Are some women simply incapable of having a healthy relationship?

[udolipixie]

No... but it doesn't mean a "Bad Girl" won't end up with a good relationship once in a while, too.

Predicting the future doesn't help things here.

 

This is precisely my point there's no guarantee.

 

The guarantee being the end result.

 

Dating good guys = healthy relationships with a chance of the end result

 

Dating bad boys = bad relationships with a chance of the end result

 

The end result is pretty much equally the same.

[udolipixie]

So what if a Good Girl dates a Good Guy and things don't work out?

There's so much more likelihood things will be better with decent guys vs. the jerks...

 

Precisely my point there's no guarantee.

 

The guarantee being the end result.

 

Dating good guys = healthy relationships with a chance of the end result

 

Dating bad boys = bad relationships with a chance of the end result

 

The end result is pretty much equally the same.

 

The only benefit of dating well is you're not a worse off person & you have good experiences.

 

Things are better in the since you're not worse off.

 

But it's not better in the sense you won't be single or still dating when older.

[Taramere]

Have you read anything that has been written in the last 12 pages?

 

She is not going to stop and will not listen because her brother because he is a "Good Guy".

 

She wants to be self-destructive... and no "Good Guy" on the planet can stop her.

 

No, I just clicked on it and saw the last page. I would read back, but a) it's late here and I'm going to bed, and b) I don't think I could face the task of wading through a thread that's bound to be full of griping, generalisations and pointlessness in order to pick out the nuggets of UT's specific situation and any advice he's received on it so far.

 

It's a shame his situation isn't outlined separately as it seems the sort of thing that would merit a thread of its own.

[udolipixie]

Guess I'm seeing what some women are really like...

They're not "bad girls" but heaven forbid they waste time with us "Good Guys..."

 

Guess I'm seeing people are only reading into what they want.

 

Guess you're missing the point it's not all good guys that are a waste of time if they're thinking about the end result (marriage).

 

Once again I think women have a much better chance of getting the end result with good guys older than her.

 

Why? Because dating good guys her age may result in a serial monogamy cycle that when she's older may catch up on her since a guy might want to settle down with a younger woman to start a family.

 

In case you missed it this wasn't about bad girls but girls who date good guys their age may be single or still dating when older.

Where did you get bad girls from?

[Woggle]

Have you ever had a discussion with your sister about this?

 

You can talk to these people all day and it won't make a bit of a difference. It reminds me of my former sister in law who is the only sane person in that family. She has tried and tried to get her sister to get some sense and it has yet to work.

[udolipixie]

Like the other poster said, they shouldn't expect us to be doormats there to catch them when they fall and the clock ticking grows louder...

 

What is this?

 

Where did you get doormats from?

 

Or catching when falling?

 

The ticking clock supports my point.

 

She can date good guys when she's young & end still up single or continuing the cycle of still dating good guys if she can get them.

 

That's a big if.

 

Most won't bother to see if because like you they think all women who have a bad boy history because of his ability to date younger (1-5 years) or much younger (10- 20 years) he won't bother to find out whether or not that woman his age spent her 20s screwing around since she's not his dating preference.

 

Especially since he assumes she already has.

Some guys with the same cargo-divorced guy or single dad- don't want to date women who have the same cargo.

 

Often if given the choice between two women of the same caliber the younger or more attractive one is chosen.

 

Those that do date the women their age often when they want to settle down choose a younger woman understandably. (ticking clock)

[udolipixie]

As for me.

 

I'm not wasting time with good guys my age so that despite having dating well & having healthy relationships I'll end up older and typecaste as other older women who passed up on the good guys.

 

Then when guys do bother to find out if I was like the "majority" and I do get a good guy it'll just be a repeat of just dating or a serious healthy relationship.

 

However unlike when I was young the potential for marriage is even lower.

 

Because unlike the obvious reason he may want to marry but just not marry me.

 

The factor that he may want to settle down with a younger woman to start a family with as it's easier is added in.

 

Due to not finding older guys attractive I can't take the better road of dating good guys older than me that young women should take if the want healthy relationships AND a higher chance of it leading to marry.

[udolipixie]

udolipixie,

 

We are talking about dating, relationships and marriage material.

Any relationship to you, unless it ends in marriage, is a failure.

 

Where did you get that?

 

If that were the case I wouldn't say a woman can date good guys when young & have successful.

 

I'm assuming things about good guys my age.

