Finally realize these MM/MW are total cowards

[Confused4Now]

I think most of them are straight up Passive Aggressive who never intended on doing anything but overtly and covertly hurting women in an attempt to control some part of their own life.

 

I got wise to the fact that he was simply

using me to Passive Aggressively,covertly abuse his wife,

called him on it and he admitted...."I'm not wired right".

 

LOL...NO SH*T!

I will have to totally agree with this one too...my xMW even came out in the very end when I had enough and she said...she knows she's not healthy and that she needs to work on it. She even said "Don't you want me healthy for us?" I believe she was working on making her M better.

[Heart On]

Add Passive Aggressiveness to Commitment Phobia and you pretty much have a Narcissistic Person with some serious problems with relationships.

I witnessed so much pathology on my xMM's part,and I became Betrayal Bonded to him,(Love addicted/Codependant) that it all destroyed any chance at having a healthy relationship.

 

He was never going to leave his wife.he simply used me to fill the void and make himself feel less controlled by his commitment to his wife.

 

I,got off the fence without issue,and left my xH. Unfortunately I assumed he was as sincere as I was and made choices based on his lies,left my marriage and wound up divorced whilst he went on to buy a house and have a baby with his wife and she had no clue he was having sex with me and telling me he loved me.

 

Seems to me,he couldn't have meant he loved either of us considering he was devoid of empathy.I came to the unprofessional conclusion that he was Narcissistic and if he hadn't charmed me into his lies,it would have been some other unsuspecting woman in his "care".

 

I was simply vulnerable and trusting enough to hook and keep on a string.

 

 

 

http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/characteristics.html

 

http://www.simplysolo.com/relationships/how_to_spot_a_commitment_phobic.html

Edited July 2, 2011 by Heart On

[Geminigrl]

I understand where you're at. I think there are different stages & you are in anger & that's normal & fine. Sometimes yes I am still angry at xMM. But I've had to forgive him to be able to forgive myself & move on.

 

As far as 'forgiving' xMM goes. It is more about forgiving myself. It's more about seeing how no matter how much of a 'monster' xMM turned out to be, I willingly offered myself up to him. I had issues that made me stay with him just as he had issues that made him do what he did. I could always relate to my xMM so strongly. He was a man with issues, & I was a woman with issues. We were both pretty d*mn screwed up. I am really working on my issues & in doing so I see that he is who he is . . . a man who is selfish because he is unhappy with himself, insecure, needy. And I had similar issues. I do hope my xMM is working on himself & his issues but really I try not to focus on him. If I get mad at him, or anger & hatred boils up in me, I try to reflect back on myself, & remind myself he didn't do anything to me that I didn't let him do. And I don't mean that I start to hate myself [although at one time I did] . . . I mean that I realize I was who I was at that time, & I'm working to become a happier person, & I must give myself grace & forgiveness, & it only makes sense to extend that same feeling back to xMM. It's the only way for me to make sense of it all, to process it & move on & be happier.

 

But I think what struck me in your posts was the anger & how you kept saying you feel sorry for the wife & would never want to be her etc. Which is strange for me to read because in your case the wife didn't even find out [if I'm reading/remembering your posts correctly] . . . so why the vitriol towards wives who stay after D-Day when that didn't even happen to the BS in your situation? To me the wife issue was the key to my way out . . . not my way out of the affair because I was done with it by the time I processed it, but my way out of hatred [self-hatred & hatred & anger at xMM & feeling stuck in the past & what we had done instead of being able to move on to the future].

 

So as far as feeling sorry for the wife or wives in general goes [i know this post is long but I feel it was really important for me & so I hope maybe it can help you, with the anger & hurt . . . if not, sorry for getting so wordy], well, one of my lightbulb moments was thinking hmmmm, I felt sorry for myself when I was involved with xMM . . . I look back & feel sorry that I let myself hurt like that, I let xMM hurt me, I hurt myself. I was a mess & didn't know what to do & getting out of it was definitely the right thing for me. But who am I to say what is best for his wife? How can I feel sorry for her or look down on her for staying with him [& believe me, at one time I definitely did], when I feel sorry for my own self for putting myself in that situation . . . & she did not put herself in that situation. She was dealing with hurt caused to her by xMM, with my help . . . she was/is not dealing with hurt she brought upon herself [like I'm dealing with . . . & xMM is dealing with if he is dealing with it.]

 

To me trying to put myself in his wife's shoes was a very essential part of my healing. Maybe it's because I knew her personally before we started the affair. Maybe it's because I've realized I was acting out some childhood 'mom/wife' issues in the affair & I feel I sub-consciously or even sometimes consciously targeted her. I posted a thread awhile back about how I realized I judged women whose identities revolved around their husbands/kids [or seemed to, to me], based on my own past [mom issues/ dad issues] & based on fear of being hurt. I think that was the single best thing I learned from the experience . . . not even why I shouldn't date a married man, but why I was dating a married man, what my own personal issues were, & how to deal with them, & for me they involved his wife or wives in general.

