'Woe-is-me' men - would you really rather have been a woman?

June 30, 2011

Mr. 'Woe-is-me' accepts being friendzoned because it's either that or having no female companionship whatsoever.

How many women do you think sleep with men just because, based on their experience, they believe it is either that, or not stand a chance with him at all?

Sure, sex is enjoyable, but I think a woman would rather have a man 'friendzone' her than have a man have sex with her and then dump her. Just because YOU prefer it the other way does not make their viewpoint any less valid.

I would rather make a new friend with a guy than have an ONS with one. A good vibrator is usually better than a ONS guy who doesn't know all the ins and outs about pleasing you as an individual.

June 30, 2011

Sorry but that doesn't make this 'woe-is-me' guy feel any better. If women didn't enjoy sex at all, maybe it would make a difference.

Then it should tell the "woe is me" guys that if they want to be the guy who gets laid easily, they have to hit the gym, dress GQ, and build a swagger that attracts women.

I don't care if you want a relationship or just sex...you can't get to home place by being the dull bland boring average Joe nice guy. Even my own self-improvement was based on taking the positive traits of the "bad boys" and utilizing them. Being the "attractive guy" who doesn't turn into a royal jerk after he gets laid.

I don't know your story, but the point is if a guy is dressing like a slob, looks bland, can't carry a conversation, doesn't have a lot of interesting things going on in his life, and prioritizes dating too much...he won't get anywhere. Look at the guys who succeed and learn from them.

The closest thing a guy can get to that situation, is being friendzoned by a girl. And the guy gets absolutely nothing out of it.

Right, but ask a girl who wanted a guy to be her BF...and found out he only saw her as sex. If she just wanted to get laid, then she got something out of it. However, if she opened herself up physically and emotionally to find out later she's a notch on his bedpost, it'll hurt.

The guy version of this is when you take a girl out who shows you massive interest, you spend money on her, time, etc, things seem to go wonderfully...and then you find out when you dropped her off that night she went over to some ex's apartment to bang him. That she thought you were cool, but you were only dinner and a fun night out to her. That's the metaphor.

All the trouble about a girl not knowing what the guy wants before she sleeps with him can be solved with a little communication beforehand, intuition and common sense. If a guy has a reputation of being a player, he's probably not going to commit. But of course she'll sleep with him anyways then complain that he just wants sex. Duh.

I agree. Many times the red flags can pop up, but many will overlook them. However, it's surprising how many guys now can put up a good lie...or they start up wanting a RL, then decide at the spur of the moment to move on. I'm not vilifying guys here, but stating that it's not always the case of "she should have known better".

Mr. 'Woe-is-me' accepts being friendzoned because it's either that or having no female companionship whatsoever.

Agreed. If more "woe is me" guys would reject the FZ, it would be a big start in them getting the backbone they need.

June 30, 2011

I would not want to be a woman on the single notion that I do not want to sacrafice intelligence alone.

June 30, 2011

I would not want to be a woman on the single notion that I do not want to sacrafice intelligence alone.

Yeah, because none of the women alive today can spell 'sacrifice' either or build proper English sentences either.

June 30, 2011

Sorry, you completely misunderstand family law in the United States. A woman will typically see her living standard go down after divorce. A man sees his go up.
A woman generally does not hold the cards of access to employment paying what the man can make.
Either party to a divorce can attempt to rake the other over the coals. If the man controls the money, or more money, he can more easily hire a lawyer and do better in the battle (if that's what he chooses to make it).

Women more often than not make out like absolute bandits in a divorce. Usually the shellshocked husband doesn't fight too hard.

The vast majority of divorces are initiated BY women... which means they are spending the money to get a Gloria Allred style lawyer. Though in some rare instances the guys do put up a good fight.