 

My assumption being a woman will spend her 20s dating good guys & having successful healthy serious relationships but will end up alone or still dating good guys in her 30s.

 

Once again relationship /= marriage.

[udolipixie]

This isn't about women desperate to marry.

 

This is about women who date good guys and then find out when older they get put in the same category as other women with a history of dating bad boys because she's older.

 

So since she's already categorized most guys don't bother and go after younger or much younger women.

 

The worthwhile guys she does date she may continue to have successful healthy relationships with but no marriage hence the term serial monogamy cycle.

 

Except there used to only be one factor "he may want to marry but just not marry me." and now there's "he may want to settle down with a younger woman to start a family with as it's easier" & the fact she has limited options.

 

Not sure where you got the desperate from.

 

My points were a woman who has dated well & had successful healthy relationships in her young will most likely be categorized as a bad boy chaser because she's older.

 

The guys who bother to find that she's not she can still have healthy relationships with but the serial monogamy cycle now has new factors in it.

 

So at best she'll just be in the serial monogamy cycle when guys bother to find out she wasn't a bad boy or alone because she was type caste.

 

So the best solution to not get categorized when older & to not be in the monogamy cycle? Date good guys who are older when you're younger.

[udolipixie]

udolipixie,

 

I really do admire you!

 

At least you have the courage and the guts to call it like it is.

 

There are hardly any responses in this thread from women, because they are either guilty of being one of the women we have being talking about or they are pretty much in agreement.

 

If this subject matter was about any other male / female gender roles or stereotypes... There isn't a shortage of women on here that are willing to let you know what they think, how they feel or tell you how wrong you are.

 

Their silence... speaks volumes!

 

Admiration?

 

I usually get called a young maid or spinster in training.

 

I just see the likelihood of women ending up alone or serial monogamy as it is.

 

There's nothing wrong with serial monogamy but I know plenty of girls my age who couldn't fathom no matter how great their relationship is to never be married one day in the distant future.

 

As a lifetime of relationships is just not me since I had hoped to settle down one day.

 

And older guys aren't my thing.

 

I'll stick to just focusing on me, my friends, my job, and my career.

[udolipixie]

She doesn't have to be young to have success with a "good guy".

 

Older women can / do have success too!

 

We aren't call "Good Guys" for nothing!

 

I know some older women who had successful relationships with guys their age.

 

And plenty who a few who are currently in a happy& successful relationship.

 

They have successful relationships.

 

My point is that age hinders having relationships since guys assume older woman means bad boy chaser so don't bother to check the "facts" & severely limits the choice of marriage.

[Eve]

Final point..

 

What is often forgotten is that 'bad guys' really are those unable to give their hearts and as such sometimes it takes a while for this manifest. So watch out 'good guys' and 'good girls'...

 

H'mmm.. there is a falsity to this thread that few have recognised.

 

Yes, the journey to the darkside is often very well justified but is the darkside none-the-less..

 

Take care,

Eve x

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by Floridaman

 

No... but it doesn't mean a "Bad Girl" won't end up with a good relationship once in a while,

 

That is the mindset and approach that got them into this mess to begin with.

 

Yes, there is the exception to the rule... but rarely does it work out that way. That is why they are called exceptions.

 

I have never done drugs but if I did, is it possible that I could of had a drug addiction that ruined my life?

 

I didn't see any benefits for me to experiment with drugs, but I sure did see / know there there was potential for some major consequences. So I decided not to take a chance.

 

Is my life worse off for having never tried drugs? No.

 

Same thing applies to girls and the dating "Bad Boys" phase... Nothing good can come from it. So why take the chance of potentially ruining the rest of your life?

You took things too literally there.

Never would I encourage a "good girl" to go for the Bad Boy, nor do drugs, promiscuous sex nor many other things.

Stated that as a "what if" and that even "Bad Girls" can find a good relationship once in a while, not necessarily with Bad Boys.

Just like a broken clock can be right twice a day...

Perhaps I should have placed a "sarcastic" symbol next to the pt.

 

Was trying to illistrate absurdity by being absurd...

Read udolipixie's post...

Originally Posted by Floridaman

 

What is it with your obssessive belief that us "Good Guys" (and yes, I consider myself a member of that club) would do you gals wrong?

What?

If I thought good guys would do women wrong I wouldn't suggest that women date older good guys.

 

My belief is that women shouldn't waste time on good guys their own age but good guys older than them.

 

This way they don't end up in their 20s dating good guys & in their 30s single or still just dating good guys.

