Want to keep the small annoyances small

[sunshinegirl]

Hi LSers! I could use some advice from the more seasoned married folks on here. I'm sorry in advance for the length of this post!

 

Context: I've been married for about 9 months. We dated for a year before getting married (engaged after 7 months); I was 36 and he was 38 when we got married. Our first trial as a married couple was my breast cancer diagnosis 3 days before the wedding. We sailed through that crisis (my health is great today), and we are currently trying for our first child.

 

Now that the health crisis dust has settled, I find I am getting annoyed at what I think are either (a) minor issues with easy solutions that I just can't think of right now and/or (b) bigger differences in our habits and preferences that will most likely not change and therefore I need to develop some new coping skills.

 

The minor issues mostly revolve our different preferences around clutter & messiness around the house. My husband has a lower tolerance for things like toothbrushes left on the sink rim, making the bed everyday, putting dishes in the dishwasher right away, that sort of thing. That's mostly fine; it's pretty easy for me to accommodate these wishes.

 

Where I get annoyed is that he doesn't seem to reciprocate when it comes to the things that bother me: namely, boxes of his singing group's merch and gear sitting in the middle of our (my) office; piles of paper (receipts, ticket stubs, cards) all over the bureau in our guest bedroom; and the wedding thank-you's that he still hasn't written (about 70; I've written about 70 myself). The clutter and procrastination drive me nuts, yet I have to ask for months on end before he does anything about it. I wind up feeling like a nag, and mildly resentful; and he feels nagged and mothered.

 

The bigger differences in our habits and preferences revolve around his general procrastination and lack of follow through, which are starting to frustrate me in other areas as well. Recently I have noticed myself becoming critical of his health & nutrition choices and I don't like this trait in myself. By his own admission, he wants to eat better and lose 20-30 pounds, yet he is pretty inconsistent in the choices he makes about food and exercise. For example, he simply doesn't self-motivate to work out, so it's only if I go out running with him that he will keep it up for more than a few days at a time. Beyond that, I feel like he almost looks for reasons not to follow the workout schedule and that annoys me. My feeling is - if you're going to make a commitment (and I have not pushed him into any kind of commitment - this is all coming from him), then make the darn commitment and follow through! I have a procrastination/laziness streak myself, so part of me can definitely relate, but another part gets annoyed because I have found ways to motivate myself and manage my own lazy tendencies... why can't he?

 

We're both making more of an effort to eat better, but he has been a fast food junkie for a long time, much more so than I ever was. I know I should focus on the better choices he has been making recently (rewarding & encouraging), instead I laser in on the fact that he ordered a side of hash browns with breakfast the other day (why????). In my head I know that being critical isn't going to help, but I'm finding it harder to follow the adage I heard once of "Keep your eyes wide open before marriage, and half shut afterwards."

 

In sum: I married him knowing he has these traits; I love him and at a broad, philosophical level I can accept the differences in how we engage life. But how to translate that to a practical way for me to manage these everyday frustrations?

 

I've considered asking if we could do a joint counseling session with his therapist to talk through these things while they're still at the "annoying" level instead of "raging resentment" level. We've certainly raised the issues with each other, so it's not a matter of not being able to discuss them. Where I feel stuck is that the conversations don't seem to lead to lasting change, so I partly feel that a third party can provide us with some missing perspective. We saw this therapist together for some pre-marital counseling and we've always said we'd be willing to get back in that room as needed.

 

Beyond that, I know that I cannot expect him to fundamentally change his stripes and so part of me probably needs to learn to accept that one of my husband's weaknesses is lack of follow through despite lots of inspired words about changes he plans to make. What would help me make this internal shift such that boxes of crap in the condo and his need for a workout partner won't bother me so much?

 

I'd welcome any and all advice from marriage veterans about how you've learned to navigate similar issues. Thanks!

[xxoo]

Where I get annoyed is that he doesn't seem to reciprocate when it comes to the things that bother me: namely, boxes of his singing group's merch and gear sitting in the middle of our (my) office; piles of paper (receipts, ticket stubs, cards) all over the bureau in our guest bedroom; and the wedding thank-you's that he still hasn't written (about 70; I've written about 70 myself). The clutter and procrastination drive me nuts, yet I have to ask for months on end before he does anything about it. I wind up feeling like a nag, and mildly resentful; and he feels nagged and mothered.

