'Woe-is-me' men - would you really rather have been a woman?

[somedude81]

I don't think you would've had a higher chance of having several LTRs, to be honest.

And why do you say that?

 

The very nature of being pursued means one has many opportunities. And of course the woman is able to do a little pursuing herself if she feels like it.

[grkBoy]

The problem mainly is too many men see that "getting the interest of the opposite sex" as enough. Thus they see how even average women can get dates with men while many average men cannot get dates with women and think life is unfair.

 

Yet many of these "woe is me" guys seem to overlook is how many times women start up with men and then things fail because while the woman wants a RL, the guy only wants a good time. Even the reality is while men get tossed into the friendzone, women end up being FBs...often times not even knowing it. They'll be seeing a guy for weeks and even sleeping with him, thinking it's a RL...then he'll suddenly drop the bomb on her that he doesn't consider her "his girlfriend".

 

FINALLY...I honestly think (and I speak from my own experience) that the "woe is me" guys keep clinging on to the myth that people should magically accept one another "as is" and life should be a forced choice of "upper eschelon" or "plain ol me".

 

I was a "woe is me" doormat nice guy. I didn't become a "bad boy" or something. I grew a spine and some balls. I stopped looking at women who continually pick bad men as the example of femdom, and I especially stopped seeing them as "oh if she would only pick me I'd make her so happy in life"

 

I stopped feeling sorry for or pitying these women. This is something I constantly urge guys on. If a woman keeps chasing one douchebag after the next, don't think she's misguided or lost or a "princess that needs saving". See them as a waste and not worth your time. They are the future "never married" knocked up single moms who have lives full of drama.

 

After that, I (and I will preach this often) changed who I am, but not changed everything. I'm still a nice guy, but I am nice to women who deserve it. If she flirts and friendzones me while chasing jerks and complaining to me about them...I don't lend her $10 when she's short one week. I don't help her move her sofa. I don't pick her up and go cruising because she's lonely and all her friends are out with their SO's. I don't give her a shoulder to cry on either. She asks me for advice, I give her hard truth...the usual hard truth women like this don't like to hear.

 

I took interest in ME. I looked and learned how to dress better, carry myself better, I prioritized myself over love and relationships. That means I worked on DJ mixes, blogs, photography, cooking, and especially my career first. I stopped worrying if I "had someone" and stopped making it a massive priority.

 

I worked out and got a bit thinner and more healthy. I learned to dress and style myself in a way that makes me not only more appealing to women, but also made me feel better about myself. I went out and did things for my own enjoyment and not out of the hope I'd meet some single female.

 

That's why I started catching the interest of women...as opposed to me clawing my way to get a date with one.

 

PLUS...I found the strength to launch ANY GIRL (even my girlfriend) if they dare to disrespect me, play games with me, or get all immature spoiled drama princess. I learned to value me without disrespecting others.

[somedude81]

Women get into FWB situations with guys because they let it happen. I have no sympathy for a girl who is in that situation and is upset because they want more than sex.

 

Nobody made her sleep with him. Also most likely she's even in that situation because she's trying to get a player guy.

 

This is from a different thread.

I have some very physically attractive friends, and they do tend to jump from man to man quickly and easily. They chase the hot player types who treat them poorly, and ignore the average guys who are not as cute or exciting to them. They also fight over the cutest men when we go out. It all looks completely ridiculous to me.

 

I also have no sympathy for a man who has been friendzoned by a douchebag chaser. He needs to wake up and go after a different type of girl.

 

My heart goes out to the guys who are going after the average looking "good-girls" and having no luck with them at all. They are the girls they should be dating, and getting constantly rejected really sucks.

[vsmini]

PLUS...I found the strength to launch ANY GIRL (even my girlfriend) if they dare to disrespect me, play games with me, or get all immature spoiled drama princess. I learned to value me without disrespecting others.

 

Dear grkBoy:

 

More men (and women) need to be like you.