There is no expectation that child support or alimony should be limited to the bare necessities. Instead, the target is to maintain the same lifestyle enjoyed during the marriage, insofar as that is possible. For women it typically is not possible. If you don't agree with the laws that mandate attempted maintenance of the children's or ex-spouse's living standards, take that up with your legislature and see if you can get the "bare necessities only" standard enacted. (What arguments would you make as to why this is fair?)

It's fair for this reason. If I want to buy shoes for my kids... why do I have to give money to someone else and HOPE they buy shoes. That's not right.

Nobody is entitled to a lifestyle. When you marry into a lifestyle that doesn't mean you are entitled to keep it once you divorce. If you don't like the reduction... go get a job... or a better job.

Any person who can't pay child support or alimony due to financial hardship can petition to have the new circumstances taken into account. Prison is an extremely rare option, only for those with the ability to pay who persistently flout their obligations.

I've seen guys go to jail for a month on several occasions. One because he lost his job and the other because he was forced to go to part time.

It takes MONEY to petition the court for a reduction... it also takes up to 1 year.

I don't believe any state retains laws discriminating between male and female parents with respect to child support and alimony. (Any such remnant laws can easily be attacked on the basis of equal protection.)
All in all, the post quoted above is a great example of a "woe-is-me" man story, completely untenable when compared with the facts. Divorce is painful and troubling for both parties in the vast majority of cases.

Divorce doesn't suck for both parties. It usually just sucks for the one who is being divorced... or the one with the most to lose.

Don't call this "woe is me"... this issue is fact. I've been through a divorce and I know just how it goes. They need to make BIG changes to this system... and fast.

June 30, 2011

I should also add that Paternity Fraud is not considered a crime in this country. In fact a guy can't get out from child support even if he proves fraud.

June 30, 2011

I wouldn't wanna be a woman solely because I don't want to have to suck dick.

um well - - you don't necessarily have to be a woman in order to do that. not all men are attracted women....

June 30, 2011

I would not want to be a woman on the single notion that I do not want to sacrafice intelligence alone.

hahaha.. that must be why i'm single

in factthe ex even asked me to tone down my vocabulary in because it made him feel dumb

June 30, 2011

I think that most of them do it because complaining is easier than doing something about it.

agree.....:bunny:

June 30, 2011

How many women do you think sleep with men just because, based on their experience, they believe it is either that, or not stand a chance with him at all?

Sure, sex is enjoyable, but I think a woman would rather have a man 'friendzone' her than have a man have sex with her and then dump her. Just because YOU prefer it the other way does not make their viewpoint any less valid.

I would rather make a new friend with a guy than have an ONS with one. A good vibrator is usually better than a ONS guy who doesn't know all the ins and outs about pleasing you as an individual.

Then don't sleep with the guy. It's not complicated. Just be friends.

If the girl thinks that the only chance she has with a guy is if she sleeps with him quickly, I think she's better off walking away. There's bound to be several other guys who are interested in her.

Then it should tell the "woe is me" guys that if they want to be the guy who gets laid easily, they have to hit the gym, dress GQ, and build a swagger that attracts women.

You talk as if getting the money/knowing how to dress GQ and building swagger were easy.

Newsflash, they're not.

I don't care if you want a relationship or just sex...you can't get to home place by being the dull bland boring average Joe nice guy.

And that is what is wrong with the world.

What makes things even more interesting, I have several small things that are wrong with me that basically make it impossible to attract women. I'm basically worse than the average joe nice guy, and there is very little I can do about it.

Agreed. If more "woe is me" guys would reject the FZ, it would be a big start in them getting the backbone they need.

I really wish I could do that. Unfortunately, I am terribly lonely.

It f-king sucks that the best thing I can hope for is that the girl I'm crazy about will actually let me spend time with her. I know that she doesn't like me, but I have nothing else. No other girls have even bothered to give me the time of day.

I don't even know why I bother going on.

Odds are I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. I just don't see the point.

Edited June 30, 2011 by somedude81

June 30, 2011

I don't even know why I bother going on.