There's nothing wrong with serial monogamy.

So a woman goes from LTR to another until she finds the right one.

That's how it works.

 

Seems far better than the jerks many women date who leave their lives in wreckage, like my aunt I referenced earlier.

 

So her dating Good Guys -- and there were plenty of them in Small Town America where she originated -- would have been as bad as what happened to her and her kids from muiltiple fathers?

Originally Posted by Floridaman

 

Methinks you're assuming things will go bad with us "Good Guys" so you won't give us a chance...

I'm assuming things about good guys my age.

Okay. Didn't get that earlier.

Your prev. statements, the ones I quoted, tainted you in a light that you didn't like us "Good Guys" and somehow, the bad boys were better dating material.

My assumption being a woman will spend her 20s dating good guys & having successful healthy serious relationships but will end up alone or still dating good guys in her 30s.

 

Once again relationship /= marriage.

 

So even if that good guy is settle down despite having a serious relationship with her he may not want to settle down with her.

 

Or he may be in a relationship but when he's ready to settle down he seeks a young woman to start a family with.

That's really not for us to say. We can't determine how relationships go with others. So a woman remains involved with a "Good Guy" for a long time and he doesn't commit. She hasn't "wasted" her time.

 

If you find yourself in such a situation, "clarify" the relationship with your partner. If he doesn't respond the way you wish, withdraw despite the sexual closeness you've developed and seek another that's more on-track with your views and life plans.

 

Dated my future wife for a number of years -- 3< years before we got engaged for a year. Wasn't bec. of any ambivalence on my part, but for the fact we were in a long-distance relationship and careers.

As for me I'm stuck what will give me a high chance is older guys & I'm not attracted to them.

You recommend young women going for the older "Good Guys."

Yet you won't do it yourself....

 

I'm saying when young these women shouldn't haven given good guys their age a chance but good guys older than them.

Methinks that's a flawed plan.

 

You can hold to this irrational fear of Good Guys your age and find yourself single for a lot longer than you wish.

[snug.bunny]

I find it odd this thread was created and geared towards women who have dated "bad boys" when they were younger.

 

Didn't OP do the same exact thing marrying his now ex-wife?

 

Projection maybe? Eh, who knows.

[snug.bunny]

I don't know, snug.

 

All I know is that most women are incapable of having healthy relationships, until their 30's. Until then, they've got a lot of growing up to do.

 

Rubbish. I had a very healthy relationship in my early twenties, considered him my best friend, as he did I. Had he not started smoking doobees the way that he did, things might have turned out different.

[Floridaman]

I don't know, snug.

 

All I know is that most women are incapable of having healthy relationships, until their 30's. Until then, they've got a lot of growing up to do.

 

The bitter men that have to wait until then become bitter and lose interest. That's why they date younger...because they develop power, and are able to control women for sex. Women, on the other hand, become smarter and realize that they don't need to control men with sex...but by that time, the men who would have gladly accepted their dates 10-20 years earlier, are out there living it up with younger women.

 

It's a sad state of affairs, and neither men nor women win. If 20 somethings actually dated 20 something men who had good heads on their shoulders, maybe we wouldn't have so many idiots in the world?

I know of a virgin woman here on LS in her late teens/ early 20s who dated a guy twice her age....

 

Your rationale may not apply across the board, but in hindsight, methinks this older guy (who's younger than me) was bitter with women his age and therefore targeted the younger and more naive women....

 

He didn't get his way with her, according to her PMs (though he came very close in sex-play), as she seems resolute in remaining a virgin until at least engagement....

[udolipixie]

Your prev. statements, the ones I quoted, tainted you in a light that you didn't like us "Good Guys" and somehow, the bad boys were better dating material.

 

Actually my statements didn't portray me not liking good guys.

 

My only statement that portrayed good guys my age somewhat negatively.

 

You did not quote this:

My belief is that women shouldn't waste time on good guys their own age but good guys older than them.

 

But even if you had there was only "negativity" to good guys my age.

 

 

What you quoted was this:

Basically the non 7 women shouldn't have wasted time on good guys their own age but good guys older than them if they didn't want to end up single or in the serial monogamy cycle.

 

In the following reply:

What is it with your obssessive belief that us "Good Guys" (and yes, I consider myself a member of that club) would do you gals wrong?

 

You'd date us but then we'd leave you for younger skirts?