-VSmini

[rafallus]

Nah

 

Had they become women, they'd find other stuff to bitch about.

 

What's the problem though? If they annoy you, you can add them to ignore list. Other males should be happy whiners exist - wusses are no competition.

[AD1980]

Men complain in the context of dating and relatonships this is a dating site afterall i dont know why a Man would bring up womens hardships in other facets of life and how its relevant to this forum

[Els]

And why do you say that?

 

The very nature of being pursued means one has many opportunities. And of course the woman is able to do a little pursuing herself if she feels like it.

 

Not really, no. If you are a socially-awkward, average-looking, quiet male now, you will be the same as a female. So if you are never pursued by a decent guy looking for a R, what then? Society looks with even more judgmental pity down upon the women who pursue and are left in the dust - it's a 'not only is she so desperate that she actually chased him, she didn't succeed!' thing. At least for men it's 'Well, at least he gave it his best shot'. The 'men must pursue' belief is a double-edged sword.

 

Fewer males, at least in their youth, are interested in LTRs than females are.

[Queen Zenobia]

Not really, no. If you are a socially-awkward, average-looking, quiet male now, you will be the same as a female. So if you are never pursued by a decent guy looking for a R, what then? Society looks with even more judgmental pity down upon the women who pursue and are left in the dust - it's a 'not only is she so desperate that she actually chased him, she didn't succeed!' thing. At least for men it's 'Well, at least he gave it his best shot'. The 'men must pursue' belief is a double-edged sword.

 

Fewer males, at least in their youth, are interested in LTRs than females are.

 

From observing the behavior of friends and colleagues (as well as myself) I've noticed that a lot of those "relationship minded" females got married rather early (usually before age 25). The ones that didn't were usually not very social, not in a hurry to get married or were simply unlucky. That usually meant that similarly minded guys were sort of left in no man's land: the "nice" women their own age were either impossible to find or were already committed to someone else, they didn't have a lot of life experience to pursue older women and the rest of the women really didn't want to be tied down yet. Combined with the fact that there are more young males than females (as another poster pointed out) I can completely understand the difficulties that some mid to late twenties males can feel.

 

Still though, I don't think that the difficulty is a one-way street.

[Mrlonelyone]

As the only out MTF transie on this board I can speak to this like no one else.

 

Being a man or a woman, each has its advantages and disadvantages. When I add them all up they are all equal.*

 

When it comes to dating, women get more dates in general than men. Women decide if a date will happen or not.

 

Men on the other hand decide if dating will become a relationship. Women are as driven to have LTR's as men are to have good times. Women have to date allot of losers, who don't want RL'ships, to get a relationship; Men have to ask out allot of women just to get a date.

 

The best most attractive players only get a yes 1/3 times they ask a woman. For most men it's more like 1/10 or even less often.

 

*The reasons that some men do for all intents and most purposes become women are complex. It's not for some societal advantage. On that point everyone agree's.

[Els]

Thanks for your viewpoint, Mrlonelyone! Very much appreciated. I wasn't really talking about choosing to undertake gender change surgery, but rather just choosing to be born as a man or woman, if you could. With all due respect, being a trans female is very different from being a biological female, and vice versa. For example, you do not have menses, menopause, PMS, get pregnant from sex, or have most of a woman's biological woes, and IIRC you retain most of your physical strength. That is not to say you don't face unique problems of your own, of course. The factors involved in choosing to change one's gender for real, IRL, are also definitely more complex than just 'which has the advantage', as you stated.

 

For example, had it not been for the wonderful guy in my life right now, I would unapologetically say that I would probably have had an easier life if I had been born a man, and thus would answer 'yes' had my own question been reversed to me. But that does not mean that I'd do a sex change if my bf and I split - that procedure is not one that I would ever consider.

