Are some women simply incapable of having a healthy relationship?

[udolipixie]

 

I had a friend who was "using me", and I wanted more.

 

Needless to say, she's no longer my friend. What you describe are a cesspool of bitches. They don't deserve to have friends, because they don't value friendship with these guys, and they don't value them as people, since they won't set them up with their friends.

 

It's women like that that I think George Sodini should have been aiming at. Not innocent civilians.

 

 

So you understand my dislike of men/women using those they consider damaged goods for their own amusement?

 

My girl friends weren't friends with these guys they used them for amusement like feelgoodman was suggesting.

 

No offense but friends don't have to set you up.

 

When you're lacking in the love they console you & help you improve yourself.

 

If there is someone they know who may like you or already like you then they set you up.

 

Perhaps she didn't set you up because there was no one that wanted you?

[udolipixie]

Why are the posts quoting the wrong people?

[carhill]

Women who thrive on abuse are f*cked up in the head, pure and simple. It's a form of emotional masochism. It's what turns them on.

Although I've mentioned it in other contexts, this clip explains the essence of the dynamic IMO. I often felt like the guy in the closet.

 

With such women, I could literally see a switch flip in their brain when, like in the clip, the abuser approaches them. It's like they're hypnotized. Note how Isabella had her knife on the guy, acting out the abuser role, threatening to kill him if he made a noise, then flipped into the masochist for Dennis' psychopath. That's pretty accurate, IME.

[Trimmer]

guys who cant get girls are losers. they are faws.

Yeah, faws are the worst. I hate faws. Down with faws.

[udolipixie]

Although I've mentioned it in other contexts, this clip explains the essence of the dynamic IMO. I often felt like the guy in the closet.

 

With such women, I could literally see a switch flip in their brain when, like in the clip, the abuser approaches them. It's like they're hypnotized. Note how Isabella had her knife on the guy, acting out the abuser role, threatening to kill him if he made a noise, then flipped into the masochist for Dennis' psychopath. That's pretty accurate, IME.

 

 

However what he's talking about is his assumption that all damaged goods are emotional masochists and that it validates him using them for his amusement and pump/dump.

 

Rather than him just leaving those types alone.

[carhill]

I wasn't commenting on his perspective, as I don't 'use' women for anything and have no opinion on that nuance, rather my experiences with broken women who appear to be beholden to abusive and unhealthy relationships and how their psychologies often appear to align with 'emotional masochism'.

 

In the film, as in my real life experiences, the broken woman wishes/attempts/manipulates 'Jeffrey' (the guy in the closet) to 'abuse' her like Frank did. I've seen this first hand, where the women will literally 'poison' the relationship/friendship trying to align it with their idea of what love and intimacy should be.

 

Indeed, IMO, the winning move is not to play. Other men have their own perspective. YMMV>

[udolipixie]

I wasn't commenting on his perspective, as I don't 'use' women for anything and have no opinion on that nuance, rather my experiences with broken women who appear to be beholden to abusive and unhealthy relationships and how their psychologies often appear to align with 'emotional masochism'.

 

In the film, as in my real life experiences, the broken woman wishes/attempts/manipulates 'Jeffrey' (the guy in the closet) to 'abuse' her like Frank did. I've seen this first hand, where the women will literally 'poison' the relationship/friendship trying to align it with their idea of what love and intimacy should be.

 

Indeed, IMO, the winning move is not to play. Other men have their own perspective. YMMV>

 

Yeah I should do like you & ignore the perspectives I just don't share when the people seem unwilling to at least see others or faults in their own.

 

I just get caught up in those who perpetuate using others but are upset when others they feel comradery with are used.

 

Bad habit I know.

[Disillusioned]

I like to think that the majority of people are capable of healing if they work on themselves and get help and learn from their mistakes. Incapable is just a strong word.

 

I have met a lot of people who seriously need that help, though, and seem like they will never seek/accept it, and/or who have real difficulty with the levels of introspection and vulnerability required to learn from their mistakes.

 

My late grandmother and my best friend's ex-wife are perfect examples of women who could only understand a relationship as something between a master and her servant, so I'd have to agree with the OP that the short answer is yes.

 

And no, incapable is not too strong a word. Some people are incapable of learning how to spell correctly or how to drive a car safely, so of course there are plenty of people who are incapable of empathy.

 

Unfortunately, it seems like every year, there are more people who lack empathy than the year before.

[Woggle]

I don't condone using but I think some men who have constantly dealt with this type of woman eventually take on the mentality that they would rather be the player than be played. I don't agree with it but I very much sympathize with how they got there.

[D-Lish]

Wow, yet again turning a problem present in both genders into a problem with women.

 

Of course some women are incapable of having a healthy relationship- as are some men.

 

It's not a gender specific problem.

[udolipixie]

I don't condone using but I think some men who have constantly dealt with this type of woman eventually take on the mentality that they would rather be the player than be played. I don't agree with it but I very much sympathize with how they got there.

 

 

Which one of the following do you sympathize with or is it all?