 

Even if you don't have this personal issue like I did, I still feel it could be helpful for you, because of the anger that drips from your posts when you talk about wives who stay with their cheating husbands, to try to put yourself in the shoes of a woman who stays & see why she might want to stay with him. When I did this it all made a lot more sense & felt very freeing to me for some reason. Here are some things I thought about. My xMM was very convincing- to both me & his BS- he could play us both like a fiddle. I began to realize even during the affair that he was crawling back to her & promising her the world like he was to me- he's a changed man, he loves & values her, he'll do anything to keep his family. [in my case she called me & told me some things he was doing to act like the perfect husband & father . . . & I recently found out through a mutual friend that while our affair was going on he renewed his vows with her & bought her a $10,000 ring. Honestly it didn't surprise me because I had come to accept that he was doing everything he could to get her to stay with him] . . . if she is a fool for buying into all of that, then I am even more of a fool for ever staying in the affair with him -- I didn't get 'actions' like vows [which I consider to be action in addition to words], I didn't get a 'token' like a ring, let alone one that cost that much! I got his attention, his sweet words which meant nothing in the end, his empty promises . . . he stayed put after D-Day & D-Day & D-Day & I stayed with him for way too long . . . so how could I possibly judge her for staying with him?!

 

She's his wife & as someone who has been married [this part was also a new revelation to me, having never been married, & it gave me a new understanding of what marriage is compared to what I thought it 'should be' or was], I'm sure you understand that that involves a shared history & family & choices about whether to break up the children's home [& in my case xMM's BS was one of those women whose wohle life does seem to be based on her husband & family, so in a way she would be losing her whole identity should they divorce . . . I also understand why she would not just want to kick out her husband of all those years so that a newcomer could have what they worked to build . . . I get that]. . . she had every incentive to want to stay with him & just wanted him to stop hurting her. If I feel sorry for her because of that, then I have to feel extra sorry for myself for being someone who could help cause that level of hurt & destruction to her . . . **I** was part of the reason she was having to decide whether to stay with him or not! That was a huge revelation for me . . . to see my part in things & examine why I was judging her for staying with him, why I couldn't understand it, why I felt sorry for her.

 

Also, my xMM's BS truly loved him. It was obvious, when I knew them before the affair, when I was in the affair, now that I'm out of the affair . . . she was & is madly in love with her husband. She loved him despite his many many flaws, she loved him even when he hurt her, she loved the life they had together, she loved him as her husband & the father of her children. I could pick apart her motives for it or say she should not etc. but I am left with this huge thought: what do you do with such a big love? Does it wear off or fall away because you find out this person you love so much betrayed you? I really wish for everyone's sake that it was this simple but as we all know, it's not. In your case you weren't in love with your husband & I don't know if you ever were with him or anyone & I honestly can't say I have known a love like I've realized my xMM's wife loves him -- wholly, completely, madly in love -- & I imagine it never, ever goes away. Yes you can leave the person & honestly I believe my xMM's wife would have left him eventually . . . she just kept wanting to believe he was truly done, she was willing to forgive him as long as it was done but at a certain point she did have a breaking point but that doesn't mean the love would disappear. She hurt so badly because she loved him so much. She was still there fighting for the marriage despite all her hurt because she loved him. When I realized that I was deeply humbled & honestly I was jealous of his wife. Not because she 'had' him -- by that time I no longer wanted him, I realized I am much better off without him, I was quite unsure why or how she could love him like that & want to be with him -- it had nothing to do with him [except that I honestly don't believe he deserved her love, but, he had it] & everything to do with the fact that I have never loved anyone like that. I think I would take the hurt if I could have that love. I had been so afraid of being hurt that I couldn't open myself up to love like that, & she had, & had been hurt, but I wanted what she had-- love.

 

I don't know if my post is making sense. It means something really deeply to me but maybe I'm not getting the words out right. I don't feel sorry for my xMM's wife. I used to, & I used to not understand her, & I used to pretty much dislike her all around, but through working all of that out I feel I've learned something priceless & I would like to be able to love like that one day without all the hurt, but, hurt is a part of love, always a risk. I think forgiveness is also a part of love. I hope he isn't hurting her anymore - I have a feeling he probably is, but, I hope not - & I'm glad I'm no longer participating in hurting her, & I don't feel sorry for her or wives like her at all. I actually admire them, something I never ever thought I would do. To say 'I would never stay with a man who cheated on me' to me sounds so simplistic - if you loved him with everything you had, & you believed in him & your future together & he was telling you that he was sorry & you were the only woman he ever loved etc. etc. etc. - you just might, & I wouldn't feel sorry for you. I would feel sorry for the guy who doesn't value a love like that [xMM] & for women who have never known a love like that, but not for the woman who does.

