My mind is fried

[silverphoenix]

This is going to be an incredibly long post, and I appreciate anyone who takes the time to thoroughly read it. I’m choosing to type this much because this situation is very, very complex and seems unique in comparison to others in this category. At the moment, this has had me thinking since the time it happened (June 26/27) and now, and I just need a very good opinion on it. I also want to point out that I’m (as well as the girl involved) a person of very high morals, despite what happened here, and that for about 3 months both of us have stopped each other from letting such a thing happen… until now.

 

I’ll start from the very beginning and list off key points, and try to get to what’s most important.

 

Last year, around June or so, I had been left by my ex (she cheated on me, though) and the girl involved (who is also a co-worker) immediately gave me her phone number. That struck me as odd. While my ex and I were together, she would constantly tell me that I’m with the wrong girl, that I’m wasting my time with my ex, and just was negative about me going out with my ex, overall. My ex would also make comments about this girl, saying that she wanted me and that she wanted to take me away from her. If that’s the case, I was the object of their desire and some sort of trophy for the two of them. Anyway, because I had that in mind, I was kind of hesitant about getting close to this girl, plus the fact that she had a boyfriend. Even though my ex left her boyfriend for me, I never friend women who are in relationships, unless we were friends beforehand. I knew I would be playing with fire, so I brushed her off and didn’t talk to her much for about 4 months.

 

Between June and December of 2010, we kind of had a strange friendship. We’d have disputes here and there, flirting here and there, and around November, I noticed that I started to get slightly attracted to her. In December, we had a huge argument, which lead us to not speak to each other for until February. And from that point on, things just start to get erratic.

 

Before I continue, I want to say a few things about the boyfriend. From the beginning of their relationship (which is on its 5th year), he did all kinds of bad things to her. He’d party all the time, she’d come home from work and find a bunch of girls passed out, drunk, around the apartment. He also had a picture of him with a random girl on his lap, at a club, posted on his Facebook. He isn’t very romantic/loving (basically, she shows all the care), says some harsh things to her, they would argue a lot, they have very different moral values, and to top it off, last August he moved 70 miles away from her. He left to get a job in the city, which is understandable, but he didn’t want her to move with him and said because he wanted to “live the single life” and he would much rather her get an apartment of her own, near him, instead. Yeah… I don’t really get that one. She didn’t do it, and stayed where she’s at. He’s also told her to go and date other guys, too? I mean, there’s a list of things. I don’t understand how and why she is so attached to him.

 

Anyway, continuing on with she and I. We started to talk again, and this time, there was no disputing or anything. We begun hanging out more outside of work, I met her family (yeah, I don’t get this one), and her family liked me a lot. Her mother even told her to drop her current BF for me, and that I’m the kind of guy she’s suppose to be dating. Her boyfriend found out about us hanging out because two of his friends saw us at a restaurant one day, and yeah. I always told her not to mention me, not to be “sneaky” or “sly”, but to show her that the only reason he started to come back around is because I came into her life. And the only way that she could lose attachment to him is if she doesn’t say a word about us hanging out, to him, and lets him drift… like he inevitably would, if he knows that she isn’t hanging around with me.

 

Despite us hanging out, constantly, neither of us had admitted feelings for the other until the end of March, though. After that, things got even more rocky. On their anniversary day, we got close to doing something physical, but I stopped her advances because I want her to leave him, first. I didn’t feel comfortable doing anything of that sort, unless she was a single woman. It was also interesting to me that she would do something like that, on that day? Also, he gave her a ring (not an engagement ring, however) on that day, and she still has yet to tell me about this ring. I found out from a friend of mine… and she chose to tell me everything about that day, but the ring.

 

Continuing on: We began to drift, and we had a period of not talking for about 3 weeks here. I went over to her apartment once in May, but that was it. And much of that month was a lot of arguing about her relationship, strange questions (which I will list in a moment), and just avoiding each other. Some of the questions she asked me were if kissing another guy was cheating, if having an online boyfriend would be cheating, and admitting to having a crush on me. She also said something about me having many opportunities in the past, and not taking them… which was not only a vague comment, but ironic considering what happens later.

 

So, I’m a bit frustrated because for months, I have subtly tried to break her off the boyfriend, gave her the best advice imaginable (phone conversations that would last 3 - 8 hours), and spent time with her on lonely nights… and SHOWED her that I’m not trying to get in her pants. June, we start off with mixed feelings: either we had positive exchanges or arguments about… you guessed it--her relationship and me expressing my frustration about where I stand with her (am I wrong for this?). Her feelings from her boyfriend are still attachment, and that was shown a few weeks back, on Father’s Day, when she didn’t really care too much about her boyfriend coming over to visit, and her flirting with me… again. It lead to a fight… about her relationship… again. Nothing happened, and interestingly enough, we set up another “date” the next weekend, which leads us to my current situation.