Are you thinking about suicide again? I feel like running away from the world myself some times. (not killing myself though) You know just want to get away from the stress and shame of it all. Right now I’m dealing with the fact that I don’t have the job I want and I feel like it could take a while to get it. The problem is I feel great shame seeing every one else around me do better like my class mates and such. We both need to try harder. You with girls, me with getting the job I deserve. For me that’s going to mean applying to a lot of jobs that I like, putting out quality work in every application/resume/cover letter I send out. Not retreating from reality but observing it and tailoring my approach to each thing I try. Also I need to stop being ashamed and afraid of rejection and really get out there and network. Let people know I need a job. I’m just embarrassed.

It’s not desperate for you to go out there and flirt and enjoy conversations with every cute girl you see. It’s not desperate but cool for you to be real and ask out girls you like. Make moves on them. Be in moment be with them and enjoy it instead of off in your head worried about rejection. If you spend one weekend with a girl and you have a great time don’t stress out over if she finds another guy or just stops liking you. You’ve never been in a relationship but let me tell you having things end abruptly after a few months of dating and sex hurts so much more then getting rejected by a girl you’ve never even kissed. I’m not saying this to scare you I’m saying this to let you know once you’ve allowed yourself to be open like that with another person it changes you for the better and you won’t go back to your old ways. You’ll evolve. I can survive being dumped. What I couldn’t survive is not being able to connect with people anymore. So trust in yourself and go for it. Make great friends of men and women. With the women show them your passion. Feel free to grab them and kiss them like you’ve always wanted. When you feel it they probably are to.

June 30, 2011

somedude81, you're the typical "woe is me" guy.

You're always making excuses.

Seriously, I've encountered loads of guys like you on these boards. I give an answer and they simply make excuses. Men like us were told always that if what we're doing isn't working, then do something else.

I did something else...which is why I found success.

If I sound insulting, it's not my intention. I simply want to shake you and others like you out of this notion that it's impossible and destroy the myth that all women just want douchebags who treat them like garbage.

The way you speak, you have a low opinion of yourself, the world, and you've simply given up and taken the tiny scraps the wrong people throw you. I can go on and on all day with you, but it seems to be pointless.

You have to want it...and be willing to drastically change things in your life to get it.

June 30, 2011

Again? It's a daily thought. Just on some days it's suppressed better than others. Right now this girl is my only hope. And when things fail with her, that will be it.

I'm tired of meeting new girls and getting nowhere with them. I will be thirty in two months. I've had enough. I have no hope at all that things will be better 5, 10 or 15 years from now. I'm done trying.

The only thing that keeps me going is the random pat on the head I get from her. Sooner or later, even that will stop. Or I'll finally accept that it will never get past that.

You’ve never been in a relationship but let me tell you having things end abruptly after a few months of dating and sex hurts so much more then getting rejected by a girl you’ve never even kissed.

'Tis better to have loved and lost

Than never to have loved at all. -Alfred Lord Tennyson

There are so many things I have never experienced, things that I most likely never will.

somedude81, you're the typical "woe is me" guy.

You're always making excuses.

Seriously, I've encountered loads of guys like you on these boards. I give an answer and they simply make excuses.

Your answers are not enough. I have heard, "get rich and learn game" a thousand times.

I have tried many things and all have failed.

you have a low opinion of yourself, the world,

You are right about that. I hate myself and this world. I feel as if I never belonged here. And nobody will miss me. Unfortunately my immediate family will, and that's the only reason I haven't done anything. But beyond them, nobody gives a sh*t about me.

As I said before, I'm going to turn 30 in two months. Most likely I will be by myself on that day. The most I can expect is a phone call from my parents and some Facebook posts. How pathetic is that?

Edited June 30, 2011 by somedude81

July 1, 2011

Even child support awarded is not reliably paid. According to the Census Bureau, in 2005 only 46% of custodial parents received the full child support the court had ordered. Twenty-three percent received nothing. http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/p60-234.pdf

Custodial parents include women AND men.

