Putting MM words to the test - what I learned

[Upside]

I believe this is my 2nd post, although I read this board almost daily over the last month of me going NC (28 days) with xMM. many of you have provided great insights. Today, woke up feeling low and wanted to summerizie my expericnce.

 

In short, June 1, I decided to go NC with MM. The last month was sucking the life out of me, of us. The indesecion, back and forth, uncertainity was taking it's toll on me.

 

STATS: 1.5 yr EA/PA

6 yr "friendship" 3 year EA

me - single OW late 20's - early 30's - professional

xMM- married 16yrs,(late 30's - early 40's) 3 kids, Evangical upbringing- (professinal)(same as BS)

 

We fourtantly had no D-day. I have not seen him in 28 days. No calls, 2 emails. We would usually go 5 - 7 days NC. this was the third attempt.

 

As I said, it got too much for me. His marriage was unraveling. I would give him space, he would come back, sit me down tell me he wanted to be with me, ask me logistical questions on how things would work, ext'c

 

April, he informed me his wife and him were going to go to marriage counseling - to learn how to communicate, not necessary to work on marriage. I was told "Whether we divorce or not, wife and I have to have a stable relationship for kids" I was then told that the counselor said if a third party was involved, it wouldn't work. Again, I stepped aside.

 

a week later, starting taking back to PA. No resolution. Final straw, as he is professing to me he loves me, he casually mentions he will be taking time off work ( his bday and wedding anniversary are in the same week) to go on another "family" vacation in the Bahammas. BIG WAKE UP CALL

 

The test:

 

At that point, with all the time vested, I decided that he can't make this desicion with me in the picture. Further, for the first time, I felt ashamed, weak, pathetic, devalued and foolish if I didn;t leave then.

 

I gave him an ultimatem. Said if he goes on that trip I am shutting the door for good. I would know it's a waste of time, and by not shutting the door, I couldn't move on, heal, and really give myself a shot at happiness. Orginally said end of the month. But I was becomming angry, resentful, hostle. It was clearly time to pull the plug I did. This ultimatem was not intended to "win him" at this point, we were either going to make it work, or I was going to be free. Win / Win.

 

He contacted me via text last week and relayed some news of a mutual aquaintance's death. I sent a text. When he was out of town he texted me, probably bc his "family" wasnt around. I sent a couple, and caught myself. Sent him an email, acknowleging my lack of judgement, and reconfirming that I am done, and moving on.

 

One hostle text later from him. It's really done. He knows I am done. So now this guy who Loved me so much, can just "let me go" after trying to weasel back.

 

If you want to really know where you stand with MM - give an ultimatem. he's in or he's out. Waiting for someone to make a decesion if they want to be with you is one of the most humiliating things I have ever put myself through.

 

you will either have him, or you will gain your life back. Give him the ultimatem before the BS does. before the emotinoal trauma of a D-Day. while he is "sorting out his marriage"

 

He choose to stay. Never came after me. Never gave me closure. Just asked me if I was "gone in mind, and spirit" then tried to reconnect with me a month later. Never responed to my email. Just a pissy text.

 

His words keep me up at nights. His actions, broke my heart - I loved him so very deeply. Ultimatley, his Actions are whats going to truly set me free-1.5 years, it's amazing how fast that goes by.

[MissBee]

One hostle text later from him. It's really done. He knows I am done. So now this guy who Loved me so much, can just "let me go" after trying to weasel back.

If you want to really know where you stand with MM - give an ultimatem. he's in or he's out. Waiting for someone to make a decesion if they want to be with you is one of the most humiliating things I have ever put myself through.

you will either have him, or you will gain your life back. Give him the ultimatem before the BS does. before the emotinoal trauma of a D-Day. while he is "sorting out his marriage"

 

He choose to stay. Never came after me. Never gave me closure. Just asked me if I was "gone in mind, and spirit" then tried to reconnect with me a month later. Never responed to my email. Just a pissy text.

 

His words keep me up at nights. His actions, broke my heart - I loved him so very deeply. Ultimatley, his Actions are whats going to truly set me free-1.5 years, it's amazing how fast that goes by .

I can definitely empathize with this Upside.

 

That is really what it comes down to...people can carry on and on about how complicated things are and so forth, but really the point comes down to making a CHOICE...it's either, OR. This person chooses you...or chooses their wife. Choosing "both" is just the same as not choosing you .