 

A few days before, I had went to visit her and again, we got very close to being physical. I haven’t made a mention of it, but I usually lay in bed with her until she falls asleep, then I lock her door and go back home. This time, however, she let me touch her in almost everywhere… and she even let me cuddle in bed with her. Leaving that day, I knew the next time something would happen. And I was correct.

 

For months she would play fight and wrestle with me, which is her way of flirting and trying to get me to make a move--at least, that’s what it seemed like to me. On this night, it went all the way. Now, it wasn’t full on intercourse, but there were sexual things that did happen. We were both nude, and yeah, I don’t need to describe anything, but again: there was no intercourse, just “minor” sexual acts. She looked at it as something that “just happened”, and she even made a comment that if she told her boyfriend about what happened, that he would leave her. I honestly don’t think he would, considering the things he’s done and the way he is, and how he only cares now because I’m in her life. Before me, he rarely showed up and didn’t even care. Does that justify what happened? Absolutely not.

 

The reason all this confuses me is because she knows I have feelings for her, and I’m still not 100% certain what her feelings are for me. However, after what was done, her looking at me and giving me those looks and stares of a woman in love makes me think that there was more behind it than just carnal lust. She’s a woman that doesn’t like being touched by anyone, stays to herself, and is very selective about who she associates with. This is also what makes it “unique” and “complicated” to me, because I have been around her enough to know that she doesn’t make ANY kind of moves like this, despite how good looking a guy is.

 

She hasn’t left him, either, which makes it even more frustrating. And these are the questions that arise:

 

Did she use me?

She finally got me to make a move, so why are things still the same?

Did she want something like this to happen to have a reason to leave him, in the future?

Did she want revenge on him?

Am I merely just a “bump” or tough spot in their relationship?

Am I being kept around for the future?

 

She said that we might drift apart after that incident, and wanted to move on from it and not think about it… but she seemed very open to me throughout the week, still flirted and she would send me pictures of herself. Just this Saturday, when her boyfriend was suppose to show up (who I think stood her up), she sent me pictures of her in a sexy outfit. She said that was her gift to me? And in one, she titled it “Waiting on the bf”, which could be taken negatively or positively. Negative in that she was teasing me, and positive in that he messed up (again) by not either not showing or being late and wanted me to start flirting with her. But it turned out bad whenever she brought up my ex--which she does often, and I still don’t understand why. I was also confused, too, because an hour later, she sent me a picture of her with her niece (in the same outfit) and titled it “Tru Love”, and it made me wonder… did he stand her up and not show up? I see it as very unlikely that he would show up and they would go immediately to her brother’s house, which is a 25 minute drive from where she lives.

 

I’m sorry for typing so much and overloading with information. I’m a thinker, and I’m creative, so when there is a problem… I will put forth incredibly amounts of energy and effort to have it solved. I’ve created complex universes, and theories, yet this--this is like no other challenge I’ve ever met in my life. I want answers, but I don’t get answers, and I try and try to break her off the boyfriend, and I’m not sure if that’s a bad thing? Maybe me expressing my frustration about her still being in a relationship with this guy is bad and annoys her? But it seems like she wants to date us both, and I don’t feel comfortable with this. She always gets angry at me when I’m bring up the boyfriend and put him down, but like I said, I don’t feel comfortable being boyfriend #2.

 

We’re in a “no contact” situation… again (haven’t talked to each other since Saturday), and I feel that we might go 2 - 4 weeks without talking, and then start all this back up. The fact that we got to that point--the physical point--is what keeps me latched onto this. She doesn’t do ANY of this attention seeking to any other guy but me. I’m not even sure she does it to her own boyfriend.

 

Neither is really making an effort to move back in with each other. He didn’t want it at first, but just recently offered her to quit her job and move in with him. She won’t do it, though, and she won’t even try to move closer. I don’t understand this at all? Honestly, what is the point? I got dragged into this, now too. And I just want some answers. I know what to do, but I just want some answers.

[PegNosePete]

I’m (as well as the girl involved) a person of very high morals

I find this quite laughable considering the rest of your story.

 

Here is a story about a scorpion and a fox. One day a scorpion and a fox wanted to cross a river, so the scorpion asked the fox for a ride on his back. The fox said "But you're a scorpion, you will sting me and I will drown!". The scorpion replied, "No, if you drown then I will drown too. So I will not sting you". Seeing the logic behind this, the fox said "OK" and they started to cross the river. Half-way across, the scorpion stings the fox. As the poison started to paralyze him, the fox asks "Why did you do this? Now we will both drown!". The scorpion replies, "I'm a scorpion. It's in my nature". And so they both drowned.

 

Dude. You knew she was a scorpion. You knew exactly what you were letting yourself in for. Now you complain that she has embroiled you into her twisted web of manipulation?

 

Move on from this train wreck.

[silverphoenix]

It may seem "laughable", but I've rejected so many offers of sex, and women that have wanted to date me. And lots of them were good looking. And the reason being that I don't date to just date, or to get sex--it's not me and I want something genuine and real, and everlasting. My intuition kept pointing to this one, despite my 4 - 5 month effort of trying to push her away. Even now, it still points to her, and I'm not understanding it. With my ex, it told me to move on after the 2nd time she cheated on me.

