Are some women simply incapable of having a healthy relationship?

[Woggle]

I am really starting to think so. A guy I work with was engaged to a woman who was in a horrible relationship for a few years. She broke up with this guy four years ago so she had plenty of time to get over him but she ends up cheating on him with a convicted batterer and he is just dumbfounded. He is devasted because he truly loved her. I told him he needs to get her off and never provide a place for her to fall when she gets hurt again.

 

I see this time and time again where men get involved with women with a history of being mistreated and it blows up in their face. They treat these women better than any man has treated them and these women just go nuts and can't handle it. I really think that some are just a lost cause.

[carhill]

TBH, after a lifetime of it, if on a date and it (recitation of toxic exes and R's/M's) starts up, I look for the door and, if a 'friend', I back away from the friendship. Life is far too short to spend it with anything less than positive and healthy people. I've done my time in that penitentiary. It's permanent parole now.

 

Prior, in answer to the question, I would have said 'no'. Now I say 'yes'. Lots of painful life experience separates that change of opinion. I empathize but from a safe distance.

[Stung]

I like to think that the majority of people are capable of healing if they work on themselves and get help and learn from their mistakes. Incapable is just a strong word.

 

I have met a lot of people who seriously need that help, though, and seem like they will never seek/accept it, and/or who have real difficulty with the levels of introspection and vulnerability required to learn from their mistakes.

[Lemontang]

I have met a lot of people who seriously need that help, though, and seem like they will never seek/accept it, and/or who have real difficulty with the levels of introspection and vulnerability required to learn from their mistakes.

 

Too true, I 2nd that statement. I've even dated people who where hesitant because I wasn't an ******* like previous partners and frankly found me being a nice guy was too alien for them. But in contrast I've had others who took this concept as a fresh beginning to where they could be themselves for the first time.

 

So it really is an individual thing.

[thatone]

TBH, after a lifetime of it, if on a date and it (recitation of toxic exes and R's/M's) starts up, I look for the door and, if a 'friend', I back away from the friendship. Life is far too short to spend it with anything less than positive and healthy people. I've done my time in that penitentiary. It's permanent parole now.

 

Prior, in answer to the question, I would have said 'no'. Now I say 'yes'. Lots of painful life experience separates that change of opinion. I empathize but from a safe distance.

 

i don't even empathize anymore, after being taken for a ride by my share of such women i blame them for their dysfunctional relationships. they deserve it. it's not like they lacked opportunity to do better for themselves. i simply don't care.

 

i'm recently in contact with a friend of a friend like that. the friend of mine is friends with the bastard boyfriend, they grew up together. the girlfriend has one baby already, and the boyfriend's goal in life is to get disability so he can stay home and drink all day every day. in the meantime he works sparingly and takes advantage of mutual friends of theirs, constantly borrowing money, borrowing someone's car (he wrecked the girlfriend's car, of course), etc.

 

i don't care about how bad she's got it. the sister is in a relationship with the friend of mine, and i don't care about what the sister thinks either, to be honest. recently had a situation where they had left the baby with the grandmother to come over to my house to swim in my pool, and the grandmother calls, saying the baby is sick, and he's trying to convince her to go home by herself so he can stay at the party. bullsh*t, i sent em home together. the girlfriend at the same time is pleading with me NOT to send him with her to avoid having to argue with him, so i told her the same thing, bullsh*t, if you don't wanna deal with him leave him, it's not my problem, but i'm not helping you. if your mother calls and says you need to come pick up your baby both of you are leaving.

 

i figure they lacked good parents to lay down the law for them when they were younger so i'll gladly do it for them now .

Edited July 6, 2011 by thatone

[smudge21]

Was always brought up to treat others as you wish to be treated. I carry this on when meeting women and dating them. I know that some I've been out with have had bad backgrounds, terrible childhoods and destructive relationships. I've been told many times that I'm not like other jerks they've dated. It's felt good to hear and that's made me want more than anything to treat them well. Show them how they should be respected and loved... sadly a few times this has led to them still leaving and going back to their old ways - dating guys who are going to treat them like dirt.

 

We all like to feel we can help people, maybe even save them, be the hero so to speak. Maybe that's why some of us nice guys end up with damaged girls (so to speak). We see it as something we must do, something we have to do. So despite all the red flags and warning signs, we jump straight in, confident we can make their lives better. When you care for someone that much it's very easy to fall for them, then when they revert to their old ways it can hurt even more.

[AlexDP]

Was always brought up to treat others as you wish to be treated. I carry this on when meeting women and dating them. I know that some I've been out with have had bad backgrounds, terrible childhoods and destructive relationships. I've been told many times that I'm not like other jerks they've dated. It's felt good to hear and that's made me want more than anything to treat them well. Show them how they should be respected and loved... sadly a few times this has led to them still leaving and going back to their old ways - dating guys who are going to treat them like dirt.

