Are some women simply incapable of having a healthy relationship?

[udolipixie]

This guy nails it!

 

What I want has never changed!

 

In the circles I run in... Most of the women I met are late twenties to early thirties... These are the same women that passed on me and many other "good guys" throughout their twenties and choose to go screw every "bad boy" bartender in town instead.

 

Now that the music has stopped (their clock is ticking, looks are fading due to their age, partying, being rode hard and put up wet, the crap that the "bad boys" put them through, etc.)... they are now looking for a chair to sit in.

 

These same women who screwed over the "Good Guys" for a better part of a decade are expecting these men to give up on what they always wanted and settle for them instead...

 

I sorry but a women that is "Damaged Goods", on the downside of her looks and has enough luggage to fill cargo plane to carry. (Luggage - Divorce, "Bad Boy" Ex-husband, kids, alcohol / drug problems, money problems, etc.) isn't what I want.

 

It's not like they weren't warned... How many of fellow "Good Guys" out there had these women come cry on your shoulder about their latest "Bad Guy" cheating on them for the third or forth time? What did these women do... Go back for more or find an even worse "Bad Boy" and do it all over again.

 

Sucks for them because I am not changing what I want... For them!

 

 

Exactly my point why should the guys be upset over being passed over when what they will want when older are younger women.

 

If what you always wanted was young & attractive your age and young & attractive when you're older then the women who passed guys up when young don't matter because the guy wouldn't have stayed with them when the women got older.

Whether a guy did or didn't passed up on doesn't matter when he is older he still has the option to date younger & much younger.

 

Whether he got passed up or not he like most men will prefer to date younger.

 

Even if the woman did date him or have a relationship with him instead of passing him up there's no guarantee it would have been a long-term one or that they would have married.

 

I can see the men being happy to have long term relationships but I doubt many men in their 20s would have been ready to marry in their 20s.

 

So what did good guys get passed up on- hookups, casual relationships?

 

Things that would have lasted a night, sometimes weeks, and maybe a few months?

 

At best good guys got passed up on long term relationships.

 

The end result would still be the same- he would get older & date younger.

 

The only difference would be that he wasn't passed up on and got some relationship experience.

 

It's amusing how guys assume dating good guys make any difference.

 

The only difference is a healthier relationship.

 

Dating good guys doesn't mean you won't end up single when older.

 

Plus with older guys preferring to date 10-20 years younger most won't bother to find out whether or not that woman his age spent her 20s screwing around since she's not his dating preference.

[udolipixie]

For me...

 

I want a women that is not "damaged goods" and does not have enough luggage to fill up a cargo plane.

 

It just so happens, most of these women are younger. They haven't had enough time to screw themselves and their future up yet.

 

 

Which is exactly my point.

 

The good guy being passed up argument is useless.

 

 

 

#1 Dating good guys doesn't mean you won't end up single when older.

 

Even a woman who dated good guys or had relationships with them have no guarantee it would have been a long-term one or that they would have married.

 

 

#2 Passed up or not most guys prefer younger women.

 

Whether he was passed up or not when he got older he'd still prefer younger & can still date younger.

 

The only difference would be those not passed up on have some relationship experience.

 

For your exact reason most won't bother to find out whether or not that woman his age has baggage since she's not his dating preference.

 

Just like most don't bother to see if that unattractive guy/girl is a match when they have a steady stream of attractive guys/girls.

[snug.bunny]

I am aware that this happens with both genders but I honestly don't see many men just ruining a relationship with a genuinely good woman who treats him better than he has even been treated.

 

Huh?

 

• Jesse James
  
• Arnold Schwarzenegger
  
• John Edwards
  
• Tiger Woods
  
• Kevin Costner
  
• Ethan Hawke
  
• Alex Rodriguez
  
• Dennis Quaid
  
• Mick Jagger
  
• David Duchovny
  
• Michael Jordan
  
• Bill Clinton
  
• Eddie Murphy
  
• Eric Bennet
  
• Kobe Bryant
  
• Richie Sambora
  
• Ryan Phillippe
  
• Criss Angel
  
• Frank Gifford
  
• Donald Trump
  
• Prince Charles
  
• Eric Benet
  
• Dean McDermott
  
• Danny Moder
  
• Jude Law
  
• Brad Pitt
  
• Chad Michael Murray
  
• Peter Cook
  
• Tiki Barber
  
• Mutt Lange
  
• David Duchovny
  
• John F. Kennedy
  
• Franklin Roosevelt
  
• James Cameron
  
• John McCain
  
• Prince Charles
  
• Rudy Giuliani
  
• Morgan Freeman
  
• Hugh Grant
  
• Charlie Sheen
  
• Sean Penn
  
• Tony Parker
  
• Woody Allen
  

[udolipixie]