 

Do you sympathize with men who actively seek & use women they consider damaged goods?

 

Do you sympathize with men who when they encounter a woman they consider damaged they decide to use her instead of leave her?

 

Do you sympathize with men who have dealt with damaged women so they adopt the be the player not get played so now whenever they encounter damaged women instead of leaving they use them?

^ If so do you sympathize with women who have dealt with damaged

men so they adopt be the player not get played?

 

If you don't sympathize with the women who adopt the mentality is it

because you think this:

 

women deals with bad guy she has bad taste

man deals with bad women it's because there's few good women

[Woggle]

Wow, yet again turning a problem present in both genders into a problem with women.

 

Of course some women are incapable of having a healthy relationship- as are some men.

 

It's not a gender specific problem.

 

I am aware that this happens with both genders but I honestly don't see many men just ruining a relationship with a genuinely good woman who treats him better than he has even been treated. I am very much generalizing but when men have something good we tend to know that it's special.

 

What happened with my coworker is very common these days.

[Woggle]

Which one of the following do you sympathize with or is it all?

 

Do you sympathize with men who actively seek & use women they consider damaged goods?

 

Do you sympathize with men who when they encounter a woman they consider damaged they decide to use her instead of leave her?

 

Do you sympathize with men who have dealt with damaged women so they adopt the be the player not get played so now whenever they encounter damaged women instead of leaving they use them?

^ If so do you sympathize with women who have dealt with damaged

men so they adopt be the player not get played?

 

If you don't sympathize with the women who adopt the mentality is it

because you think this:

 

women deals with bad guy she has bad taste

man deals with bad women it's because there's few good women

 

I never said I condone it at all but I understand the cause. If you want a comparison I don't condone people who make money illegally but I very much sympathize with people that do especially in this economy. I know people that deal drugs and they say that it beats working themselves to the bone for pennies.

 

We live in a dog eat dog society and I can't get mad at somebody for wanting to eat instead of being eaten. We need to change society around instead of getting mad at people who finally give in instead of fighting it.

[udolipixie]

I am aware that this happens with both genders but I honestly don't see many men just ruining a relationship with a genuinely good woman who treats him better than he has even been treated. I am very much generalizing but when men have something good we tend to know that it's special.

 

What happened with my coworker is very common these days.

 

I do see men do that.

 

In fact man guys promote getting an ugly wife because they can treat her badly & cheat on her with more attractive women.

 

The being ugly doesn't correlate to low self esteem but the belief that ugly appearance = genuinely good person.

[Woggle]

I do see men do that.

 

In fact man guys promote getting an ugly wife because they can treat her badly & cheat on her with more attractive women.

 

The being ugly doesn't correlate to low self esteem but the belief that ugly appearance = genuinely good person.

 

I don't hear that but I do hear from people that an unattractive spouse will be more loyal. There are women on here as well who feel that a man should love a woman more than she loves him.

 

When you have a society that looks at dating and relationships as a power game where there is somebody at the bottom and somebody at the top don't be surprised when you have people don't want to be on the bottom.

 

The solution to this is to start treating relationships as equal partnerships where people work together instead of being at odds. Until we look at relationships like this people will not want to be on the bottom.

[quankanne]

I am aware that this happens with both genders but I honestly don't see many men just ruining a relationship with a genuinely good woman who treats him better than he has even been treated. I am very much generalizing but when men have something good we tend to know that it's special.

 

I think you're maybe only identifying with these guys more readily because of your own experience. The fact of the matter is, there are lots of screwed up people out there who are incapable of being in a healthy relationship for whatever reasons. People as in men AND women. Emotional scarring isn't limited to just one chromosomal subset ....

 

as for the original question, yes, I do believe there are women who are incapable of EVER having a healthy relationship because they've convinced themselves that they're unlovable and feel "loved" only when they merit negative attention (abuse). It scares me because I've got a young female relative in an abusive marriage who was raised to know better, but she clings to this man because he fulfills some kind of void in her psyche. I get the feeling that if some decent, loving man were to enter into a relationship with her in which he showed healthy expressions of love, she'd sabotage it because she just wouldn't believe that it was "right" for him to be good to her in any way; she'd be brainwashed into believing that abuse is the only form of "love" allowed in her relationships.

 

sickening, isn't it?

[udolipixie]

I never said I condone it at all but I understand the cause. If you want a comparison I don't condone people who make money illegally but I very much sympathize with people that do especially in this economy. I know people that deal drugs and they say that it beats working themselves to the bone for pennies.

 

We live in a dog eat dog society and I can't get mad at somebody for wanting to eat instead of being eaten. We need to change society around instead of getting mad at people who finally give in instead of fighting it.

 

In your examples the people were doing something to gain something.

 

In the scenario to use damaged women there is no fighting & nothing gained but amusement.

 

 

So you since sympathize with all the cases of men using damaged women that means you sympathize with women who use men they consider damaged goods?

 

Do you sympathize with women who cheat on men because they don't want to be cheated on?

 

Fighting what?