 

I think your observations about men and women and fun times vs LTRs are spot on though. That is precisely why I told somedude that his chances of being in an LTR would probably not have increased if he had been female.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Elswyth

[somedude81]

Not really, no. If you are a socially-awkward, average-looking, quiet male now, you will be the same as a female. So if you are never pursued by a decent guy looking for a R, what then?

Being a socially awkward female is hardly the romantic death sentence as it is to be a socially awkward male.

 

Of course the social butterfly girls get asked out a lot more than the shy girls do, but the shy girls still get asked out. And they still have the power to decide if they want to date or not.

 

BTW, I'm not as quiet as you make me out to be.

 

 

Society looks with even more judgmental pity down upon the women who pursue and are left in the dust - it's a 'not only is she so desperate that she actually chased him, she didn't succeed!' thing. At least for men it's 'Well, at least he gave it his best shot'. The 'men must pursue' belief is a double-edged sword.

Things are not nearly that dramatic. That's beside the point that women don't need to ask guys out, all they have to do is drop slightly obvious hints that they are interested in a guy.

Fewer males, at least in their youth, are interested in LTRs than females are.

I'm not really sure about that. I've known many guys that wanted a steady relationship and girls that just wanted to party.

[Dust]

Here are my thoughts on the subject. A guy like Somedude81 who is painfully shy and for the most part unable to make a move would do better as a women. If you are a guy confident enough to approach, talk to, ask out, and make moves on the women you like you will do better as a man.

 

Basically its like at the low spectrum of power women have the advantage but on the high spectrum men do.

 

Somedude81 I could probably get you a gf in a week just by going out and yelling to random girls you found cute “give him you’re number.” Seriously get out there and start trying for once in your life. If you want fly me out to Cali and pay for my hotel and expenses.

 

The way women get dates involves less confidence. All a girl has to do is be willing to say “Hi” or just smile in a guys direction and she’s already done more work then most. I mean many girls don’t do anything and get messaged and asked out in person.

 

A guy for the most part can’t get a way with a quick “Hi” or a smile in a girls direction. Most guys have to actually ask a girl out, and then make the first physical move. Guys who are to shy to talk to and ask out the girls they like will have trouble. Guys who are shy and focus on only one girl who probably doesn’t like them back for long periods of time also miss out. I mean a shy girl even if ugly will probably get asked out and hit on by more then one guy if she does even as little as put up an internet profile… even if she is to shy to put up pics or info. A guy on the other hand shouldn’t rely on internet dating (or even use internet dating) and will be lucky if a handful of girls even approach him in his life let a lone out right ask them for their number and out on a date. Very rare for the girl to make the first move. I think I’ve had one girl maybe 2 try to kiss me before I kissed them in my entire life. I’ve never had a girl ask me out on a date but have had a handful of girls come and flirt with me with out me having to first talk to them.

 

And there you have it.

[Woggle]

This is a dating board so of course men will vent. I sometimes think that certain women here would prefer it if only women were allowed to post. Here are some advantages a woman has.

 

If a couple with children gets divorced the woman usually gets the kids and the man will be lucky if he gets weekend visits.

 

A woman can attack a man with a knife but if he pushes her off of him he can go to jail. I actually know a man who went through this.

 

In a divorce a woman gets to be the sympathetic victim no matter how wrong she is.

[somedude81]

I'm not painfully shy. Though I may take some time to ask out a girl and I have no experience putting moves on women.

 

My problem is that I want to get to know a girl before I ask her out and that I tend to get fixated on one girl and then get very depressed when she rejects me.

 

And no you're tactic won't work. While it may get me a number and maybe even a date, I'll just end up getting friendzoned. In the end, it doesn't even matter.

 

What's really messing with my head is that I already found the girl I want. Heck we even had a "date" yesterday. But I know that nothing short of clubbing her over the head and dragging her to my cave will let me actually be with her.

 

All I'm doing is torturing myself.

[Dust]

My problem is that I want to get to know a girl before I ask her out and that I tend to get fixated on one girl and then get very depressed when she rejects me.