Well, for guys like me...do you start dating normally in your 30's? Does the normal person get their first kiss at 31?

 

I didn't think so.

 

What is frustrating is how little women think of men who are inexperienced, while they seem to think the world of scummy guys. I know it's not a universal issue, but I just haven't come across a girl who's single and doesn't have the choice to date someone who's a good person.

 

This was about women incapable of healthy relationships.

 

In your case they aren't incapable of healthy relationships.

 

They just don't want a good person. They want a good person they're attracted to & enjoy being with.

 

 

 

Well, for guys like me...do you start dating normally in your 30's? Does the normal person get their first kiss at 31?

 

I didn't think so.

What is frustrating is how little women think of men who are inexperienced, while they seem to think the world of scummy guys. I know it's not a universal issue, but I just haven't come across a girl who's single and doesn't have the choice to date someone who's a good person.

 

This is more of what he was talking about.

 

Though in my circle the women think very little about both types of men.

[carhill]

And those are just the celebrities and politicians

[udolipixie]

^ Long list of cheaters there.

 

That being said, women cheat just as much. It just isn't reported as much.

 

Yeah stat readers say the 60% men cheat/40% women cheat should be 70% men cheat/60% women cheat based on previous stats of the percentage of men and women who lie on research surveys and studies.

[udolipixie]

I agree with this... but at least you will not be screwed up in the head. Which means "Good Guys" would still love the opportunity to want to date / marry them.

I am telling you... The whole "bad boy" phase does a number on women.

 

With older guys preferring to date 10-20 years younger most won't bother to find out whether or not that woman his age spent her 20s screwing around since she's not his dating preference.

 

The most likely chance a woman has of dating a guy her own age is through friends, work, social events since men will be pursuing the women 10 - 20 years younger.

 

 

 

I could see why you would say this. Most couples (married or dating) I know... The man is usually 1 - 3 years older.

 

Yeah the average age of couples is the man is 5 years older.

 

 

 

I have dated many women that were my own age with no problems. I do not prefer or strictly go after women that are a lot younger than me.

 

Sure... There are men that will only go after younger women only. I suppose it's similar to the women that will only go after men that make X amount of money.

 

The key word being a lot younger.

 

Rare find to see a guy who doesn't prefer a certain age group & pursues all equally.

 

But it's often the guy prefers younger or a lot younger.

 

He doesn't target out that group like women who only go after certain salary ranges.

 

In most cases he starts dating & think I could go my age, younger,or much younger. So while he won't deny women his age he'll pursue and give preference to younger women.

[udolipixie]

Yeah, and not even all of the women that go for bad boys are that attractive looking. Some are average, or even ugly looking.

 

They still want their pick of the litter, and would rather screw a bad boy, and screw over the good guy, rather than have a healthy relationship.

 

Why are so many men bitter? Because women make them that way.

 

 

No because they chose to react that way.

 

It may be a supporter but the reason is they chose to be bitter.

 

No woman told them to react in that fashion.

 

They weren't in a situation where they knew no other way to react.

 

 

 

Yeah, and not even all of the women that go for bad boys are that attractive looking. Some are average, or even ugly looking.

They still want their pick of the litter, and would rather screw a bad boy, and screw over the good guy, rather than have a healthy relationship.

 

Are you implying that only attractive women are allowed this?

 

If so do you also believe only attractive men should be with attractive women?

 

 

 

Yeah, and not even all of the women that go for bad boys are that attractive looking. Some are average, or even ugly looking.

 

They still want their pick of the litter, and would rather screw a bad boy, and screw over the good guy, rather than have a healthy relationship.