 

That is it...it's not a magical formula that requires months or years of waiting to find out if you are the choice. If for years someone hasn't figured out they love me enough to be with me....then what am I really "waiting" for. If I'm dating a single guy and after months there is NO direction of where we're going, or he's still dating others, or keeps saying he needs time to figure out what's going on, I would thank him for his time and move on (as I had to do recently). It would be foolish to wait for months and months and years and years. Waiting around for example in a relationship for someone to pop the question and years and years go by and you're still waiting...ermmm.........it is apparent that his lack of choice is a choice. Same goes for MP.

 

I do understand deciding to leave one's marriage is difficult and may take time...that's all good and well, but there is no need for you to sit around waiting and being tortured while "being with this person but not really'. It's better you make the decision for YOURSELF, not even giving them an ultimatum, but deciding on your own terms that they should figure their life out and if things are meant to be, they'll come back around. It's a win win...if it is NOT meant to be, well look at you, you've been living your life and retained your dignity and are well on the way to moving on anyway and if it IS meant to be...you retained your dignity, avoided some of the turmoil and can start things on a clean slate.

Edited June 28, 2011 by MissBee

[Upside]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply. Very encouraging words. I wanted to believe I was the exception to the rule. I was prepared to change my whole life for this man. I thought showing him my love, being "down" that these actions would show him this was real for me. I backed my words up with actions. I took a risk. I was scared. I trusted. I compromised myself.

 

He couldn't do the same. Rather, he was still deciding if he could do the same while taking the best of me all the while.

 

My only fear now, that I am certain I will not go back, that a D-Day after the fact will come up. Is this a common thing?

 

For an affair to be done, then BAM BS finds out? He is too selfish to ever come clean. no doubt. All she would have to do is look at the phone records. We never "hid" in public.

 

What are the odds?

[MissBee]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply. Very encouraging words. I wanted to believe I was the exception to the rule. I was prepared to change my whole life for this man. I thought showing him my love, being "down" that these actions would show him this was real for me. I backed my words up with actions. I took a risk. I was scared. I trusted. I compromised myself.

 

He couldn't do the same. Rather, he was still deciding if he could do the same while taking the best of me all the while.

 

My only fear now, that I am certain I will not go back, that a D-Day after the fact will come up. Is this a common thing?

 

For an affair to be done, then BAM BS finds out? He is too selfish to ever come clean. no doubt. All she would have to do is look at the phone records. We never "hid" in public.

 

What are the odds?

 

Trusting, showing love, backing words with actions and taking risks are all GREAT things....for someone who deserves it

 

That's the problem...many women, myself included, are willing to give their all and then some hoping that by doing so the other person will do the same, not taking the time to stop and really assess and see if this other person can be trusted, is backing his words with actions and all those great things as well. We believe we can convince people to love us and that our actions of doing all this will rub off on them and inspire them to do the same...baloney.

 

We rush off and get ready to move the world around for this person...when they are sitting back enjoying it or doing little meaningless things that we convince ourselves are somehow the same as moving the world.

 

You want to find someone who is on the same page as you are, has the same goals and values and idea of the relationship, is willing to put in the work, effort, back his words with action consistently, love you as you are without you having to bend and shift and make compromises and do right by you. It should be an equal partnership or co-piloting, not some strange imbalance of you having to "win" them or where one person seems to be at more of a loss or is making all types of concessions while the other is not.

Edited June 28, 2011 by MissBee

[Spark1111]

fBS here upside....and I would guestimate the odds are pretty good she may one day find out.

 

If she does, do you have a plan how you will handle it?

 

A lot of BSs simply lose their mind when they discover the depth of betrayal by a cheating spouse. Often, that anger gets projected onto the affair partner. It is a normal, irrational reaction.

 

It is the psyche's response to protect itself. It is just way too painful to believe someone you loved and trusted with your life could do this to you. So you blame the AP, until you are able to place the blame squarely where it belongs...on the shoulders of your WS.

 

Just some words of advice if this should happen. Stay calm, answer all her questions truthfully. Print those emails and texts and put them away for safe keeping (evidence) should she ever call or confront you.

 

If she does discover the affair, his actions towards her will be the same as towards you. He will dodge and weave and omit and lie. He will cast you as the villain or try to. Her head will spin.