 

That does sound like a problem. Why not get to know a girl over a romantic dinner and then seal it with a kiss? If it doesn't work out don't take it personal afterall she knows less about you then pretty much every one else in your life and she'll probably run into you when you're dating some other girl and regret missing. What I'm saying is you know you shouldn't care so much.

 

And no you're tactic won't work. While it may get me a number and maybe even a date' date=' I'll just end up getting friendzoned. In the end, it doesn't even matter.[/quote']

 

I agree the tactic is lame but my point was its miles ahead of where you are now and yes it would work. Your main problems are that you don't go out on dates and that you obsess over one girl. The friendzone doesn't exist, its like saying you're stuck in the gay zone with a guy and giving him bj's.

 

What's really messing with my head is that I already found the girl I want. Heck we even had a "date" yesterday. But I know that nothing short of clubbing her over the head and dragging her to my cave will let me actually be with her.

 

All I'm doing is torturing myself.

 

Some times you have to be willing to risk complete and utter rejection in order to get a girl. Be bold, get close real close and kiss her. Start rubbing her leg or something. Hold her. Be willing to try and make her uncomfortable some girls need to feel like you are the one trying. (for all those who are going to start talking about rape somedude81 doesn't seem like a rapist and my advice can niether create or stop a rapist)

[OliveOyl]

Didn't you forget the big female advantage?

 

Women, as a general rule, live longer than men.

[TheLawmaker]

^ That is probably because women put men through so much heartache, that they die way before their time.

[samspade]

I think that most of them do it because complaining is easier than doing something about it.

 

Exactly. There are a lot of men out there who would rather bytch than take action. A lot of men who think that if they just keep being the White Knight/nice guy, eventually some woman will come around.

 

I didn't bother reading the OP's laundry list of complaints about being a woman. Who cares? Just more complaining but from a female this time.

[Jynxx]

First of all, I don't buy in the 'poor me' bs, things have evolved the way they are for a good reason and you can't change evolutions forces. I wouldn't want to be a woman, but your list is very far off in that you forgot the most important things and focuses on ridiculously unimportant details (would you really want to be born a different sex if that meant you could fart amongs friends?)

 

-Virtually all women reproduce. There are alot more men that don't reproduce and whose genes extinct when their life ends. (I had the exact statistics somewhere, not sure where so can't link to them, but I believe women reproduce just over 95% and men under 80%). This obviously means less frustrations, less chances of failing in life.

 

-A child of a woman is 100% sure to be her own child. This means 0% chance of putting literally a lifetime of effort and support into someone elses genes. A man is never 100% sure. This is huge and one of the things that I would concider "unfair" if I believed there was such a concept in evolution. Granted, science is closing the gap on this.

 

-A woman can get laid whenever she wants, with basically whoever she wants. If she is average looking, she can get her wealthy high status boss who's married to a model to bang her in the restroom during lunch. No woman realises how good they have it with this. Getting laid as a man, if you're average and are looking for an average partner, costs alot of planning, effort and mostly luck. Also, women can sleep around and not get judged if you don't make it too obvious.

 

-If you're not having a good time, someone will notice and take care of you. If you're thirsty, someone will get you a drink. If you're lonely, someone will come talk to you. If you're bored, someone will make you laugh. If a man is having a downer his friends will cheer him up for a while to not let him ruin their time, and women will stay away as if he got some contageous disease.

 

-If you have bad sex, it's only your own fault. You can tell a guy he's not getting it in again if you don't enjoy it, and you can just lay on your back and not contribute and still be sure he will do whatever is in his power to make sure you enjoy;). If you have bad sex with a woman, it still is better than no sex and she is aware of that, making her less likely to put much effort into it.

[rafallus]

What makes you think women want to get laid?

 

in relationships maybe, but few women really want sex with a random guy. Even in relationships its not a guarantee that women want to have sex.