 

Sad to say a healthy relationship doesn't mean much or holds much sway unless it's a healthy relationship with someone you're attracted to.

 

Which is why girls try to change bad boys that way they can get a healthy relationship with someone they're attracted to.

 

It doesn't work obviously.

 

Of course there are those that thrive on the abuse as well and just take his badness not trying to change it.

 

But those that try to change bad boys continue to try to change someone who doesn't want to over forcing attraction/staying with someone they're not attracted to.

 

Why?

 

They can't get the true desire- healthy relationship with someone they are attracted to so they try to make it.

 

They don't want a good guy. They want a good guy they're attracted to.

[carhill]

Rare find to see a guy who doesn't prefer a certain age group & pursues all equally.

 

I have some experience with that and can opine that capability for a healthy R or not seemed largely unrelated to age. Over the decades, the youngest I dated was 11 years younger and the oldest nine years older. My exW was 3 months older, so essentially the same age. The fat part of the curve and the majority of LTR's tended to be within a couple years either way. As a point of socialization, my dad was six years older than my mom. TBH, I don't 'see' people's ages. They're a point of curiosity perhaps, but that's it.

 

I will opine that a drama- and abuse-free history, facilitated by dating healthy males, likely gives the woman greater potential for being a capable partner, simply due to fewer negative emotional memories being formed. That said, IMO, it's the negative emotional memories made as a child due to neglect, abuse, incest, molestation, etc, which form lasting scars on the psyche and provide a potential path to further pain and suffering as an adult. That path, mixed with the sexual power nature provides women, is a perfect recipe for potential self-destruction. I deign to mention the numbers of women who have told me directly that they wanted to kill themselves. Horrible. Is someone with that mindset and psychology capable of a healthy relationship? Perhaps, but IMO not without a lot of professional help. Healthy relationships are hard enough as it is.

[snug.bunny]

^ Long list of cheaters there.

 

That being said, women cheat just as much. It just isn't reported as much.

 

I'm sure you are correct.

 

Excerpt from an online study:

Some experts say that these days, women and men do cheat in equal numbers. The difference is that men who cheat tend to be more "serial" about it -- they cheat with a variety of sexual partners. Women, on the other hand, are more likely to get into a longer-term extramarital relationship.

[Woggle]

For me...

 

I want a women that is not "damaged goods" and does not have enough luggage to fill up a cargo plane.

 

It just so happens, most of these women are younger.

 

Since they are young, they haven't had enough time to screw themselves and their future up yet.

 

Exactly. A man finds a woman in her 30s who doesn't have a whole ton of baggage from her bad boy phase and she is pure gold. They are not easy to find though.

 

I think that many men who finally make it big in their 30s tend to want to get revenge on every woman that turned their nose up at him for some jerk. That is what it is.

[phineas]

I disagree. There are many commitment phobic men out there. I know a lot of good women that have had a man like this break them.

 

My room mate changes gf's as often as he changes his underwear. Oddly enough, it's the "good ones" he dumps sooner. I don't know why- but he seems to keep the bitchy ones around longer.

 

How old is he?

 

Most men like this act this way on purpose.

They KNOW what they are doing.

 

Men think differently than woman.

We don't look for miss right. we look for miss right now.

When he is ready to commit he will.

 

Right now it sounds like there is no shortage of women willing to sleep with him.

So why commit to one?

 

He may have regrets down the road. These guys do wind up calling up ex's out of the blue to ask them out when they realize it.

Edited July 7, 2011 by phineas

[Floridaman]

So what did good guys get passed up on- hookups, casual relationships?

 

Things that would have lasted a night, sometimes weeks, and maybe a few months?

 

At best good guys got passed up on long term relationships.

 

The end result would still be the same- he would get older & date younger.

 

The only difference would be that he wasn't passed up on and got some relationship experience.

LTRs are what I wanted, though I had a couple of casuals.

Didn't date younger. Dated older and found a good supply of those women looking for relationships.

It's amusing how guys assume dating good guys make any difference.

 

The only difference is a healthier relationship.

 

Dating good guys doesn't mean you won't end up single when older.

 

Plus with older guys preferring to date 10-20 years younger most won't bother to find out whether or not that woman his age spent her 20s screwing around since she's not his dating preference.