 

The same conflict avoidance and cowardice he showed in the affair is what she lives with every day.

 

Many cheaters do not change unless forced to, often by discovery and consequences to those actions. But there knee-jerk reaction? To throw you under the bus, whether deservedly or not.

[Loni]

fBS here upside....and I would guestimate the odds are pretty good she may one day find out.

 

If she does, do you have a plan how you will handle it?

 

A lot of BSs simply lose their mind when they discover the depth of betrayal by a cheating spouse. Often, that anger gets projected onto the affair partner. It is a normal, irrational reaction.

 

It is the psyche's response to protect itself. It is just way too painful to believe someone you loved and trusted with your life could do this to you. So you blame the AP, until you are able to place the blame squarely where it belongs...on the shoulders of your WS.

 

Just some words of advice if this should happen. Stay calm, answer all her questions truthfully. Print those emails and texts and put them away for safe keeping (evidence) should she ever call or confront you.

 

If she does discover the affair, his actions towards her will be the same as towards you. He will dodge and weave and omit and lie. He will cast you as the villain or try to. Her head will spin.

 

The same conflict avoidance and cowardice he showed in the affair is what she lives with every day.

 

Many cheaters do not change unless forced to, often by discovery and consequences to those actions. But there knee-jerk reaction? To throw you under the bus, whether deservedly or not.

 

OMG, if I had answered questions back then his XW would have been a helluva lot more mad. I really did not see the point of answering her questions. I am not sure exactly how my husband revealed to her after dday. Obviously not enough to make her say GTFO because she begged him to stay. I don't think any good can come from detailing the minutae of an affair as a 3rd party to a BS.

[Tenacity]

Thank you for taking the time to post this. Congratulations on making and sticking with such a hard decision... it helps so much to those of us who are trying to do the same and having so many bad days.

 

You are obviously a very strong woman.

[Spark1111]

OMG, if I had answered questions back then his XW would have been a helluva lot more mad. I really did not see the point of answering her questions. I am not sure exactly how my husband revealed to her after dday. Obviously not enough to make her say GTFO because she begged him to stay. I don't think any good can come from detailing the minutae of an affair as a 3rd party to a BS.

 

No, Loni, I disagree.

 

Our craziness does not stem from the fact that he developed feelings for another, although that hurts like hell.

 

It's the lies and deception, and then the continued deception when our intuition kicks in and we know we are being lied to by not one, but two parties. Details ommitted. It is the most controlling and unkind thing a person can do to another....to not tell the truth.

 

It is not about protecting the BS from the details. It is about protecting your own azzes from the consequences.

 

Truth does not make a person crazy. Continued gaslighting does. And controlling the flow of truthful information is exactly that....continued control over a person who has been lied to and deceived for way too long.

 

Truth is respectful. And frankly, I find it amazing that even today, you do not KNOW what he told his xW? About you, him, the relationship? And you still wonder why she went crazy?

 

He probably minimized you and the relationship. He probably tried to let her down gently to spare her feelings. How sweet. How condescending. How crazy making.

[Tenacity]

No, Loni, I disagree.

 

Our craziness does not stem from the fact that he developed feelings for another, although that hurts like hell.

 

It's the lies and deception, and then the continued deception when our intuition kicks in and we know we are being lied to by not one, but two parties. Details ommitted. It is the most controlling and unkind thing a person can do to another....to not tell the truth.

 

It is not about protecting the BS from the details. It is about protecting your own azzes from the consequences.

 

Truth does not make a person crazy. Continued gaslighting does. And controlling the flow of truthful information is exactly that....continued control over a person who has been lied to and deceived for way too long.

 

Truth is respectful. And frankly, I find it amazing that even today, you do not KNOW what he told his xW? About you, him, the relationship? And you still wonder why she went crazy?

 

He probably minimized you and the relationship. He probably tried to let her down gently to spare her feelings. How sweet. How condescending. How crazy making.

 

In my case, I KNOW that he minimized me and the relationship and convinced her that nothing actually happened.

 

I know too, from talking to her, that she does not believe him.

 

Whatever he told her, and whatever she chooses to believe or not believe, whatever she chooses to do with him... that is their business. If she wants to remain in the marriage and live with her head in the sand, that is her right. I am not going to force it on her.

