Are some women simply incapable of having a healthy relationship?

[Woggle]

In your dreams. Competition is high for those gorgeous girls and they won't go for flabby balding men in their 40s when they can have a successful fit guy who is 30 years old. They will want to settle down with someone close to their age they can have kids with.

 

If you think you can date 25 year-old models as you start getting old you are dreaming. Some women might enjoy the older guy but it's not usually the ones that have the pick of the litter, trust me

 

I know some guys who are in their late 30s and early 40s who finally got over the nice guy thing and now they are having the time of their life with women.

[Mrlonelyone]

Yes there are some women (and men, straight, gay and bi) who just cannot handle being in a relationship with someone who acts like they genuinely like them. That's because those people don't really like themselves. You don't have to be "nice". However if you express a affection for them a little too much they just can't belive it. If you don't cheat on them, beat on them, lie to them, and act like a jack@$$ they think you are not being real.

 

Such people don't really like healthy relationships. They are histriotic PD or narcicistic PD people who just like drama and a supply of attention. I have seen it enough. I'm not as old as Carhill so that voice in me that says ....well maybe this one's different... still has some strength.

[JaneDoe35]

Sometimes we mess up - each and every one of us. Sometimes we get hurt too. I have treated some men 'badly' and been treated 'badly' by others. Many men and women are incapable of having healthy relationships....

[rafallus]

I am really starting to think so. A guy I work with was engaged to a woman who was in a horrible relationship for a few years. She broke up with this guy four years ago so she had plenty of time to get over him but she ends up cheating on him with a convicted batterer and he is just dumbfounded. He is devasted because he truly loved her. I told him he needs to get her off and never provide a place for her to fall when she gets hurt again.

 

I see this time and time again where men get involved with women with a history of being mistreated and it blows up in their face. They treat these women better than any man has treated them and these women just go nuts and can't handle it. I really think that some are just a lost cause.

 

Yes. And so are some men.

[udolipixie]

That's funny... I am 39 and my Ex who is 23 is a model.

 

Went on a date this weekend with a 25 year girl who has the looks to be a model.

 

I guess I am lucky that I have never been married, have no kids, have all my hair, taken care of my body and have a job that I love. Maybe if I had the "mom" haircut and wore "mom" jeans...

 

You can try and say what you want... But you see young ver good looking women with older men all the time! Is it more likely you see a beautiful women with an older ugly guy or a very good looking guy with an older ugly women?

 

There is hope for you though... Ashton and Demi. Problem is... How many women look like Demi at her age and is there any chance Ashton would date / marry her if she didn't have her looks?

 

Your post is exactly why in my opinion men have no reason to be bitter about dating.

[sweetjasmine]

I am convinced that people in general need some kind of struggle to overcome in order to grow up. It makes them better people plus they learn to appreciate when they have it good. I left home at 16 and it was sink or swim for me so I just can't relate to that attitudes of a lot of people today.

 

Healthy people don't need a terrible struggle to overcome in order to grow up, and for each person who "swims" in a situation like yours, there's at least one who sinks.

 

I don't doubt there are some really messed up guys, however it should be pointed out that the percentages are vastly different. Perhaps 10% of guys struggle to have a good and normal relationship. I would guess 30% or more of the female population is simply bonkers.

 

And where'd you get those figures? Your magic percent-o-meter?

 

You have those numbers in your mind because you don't date men. In my life, I've met more men than women with certifiable psych issues (bipolar, NPD [i know you won't believe me, but men can be narcissists, too!], BPD), so I guess it would be acceptable for me to come into this thread and talk about how 10% of women are bonkers but 40% of men are batsh-t insane, right?

[Cee]

The original premise is correct, IMO. Some women are incapable of having healthy relationships.

 

What I find more interesting is to talk about how people overcame their personal demons to have healthy relationships with their own self and others.

[oldguy]

Many times people get what they expect too. Not to get too psychological here but in many cases it's a learned behavior. A little girl grows up in a home where dad or other dominant male figure treats mom poorly or even the girl herself. She comes to not only have a tolerance for, but to expect this sort of treatment even though she often professes to despise it.