Not necessarily.

Dating a good guy can mean entering a GENUINE relationship with a partner whose committed to the other. Those tend to last longer.

 

And yes, I still resent being passed over by some women.

 

Dated of course but recall many women declining my invitations. There wasn't anything wrong with me and looking at their facebook pics, two of the ones I asked out in college and one later, both are obese.

 

The sports addict (not my cup o' tea) apparently never married.

The other appears to have had some deep childhood abuse issues, according to her posts, so those rejections may likely have had little do do with me.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Floridaman

[dispatch3d]

Really don't think women who have had a bad relationship are generalizable to anything - especially something like "incapable of having any healthy relationships". Come on now

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by udolipixie

So what did good guys get passed up on- hookups, casual relationships?

....

At best good guys got passed up on long term relationships.

LTRs are what I wanted, though I had a couple of casuals.

Clarification:Was seeking LTRs but tried to satisfy my strong and burning sexual desires in 2 sep. brief encounters at 26....

Wasn't looking for casual sex. Opportunities arose....

[udolipixie]

Exactly. A man finds a woman in her 30s who doesn't have a whole ton of baggage from her bad boy phase and she is pure gold. They are not easy to find though.

 

I think that many men who finally make it big in their 30s tend to want to get revenge on every woman that turned their nose up at him for some jerk. That is what it is.

 

Really?

 

I see some severely misplaced anger there.

 

It doesn't seem like they're trying to get revenge on specifically the women who rejected them but just women.

 

Like a woman who was hurt so she becomes a misandrist or starts using men.

[udolipixie]

Clarification:Was seeking LTRs but tried to satisfy my strong and burning sexual desires in 2 sep. brief encounters at 26....

Wasn't looking for casual sex. Opportunities arose....

 

 

My point was that whether the "good guys" were passed up or not doesn't play an argument into why they would date younger women when they became older because passed up or not the guys most likely would have dated younger.

 

 

LTRs are what I wanted, though I had a couple of casuals.

Didn't date younger. Dated older and found a good supply of those women looking for relationships.

 

Not necessarily.

Dating a good guy can mean entering a GENUINE relationship with a partner whose committed to the other. Those tend to last longer.

 

And yes, I still resent being passed over by some women.

 

Dated of course but recall many women declining my invitations. There wasn't anything wrong with me and looking at their facebook pics, two of the ones I asked out in college and one later, both are obese.

 

The sports addict (not my cup o' tea) apparently never married.

The other appears to have had some deep childhood abuse issues, according to her posts, so those rejections may likely have had little do do with me.

 

 

At best good guys got passed up on long term relationships.

 

The only difference is a healthier relationship.

 

Dating good guys doesn't mean you won't end up single when older.

 

Plus with older guys preferring to date 10-20 years younger most won't bother to find out whether or not that woman his age spent her 20s screwing around since she's not his dating preference.

 

 

 

How is that not necessarily?

 

You proved my point.

 

The only difference with dating good guys when younger is that you may get a long term healthy relationship.

 

That doesn't mean a woman who dated good guys hen young won't end up alone when older (aka single or unmarried).

 

Unless you meant not necessarily to the point that most men will be dating younger so the worthwhile ones wouldn't bother unless she meet him at a social event, work, or through friends?

 

Because that unnecessarily goes against the point guys in this thread support that the worthwhile men choose to go after younger than older.

[thatone]

For me...

 

I want a women that is not "damaged goods" and does not have enough luggage to fill up a cargo plane.

 

It just so happens, most of these women are younger.

 

Since they are young, they haven't had enough time to screw themselves and their future up yet.

 

that's pretty much it, a lot more than appearance.

 

it's not like men sit around rejecting all women who don't have a certain cup size or don't have a certain hair color.

 

only women are obsessed with such things, to be honest, because they think that's what men want. so these damaged women make themselves look like what the next bartender wants and then wonder why the next bartender is an as*hole like the last one.

 

/repeat cycle

[thatone]

Really?

 

I see some severely misplaced anger there.

 

It doesn't seem like they're trying to get revenge on specifically the women who rejected them but just women.

 

Like a woman who was hurt so she becomes a misandrist or starts using men.

