again; explore our neglected sexuality again. We talk of everything again and accept each other as we are. It's comfortable, inspiring, and amazing.

 

I hope you learn that no relationship can sustain limerance long-term. I would hate to see you get stuck here. I hope you continue to educate yourself to become the best person you can be for any future relationships.

 

All I know of true love? It does not hurt anyone in its actions. It uplifts, inspires, feels safe and secure....but it does not hurt others.

 

What a lovely post Spark. Thank you for the warmth in it.

 

I agree with many of the things you say, re getting practical for one!

 

I am not sure I am the kind of hopeless 'limerance' seeker my posts seem to make people think I might be. I did after all sustain a 20 year R with H. 4 months of that at the beginning had a limerance like quality. There was much warts and all to it, believe me. There was security and a reasonable degree of safety, but other elements of mature love were lacking.

 

I find the comments on compatability surprising, and will give them some thought. I think people can 'fit' together to greater or lesser degrees. But by that I do not mean all their interests and passions need be shared. And however good the fit, there will be sh*t to go along with it. The better the love (and here I do mean love as an action for once!) and the fit, the easier the sh*t will be dealt with.

 

I also believe that a profound and deep falling in love experience (or limerance as you call it) will offer shades and echoes that resonate for a couple throughout their time together, and sustain couples in times of disillusionment, and that the latter does not go so deep for such couples.

 

Thank you again for your post. A couple of things you said touched me deeply.

[wheelwright]

I just wanted to add on the subject of 'limerance' . When I have felt this, it has not involved overlooking a person's flaws. It has involved seeing flaws quite clearly, but finding the person as a whole beautiful still.

 

Is that allowed in the stages theory?

[wheelwright]

I've read just a smidgen of Alberoni's work...disagreed with it, and felt it was completely impractical, so moved on rather quickly.

 

As far as different kinds of love...sure there is. Simple test...for all that you love your children, or your mother, or your brother/sister do you feel 'romantically inclined' towards them? Of course not!!!

 

Same thing with your best female friend, would be my bet. You 'love' her, but the feelings are simply much different than those you would feel towards someone who is a potential 'love interest'.

 

It's not a different degree of love...it's a different type of love.

 

The two aren't the same at all.

 

I suspect we'll agree to disagree here Owl. As ususal .

 

I am not sure how you are defining romantically inclined - indeed I find it surprising to hear you use such a term .

 

Even friendships have a (so called) limerance phase to them. Which eventually needs to move on to warts and all.

 

I do see differences however, such as in the amount of time and investment we feel we want to dedicate to the Rs. And another is about sexual union and physical comforts such as cuddling. These things make the R different, and create an intensity to the emotion of love which sets these Rs apart from friendships.

 

However wonderful our friendships are, these elements are lacking. Although I remember in my youth, the time and investment were there.

 

I would add that there is possibly an element to romantic inclination which involves something like 'wanting to spend ones life with someone, to grow old and cherish them and be cherished by them'. Perhaps this does make for a qualitative difference, but I am new to the subject as I have said!

 

In fact, I think this does make a difference in the quality. But the feeling of love also has something recognisably similar in all love Rs.

 

Perhaps we can agree after all! You have talked me round (with a caveat, of course).

Edited June 29, 2011 by wheelwright

[wheelwright]

I think you referred to me in your first post, wheelwright.

 

What I said about "love addition" should have been more correctly termed as "relationship" addition or the addition to a person. This is destructive behavior, NOT the kind of "addictive" feeling of being in love.

 

I would say here that one thing that never fails to bother me are the number of people who say that they "love" their spouse but are not "in love" with them any longer.

 

Relationship (or "person") addition is a dysfunctional behavior where one person is obsessively attached to a person to the point of detriment to the relationship and the emotional and physical well-being of the addicted person. It's a very real addiction. It has nothing to do with love. It means that the addicted person has put unreasonable or unattainable investment into another person, usually to fulfill some void or need within THEMSELF that they don't want to directly deal with.

 

I don't believe in flowery, happily-ever-after "love". I think love is work, and takes commitment, and it's not always like floating on clouds.

 

To wheelwright's point, yes I agree there can be "addictive" love during the honeymoon phase of a relationship; this is limerance. But no matter what, the real world will set it. Love is commitment and a decision. It takes work. People who can't or don't want to work at it, bail at this phase, either by A's or by divorcing. Many of them seek and relish that limerance phase again, especially when real life is so dull and difficult.

 

 

Hi Tenacity. Yes it was you I was referring to. You have cleared up my misconception here, thanks.

 

I do think it's important to mark out differences between unhealthy addictions and love which has a wonderful potential to bring happiness.

 

I hope you are doing OK in your current situation. You sound very grounded and strong here, so perhaps you are feeling better.

[Silly_Girl]

I just wanted to add on the subject of 'limerance' . When I have felt this, it has not involved overlooking a person's flaws. It has involved seeing flaws quite clearly, but finding the person as a whole still

 

Almost the exact same words I used with my best friend about 6 months in to the relationship!!

[xxoo]

I just wanted to add on the subject of 'limerance' . When I have felt this, it has not involved overlooking a person's flaws. It has involved seeing flaws quite clearly, but finding the person as a whole beautiful still.

 

Is that allowed in the stages theory?

 

It think that fits in. In the beginning, the flaws are commonly minimized--even considered part of what makes the person unique and special.

 

For me, it was 2-7 years later when his "special" way of chewing got oh-so annoying Along with a few other things that became "issues". For others, some issues become intolerable, or ar realized to be unacceptable.

 

Now, at year 20ish, I still see the same flaws, but differently again. Annoying, but who cares? Leave him be.

[xxoo]

Shakespeare married Jane Hawthorne (?) I think. I toured her cottage many years ago and sat on the bench in her family's kitchen where he waited to woo her.

 

She was older (26) and gasp, a veritable old maid when he became besotted with her. History tells he never strayed, and remained in love and devoted his entire life.

 

He married Anne Hathaway, but close!

 

And, many historians differ on the subject of his fidelity and undying love. As with all marriages, only Will and Anne know for sure!

http://www.pbs.org/shakespeare/players/player23.html

[xxoo]

You know what I have read post-affair?

 

Ninety percent of all marital arguments are unsolvable. Yep, that's right. You are you and I am me and we are two very different people with different perspectives and 90% of the time we will never see eye-to-eye.

 

With troubled relationships, being right becomes more important than being happy as we need and try to sway our partner to our way of doing things. In happy relationships, they defer to the partner who feels most passionately about an issue. They try to always meet each other's needs.

 

The experts will tell you that compatibility is highly over-rated. You can be right, or you can be happy.

 

Long term love is about RESPECT and APPRECIATION for each other as differing human beings, and the ability to communicate KINDLY our disagreements. It is about putting FIRST your partner and they reciprocate in kind.

 

Psycologists and scientists, and evolutionary biologists now study the few and the rare that have remained gloriously partnered over the long haul.

 

Compatibility they have determined is, believe it or not, not a factor.

 

This could be its own thread; a lot to think about.

 

I wonder how many long-married people here relate to the stat that 90% of arguments are unsolvable?

 

I definitely feel that we come to mutually agreeable solutions MOST of the time.....but it is never my way or his way. We consider my way and his way starting points of the conversation, not ending points. OUR way is almost always a much better idea than what I or he thought of alone.