 

This girl, she didn't start dating until she was 22, and this guy is just her 2nd boyfriend. (She's 29 now.)

 

Anyway, your metaphor to the situation is interesting, but it doesn't answer the question. What does she want from me? There's an ulterior motive here, and when I try to uncover it, she will find ways to misdirect me. Honestly, if she did all this to just get some minor sexual favors from me... that would baffle me. One year's worth of effort...?

[absent]

As the "cheater" to the "other guy" she wants attention. You're the subsitute for her man to help her get back at him, to keep her company and keep his side of the bed warm...until he comes home. She's not innocent, and if she has gone that far with you to push you away, its just games and no one is really innocent here. She will probably never leave him if this has gone on for this long and so you're really just wasting your time. You're her puppet.

[PegNosePete]

Dude. She is just f*cked up. She is treating her BF like crap (though it seems that is mutual), she is treating you like crap, you are treating her like crap. I mean WTF. Just move on and who cares why she did it or what she wants? It's a train wreck dude. You can use all sorts of psychobabble and speculation to determine her motives and what she was thinking but at the end of the day it's just because she is f*cked up. I don't think you'll get any better explanation than that.

[silverphoenix]

Then I guess ignoring her is the best option, and I'll just explain myself to her... again, should she question me. She has so many other guys that follow, yet I'm this "special" one? That's what frustrates me about the whole thing.

 

I agree, she is f***ed up, but I'm still a fool.

 

As the "cheater" to the "other guy" she wants attention. You're the subsitute....

 

Your post made me re-evaluate my last relationship. I was my ex's "puppet", until something came over me and I ended contact with her completely. She still makes passes at me, even though we've been apart for a year.

 

Also, it made me look at my situation with this girl, differently. She did make a mention about how my ex wanted to keep me around because of the affection and care that I give. That might be what all this is about: her desire for affection and care, and wanting what I have to offer (the emotional part)... but still wanting to keep the BF at the same time.

 

Thanks, your post helped me a lot. More than all the advice I was given the last month about this.

[absent]

Yeah I feel like she saw something (good) in you that she's taking advantage of. I feel like you're the back up guy, the understudy, and if her boyfriend is the one who breaks it off with her (which doesn't sound like he's planning to any time soon) then she will probably run back to you. Each time he treats her wrong, she comes to you. You're always there to reassure her with friendship, love, support and affection.

 

I feel like from the way she was getting into your business with your ex, she sort of preyed on you, watched how you were with her and perhaps wants the same thing from you but you're just not important enough for her to leave her boyfriend because he's whom she clearly loves. And unless you have low-self esteem you need to know your worth and you're worth more than being the back-up plan, the string-along.

 

Unless you want into her panties that is, well if so hurry up and do it but you'd be a fool to think it would make her love you and ultimately leave him for you. But no, she has to "let" you touch her first. She has to be in control of how much you can have and what you do, but you being in her bed, being so close behind her boyfriend's back isn't the right thing to do either. You're a knowing participant so you're not exactly being played.

 

Yet I'm finding it funny how she is in control of how far things can go, so she can lie to herself and feel a little better about herself and still get her cake and eat it too since you didn't "exactly" sleep together. But while you were fooling around her boyfriend can go to hell, because while you're laying in bed with her, she was probably thinking, "Well hell, my boyfriend's probably out doing or has done the same thing with someone else, but look who I have here to keep me company."

 

You seem like a decent guy caught up and manipulated into a strange situation that is making you do immoral things and the best thing to do is ignore her and cut her off, but because you're attached to her it might be hard to do. Why because she might reach out to you more desperately than ever if she feels that she's losing you and can no longer get a fix once the attention and affection from her boyfriend runs dry again. Things may all of a sudden appear to turn more dramatic than what it is with her boyfriend too. She might even tell you that she "loves" you, however there's always going to be a "but" and probably excuses, you might even come "so close" to being together.

 

Take into consideration what she is continuing to do guiltlessly behind her boyfriend's back and if you two do magically get together. Sure you would never treat her the way her boyfriend treats her -but- what happens when she gets bored with you? If things were to settle and you can't always be lovey dovey Mr. Nice Guy all the time? She might do these same "little things" with someone else. You're probably more special because you're willing to go further than the other guys probably and play by her rules.

 

The little sexy pictures is to keep you hooked and as a back-up plan to make sure that she doesn't lose you. Insurance. I understand that you have feelings for her, but if you -must- have her, then please be 100% completely sure that she leaves her boyfriend. That should be your only terms, no more compromise, no more waiting, all or nothing, and if you're going to remain friends, set boundaries. If you want to have sex with her, know that you're just the other guy and that she's just using you for when her boyfriend's not there, but since you believe you still have morals, you know the right thing to do.

Edited July 5, 2011 by absent