 

Men also learn this behavior. To often mistreat women and even when people cognitively reject a certain behavior they will resort to it under times of stress.

 

There is a huge reservoir of material on this subject from the perspective of the abused to the role of a parent or guardian & everything in between.

 

It's certanly not the sole cause but most believe the primary cause. Sometimes it's bundled up in something called; "the generational effect".

[Eve]

The original premise is correct, IMO. Some women are incapable of having healthy relationships.

 

What I find more interesting is to talk about how people overcame their personal demons to have healthy relationships with their own self and others.

 

 

Unhealthy relationships have always existed. There is nothing new under the sun. I reckon the pressures have changed and there is a tendancy nowadays for people to seek out drama. Also, I don't think people generally know how to love.

 

So, maybe what we are seeing is what really has always been there? Maybe it was all just a bit more covered up previously?

 

I would seriously estimate that only probably about 20% of people are capable of having a healthy relationship. The rest are probably open to somewhat of a trecherous learning curve... and many become over whelmed early on.

 

This is said because I was previously pretty messed up but I am not now. There are 'dimonds in the rough' out there. As there are pathological liars and the like out there too.

 

I say, exercise caution but don't give up on the human race.

 

Take care,

Eve x

Edited July 6, 2011 by Eve

[BetheButterfly]

I am really starting to think so. A guy I work with was engaged to a woman who was in a horrible relationship for a few years. She broke up with this guy four years ago so she had plenty of time to get over him but she ends up cheating on him with a convicted batterer and he is just dumbfounded. He is devasted because he truly loved her. I told him he needs to get her off and never provide a place for her to fall when she gets hurt again.

 

I see this time and time again where men get involved with women with a history of being mistreated and it blows up in their face. They treat these women better than any man has treated them and these women just go nuts and can't handle it. I really think that some are just a lost cause.

 

Most women are very emotional beings. When they are get hurt, it doesn't just hurt for a little bit and then poof disappears. Rather, it leaves emotional scars. Emotional scars can be uglier than physical scars, and can severely impede healthy relationships. It takes a LOT of work and a LOT of love and care and patience and time for women to heal. I assume men are the same way?

 

About this woman who cheated, she had an emotional connection (though an unhealthy one) with the ex, and it was not 100% severed and healed yet. She needs outside help. Many women try to heal on their own, but people are not naturally loners. People need other people's help.

 

The best way for your friend to see this is that she is emotionally broken. She needs help. She is not ready for a relationship with anyone right now, and the best thing he can do for her is to tell her that and to offer to support her in getting counseling, if she comes back. You're right though in that at least right now, he should not be romantically involved with her.

 

That's one of the biggest problems with all the dating around that is happening in our culture today... that it emotionally scars people, especially when the person he/she dated treats them horribly. When hurt people get involved romantically, they tend to hurt other people. And the cycle continues...

 

People don't seem to understand the sheer importance of the soul in regards to relationships. People are not just a body (including the brain)... they are emotional and spiritual beings too.

Edited July 6, 2011 by BetheButterfly

[Untouchable_Fire]

This is said because I was previously pretty messed up but I am not now. There are 'dimonds in the rough' out there. As there are pathological liars and the like out there too.

 

What kind of messed up?

 

How did you change?

[misssmartypants]

To answer the original question - I think there are members of both genders incapable of healthy relationships.

 

Its kinda disheartening to see the way you guys talk about women though. Either they are spoiled, entitled brats who expect others to do for them and never do for themselves.

 

OR they are damaged goods as a result of having had a bad childhood or been in bad relationships.

 

I DO have limited sympathy for people who constantly revisit unhealthy situations. I know a couple who live together, things go well, the she cheats on him, he kicks her out, she stays with relatives for a while, then he takes her back. Cheating isn't right, but how many times does she have to do it before it stops being a surprise? And if he doesn't do "it" for her, why stay? And yeah, she works and makes as much or more than he does, so it isn't money keeping her there.

 

On the other hand, I know (and am in this group) people who've gone through hell and back twice or three times due to situations they faced as kids and young adults who are more interesting and more centered than anyone who has a "perfect" childhood.