 

I talked to his W on the phone when she asked me to. It was not a nice conversation, but I answered every question she asked me, honestly, and would have done so had she asked anything about physical relations. But she literally told me that she didn't want to know the rest.... even if it happened. Was I supposed to offer the details in that situation? No way.

[Loni]

No, Loni, I disagree.

 

Our craziness does not stem from the fact that he developed feelings for another, although that hurts like hell.

 

It's the lies and deception, and then the continued deception when our intuition kicks in and we know we are being lied to by not one, but two parties. Details ommitted. It is the most controlling and unkind thing a person can do to another....to not tell the truth.

 

It is not about protecting the BS from the details. It is about protecting your own azzes from the consequences.

 

Truth does not make a person crazy. Continued gaslighting does. And controlling the flow of truthful information is exactly that....continued control over a person who has been lied to and deceived for way too long.

 

Truth is respectful. And frankly, I find it amazing that even today, you do not KNOW what he told his xW? About you, him, the relationship? And you still wonder why she went crazy?

 

He probably minimized you and the relationship. He probably tried to let her down gently to spare her feelings. How sweet. How condescending. How crazy making.

 

He may have minimized the details but not the fact that he wanted to be with me because we married very shortly after his divorce.

 

I mean really do you really want to know that your husband's mistress picked out your birthday gift meant to be from your children? Do you really want to know how long the affair was, how many times there was sex (that question was confusing as if I was keeping a 4 year journal of when and where) what kind of sex, if he bought her gifts, took her on vacation, wrote her love notes, went to baptisms and funerals with her or what he said about you? Do you really want to hear that your husband went to doctor visits and in some cases picked up his mistress's children from school and minded them. Do you really want to hear that prior to leaving he got a new place in his mistress's name and started buying furniture little by little for it. Do you really want to hear that the used washing machine and dryer he got for you came from his OW because he had just bought her new? And that is just some of the random things I remember from back then.

 

Not trying to be cruel here but I should have told her those things? Yeah, I can see where that would have calmed her right the hell down. Just didn't seem that would be a productive conversation for me to have with her.

 

It was not about covering my butt as I was single and there were nothing (besides perhaps hit me or pull a Betty) that she could do to me.

[waytogo]

I believe this is my 2nd post, although I read this board almost daily over the last month of me going NC (28 days) with xMM. many of you have provided great insights. Today, woke up feeling low and wanted to summerizie my expericnce.

 

In short, June 1, I decided to go NC with MM. The last month was sucking the life out of me, of us. The indesecion, back and forth, uncertainity was taking it's toll on me.

 

STATS: 1.5 yr EA/PA

6 yr "friendship" 3 year EA

me - single OW late 20's - early 30's - professional

xMM- married 16yrs,(late 30's - early 40's) 3 kids, Evangical upbringing- (professinal)(same as BS)

 

We fourtantly had no D-day. I have not seen him in 28 days. No calls, 2 emails. We would usually go 5 - 7 days NC. this was the third attempt.

 

As I said, it got too much for me. His marriage was unraveling. I would give him space, he would come back, sit me down tell me he wanted to be with me, ask me logistical questions on how things would work, ext'c

 

April, he informed me his wife and him were going to go to marriage counseling - to learn how to communicate, not necessary to work on marriage. I was told "Whether we divorce or not, wife and I have to have a stable relationship for kids" I was then told that the counselor said if a third party was involved, it wouldn't work. Again, I stepped aside.

 

a week later, starting taking back to PA. No resolution. Final straw, as he is professing to me he loves me, he casually mentions he will be taking time off work ( his bday and wedding anniversary are in the same week) to go on another "family" vacation in the Bahammas. BIG WAKE UP CALL

 

The test:

 

At that point, with all the time vested, I decided that he can't make this desicion with me in the picture. Further, for the first time, I felt ashamed, weak, pathetic, devalued and foolish if I didn;t leave then.

 

I gave him an ultimatem. Said if he goes on that trip I am shutting the door for good. I would know it's a waste of time, and by not shutting the door, I couldn't move on, heal, and really give myself a shot at happiness. Orginally said end of the month. But I was becomming angry, resentful, hostle. It was clearly time to pull the plug I did. This ultimatem was not intended to "win him" at this point, we were either going to make it work, or I was going to be free. Win / Win.