 

My intention in writing this was to help. I don't mean to come across as preachy or judgmental or like some champion for betrayed wives, which would be ironic since I have never been one & have actually helped betray one! I do understand where you're at & I'm just trying to explain where I'm at. :-) I think you have learned a lot & I'm glad you're happier & wiser! Part of your posts just really reminded me of me . . . I can relate, & I think the only good thing that comes out of this stuff is to keep learning & growing so this is my food for thought on the part of your posts that struck me as having more room to learn & grow in. I wish you all the best. :-)

 

I don't have time to write a long response right now. But, I hear what you are saying. I was more angry (and angry really isn't the right word) about my friend's situation with her MM and his W taking him back, while he was going to MC with her and still trying to get my friend to stay with him in an affair. This is not his first affair (but his 3rd or 4th) and honestly I do find it very sad she keeps taking this man back. It makes me seriously wonder about her sense of self worth. My friend has her own issues and she has been in this affair for like 6 years and honestly I find myself feeling just as sorry for her as I do for the BS. They both have major self esteem issues I think and this guy is just a huge a**hole! Honestly, he makes my xMM look like a saint.

 

As for my exMM's wife. If I am really honest, I don't have any strong feelings about her one way or another. I think neither of them is particularly happy in their marriage. I think it is sad. I think she will never know about our affair and I don't want her to. I have no interest in hurting her in that way. And, today I am not even angry with xMM anymore. I'm just going through the stages of grieving this relationship and it really hurt me that he tried to come back into my life after I had gotten a month under my belt. Like I said, it was like starting the grief process over again. My emotions change from day to day and I realize I probably shouldn't post about my feelings at all right now....I am so all over the place. Thanks for taking the time to explain your feelings to me though 26.

[FightClub]

Confused4Now,

 

Can you elaborate on your post? When you mentioned your exMW mentioning about 'being healthy for you,' and working on her marriage, I was confused myself.

 

-FC

[Confused4Now]

Confused4Now,

 

Can you elaborate on your post? When you mentioned your exMW mentioning about 'being healthy for you,' and working on her marriage, I was confused myself.

 

-FC

I guess this goes back from all my earlier posts. She was in a abusive marriage(verbal and emotional). What I saw in her is that she had developed those behaviors with me. She knew she was good at lying and manipulating cause it was a behavior she had learned from her H. So when it was clear to her that she was not ready to leave...she started with all the words of lying and keeping me in a place where she wanted me.

So when I said she was working on getting healthy she knew what she was doing.

 

So what I was seeing was her working on herself to make herself better for anyone in the future. What I didn't account for was she could be doing the work to make her marriage better which looks like is what happened.

 

Or she was just stalling for more time...which I wasn't going to wait anymore. 5 years was long enough.

[26pointblue]

I don't have time to write a long response right now. But, I hear what you are saying. I was more angry (and angry really isn't the right word) about my friend's situation with her MM and his W taking him back, while he was going to MC with her and still trying to get my friend to stay with him in an affair. This is not his first affair (but his 3rd or 4th) and honestly I do find it very sad she keeps taking this man back. It makes me seriously wonder about her sense of self worth. My friend has her own issues and she has been in this affair for like 6 years and honestly I find myself feeling just as sorry for her as I do for the BS. They both have major self esteem issues I think and this guy is just a huge a**hole! Honestly, he makes my xMM look like a saint.

 

As for my exMM's wife. If I am really honest, I don't have any strong feelings about her one way or another. I think neither of them is particularly happy in their marriage. I think it is sad. I think she will never know about our affair and I don't want her to. I have no interest in hurting her in that way. And, today I am not even angry with xMM anymore. I'm just going through the stages of grieving this relationship and it really hurt me that he tried to come back into my life after I had gotten a month under my belt. Like I said, it was like starting the grief process over again. My emotions change from day to day and I realize I probably shouldn't post about my feelings at all right now....I am so all over the place. Thanks for taking the time to explain your feelings to me though 26.

 

I understand where you're at. It's definintely a grieving process full of different stages. The good thing is that we can learn & grow from it, & not make the same bad decisions all over again. I wish you well!

[Steadfast]

I NEVER said cheating was ok. Tell me where I said it was ok. I don't think cheating is ok. I think it's what people who are unhappily married and too chicken to leave do. Yes, I cheated too...Yes I WAS a coward too! I admit it! I am not a coward anymore though, because I am leaving my unhappy marriage. And, I would expect him to not cheat on me because I will NEVER cheat on a partner again.

 

Curious G and if I may ask, what is your husband's take in this? Does he know about the affair? Has he tried to reconcile? Is he in love with you?

 

I applaud your conviction and find inspiration in your words, but there's a bittersweet twist to your story that I can't wrap my head around. Obviously (as you stated) you're not in love with your husband anymore, but given your current mental/emotional approach, could it return?

[Damia]

But what gives you the impression there was anything to fix besides the cheater? There may not have been anything wrong in the M and EVERYTHING wrong with the WS. And that is up to him/her to fix, and it is up to the BS whether or not to put up with a WS who refuses to fix it.

 

Well said,so true