 

Just reading all the guy perspectives, it seems like a woman can't win. I like men. I like being in a relationship. I won't stay in one that isn't working for me, and I honestly don't understand people of either gender who do.

[carhill]

i don't even empathize anymore, after being taken for a ride by my share of such women i blame them for their dysfunctional relationships.

 

Is that more like Kingda Ka or Son of Beast?

 

By a 'safe' distance I mean more like what I express here on LS, where I don't know the person, don't interact with them in real life nor have any investment in their outcome. I occasionally venture into IRL empathy with people at about the rate I received similar during my recent difficult period; rarely.

 

A canary I look for when analyzing is the health of the person's friendships as well as their perspective regarding their family. No family is perfect but it's how the person *perceives* the dynamic which indicates their perspective in general about relationships.

 

By this methodology, my exW would be capable, if compatible and with sufficient motivation, regardless of her past M's or abusive childhood. She simply lacked that compatibility and motivation with myself and deluded herself into thinking she had it, IMO, based on the results of the MC process.

 

Is past behavior always indicative of future behavior? Is past unhealthiness a determiner of future unhealthiness? Perhaps not, but the future generally does not favor those who ignore the past. It is one meaningful aspect of the present, IMO.

[Woggle]

To answer the original question - I think there are members of both genders incapable of healthy relationships.

 

Its kinda disheartening to see the way you guys talk about women though. Either they are spoiled, entitled brats who expect others to do for them and never do for themselves.

 

OR they are damaged goods as a result of having had a bad childhood or been in bad relationships.

 

I DO have limited sympathy for people who constantly revisit unhealthy situations. I know a couple who live together, things go well, the she cheats on him, he kicks her out, she stays with relatives for a while, then he takes her back. Cheating isn't right, but how many times does she have to do it before it stops being a surprise? And if he doesn't do "it" for her, why stay? And yeah, she works and makes as much or more than he does, so it isn't money keeping her there.

 

On the other hand, I know (and am in this group) people who've gone through hell and back twice or three times due to situations they faced as kids and young adults who are more interesting and more centered than anyone who has a "perfect" childhood.

 

Just reading all the guy perspectives, it seems like a woman can't win. I like men. I like being in a relationship. I won't stay in one that isn't working for me, and I honestly don't understand people of either gender who do.

 

It's not that women can't win but for men these days it seems that making a woman happy is like rocket science and you think you have it figured out they change the rules. It's enough to make you want to pull your hair out. The posts on this board are just men venting about this situation.

[Eve]

What kind of messed up?

 

How did you change?

 

Now THAT is a long story and I wouldn't want to bore you, lol. Mainly a case of severe family dysfunction growing up. I was eventually removed from my birth family and this caused probably even more problems. Basically I was alone in the world from an early age. Those days are beyond awful to recollect.

 

All in all, I have never been one to be horrid to people but for a time I took on the worries of the other person far too much. On reflection this made me a big luxury sized doormat, with frills on the end. Never put up with much as I have always been the dumper.. but really I should have avoided the Dad of my children like the plague. ****ing idiot that he is.

 

All very unpleasant.

 

Underneath it all, I was always a person with a lot of love to give but found it difficult to trust men until meeting my husband. He had to really really pursue me.

 

I overcame my issues through at the age of 25 deciding to take full responsibility for my often quite fragile emotional state. Was not easy to do and I needed to ask for help (which was probably the hardest thing to do, like ever) as there was a trail of stuff to heal.. but I made it..

 

So, I had a lot of emotional baggage that I hid.. but not very well. My healing was mostly a spiritual thing..

 

I found that some men wanted to try and take advantage of me because I had not had any real stability. This I still find to this day to be something very shocking. I suppose this is why I do often feel sorry for messed up people because I was one but I understand that for some being messed up is almost like an aim and basically they do bring problems to their own door.. repeatedly and never recover/miss the boat.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[thatone]

In your dreams. Competition is high for those gorgeous girls and they won't go for flabby balding men in their 40s when they can have a successful fit guy who is 30 years old. They will want to settle down with someone close to their age they can have kids with.