 

He contacted me via text last week and relayed some news of a mutual aquaintance's death. I sent a text. When he was out of town he texted me, probably bc his "family" wasnt around. I sent a couple, and caught myself. Sent him an email, acknowleging my lack of judgement, and reconfirming that I am done, and moving on.

 

One hostle text later from him. It's really done. He knows I am done. So now this guy who Loved me so much, can just "let me go" after trying to weasel back.

 

If you want to really know where you stand with MM - give an ultimatem. he's in or he's out. Waiting for someone to make a decesion if they want to be with you is one of the most humiliating things I have ever put myself through.

 

you will either have him, or you will gain your life back. Give him the ultimatem before the BS does. before the emotinoal trauma of a D-Day. while he is "sorting out his marriage"

 

He choose to stay. Never came after me. Never gave me closure. Just asked me if I was "gone in mind, and spirit" then tried to reconnect with me a month later. Never responed to my email. Just a pissy text.

 

His words keep me up at nights. His actions, broke my heart - I loved him so very deeply. Ultimatley, his Actions are whats going to truly set me free-1.5 years, it's amazing how fast that goes by.

 

Hi Upside. It sounds like you are on track to look after yourself. It does probably take everyone more than 1 thought of, this may not be a great situation for me, to going to the next step to end it. It's also not uncommmon to have to end more than once, been there, burned the shirt.

 

I'm curious as to what logistics he was asking you about. His exit from his M while seeing to his 3 childrens' best interest weren't for you to figure out for him. I have a feeling your answers will further reveal selfishness on his part that you may not have even thought of yet. What was going to be for you to take care of for him is what comes to mind. Was he considering his own place, or did he have in mind to come straight to your home. The latter would help him cut costs while paying child support for 3 kids. Also possibly wife support depending on which one of them earns what. If he was considering living off you, fully or parially straight from home to his car to your house, that would be a pretty bad sign. You may well have dodged quite the bullet.

[Upside]

Is it possible to thread jack my own thread? New to this. If someone wants to start this topic, if that's the appropriate thing to do, by all means. In a way, I believe this is still on topic.

 

Spark - I appreciate your insight. For the majority of evidence - texts, photos, videos, that got trashed, deleted, and used as a pooper scooper for my dog....it was a hard day. However, I do have some letters,maybe an email or two, and can provide details on trips, times, dates, ext. I honestly feel ashamed and remorseful as a woman. I couldn't see past my own needs to care that the thing that would make me the most happy, would be the one thing that would destroy another person. I have learned from this experience enough to NEVER go down this path again, but to also not judge others in their romantic pursuits. With that being said, and I truly mean that, I would not on my own tell his wife. I was involved in their marriage long enough.

 

Now, if a post affair D-Day were to occur....If she were to remain rational, I would say to her that I will be happy to answer her questions, and adknowledge the 3 yr EA and 1.5 yr PA. However, after that point, should she wish to know any other information I would only do it with xMM on the line as well - as to make sure i'm not labeled as a phoney, stalker, hooker, ext'c. xMM does not know what info I have or do not have. If I am going to get thrown under the bus, I will at least be wearing my protective gear.

 

I also agree with Loni - I don't think anything constructive can come out of knowing the XXX details.

 

But who really knows until faced with the situation.....I do know she has anger issues....a very large close "extreme Christian" family, whom she was always the Princess - and 3 sisters that also reside in our town. It's on my mind. The pain I am going through is karma in it's self. But, now that I can focus on things other than our next encounter - I am slowly seeing the potential fallout.

[Spark1111]

He may have minimized the details but not the fact that he wanted to be with me because we married very shortly after his divorce.

 

I mean really do you really want to know that your husband's mistress picked out your birthday gift meant to be from your children? Do you really want to know how long the affair was, how many times there was sex (that question was confusing as if I was keeping a 4 year journal of when and where) what kind of sex, if he bought her gifts, took her on vacation, wrote her love notes, went to baptisms and funerals with her or what he said about you? Do you really want to hear that your husband went to doctor visits and in some cases picked up his mistress's children from school and minded them. Do you really want to hear that prior to leaving he got a new place in his mistress's name and started buying furniture little by little for it. Do you really want to hear that the used washing machine and dryer he got for you came from his OW because he had just bought her new? And that is just some of the random things I remember from back then.

 

Not trying to be cruel here but I should have told her those things? Yeah, I can see where that would have calmed her right the hell down. Just didn't seem that would be a productive conversation for me to have with her.