 

not misplaced anger, more like treating women as they've been treated.

[Woggle]

Really?

 

I see some severely misplaced anger there.

 

It doesn't seem like they're trying to get revenge on specifically the women who rejected them but just women.

 

Like a woman who was hurt so she becomes a misandrist or starts using men.

 

It goes both ways for sure and it is very much wrong to take your anger out on women that never did anything to you. Some women make innocent men pay for what the bad boys put them through as well.

[donnamaybe]

When I see some of the rationalization, mistrust in all people without exception, and blameshifting that goes on just on this forum alone, I would say yes - there are most definitely some women - and men - who are "simply incapable of having a healthy relationship."

[Eve]

Not that I am shocked by things said here but I must admit that I have come around to thinking maybe a lot of people get what they deserve.

 

If someone is willing to hurt another person (however they justify it) in my books they don't deserve happiness.

 

Ce la vie.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[Woggle]

udolipixie,

 

I think the men and women are talking past each other and are looking at this from two different points of view... SHOCKER!

 

Hopefully this will clear it up or at least it will explain what the men are trying to communicate...

 

The "Good Guys" are trying to get these points across:

 

1. "Good Guys" have always wanted to date, be in relationships and hopefully be married one day.

 

2. What "Good Guys" want and what "Good Guys" are looking for in women has never changed.

 

3. "Good Guys" tries and has little or no success in dating women in their twenties.

 

4. Women in their early to late twenties do not date ""Good Guys" because they think they are chumps and therefore are not attracted to them.

 

5. While in our twenties, women dates "Bad Boys" over "Good Guys".

 

NOTE: There women want and are looking for "Bad Boys" so they either screw over and pass up the "Good Guys".

 

6. The women CHANGES her mind on what she wants and what she is looking for in her late twenties / early thirties.

 

NOTE: Reasons for the CHANGE in mind: Their clock is ticking, have been screwed over enough times by the "Bad Boys" to realize the "Good Guys are were it is at, they are on the downside of their looks and want to use whatever they have left to assist them in landing a "Good Guy", etc.

 

7. Women who spent years dating the "Bad Boys" come out of that experience as "damaged goods" and have a TON of "Baggage".

 

NOTE: Could be any of the many reasons I list.... Suffered a lot of emotional and mental abuse, was constantly cheated on and lied too, excessive drinking, excessive drug use, excessive partying, was generally never treated well by the "Bad Boys", damaged or ruined self-esteem, damaged or ruined self-worth, damaged or ruined self-value, STDs, addictions, screwed up view of men, relationships and sex, divorced, kids, money issues, etc.

 

8. "Good Guys" has never wanted and were never looking for a women like number 7 above so "Good Guys" passes over, avoids and does not date and has zero interest in marrying women like number 7 above.

 

9. Women learns that "Good Guys" indeed are not chumps because he sticks to his guns and will not settle or allow himself to deviate from what he always wanted and was looking for in a women.

 

10. Due to a majority of the women near or around "Good Guys" age being like women number 7 above.... "Good Guys" are forced to date and seek marriage with women that are a lot younger because they are still the type / kind of women that "Good Guys" had always wanted from the very beginning.

 

11. Women like number 7 above become angry, depressed and bitter because they do not understand why "Good Guys" wouldn't want to be with them.

 

NOTE: Never mind the fact that they have been road hard and put up wet, have all kinds of issues and baggage and let's not even mention the number of times she passed up or screwed "Good Guy" over along the way.

 

12. Women like number 7 above has little options left so they go back to what they were doing that got them into this mess or they settle with a "recovered Bad Boy" that is just as screwed up as her.

 

These are the points the us men are trying to make in this thread.

 

You are right... men are generally going to date someone younger than them, no secret there.

 

I am 39... Have never been married, have no kids, have a great job, have taken care of my body, have dated and was involved with with women of quality and substance, no drug or alcohol problem, financially secure, no STDs, respect and value women, have a healthy view of relationships and sex, I am drama free, confident, secure, whoever is with me isn't going to have to deal with some crazy Ex being in the picture and haven't screwed half the world.

 

I was careful and wise with the choices I have made as I go through life. I did this not only for myself, but for the person that I will one day marry.