In most circumstances the women is awarded custody of the children. This happened to my brother, he wanted to be part of his daughters life and she moved 140 miles away. He fought, and fought he wanted half custody. By all accounts he was a good father and he had his child taken from him.

July 1, 2011

Women more often than not make out like absolute bandits in a divorce. Usually the shellshocked husband doesn't fight too hard.

The vast majority of divorces are initiated BY women... which means they are spending the money to get a Gloria Allred style lawyer. Though in some rare instances the guys do put up a good fight.

It's fair for this reason. If I want to buy shoes for my kids... why do I have to give money to someone else and HOPE they buy shoes. That's not right.

Nobody is entitled to a lifestyle. When you marry into a lifestyle that doesn't mean you are entitled to keep it once you divorce. If you don't like the reduction... go get a job... or a better job.

I've seen guys go to jail for a month on several occasions. One because he lost his job and the other because he was forced to go to part time.

It takes MONEY to petition the court for a reduction... it also takes up to 1 year.

Divorce doesn't suck for both parties. It usually just sucks for the one who is being divorced... or the one with the most to lose.

Don't call this "woe is me"... this issue is fact. I've been through a divorce and I know just how it goes. They need to make BIG changes to this system... and fast.

Actually only 1-2% more of divorces are intiated by women than men. It's almost an even 50-50 split.

July 1, 2011

I should also add that Paternity Fraud is not considered a crime in this country. In fact a guy can't get out from child support even if he proves fraud.

Wow is this true? Shocking if it is!

I hope it's not like that in my country.

July 1, 2011

Wow is this true? Shocking if it is!

I hope it's not like that in my country.

http://blog.chron.com/momhouston/2011/06/houston-man-must-pay-child-support-for-kid-who-is-not-his/

Texas is changing this law, but many other states still make it so you have to keep paying after you've proven the child isn't yours.

July 1, 2011

http://blog.chron.com/momhouston/2011/06/houston-man-must-pay-child-support-for-kid-who-is-not-his/

Texas is changing this law, but many other states still make it so you have to keep paying after you've proven the child isn't yours.

That's f*cken unbelievable!

How exactly does a law like that pass?

How does a woman who acts on such a law sleep at night?

July 1, 2011

My sister takes advantage of such a law.

Don't get me wrong, I think the guy who's paying child support is a worthless sack of $(%. So I'm not entirely bummed over it.

So your sister got knocked up by some other guy and she is making another guy paying for it and you are fine with it?

Shame on you dude.

And is this the same sister you told me about who can't find a decent guy? If yes then no wonder.

July 1, 2011

How many women do you think sleep with men just because, based on their experience, they believe it is either that, or not stand a chance with him at all?

Sure, sex is enjoyable, but I think a woman would rather have a man 'friendzone' her than have a man have sex with her and then dump her. Just because YOU prefer it the other way does not make their viewpoint any less valid.

I would rather make a new friend with a guy than have an ONS with one. A good vibrator is usually better than a ONS guy who doesn't know all the ins and outs about pleasing you as an individual.

That's like stage 2 or stage 3 concern. Once you meet a dude, then you can fret about that kind of stuff. Saying that there are stage 3 problems to a guy who is stuck on stage 1 really isn't helpful. Of course, neither is the constant complaining.

July 1, 2011

My first girlfriend was at age 22, and it fell apart because she honestly needed a therapist more than a boyfriend. I tried for many other women through college, but I was coming off to them as the shy insecure doormat nice guy, and these women wanted masculine fun loose outgoing MEN. Forget "bad boy", they just wanted guys who came off as MEN. That means they're not afraid to do things, and don't always play by the rules. They like to have fun, and not adhere to some strict morality code. Some women love the guys who are more a challenge, but most women simply want the guy to look and feel like a man next to her, not "one of the girls".