 

It was not about covering my butt as I was single and there were nothing (besides perhaps hit me or pull a Betty) that she could do to me.

 

Loni. I knew all that already. I went into hyperdrive when I discovered the existence of the OW. It was almost a relief to have a reason for his cruelty and distance and criticisms.

 

I saw the bank statements, the cell phone records. I just WANTED SOMEONE, ANYONE, to give me finally the dignity of the truth of it all.

 

No one did for a LONG time. After repeated attempts. I lost respect for both of them.

 

Own your actions if they are authentic. Don't lie, don't hide, like errant, rebellious children.

 

Who did you think you were protecting? If someone, anyone, came forward and told the truth, I could have respected that.

 

I already knew it all. Or most of it.

[Upside]

Way2Go -

 

Both xMM and I are considered financially successful - money was one of the big issues, that was never, or would be an issue in that respect. He would always take care of his children and his wife - as he should. Additionally, child support is capped - the most he would pay per year legally would be $80 - $100K - which would not majorly impact his lifestyle. Both him and I have similar saving / spending habits - not flashly.

 

we spent 10 days apart. he met me, and went over the logistics on how this would work.

 

His concern, me being a single OW how the transition would work. He thought 6 months to a year would be an approporiate time to be around children.

 

He works sometime 80 hr weeks, so time with his children is important. Questions related to balance. there were a lot of questions, but I can honestly say they were not all related to him, his needs. They were thought out questions one would have when planning to merge a life. Questions a responsibile adult would have. Questions, that would make an OW who was in NC back to the OW.....

 

Now if only when I was answering his questions, if I was sensible at the time to ask a question...."what would you say if your wife found out"...Damn hindsight:rolleyes:

[waytogo]

Loni. I knew all that already. I went into hyperdrive when I discovered the existence of the OW. It was almost a relief to have a reason for his cruelty and distance and criticisms.

 

I saw the bank statements, the cell phone records. I just WANTED SOMEONE, ANYONE, to give me finally the dignity of the truth of it all.

 

No one did for a LONG time. After repeated attempts. I lost respect for both of them.

 

Own your actions if they are authentic. Don't lie, don't hide, like errant, rebellious children.

 

Who did you think you were protecting? If someone, anyone, came forward and told the truth, I could have respected that.

 

I already knew it all. Or most of it.

 

We are terribly T/J'ing, Up I do hope you will forgive. I can safely say I'd rather know exactly what the circumstances were so relevant to my life, than to make it up in my head. My immagination just may be worse than reality. Either way, I'd wish to cope with facts instead of wondering.

 

If xMM's W ever came to me with questions even after these years, my heart would only allow me to tell her the truth of what I could remember. I couldn't possibly give her dates at this point. I would answer any question honestly.

 

Upside, back to you. This is your thread.

[Tenacity]

Loni. I knew all that already. I went into hyperdrive when I discovered the existence of the OW. It was almost a relief to have a reason for his cruelty and distance and criticisms.

 

I saw the bank statements, the cell phone records. I just WANTED SOMEONE, ANYONE, to give me finally the dignity of the truth of it all.

 

No one did for a LONG time. After repeated attempts. I lost respect for both of them.

 

Own your actions if they are authentic. Don't lie, don't hide, like errant, rebellious children.

 

Who did you think you were protecting? If someone, anyone, came forward and told the truth, I could have respected that.

 

I already knew it all. Or most of it.

 

I agree spark. If you wanted to know, and made it clear you did, then you should have received complete disclosure of what happened. If not from your H, then the OW.

[Loni]

Loni. I knew all that already. I went into hyperdrive when I discovered the existence of the OW. It was almost a relief to have a reason for his cruelty and distance and criticisms.

 

I saw the bank statements, the cell phone records. I just WANTED SOMEONE, ANYONE, to give me finally the dignity of the truth of it all.

 

No one did for a LONG time. After repeated attempts. I lost respect for both of them.

 

Own your actions if they are authentic. Don't lie, don't hide, like errant, rebellious children.

 

Who did you think you were protecting? If someone, anyone, came forward and told the truth, I could have respected that.

 

I already knew it all. Or most of it.

 

That's just it. I did not hide and their was no rebellion. I put my relationship out there for all to see. I did not feel I was protecting anyone nor did I feel I owed her an explanation. All I knew was I had a stalker woman gone mad on me. Again, there was nothing positive in a having a conversation like that for me.