 

We all like to feel we can help people, maybe even save them, be the hero so to speak. Maybe that's why some of us nice guys end up with damaged girls (so to speak). We see it as something we must do, something we have to do. So despite all the red flags and warning signs, we jump straight in, confident we can make their lives better. When you care for someone that much it's very easy to fall for them, then when they revert to their old ways it can hurt even more.

 

You guys are forgetting the fact that generally the only one who tells you about these "jerks" is the girl in question. Sometimes they really date jerks, but they'll perceive nice guys as jerks anyway, because they are that messed up in the head. As harsh as it may sound, I think there's about 25% of women I don't even talk to anymore. I'm starting to believe many are brought up on a pedestal by their parents too, because the sense of entitlement of many young women is sickening. The rise of narcissism among women (and to a lesser extent among men) is really causing difficulties in our society.

[thatone]

 

We all like to feel we can help people, maybe even save them, be the hero so to speak. Maybe that's why some of us nice guys end up with damaged girls (so to speak). We see it as something we must do, something we have to do. So despite all the red flags and warning signs, we jump straight in, confident we can make their lives better. When you care for someone that much it's very easy to fall for them, then when they revert to their old ways it can hurt even more.

 

i'm not against that idea at all. but the best you can do is offer, and the offer doesn't come without strings. take it with that frame of mind and the lost causes will be a lot easier to stomach.

[Woggle]

I was telling him today the same thing that I tell to men in general. They need to get out of the savior approach when it comes to dating. There are plenty of women out there living their lives and trying to survive in this world without causing a big drama and turning everything they touch into a major ordeal. They do exist though you might not notice them.

 

Why don't more men go for these types instead of trying to save drama addicts from themselves. If a person has a string of bad relationships they are either partly to blame or they are horrible at picking people. Either way they won't make good partners. Men have this need to be a knight in shining armor and we need to override that. Find a woman who has her head screwed on right.

[smudge21]

You guys are forgetting the fact that generally the only one who tells you about these "jerks" is the girl in question. Sometimes they really date jerks, but they'll perceive nice guys as jerks anyway, because they are that messed up in the head. As harsh as it may sound, I think there's about 25% of women I don't even talk to anymore. I'm starting to believe many are brought up on a pedestal by their parents too, because the sense of entitlement of many young women is sickening. The rise of narcissism among women (and to a lesser extent among men) is really causing difficulties in our society.

 

Yeah, I see your point - women who think they are too good for anyone. But I'm referring to girls who have been through bad times, very obvious bad times too. Often it's related back to how their parents were - if the mother was mistreated by the father or whatever. They then mix with partners who mistreat them too. It's like to them that's how things should be, so when someone nice comes along, it's all foreign to them.

 

My first love, her ex was 20 years older and used to show his love with his fists, if you get me. Mother went through the same prior to this. The ex used to love spending time with me, but he was always around somewhere (they had a kid together from earlier). I really tried to repair the damage and show her how things should be but she ended up going back to him. The bond between them was too strong for me to break. I eventually had to walk away - it's only now, many years later, that (thanks to Facebook) I know she's better and having a good life with her daughter. That's at least some comfort.

 

I do understand your take on it though and have met girls like that, and have been labelled the jerk afterwards even though I did nothing wrong, lol.

[thatone]

I'm starting to believe many are brought up on a pedestal by their parents too, because the sense of entitlement of many young women is sickening. The rise of narcissism among women (and to a lesser extent among men) is really causing difficulties in our society.

 

that's exactly what it is. there's no question about it, and it applies to both sexes although women are the only sex that can get away with it for as long as they do. men at some point are simply cut off by their parents and have no choice but to provide for themselves (at least in greater numbers than women are).

 

look at the thread from a few hours ago from the woman with the 28 year old boyfriend who still lived with his parents so he could spend all of his money on cars and other toys. that's not uncommon these days. and the only thing the girlfriend saw wrong with that was that he lived a couple hours away. hello? tell him to get his ass outta his mother's house and he can live wherever he wants.

[Woggle]

I am convinced that people in general need some kind of struggle to overcome in order to grow up. It makes them better people plus they learn to appreciate when they have it good. I left home at 16 and it was sink or swim for me so I just can't relate to that attitudes of a lot of people today.

[thatone]

same, i worked from the time i was 17, and mom and stepdad got transferred to another state in their jobs when i was a senior in high school, i've provided for myself since then.

 

nothing would make me happier than to see these 28-32 year olds still living off their parents cut off en masse.

[smudge21]

Two girls I know - one was forced to fend for herself (and her sister) at the age of 14. 7 years on she's successful, own place, motivated, committed to everything she does. The other, lives with rich daddy and never worked or even gone to university. Her days are spent deciding on which Starbucks coffee to get.