 

If you think you can date 25 year-old models as you start getting old you are dreaming. Some women might enjoy the older guy but it's not usually the ones that have the pick of the litter, trust me

 

bitter woman complaining about her ex screwing his 19 year old student

 

23 year old playing the victim after 3 year FWB arrangement with 36 year old boss

 

teenagers flirting with 40 year old man at a theater

 

those are just the first three examples in current threads on this forum from the past couple of days.

 

who's delusional?

 

hate to break it to you honey, but you're not going to find many fit, successful 30 year old men looking for a 30 year old woman. you'll find him screwing college aged waitresses.

Edited July 6, 2011 by thatone

[udolipixie]

bitter woman complaining about her ex screwing his 19 year old student

 

23 year old playing the victim after 3 year FWB arrangement with 36 year old boss

 

teenagers flirting with 40 year old man at a theater

 

those are just the first three examples in current threads on this forum from the past couple of days.

 

who's delusional?

 

hate to break it to you honey, but you're not going to find many fit, successful 30 year old men looking for a 30 year old woman. you'll find him screwing college aged waitresses.

 

Exactly most older men prefer to date women 10-20 years younger & most worthwhile men are successfuly dating women 10-20 years younger.

 

Which is why in my opinion men have no reason to be bitter about dating.

[Eve]

Many times people get what they expect too. Not to get too psychological here but in many cases it's a learned behavior. A little girl grows up in a home where dad or other dominant male figure treats mom poorly or even the girl herself. She comes to not only have a tolerance for, but to expect this sort of treatment even though she often professes to despise it.

 

Men also learn this behavior. To often mistreat women and even when people cognitively reject a certain behavior they will resort to it under times of stress.

 

There is a huge reservoir of material on this subject from the perspective of the abused to the role of a parent or guardian & everything in between.

 

It's certanly not the sole cause but most believe the primary cause. Sometimes it's bundled up in something called; "the generational effect".

 

 

Yes. I would agree.

 

The main predictor I look for is how a person can function despite challenges previously experienced.

 

In the end, I decided that even if I had been born into a different family I would still have had challenges.. so, thought I may as well get on with it. The generational thing has now died in my family line because of my action all those years ago when I decided to take control. If I didn't, I dread to think what would have happened to my daughter when she went through her naughty phase. :laugh

 

So, watch who you get intimate with and especially who you choose to reproduce with, I say. For many, it is better they stay on their own until they have healed. For others, a good relationship is the balm needed.

 

So, I am cautious but I will always look out for the 'diamond in the rough' and will do my all to support them within their transition/s.

 

Being able to identify them is key and I don't think that they should be lumped in with those who are really (at the core) committed to making others feel as crappy as they themselves feel.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[iris219]

 

hate to break it to you honey, but you're not going to find many fit, successful 30 year old men looking for a 30 year old woman. you'll find him screwing college aged waitresses.

 

Weren't you just making the point that men look for more than looks when it comes to relationships? You brought up your married friends whose wives weren't much to look at. You seem to be contradicting that point.

 

I have a lot of difficulties when it comes to dating. Men in their 30's sleeping with college girls instead of dating me is not one I've encountered. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I think 30 year old relationship minded men aren't just looking for young girls. They're looking for compatible women.

[thatone]

Exactly most older men prefer to date women 10-20 years younger & most worthwhile men are successfuly dating women 10-20 years younger.

 

Which is why in my opinion men have no reason to be bitter about dating.

 

see, that's what you're missing, the reason for that situation.

 

a lot of those men would have been perfectly willing to have long term relationships or marriages with those women 5 or 10 years ago. but those women wouldn't give those men the time of day when those men were working and going to school at the same time, they wanted to screw around with the guys at the bar or the gym or the beach.

 

so now that those men go back and get what they missed when they were working their way through grad school. they're not going to settle, there's always a fresh new crop of 23 year olds.

 

so as you can see, my point stands. the roles do not change, the roles will never change. as long as men pursue men will pursue who they want. and a 30 year old woman who spent her 20s screwing every bartender in town is not what the "fit successful 30 year old man" in her words, wants.