 

My H is messier than me. Over the years, we've learned to respect each other's "clean spaces" and "messy spaces". For example, he never, ever, EVER leaves clutter on my dining room furniture. The kitchen is another clutter-free zone. But he does have a couple convenient "clutter spots" for his receipts and papers and "stuff", and I never, ever touch it or complain about it.

 

If I had waited for my H to send a thank you note after our marriage, I'd still be waiting, lol! And it has been over 15 years! Those social graces are just NOT important to him. They are important to me, so I do them. There are many, many things that he does to make up for me writing 100% of the thank you notes in our marriage

 

The bigger differences in our habits and preferences revolve around his general procrastination and lack of follow through, which are starting to frustrate me in other areas as well. Recently I have noticed myself becoming critical of his health & nutrition choices and I don't like this trait in myself. By his own admission, he wants to eat better and lose 20-30 pounds, yet he is pretty inconsistent in the choices he makes about food and exercise. For example, he simply doesn't self-motivate to work out, so it's only if I go out running with him that he will keep it up for more than a few days at a time. Beyond that, I feel like he almost looks for reasons not to follow the workout schedule and that annoys me. My feeling is - if you're going to make a commitment (and I have not pushed him into any kind of commitment - this is all coming from him), then make the darn commitment and follow through! I have a procrastination/laziness streak myself, so part of me can definitely relate, but another part gets annoyed because I have found ways to motivate myself and manage my own lazy tendencies... why can't he?

 

Why can't he? Because he isn't you, and he has different strengths and weaknesses than you. Committing to exercise and fitness is tougher for him than it is for you.

 

I bolded the part that I did because it seems like you are really upset about something that has little to do with you. This is his struggle with his fitness. Why is it so emotionally loaded for you?

[sunshinegirl]

xxoo, thanks for your input!!

 

Good question (why it's so loaded for me). I think because I fear he will totally let himself go and gain another 30-40 pounds, like his father. Or...closer to home...wind up like MY father, who is also quite overweight and extremely sedentary, to the point where he complains if he has to walk more than 2 blocks anywhere, and I am convinced is going to drop dead one day from a heart attack or stroke. Behaviorally, my own dad is morphing into HIS dad (my grandfather), whom I remember as a crochety old man who did nothing but sit in his armchair and complain. His quality of life was pretty crummy, and he was no picnic to be around, either.

 

Huh. I guess a lot of it is connected to my (overblown?) fears that I will wind up with a spouse who doesn't take care of himself and winds up not being able to participate in anything remotely active with family members who love him and want him to be part of things.

[Afishwithabike]

If I waited for my husband to write a thank you letter, it wouldn't get done.

 

I write the thank you letters. I handled all the thank you letters for our wedding. Even now, I send holiday greeting cards to his family. I'm the one that remembered yesterday to write a check for his nephew's high school graduation gift. I grew up with parents who were very much into manners and etiquette. Accordingly, I write letters to his mom who lives several states away. I remember to send her photos of her grandchild. I buy all the Christmas gifts for his family. He doesn't really seem to mind what I buy so long as I buy them something. I'm just better at remembering people's birthdays and milestones. He doesn't find those things important. I accept that I have to do these things because he does a lot in other areas.

 

On the other hand, he is very neat and tidy. He always has been. His clothes are folded and put away the way you see at a fancy department store. His home office is spotless. I jokingly tell him "an empty desk is a sign of an empty mind."

 

He doesn't have an obsessive compulsive disorder, mind you. He just happens to like everything in its place. He cleans the house because he likes it done a certain way. One of our first fights as a married couple was over housekeeping. He didn't like how I cleaned. I said "fine, if you want to do it certain way then you do it. " So he has for the past 11 years. That way both of us are happy. I'm no slob or hoarder, but I can tolerate a certain level of clutter. He can't. He hates to see a small pile of letters or magazines. He keeps the rooms so tidy we could have visitors over anytime.