 

Guess which one has the most friends and happier life, and which one feels everyone doesn't like her and is so alone!

[Untouchable_Fire]

She broke up with this guy four years ago so she had plenty of time to get over him but she ends up cheating on him with a convicted batterer and he is just dumbfounded. He is devasted because he truly loved her. I told him he needs to get her off and never provide a place for her to fall when she gets hurt again.

I see this time and time again where men get involved with women with a history of being mistreated and it blows up in their face. They treat these women better than any man has treated them and these women just go nuts and can't handle it. I really think that some are just a lost cause.

 

They all cheat here Wog. You can't run from it... you can't escape it. The number of guys I know under 35 who have never been cheated on I can count on my fingers.

 

It is a fact of life and we better just learn to accept it. Relationships are highly disposable... and when they end it's going to cost you lots of money.

[shadowofman]

What's a healthy relationship?

 

Don't think I've ever seen one.

[LittleTiger]

It works both ways Woggle.

 

There are plenty of women who aren't willing to do the work necessary to make themselves healthy and enable them to have healthy relationships - I can think think of more than one example on LS alone.

 

However, there are also plenty of men who are exactly the same and, I think I could name more male LS posters that I consider to be in this category than female.

 

I think it's a matter of perception.

 

Most of us are screwed up one way or another and anybody who seriously thinks they are completely healthy should probably take a closer look at themselves.

[Emilia]

I am convinced that people in general need some kind of struggle to overcome in order to grow up. It makes them better people plus they learn to appreciate when they have it good. I left home at 16 and it was sink or swim for me so I just can't relate to that attitudes of a lot of people today.

 

This. You hit the nail on the head. I'm Eastern European and old enough to have experienced some of the communist oppression plus I lived in the 3rd world for a couple of years so I haven't spent all my life safely cushioned like most Western Europeans do. I have lived in London on-off since 1993 but still sometimes look at people (especially women) who come out with the stupidest, most inane c**p because they can't provide for themselves.

 

There are a lot of idiotic spoilt adults around. I suppose in places like Africa they just die really young.

 

As for other comments: I agree with the no sympathy rule. I don't have time for negative idiots who haven't been able to work out why they are screwed up. If you are too dumb to develop at least some self awareness and better your life then stay at the bottom of society and get walked over. I'm sick of people constantly reaching out expecting help but not prepared to do any of the work themselves. Tough!

[Untouchable_Fire]

It works both ways Woggle.

There are plenty of women who aren't willing to do the work necessary to make themselves healthy and enable them to have healthy relationships - I can think think of more than one example on LS alone.

However, there are also plenty of men who are exactly the same and, I think I could name more male LS posters that I consider to be in this category than female.

I think it's a matter of perception.

Most of us are screwed up one way or another and anybody who seriously thinks they are completely healthy should probably take a closer look at themselves.

 

I don't doubt there are some really messed up guys, however it should be pointed out that the percentages are vastly different. Perhaps 10% of guys struggle to have a good and normal relationship. I would guess 30% or more of the female population is simply bonkers.

 

I believe that people tend to rise to the level society expects of them, like self fulfilling prophecies. Men are provided tons of pressures and goals to achieve. Some fail and wash out... but a good many more succeed. Women on the other hand are simply told they may do whatever they please without consequence or regard for others. They are shown Paris Hilton walking from jail, Britney Spears neglecting her kids... and on, and on, and on... All women who walk away without care or consequence. This translates directly into relationships... and since they are narcissistically chasing whatever whim hits their fancy... they become drama addicts. Creating turmoil when none is easy to find.

[smudge21]

I mainly date women in the 25 - 30 age range so I will report in what I am seeing in the field...

 

A lot of women in the 16 - 25 age range seem to go into this "I only date Bad Boys that treat me like crap and although you might even see my cry over it... Don't worry, after this a-hole screws me over for the fifth or six time, I will simply replace him with a new and improved Bad Boy that will treat me even worse than the last one did." phase.

 

Problem is... Most women go into that "phase" thinking they will just live on the wild side for a little while and it will not have any lasting effects on them or their future relationships.

 

From my personal experience...

 

Only a select few... ever make it out of that "phase" unharmed without any real permanent damage being done.

 

For most women, that "phase" royally screws them up... permanently for life! (a.k.a. "Damaged Goods")

 

These women created their own problem because they continued to date "bad boy" after "bad boy" until that had irreparable harm done to them.

 

You want to know what I don't understand....

 

Even though I have always been a "good guy"... For some reason, they seem to think that I should want too / have too pay for crimes that I didn't commit and on top of all that... These women are nasty, angry and bitter.

 

No Thanks, I will pass!