 

Why should I have to settle for some women who CHOOSE to self-destruct and ruined any chance she has for happiness in her early twenties?

 

Simply put, I am not going too. I am going to go date a women that is much younger than me because women around my age are all like women number 7 above. I would love to date a women around my age... However, I can't find one that isn't screwed up in the head or have enough baggage to fill a cargo plane.

 

There is no mystery as to what happens when women choose to go down the dating "Bad Boys" path... It never, ever ends well for them and EVERYONE (them included) knows it. Yet, they do it anyway.

 

So as far as I am concerned... Someone else can deal with them, their Ex "Bad Boy" husband, their screwed up kids, their baggage, etc.

 

Here is the irony of it all...

 

I might actually consider settling with one of this women (them getting what they want) if they were fun, happy or brought any joy to my life.

 

No, they can't even do something as simple as that. Not only would I have to settle, I also get to deal with a bitter and miserable bitch who is set out to make me pay for something she choose and did to herself. I'm serious... they are their own worst enemies!

 

Very true. Men are sick and tired of having to pay the price for what some other man did and women tend to do that. There is no pleasing women that hate men. You can be the kindest and most loving man in the world but they will still want to punish you and a man hater is what many of these women who play around with bad boys end up being.

 

Why the hell would any man sign up to take punishment for baggage he did not cause. It's like going to the prison and wanting to serve another person's sentence.

[Floridaman]

6. The women CHANGES her mind on what she wants and what she is looking for in her late twenties / early thirties.

 

NOTE: Reasons for the CHANGE in mind: Their clock is ticking, have been screwed over enough times by the "Bad Boys" to realize the "Good Guys are were it is at, they are on the downside of their looks and want to use whatever they have left to assist them in landing a "Good Guy", etc.

 

7. Women who spent years dating the "Bad Boys" come out of that experience as "damaged goods" and have a TON of "Baggage".

....

Suffered a lot of emotional and mental abuse, was constantly cheated on and lied too, excessive drinking, excessive drug use, excessive partying, was generally never treated well by the "Bad Boys", damaged or ruined self-esteem, damaged or ruined self-worth, damaged or ruined self-value, STDs, addictions, screwed up view of men, relationships and sex, divorced, kids, money issues, etc.

Wow, Homebrew, that's a good summary. You put a lot of thought into that long response.

 

Lived next to a woman in an apt. who dated a "bad boy..."

Would hear them constantly yelling, screaming and throwing things....

Thought of going over there once to comfort her... but feared her BF would get incensed if he heard I'd visited....

8. "Good Guys" has never wanted and were never looking for a women like number 7 above so "Good Guys" passes over, avoids and does not date and has zero interest in marrying women like number 7 above.

 

9. Women learns that "Good Guys" indeed are not chumps because he sticks to his guns and will not settle or allow himself to deviate from what he always wanted and was looking for in a women.

TBH, I didn't want to date a woman who had "lots of baggage."

Am not talking about focusing on virgins (would have been a bonus) nor never-married women with maybe a low "partner count" ( i.e. 1-5 ) by their late 20s... Am referring to those "bad girls" with DOZENS of partners and experiences. Wasn't appealing to me.

 

The one I married only had one partner and that was YEARS before we met.

Me: 3 partners in 4-5 separate times 17-29.....

 

Guess I wanted a chaste woman, a girl who acts polite but "...could be a little naughty"

Jam Up & Jelly Tight (1969).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlUai6D7xh4

 

"...You look a little naughty, But you're so polite...

You won't say you will but there's a chance that you might....

You've got a sweet disposition So come on and give me permission

For one kiss and maybe another

We'll see we were meant for each other..."

 

Guess I was fortunate that I never really encountered any of those self-destructive women.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Floridaman

[rafallus]

Very true. Men are sick and tired of having to pay the price for what some other man did and women tend to do that. There is no pleasing women that hate men. You can be the kindest and most loving man in the world but they will still want to punish you and a man hater is what many of these women who play around with bad boys end up being.

 

Why the hell would any man sign up to take punishment for baggage he did not cause. It's like going to the prison and wanting to serve another person's sentence.

 

That reminds me of something:

 

Either bunch of wussbags, or sly players attempting to get in women's pants.