 

I pick my battles. Some things you've mentioned like the issues with clutter you have to let go and accept that's who they are. It's not like I have to accept excessive drinking, cussing, or gambling.

 

If the exercise issue is bothering you that much then have a talk with him. Realistically there's only so much *you* can do for his weight. You can continue to encourage him to join you when you run. You can cook healthy meals for him. You can keep the junk food away from the house. You can limit the number of times you eat out. You can take him to the doctor for regular health checkups. You can do all those things, but he can still sabotage those efforts if he wanted to because he will have time every day away from you where he can indulge in things that are bad for his health. Instead of nagging him, maybe you could start a new after dinner tradition of going for a walk (assuming it's safe to do so in your neighborhood). Maybe you can encourage him to take up a sport - martial arts, team sport, something you two can do together.

[xxoo]

If I waited for my husband to write a thank you letter, it wouldn't get done.

.

 

Glad I'm not the only one!

 

I think it is probably pretty common for the wife to handle the thank you notes. It's "Miss Manners", afterall. This is a woman's game of women's social rules.

 

Huh. I guess a lot of it is connected to my (overblown?) fears that I will wind up with a spouse who doesn't take care of himself and winds up not being able to participate in anything remotely active with family members who love him and want him to be part of things.

 

At this point, probably overblown! He's the same weight, fitness, and activity level as when you married him, right? If nothing has changed, then there is nothing to worry about.

[sunshinegirl]

Thank you, everyone, for your perspectives and experience. I'm sorry it's taken me several days to come back to this thread.

 

I agree that the key will be shifting my attitude & perspective, and getting creative with solutions if something is really bugging me (loved the shower hook example, sadintexas!).

 

I know I can do it... partly because nearly every day I hear stories of other relationships that make me so thankful for what I have in H... reminding myself of all of his good qualities so that I don't let the annoyances expand their real estate in my brain.

 

Thanks again!

[lordWilhelm]

So I have a slightly different perspective on clutter. You think it's because he's procrastinating on doing the laundry or throwing away old papers. I tend to clutter as well, but that's because I don't want to procrastinate on more important things by doing trivialities! I also find it more efficient of my time to let things clutter and then declutter them in one fell swoop (although that can backfire sometimes in the sense that if I let things clutter too much, then I start dreading the large declutter session, and at this point I am actually procrastinating...) I like xxoo's solution with designating certain spaces as being clutter-free, and some clutter-tolerant.

 

As for the fitness & weight problem, I really don't know what to suggest. I certainly think you shouldn't nag him about it as that's 100% guaranteed going to fail and create resentment; my mother went from very overweight and passive to slim and active within six months because something "switched" in her brain (her own description) and not because my father has been nagging her for ten years. Your husband clearly doesn't view it as a priority right now, and pretty much the only suggestions I have are to continue to be setting an example and being encouraging towards a healthy lifestyle -- including working out with him if he asks and offer too sometimes. Hopefully you guys can find a sport or activity that you can regularly do together that could act as a pivot for him wanting to put his fitness on a higher level of importance.

Edited July 13, 2011 by lordWilhelm

[PinkInTheLimo]

The minor issues mostly revolve our different preferences around clutter & messiness around the house. My husband has a lower tolerance for things like toothbrushes left on the sink rim, making the bed everyday, putting dishes in the dishwasher right away, that sort of thing. That's mostly fine; it's pretty easy for me to accommodate these wishes.

 

Are you kidding me? He gives you a hard time about that but leaves his clutter in your office. What a jerk!

 

By his own admission, he wants to eat better and lose 20-30 pounds, yet he is pretty inconsistent in the choices he makes about food and exercise. For example, he simply doesn't self-motivate to work out, so it's only if I go out running with him that he will keep it up for more than a few days at a time. Beyond that, I feel like he almost looks for reasons not to follow the workout schedule and that annoys me.

 

Overweight people are overweight for a reason. A healthy person will take action when he sees that his body is expanding. Hell, I have just been on a holiday where I ate more than I normally do which resulted in 2 kilos extra. Well, this week I won't eat any desserts and I know that by the end of the week at least 1 kilo will be gone. Mind you, I am slim and noone even sees these 2 kilos except me.