 

I'm not about to disclose my sex life, pillow talk and intimacies to anyone so why would I disclose them to a strange woman just because she is married to the MM I am in a relationship with. I understand that not knowing can be devastating but what you don't realize is that there was no crime and the only person you are entitled to interrogate is your husband.

 

And yes, I do think it was kinder for her not to know some of the stuff I knew about her.

[Upside]

Prior to affair, when just in the EA he always said, he felt invisible - that his wife paid no attention to him. Again, we did not have secret phones, only go out in the evenings. His close friend, and some family knew me. They didn't like her, which at the time made me feel like my actions were justified:sick:

 

Anyhow, we went on trips - I would buy my own plane ticket. he would sometimes stay the night. we saw eachother for everyday - unless he had off a weekend - family time---as much as we saw each other, i woke up MANY weekends alone. His job, without further elaborating for anonymity reasons was not a 9- 5 type of job. But he would get off work, and spend 3 and 4 hours everytime with me, unless there was something going on. But 90% of the time - everyday - this was his M.O. Their common bond is children, but outside of that - it's pretty seperate.

 

When we really got deep into this - say 6 months, then a year - nothing. He was distant, they were having horrible problems - the family thought he was going though a mid life crisis. Women's intuition never kicked in?

 

There last round of marriage counseling - may - to try and "work on their relationship" whether they divorce or not:sick: xMM told me - first session, counselor called him out - IN FRONT of wife asked how long this affair has been going on!! xMM said his wife just looked at him. He of course denied it, the counselor reminded him she has been doing this for decades.....

Why wouldn't her friends, family, someone bring up the possibility of just maybe - arent affairs apart of midlife crisis? If xMM and his wife are still having trouble ( i have NO idea ) ( i think not, or he would be here? ) then wouldn't this come out?

[waytogo]

Prior to affair, when just in the EA he always said, he felt invisible - that his wife paid no attention to him. Again, we did not have secret phones, only go out in the evenings. His close friend, and some family knew me. They didn't like her, which at the time made me feel like my actions were justified:sick:

 

Anyhow, we went on trips - I would buy my own plane ticket. he would sometimes stay the night. we saw eachother for everyday - unless he had off a weekend - family time---as much as we saw each other, i woke up MANY weekends alone. His job, without further elaborating for anonymity reasons was not a 9- 5 type of job. But he would get off work, and spend 3 and 4 hours everytime with me, unless there was something going on. But 90% of the time - everyday - this was his M.O. Their common bond is children, but outside of that - it's pretty seperate.

 

When we really got deep into this - say 6 months, then a year - nothing. He was distant, they were having horrible problems - the family thought he was going though a mid life crisis. Women's intuition never kicked in?

 

There last round of marriage counseling - may - to try and "work on their relationship" whether they divorce or not:sick: xMM told me - first session, counselor called him out - IN FRONT of wife asked how long this affair has been going on!! xMM said his wife just looked at him. He of course denied it, the counselor reminded him she has been doing this for decades.....

 

Why wouldn't her friends, family, someone bring up the possibility of just maybe - arent affairs apart of midlife crisis? If xMM and his wife are still having trouble ( i have NO idea ) ( i think not, or he would be here? ) then wouldn't this come out?

 

I'm not sure if you are replying to me. Little hint that helped me communicate here, the quote button on the bottom right

 

Is it comfortable for you to share what logistics you would be a part of, other than moral support? People with children and shared assets do divorce. The logistics of that is between them and their lawyers. I'm wondering what it was he was asking you about regarding these logistics.

[Upside]

I'm not sure if you are replying to me. Little hint that helped me communicate here, the quote button on the bottom right

 

Is it comfortable for you to share what logistics you would be a part of, other than moral support? People with children and shared assets do divorce. The logistics of that is between them and their lawyers. I'm wondering what it was he was asking you about regarding these logistics.

 

 

i found the quote button....thank you. Really, any insight from anyone is welcomed. I'm also used to T/J and sometimes these posts take on life's of their own.

 

As for the logistics - everything from our personal time spent together, interactions with my family, where we would live, when we would move in, joint accounts, vacation planning, counseling together - to start fresh, balancing life with him and his children, with just him. Hope that helps.