 

In this scenario use for amusement what is being fought??

 

His solution is to use them.

 

There is no fighting there.

 

 

man actively seeks and pursue damaged women to use them

What fighting is there?

 

 

man encounters a woman who is damaged & decides to use her instead of leave her.

What fighting is there?

 

 

man has dealt with damaged women so he adopts the be the player not get played so now whenever he encounters damaged women instead of leaving he uses them.

What fighting is there?

 

 

Sorry but I can't sympathsize with anyone who actively seeks out/pursue damaged people to use instead of just not bothering them.

 

Nor can I sympathsize with anyone who when encountering a damaged person.

[udolipixie]

I never said I condone it at all but I understand the cause. If you want a comparison I don't condone people who make money illegally but I very much sympathize with people that do especially in this economy. I know people that deal drugs and they say that it beats working themselves to the bone for pennies.

 

We live in a dog eat dog society and I can't get mad at somebody for wanting to eat instead of being eaten. We need to change society around instead of getting mad at people who finally give in instead of fighting it.

 

I never said you condoned it either.

 

In fact I was just asking which cases you sympathized with or was it all.

[Feelsgoodman]

Bitterness is not indicative of a personality flaw?

 

Neither are extreme resentment of the opposite gender or anger?

 

Funny how it's excused as lack of experience with women or being shy, awkward, young, naive.

 

These guys maybe young but they're not naive.

 

They're bitter, angry, resentful, sometimes hateful, and feel entitled to sex/gf because they are "nice".

This thread is not about bitter so-called "nice guys". Go start another thread if you want to rant about them. On second thought, don't...there's about a hundred of those threads already.

[D-Lish]

I am aware that this happens with both genders but I honestly don't see many men just ruining a relationship with a genuinely good woman who treats him better than he has even been treated. I am very much generalizing but when men have something good we tend to know that it's special.

 

What happened with my coworker is very common these days.

 

I disagree. There are many commitment phobic men out there. I know a lot of good women that have had a man like this break them.

 

My room mate changes gf's as often as he changes his underwear. Oddly enough, it's the "good ones" he dumps sooner. I don't know why- but he seems to keep the bitchy ones around longer.

[udolipixie]

This thread is not about bitter so-called "nice guys". Go start another thread if you want to rant about them. On second thought, don't...there's about a hundred of those threads already.

 

It's not.

 

In case you forgot I told you that your belief to use women that are damaged goods for amusement is like my friends belief of using damaged men.

 

You then responded with that these types of guys weren't damaged guys but more like young naive boys because they didn't have personality flaws.

 

I just showed that they did have personality flaws so they were damaged goods.

 

This isn't a nice guy thread nor was I trying to make it so.

 

It was about showing you that they did have personality flaws so they weren't young naive boys like you assumed.

[carhill]

sickening, isn't it?

 

To me, disheartening. I loathe seeing human suffering and, IME, this suffering is nearly always rooted in family origins. We men, at some level, by our actions or inactions, have play in the dynamic. We can make healthier choices, both as partners and as fathers to our daughters.

 

To respond to D-lish's assertion upthread, absolutely there are men who are incapable of healthy relationships and I've seen plenty of them. We can certainly discuss the why's in an appropriate thread. The character 'Jack' in the film clip I linked, played by the late Dennis Hopper, certainly personified one. No one really knows what goes on behind the closed doors of others. Some of the stories I've heard from women, if even 1% true, boggle my mind. Scary, actually. My exW had me almost to the point of apologizing for having a loving childhood. Wow...

[Woggle]

I disagree. There are many commitment phobic men out there. I know a lot of good women that have had a man like this break them.

 

My room mate changes gf's as often as he changes his underwear. Oddly enough, it's the "good ones" he dumps sooner. I don't know why- but he seems to keep the bitchy ones around longer.

 

Maybe it's because I am looking at it from a man's perspective but I don't see too many men purposely rejecting women that treat them well. I am sure if I were a woman it would look different though.

[D-Lish]

Maybe it's because I am looking at it from a man's perspective but I don't see too many men purposely rejecting women that treat them well. I am sure if I were a woman it would look different though.

 

It is a perspective thing, trust me. Not just a gender perspective- but your personal perspective. I mean, you've been through hell and back with your ex- AND your mother hasn't been the best role model for you. This has obviously caused a lot of damage. Despite this- you've gone on to marry a good woman and have learned to appreciate her. Of course you still have baggage that you need to work through- but given your past, it's no wonder why. You've made great progress though. Your posts used to be much more hateful.

 

My room mate had this beautiful, nice, smart, independent gf for a while. His feelings for her scared the crap out of him and he bailed on her. He started dating this wretchid girl immediately after- but he still talks about the ex to me all the time.

 

Some people have baggage that damage them permanently- there are men out there that will never be able to commit to a woman- ever.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Wow, yet again turning a problem present in both genders into a problem with women.

 

Of course some women are incapable of having a healthy relationship- as are some men.

 

It's not a gender specific problem.

 

This is the absolute answer to the question.