This is really difficult at 22, and really, really, really difficult at 25+; if you don't really know the 'rules' really, how exactly can you behave like that? This is one of those things that feeds back and becomes harder over time.

It's really difficult to be George Clooney when you're just winging it on the fly.

The only option is trial and error, and each trial takes you 3-6 months.

I say this as someone who is 24 and sort of in the same boat. I'm not trying to be a woe-is-me person and I know I've made progress but there's certain things that inevitably will frustrate you.

July 1, 2011

Actually only 1-2% more of divorces are intiated by women than men. It's almost an even 50-50 split.

I've never seen that statistic, while I see 75% quoted often... and it makes sense to me.

Statistics are both incredibly useful and nearly worthless at the same time.

Can you show me where you got the 50/50 stat? I'm actually interested in seeing what it shows.

That's f*cken unbelievable!
How exactly does a law like that pass?
How does a woman who acts on such a law sleep at night?

On giant piles of money.

I sometimes think for most women conscience is tied directly to consequences. If there is no fear of consequences then there really is no feeling of guilt.

My sister takes advantage of such a law.
Don't get me wrong, I think the guy who's paying child support is a worthless sack of $(%. So I'm not entirely bummed over it.
However, if it happened to me, or to a guy that was genuinely good, I would be angry.

You should push your sister to at least inform the man that he isn't the real father. It won't affect the child support if he signed the birth certificate... so she can be honest without fear. She has the U.S. government and every feminist organization in the world behind her 100%.

July 1, 2011

I've never seen that statistic, while I see 75% quoted often... and it makes sense to me.

Statistics are both incredibly useful and nearly worthless at the same time.

Can you show me where you got the 50/50 stat? I'm actually interested in seeing what it shows.

On giant piles of money.

I sometimes think for most women conscience is tied directly to consequences. If there is no fear of consequences then there really is no feeling of guilt.

You should push your sister to at least inform the man that he isn't the real father. It won't affect the child support if he signed the birth certificate... so she can be honest without fear. She has the U.S. government and every feminist organization in the world behind her 100%.

Actually.... you're right.. .I was quoting an old stat before the 70s. Here is the current stats: http://www.divorce-lawyer-source.com/faq/emotional/who-initiates-divorce-men-or-women.html

A whopping 90 percent of divorces are initiated by women when both couples are college educated

http://www.livestrong.com/article/146100-why-do-women-initiate-divorce/ (actually these are more current)

Edited July 1, 2011 by P&R

July 2, 2011

I would never in a million years want to be a woman. Being a man is much harder , but I frankly enjoy the challenge and love the danger/risk taking associated with us. I would hate to have the whole world do everything for me.

However, I will say that there is no doubt that women have a massive advantage in dating. Any woman who isn't obese no matter what she looks like, what her personality is like, what her social status is, will have scores of guys in love with her and dying to date her.

Men will tolerate so much BS from women that the reverse would never do. If I was a woman I would probably be considered a 10 out of 10 and have people worshipping me. The other day some guy gave this obese female whose got a kid and is complete white trash with no class or manners at my job a compliment saying how beautiful she was, LOL. Yet I don't get any compliments as a man and I seldom see anyone except the "hottest" guys getting anything positive said about them.

If most women were men, they would frankly be invisible. Why? Because the personalitys, neuroticism, quirkiness, social status, and even physical looks that men of all kinds deem acceptable in a woman, would never be acceptable in the reverse.

July 2, 2011

The only major disadvantage of being a woman is that their advantages are on a borrowed time. As german philosopher arthur schopenhauer said, god gives women enormous beauty within a short period of time as a weapon of survival within which time they have to quickly ensnare a man with their temporary beauty and trap him into marriage thus ensuring him providing for her and he rfuture kids for the rest of her life.

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'Woe-is-me' men - would you really rather have been a woman?

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