 

My verdict: you married a guy with whom you are not compatible. These things won't change and will erode your positive feelings for him.

And believe me, once there will be a child, it will get worse because then there won't be always time to exercise and eat healthy.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Good question (why it's so loaded for me). I think because I fear he will totally let himself go and gain another 30-40 pounds, like his father. Or...closer to home...wind up like MY father, who is also quite overweight and extremely sedentary, to the point where he complains if he has to walk more than 2 blocks anywhere, and I am convinced is going to drop dead one day from a heart attack or stroke. Behaviorally, my own dad is morphing into HIS dad (my grandfather), whom I remember as a crochety old man who did nothing but sit in his armchair and complain. His quality of life was pretty crummy, and he was no picnic to be around, either.

 

Huh. I guess a lot of it is connected to my (overblown?) fears that I will wind up with a spouse who doesn't take care of himself and winds up not being able to participate in anything remotely active with family members who love him and want him to be part of things.

 

It is not an overblown fear as his and your father show. If he does not change this fundamentally, he will become even heavier.

 

I would for the life of me not marry an overweight guy. They are overweight because they can't say no to food and that is a big turn-off for me. Nothing as disgusting as watching a guy who is pushing food inside him like a big baby.

 

You married this guy because he seemed like a safe choice after having been with jerks but I think that if you look deep down in yourself, you don't really find him attractive, esp. since you are quite athletic from what I understand.

[sb129]

SSG- welcome to married life!

 

JK, kind of.

 

I still don't have a wedding album, and we have been married 2.5 years. I stopped asking after our second wedding anniversary, and last week he started it again of his own accord. I take care of ALL thank you cards, birthday gifts etc. Including those for his family.

 

I have relinquished the home office that used to be "ours"- H is setting up his own business in there and it is a total cesspit. i don't even go in there now because it stresses me out too much. I close the door and ignore it. If his clutter extends beyond the office, I just pick it all up throw it back in there, and close the door.

Hs side of the bed is the one nearest the wall and I can't see it from my side or the door. So I can't see the dirty laundry he dumps on the floor by his side of the bed. If I don't see it, it doesn't piss me off.

 

Married life is a juggling act- you do learn to let things go more easily, and you learn how far you can push things. I don't wig out at half the things I used to, because I actually can't be bothered now. We're still here and our house isn't that untidy, things get done. I agree with letting messy people have a designated messy area- it seems to help with my H.

 

Also- the number one thing that stopped us arguing about housework and mess was to get a cleaner.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Married life is a juggling act- you do learn to let things go more easily, and you learn how far you can push things. I don't wig out at half the things I used to, because I actually can't be bothered now. We're still here and our house isn't that untidy, things get done. I agree with letting messy people have a designated messy area- it seems to help with my H.

 

Also- the number one thing that stopped us arguing about housework and mess was to get a cleaner.

 

Well, if married life is about accepting that a man remains a caveman who just throws whatever he feels like throwing on the ground, then I guess there is a reason why I am not married... I don't like cavemen and I don't see the advantage of living with them.

No, seriously, I am not a maniac in my household but it seems to me that the things that are described here are in the first place a lack of respect. These are attitudes which can change, if one wants to change.

I have no problem with a designed clutter area where one can make as much clutter as one wants but in the common areas both partners should do an effort to clean up their stuff. It is so much nicer to sleep (and to have sex) in a bedroom which is clean, without clutter.

It is so much nicer to have a partner who does an effort to be in shape.

"Be the best person you can be." I think love for yourself and your partner also means that.

 

In my opinion, it is those kind of things which make people come and post here after 10/15 years of marriage, saying that the sparks have gone. You can say they are details, but don't forget that the Grand Canyon was also made by drop by drop of water...

 

BTW, I am a terrible hoarder but since my last relationship I have really done an effort to throw things away and keep less. It was not that my then BF ever said something about it, it was just that I started to see my place through his eyes and realized that I was fed up with having too much stuff.

[make me believe]

No, seriously, I am not a maniac in my household but it seems to me that the things that are described here are in the first place a lack of respect. These are attitudes which can change, if one wants to change.