 

Go back to the "bad boys" that we warned you about and let them deal with you... Oh wait, they never really cared about you in the first place and they certainty don't have any more use for you now.

 

Yeah... I don't get it either.

 

Good to quote this as it's perfectly put. A friends daughter is just hitting this bad guy phase, dating losers who have even committed crimes in their late teens and carry knives. She can't see the dangers and even acts shocked when he continues to treat her like dirt. It's sad to see as she's a nice girl, from a good background. But the more she gets people talking to her, the more she rebels and refuses to listen.

 

You see similar everyday though - men and women going off with people who are involved with someone else, and then acting suprised when they cheat on them too. It's the bad boys/girls thing but it continues well into adult life.

 

I do think there is an attraction for us all in the bad person though. Whether it's a challenge, or we like the danger, or we think we can change them. We've all fallen for it at some time.

[Desensitized]

Oh God... I was involved with a woman who, in her past, had her extensive share of unhealthy relationships - I even got engaged to her, it was a dysfunctional mess! It all starts out great, but then, it's like they NEED drama. Eventually, as months passed, the nice, loving, supportive boyfriend I was was no longer there - I was on the verge of going crazy because of her. And since I've seen a trend from the previous comments read, yes, these women do end up becoming "damaged goods." My ex slept with 40+ people, and she's relatively very young. But hey, it's her life, i'm sure she can find a manslut for her too, right? I don't believe in "mental disorders", the mind cannot be ill. Unless, there's something physically wrong with their brain.

[Dusk1983]

Here we go again. The LS Men Loser Crew © gathering to moan, bitch and generalise about the entire female gender exactly in the same way a 6 year old boy does about the girls at school. It really is that unsophisticated and dumb.

 

Call yourselves adults?

 

I'm a 28 year old guy and have had many wonderful girlfriends and, barring a few exceptions, have had nothing but valuable experiences with them. Not always perfect, sometimes painful, but always valuable.

 

But hey - maybe that says more about me and my attitude to women, though.

[Emilia]

Have no fear men... It isn't all bad news for us!

 

Life is full of choices right?

 

Good news, as we get older we generally get better looking and since women these days are okay with dating much older... We have more and more choices of women to choose from.

 

Bad news for women. As a women gets older they generally lose their looks and they are held more accountable and suffer the effects and consequences of their bad choices more so than men. Their choices in men are limited and determined by their age, the bad choices they made and their looks. As they get older, the available men they can choose from only gets worse for them.

 

For Example:

 

We can either date a girl in her 30's who partied, got screw over by all "bad boys" she dated throughout her twenties, who no longer has her looks because of her age and she was rode hard and put up wet, who may have been dumb enough to marry one of the said "bad boys", had a couple of kids with him, who was surprise when the "bad boy" they married cheated and left them for a new and improved younger women even though he cheated on her throughout the time they dated and because of all of crap she choose for herself is now instead very angry and bitter at the world and all men in general.

 

or

 

We can date a girl in her mid 20's who has little or no damage from her "bad boys" phase, someone who is actually happy, likes to have fun, isn't divorced with kids and wanting me to be an instant dad, still has her looks, isn't just focused on getting married or starting a family, etc.

 

Hummm.... I wonder which way most men will go?

 

In your dreams. Competition is high for those gorgeous girls and they won't go for flabby balding men in their 40s when they can have a successful fit guy who is 30 years old. They will want to settle down with someone close to their age they can have kids with.

 

If you think you can date 25 year-old models as you start getting old you are dreaming. Some women might enjoy the older guy but it's not usually the ones that have the pick of the litter, trust me

[denise_xo]

I am really starting to think so. A guy I work with was engaged to a woman who was in a horrible relationship for a few years. She broke up with this guy four years ago so she had plenty of time to get over him but she ends up cheating on him with a convicted batterer and he is just dumbfounded. He is devasted because he truly loved her. I told him he needs to get her off and never provide a place for her to fall when she gets hurt again.

 

I see this time and time again where men get involved with women with a history of being mistreated and it blows up in their face. They treat these women better than any man has treated them and these women just go nuts and can't handle it. I really think that some are just a lost cause.

 

Yes, some women are incapable of having healthy relationships, just like some men are incapable of having healthy relationships. Duh.

[Dusk1983]

In your dreams. Competition is high for those gorgeous girls and they won't go for flabby balding men in their 40s when they can have a successful fit guy who is 30 years old. They will want to settle down with someone close to their age they can have kids with.

 

If you think you can date 25 year-old models as you start getting old you are dreaming. Some women might enjoy the older guy but it's not usually the ones that have the pick of the litter, trust me

 

haha, brilliant

 

Some of these guys truly live in fantasy land - "we might be passed over for the hunks now, but one day - ONE DAY - the world will be ours!!!!"