[udolipixie]

Weren't you just making the point that men look for more than looks when it comes to relationships? You brought up your married friends whose wives weren't much to look at. You seem to be contradicting that point.

 

I have a lot of difficulties when it comes to dating. Men in their 30's sleeping with college girls instead of dating me is not one I've encountered. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I think 30 year old relationship minded men aren't just looking for young girls. They're looking for compatible women.

 

 

 

You got that inconsistently as well.

[Untouchable_Fire]

who's delusional?

 

hate to break it to you honey, but you're not going to find many fit, successful 30 year old men looking for a 30 year old woman. you'll find him screwing college aged waitresses.

 

I'm 31, very successful. My GF is 25.

 

I'm shocked at how many women my age... who have aged well and should be very attractive instead just totally give up.

 

A big trend with the married mothers in my neighborhood is to get a haircut like a bull dyke and wear sweatpants everywhere. The one that always does her makeup is cheating on her husband with a guy at the end of the block.

[udolipixie]

see, that's what you're missing, the reason for that situation.

 

a lot of those men would have been perfectly willing to have long term relationships or marriages with those women 5 or 10 years ago. but those women wouldn't give those men the time of day when those men were working and going to school at the same time, they wanted to screw around with the guys at the bar or the gym or the beach.

 

so now that those men go back and get what they missed when they were working their way through grad school. they're not going to settle, there's always a fresh new crop of 23 year olds.

 

so as you can see, my point stands. the roles do not change, the roles will never change. as long as men pursue men will pursue who they want. and a 30 year old woman who spent her 20s screwing every bartender in town is not what the "fit successful 30 year old man" in her words, wants.

 

The reason doesn't really matter.

 

In fact whether a guy did or didn't get the time of day fact of the matter is he still has the option to date younger & much younger when he is older.

 

So to me there's no reason for men to be bitter about dating.

 

With older guys preferring to date 10-20 years younger how will he even know whether that woman his age spent her 20s screwing around when she's not his dating preference?

 

I can see the men being happy to have long term relationships but I doubt many men in their 20s would have been ready to marry in their 20s.

 

Even if the woman did date him or have a relationship with him there's no guarantee it would have been a long0term one or that they would have married.

 

What roles?

 

I haven't mentioned roles changing.

[thatone]

Weren't you just making the point that men look for more than looks when it comes to relationships? You brought up your married friends whose wives weren't much to look at. You seem to be contradicting that point.

 

I have a lot of difficulties when it comes to dating. Men in their 30's sleeping with college girls instead of dating me is not one I've encountered. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I think 30 year old relationship minded men aren't just looking for young girls. They're looking for compatible women.

 

you're missing a glaring point in that discussion too. those people i was referring to in that post have all been married since they were in college or shortly out of college. now that they're in their mid 30s their marriages are generally in the 8-10 year age. they for the most part will never be dating in their 30s, because they're happily married and have been so since their mid 20s.

 

we're talking about people who chose to remain single through their 20s here. for those people, the situation is entirely different.

 

I'm 31, very successful. My GF is 25.

 

I'm shocked at how many women my age... who have aged well and should be very attractive instead just totally give up.

 

A big trend with the married mothers in my neighborhood is to get a haircut like a bull dyke and wear sweatpants everywhere. The one that always does her makeup is cheating on her husband with a guy at the end of the block.

 

which is also ALWAYS the case, lol.

Edited July 6, 2011 by thatone

[udolipixie]

you're missing a glaring point in that discussion too. those people i was referring to in that post have all been married since they were in college or shortly out of college. now that they're in their mid 30s their marriages are generally in the 8-10 year age. they for the most part will never be dating in their 30s, because they're happily married and have been so since their mid 20s.

 

we're talking about people who chose to remain single through their 20s here. for those people, the situation is entirely different.

 

So you're not saying that men look for more than looks when it comes to relationships.

 

You're saying when that men don't care if their wive doesn't look as she did when young or is as attractive as younger women when they have dated their partner for some time & got married to them in/shortly after college.

 

And that single men don't look for more than looks when it comes to relationships?