I have no problem with a designed clutter area where one can make as much clutter as one wants but in the common areas both partners should do an effort to clean up their stuff. It is so much nicer to sleep (and to have sex) in a bedroom which is clean, without clutter.

It is so much nicer to have a partner who does an effort to be in shape.

"Be the best person you can be." I think love for yourself and your partner also means that.

 

In my opinion, it is those kind of things which make people come and post here after 10/15 years of marriage, saying that the sparks have gone. You can say they are details, but don't forget that the Grand Canyon was also made by drop by drop of water...

 

I have to agree with Pink. I think these are fundamental incompatability issues, the kind that stay with a couple and can cause huge resentments down the line even though they seem like small annoyances now.

 

The fact that you willingly make an effort to pick up your toothbrush, or whatever he has a problem with, but he doesn't make the same effort for you is a HUGE problem, IMO. It shows a complete lack of respect. And the fact that you have only been married for 9 months, together for less than 2 years, but you already describe nagging him for MONTHS just to do simple tasks is quite frankly something I can't wrap my head around.

 

Your husband doesn't want to change. He doesn't care about picking up his clutter even though it bothers you, and even though you care enough about him to accomodate the things that bother him. How does one accept that without becoming resentful? I have no idea. I am not sure it is possible in the long term. (Or at least I know it wouldn't be for me.)

[xxoo]

Your husband doesn't want to change. He doesn't care about picking up his clutter even though it bothers you, and even though you care enough about him to accomodate the things that bother him. How does one accept that without becoming resentful? I have no idea. I am not sure it is possible in the long term. (Or at least I know it wouldn't be for me.)

 

I think the bolded is a very key thing to accept! Of course he doesn't want to change. Who does?

 

Assigning value like "he doesn't care about me enough" based on little stuff like differences in tidiness (NOT talking about dealbreakers like dysfunctional hoarding) is not helpful or reasonable.

 

I can tell you how this has played out in our marriage--

 

There were arguments, push and pull for control, and then eventually the compromise of clutter/clutter free spaces. When I completely let go of his messy spaces, and focused on enjoying my tidy spaces, a funny thing happened. He started to appreciate my spaces, and got tidier with age.

 

And I started to relax a bit, and get less worked up about messes when they happen.

 

And we've mostly settled into a peaceful middle ground

 

In a happy longterm marriage, you wear off each other's rough edges.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Yes you are older, but that is really a whirlwind imo. The weight issue I have to laugh at and ask if you are being honest. Do you want him skinny only due to health reasons or is this sexual and want to find him attractive. If he was sedentary at 36, I promise in most cases he will be that at 38 unless he is unhappy with himself. As for junk food it will always be there, can be better contained....

 

Also trust me, he did not want to marry his mother..... If he did then you have deeper issues:p:laugh:.....

 

You certainly need counseling because you married later in life, set in ways and after a very short courtship.

 

Also you are rushing to have a child and that will create more stresses and issues.

 

As for thank you letters.... You write them and compromise and have him do something you'd rather not do. My spouse continually wants to write thank yous for every little thing (I remember the children being told to write thankyous for every present received at a birthday party). I believe a sincere thank you at the event and maybe a follow-up a few weeks later is plenty. If she does not agree then yes it is her responsibility. This is a powerplay on your part and frankly a common/oft repeated female lament.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[sunshinegirl]

I wanted to thank everyone for weighing in on this thread. There was quite a diversity of views for me to parse.

 

One or two folks seemed especially appalled by the double standard, deeming my husband a selfish jerk. I can assure you that those two terms really don't describe him at all; I do think this is one area of blindness but the broader context is one of him being incredibly thoughtful and generous in many, many other areas. And we have a good track record, thus far, of resolving other spats. For that reason, I'm not ready to make this a mountain when I do think it remains a molehill-sized problem.

 

As for the health/physical activity side of things, H has impressed me with his dedication to our training schedule (running relay in September). Four weeks in, he has missed only two runs due to mild illness/injury. He saw a doctor recently and I think has gotten a bit more concerned about his own health, which in turn may be motivating him on the exercise front.