 

If you can't make her horny, or picked some lady with low sex drive, then I agree with you.

[krz12]

The grass is always greener on the other side.

[musemaj11]

Didn't you forget the big female advantage?

 

Women, as a general rule, live longer than men.

Because men tend to lead a much more stressful life.

 

A study shows that female breadwinners die quicker than other women as well.

[Els]

Didn't you forget the big female advantage?

 

Women, as a general rule, live longer than men.

 

There was a joke that it wasn't really longer, it just feels longer.

 

All that aside, a large reason for that is because there are far, far more male alcoholics, drug addicts and smokers than women. Men also as a general rule tend to live more dangerously (speeding, fights, etc).

 

Exactly. There are a lot of men out there who would rather bytch than take action. A lot of men who think that if they just keep being the White Knight/nice guy, eventually some woman will come around.

 

I didn't bother reading the OP's laundry list of complaints about being a woman. Who cares? Just more complaining but from a female this time.

 

Which is why you missed the last paragraph. Proving a point is slightly different from complaining. If a rich guy posted here and said, "I hate being rich! Life sucks for rich people", and you posted a list of the disadvantages middle-class people have as a counter to that, I would not really consider it to be a complaint. Perhaps you would, I don't know.

[Els]

First of all, I don't buy in the 'poor me' bs, things have evolved the way they are for a good reason and you can't change evolutions forces. I wouldn't want to be a woman, but your list is very far off in that you forgot the most important things and focuses on ridiculously unimportant details (would you really want to be born a different sex if that meant you could fart amongs friends?)

 

-Virtually all women reproduce. There are alot more men that don't reproduce and whose genes extinct when their life ends. (I had the exact statistics somewhere, not sure where so can't link to them, but I believe women reproduce just over 95% and men under 80%). This obviously means less frustrations, less chances of failing in life.

 

-A child of a woman is 100% sure to be her own child. This means 0% chance of putting literally a lifetime of effort and support into someone elses genes. A man is never 100% sure. This is huge and one of the things that I would concider "unfair" if I believed there was such a concept in evolution. Granted, science is closing the gap on this.

 

-A woman can get laid whenever she wants, with basically whoever she wants. If she is average looking, she can get her wealthy high status boss who's married to a model to bang her in the restroom during lunch. No woman realises how good they have it with this. Getting laid as a man, if you're average and are looking for an average partner, costs alot of planning, effort and mostly luck. Also, women can sleep around and not get judged if you don't make it too obvious.

 

-If you're not having a good time, someone will notice and take care of you. If you're thirsty, someone will get you a drink. If you're lonely, someone will come talk to you. If you're bored, someone will make you laugh. If a man is having a downer his friends will cheer him up for a while to not let him ruin their time, and women will stay away as if he got some contageous disease.

 

-If you have bad sex, it's only your own fault. You can tell a guy he's not getting it in again if you don't enjoy it, and you can just lay on your back and not contribute and still be sure he will do whatever is in his power to make sure you enjoy;). If you have bad sex with a woman, it still is better than no sex and she is aware of that, making her less likely to put much effort into it.

 

I completely disagree with the last two statements, and I am sure most women will. But okay, assuming you're right... why would you not choose to be a woman if you could have, before you were born, if you truly believe women have the 'advantage' in life? THAT is the crux of my question.

[PinkInTheLimo]

I add on disadvantage of being a woman: the different way in which men and women are labeled once they are over 40. I am shocked at the incredibly negative way in which women are described and treated once they have reached 40. It's an incredible double standard. If you would believe that you are indeed as undesirable as a 40+ woman, you would become a nun.

It's bloody hard to still think of yourself as attractive and capable if the media keeps repeating what a flawed human being you have become just because of your number of years. I've always had a healthy dose of selfconfidence and some great older women friends who I appreciate and adore, so I'm not afraid to become older, but it nevertheless bugs me how older women are discriminated against.