[Spark1111]

Is it possible to thread jack my own thread? New to this. If someone wants to start this topic, if that's the appropriate thing to do, by all means. In a way, I believe this is still on topic.

 

Spark - I appreciate your insight. For the majority of evidence - texts, photos, videos, that got trashed, deleted, and used as a pooper scooper for my dog....it was a hard day. However, I do have some letters,maybe an email or two, and can provide details on trips, times, dates, ext. I honestly feel ashamed and remorseful as a woman. I couldn't see past my own needs to care that the thing that would make me the most happy, would be the one thing that would destroy another person. I have learned from this experience enough to NEVER go down this path again, but to also not judge others in their romantic pursuits. With that being said, and I truly mean that, I would not on my own tell his wife. I was involved in their marriage long enough.

 

Now, if a post affair D-Day were to occur....If she were to remain rational, I would say to her that I will be happy to answer her questions, and adknowledge the 3 yr EA and 1.5 yr PA. However, after that point, should she wish to know any other information I would only do it with xMM on the line as well - as to make sure i'm not labeled as a phoney, stalker, hooker, ext'c. xMM does not know what info I have or do not have. If I am going to get thrown under the bus, I will at least be wearing my protective gear.

 

I also agree with Loni - I don't think anything constructive can come out of knowing the XXX details.

 

But who really knows until faced with the situation.....I do know she has anger issues....a very large close "extreme Christian" family, whom she was always the Princess - and 3 sisters that also reside in our town. It's on my mind. The pain I am going through is karma in it's self. But, now that I can focus on things other than our next encounter - I am slowly seeing the potential fallout.

 

Upside, if you have anything proving your post, a conversation where you said enough is enough and HE continues to contact you.....I do not think it would be a bad idea to send to email and save.

 

That's all I am saying.... So you cannot be thrown under a bus, unfairly, with misplaced retribution and revenge aimed your way.

[Spark1111]

That's just it. I did not hide and their was no rebellion. I put my relationship out there for all to see. I did not feel I was protecting anyone nor did I feel I owed her an explanation. All I knew was I had a stalker woman gone mad on me. Again, there was nothing positive in a having a conversation like that for me.

 

I'm not about to disclose my sex life, pillow talk and intimacies to anyone so why would I disclose them to a strange woman just because she is married to the MM I am in a relationship with. I understand that not knowing can be devastating but what you don't realize is that there was no crime and the only person you are entitled to interrogate is your husband.

 

And yes, I do think it was kinder for her not to know some of the stuff I knew about her.

 

I dunno. Speak to Breezy Trousers about that. She felt exactly the same way as you did.

 

Oh no. Infidelity happened to a sick and dear friend of her's....and she has left LS to ponder her thoughts about her former feelings for the BS in her sitch.

 

And I am here to tell you, the LAST person who will tell his wife or counselor the truth in the post affair or DDAy sitch....is the cheating MM.

[Spark1111]

Trut me, I already knew the sex life. I saw the bank statements, remember?

 

I also have the STD results my doctor forced me to have. My accountant saw every last hotel room tryst.

 

You still think she doesn't know or intuit your relationship? Don't tell her if that is what is most comfortable to you.

[waytogo]

i found the quote button....thank you. Really, any insight from anyone is welcomed. I'm also used to T/J and sometimes these posts take on life's of their own.

 

As for the logistics - everything from our personal time spent together, interactions with my family, where we would live, when we would move in, joint accounts, vacation planning, counseling together - to start fresh, balancing life with him and his children, with just him. Hope that helps.

 

That does sound better. As, he was planning how to introduce kids to you during the transition I take it? In previous reading, it sounded like it was up to you to plan his exit and that was concerning. Did his whole family go for his b'day/anniversery trip, or just he and his W? Also, sorry to be the cynic but I've read too much and lived t.... Other than the time he spends with you, do you have more evidence of just how separate their lives are. Do you have any insight of how they jointly handle finances, parenting, etc?

[Loni]

Trut me, I already knew the sex life. I saw the bank statements, remember?

 

I also have the STD results my doctor forced me to have. My accountant saw every last hotel room tryst.

 

You still think she doesn't know or intuit your relationship? Don't tell her if that is what is most comfortable to you.

 

I am married to him now. She knows we had a very long term affair. Really don't see what else I could tell her that's going to make her feel more at peace.