 

Someone asked whether this was about attraction rather than health for me. At the moment, I don't think so. Our sexual appetite is pretty well matched and I am attracted to him now.

[OliveOyl]

Yes you are older, but that is really a whirlwind imo. The weight issue I have to laugh at and ask if you are being honest. Do you want him skinny only due to health reasons or is this sexual and want to find him attractive. If he was sedentary at 36, I promise in most cases he will be that at 38 unless he is unhappy with himself. As for junk food it will always be there, can be better contained....

 

Also trust me, he did not want to marry his mother..... If he did then you have deeper issues:p:laugh:.....

 

You certainly need counseling because you married later in life, set in ways and after a very short courtship.

 

Also you are rushing to have a child and that will create more stresses and issues.

While it's pretty quick, I would not consider this to be a whirlwind courtship. And if they DO want children, at 36 she should start now, biologically speaking. That's not rushing, that's being realistic about one's biological clock.

 

I disagree with PinkIntheLimo's comments, btw. Weight can be a very complicated issue (as many posts throughout this forum show) and it's not simply a matter of "pushing food inside him like a big baby"... what a mean-spirited thing to say.

 

Anyway, good luck to you. I think personally if I married someone who had different standard of either cleanliness or clutter, I would probably do a lot of the cleaning/organizing myself ... but then I actually LIKE most cleaning/organizing tasks, they are fun for me.

[torn_curtain]

Personally I would not be able to be married to a man who wasn't able to stay in shape...because I know it would just get worse over time. For me it would make me lose respect for him, make me worry about his health and also diminish my attraction. But everyone is different. My father is overweight at the moment and my mother seems accepting of it even though she is in great shape.

 

If I were you I'd ASSUME that he will continue to put on weight and get more sedentary (either a little or a lot). That is the most probable outcome statistically, as people tend to gain weight over time and it's extremely difficult for adults over a certain age to change lifetime habits. Now ask yourself if you can accept that outcome?

[sb129]

Having a child will only excaberate the issues you have now. Learn to live together, before you add a baby into the mix.

 

Your problems are not insurmontable. Married couples get through much worse every day. He's not perfect and neither are you.

 

You have two choices: Accept that a new marriage brings challenges and respectfully communicate your feelings to your husband or let petty issues ruin your marriage.

 

Yes, to a point however I found becoming a parent made me more relaxed about things like mess- you have to relax some standards when there is a toddler in the house.

[Lauriebell82]

Obviously I am not a seasoned veteran but can relate to your story. As you know I am a newlywed, shoe is on the other foot though. My husband is the naggy annoying OCD person and I am the procrastinator messy wife. I have gotten a TON better, but I am still not to "his level." It's an ongoing battle with us, probably always will be. I really try to clean as much as I can, if something isn't clean and he gets stressed out, he goes to his office while I can everything up and his anxiety calms down. He absolutely LOVES when I have cleaned, his face lights up like it was Christmas or something. Our iron broke the other day so we went to Walmart to buy a new one. When I was looking at the irons he came over to me and said that he was getting turned on with how "domestic" I looked!!!

 

As far as the baby thing, obviously babies make a mess so that's something we will have to work out when the time comes, we both are going to have to work hard and chip in to keep things neat.

 

In short SSG, nobody is perfect. You married him knowing his flaws, nobody likes to accept flaws, but accepting that neither of you are perfect and dealing with issues will make you much less stressed out. Accept that your relationship isn't perfect, and be willing to forgive when you two have an argument. Remember at the end of the day that you love each other and can get through anything together. That's why you married each other!

[Els]

Gosh, with the way some people jump on the 'too much incompatibility, you shouldn't have married' bandwagon, you'd think only 1% of the people on Earth will ever be qualified to marry.

 

OP - two separate issues here, I think. With regards to you getting all worked up about him not being able to maintain his own diet routine.. I think you should try and not mother him. I typically try to keep a hands-off approach on my SO's personal life unless it affects me somehow or is greatly detrimental to him. Pick your battles.

 

With regards to the procrastination, I think you should talk with him and nicely lay out the terms: You do such and such that he wants, and in return he does such and such that you want.