 

We're GOOD GUYS because WE'RE GOOD TO WOMEN...

treat them well, don't pressure them or demand sex (mostly) and really consider their feelings..

 

 

Seems like you read what you wanted to.

 

As that clearly stated women who dated good guys their age but when older found themselves categorized as #7 women (bad boy chasers/damaged goods) should have dated older good guys so that they wouldn't be in a cycle of relationships.

[udolipixie]

That's really not for us to say. We can't determine how relationships go with others. So a woman remains involved with a "Good Guy" for a long time and he doesn't commit. She hasn't "wasted" her time.

 

I'm not talking 1 guy I'm talking about serial monogamy she goes through the cycle of having successful healthy relationships

 

They just don't lead to marriage.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

But when she's older she'll be categorized as a bad boy chaser simply because she's older.

 

Those that do bother to find out that she's not will date her.

 

Once again she'll be caught in the serial monogamy cycle.

 

Nothing wrong with that except she's already older & have less dating options so her marriage options are severely limited more than her dating and her ticking clock is limiting her time to start a family.

 

Like I said most of my girl friends can't imagine a life just having relationships with different guys no matter how successful they are instead of relationships than one day marrying.

 

^It's in that sense that she wasted her time.

[udolipixie]

You recommend young women going for the older "Good Guys."

Yet you won't do it yourself....

 

 

Methinks that's a flawed plan.

 

You can hold to this irrational fear of Good Guys your age and find yourself single for a lot longer than you wish.

 

I'm not attracted to older guys as stated before.

 

To me it's more of a flawed plan to seek relationships with guys I'm not attracted to.

 

So how is my plan flawed?

 

What irrational fear?

 

I see the situation and I asses the cost/benefit and to me a life just having relationships with different guys no matter how successful they are instead of relationships than one day marrying isn't much so being single & happy is best.

[Floridaman]

Actually my statements didn't portray me not liking good guys

.....

Seems like you read what you wanted to.

Skimmed your posts which like mine, tend to get long.

So sorry if I missed earlier points. Don't need a lecture here.

 

You did state some negativity toward us Good Guys more than once. That's what ticked me off here.

As that clearly stated women who dated good guys their age but when older found themselves categorized as #7 women (bad boy chasers/damaged goods) should have dated older good guys so that they wouldn't be in a cycle of relationships.

That's confusing.

How could those women be classified as Bad Boy-chasin' women in their older age if they didn't go after the Bad Boys when they were younger?

They dated the good guys.

 

Not what you want - - you think dating good guys their age is a waste, but still.... ,

.....and you glossed over my point, dating good guys their age would be superior in every single way than wasting time with jerks and guys that messed up my aunt (rather, she let them mistreat her)...

 

But maybe shouldn't go there as this thread is gettin' too confusin' as it is.

[snug.bunny]

So a woman remains involved with a "Good Guy" for a long time and he doesn't commit. She hasn't "wasted" her time.

 

Men who don't commit are guys who are still in touch with their "inner" bad boy. Or, they don't commit to women they don't love. Or, their selfish. Or, their incapable of loving another person, as much as they love themselves.

[udolipixie]

Skimmed your posts which like mine, tend to get long.

So sorry if I missed earlier points. Don't need a lecture here.

 

You did state some negativity toward us Good Guys more than once. That's what ticked me off here.

 

That's confusing.

How could those women be classified as Bad Boy-chasin' women in their older age if they didn't go after the Bad Boys when they were younger?

They dated the good guys.

 

Not that confusing guy tries dating women and finds the women his age were ex bad boy chasers.

 

So he assumes most women his age are.

 

So he either doesn't bother dating women his age.

 

Or he dates women his age as an afterthought.

 

The not bothering is where she classified as just like the rest.

 

The afterthought is where the guy might bother to find out if she is like he assumes most women his age are.

 

 

Not what you want - - you think dating good guys their age is a waste, but still.... ,

.....and you glossed over my point, dating good guys their age would be superior in every single way than wasting time with jerks and guys that messed up my aunt (rather, she let them mistreat her)...

 

But maybe shouldn't go there as this thread is gettin' too confusin' as it is.

 

No glossing here.

 

You must have skimmed it.

 

That was covered by my reply.

Here's a summary: Dating good guys just gets her successful healthy relationships which is a good thing. She gets the benefit of good romantic experiences & no damages except breakups. She remains a person who has the ability to keep attracting/keeping good guys.

 

So she essentially remains the same girl who

 

All well and good until she gets older. She'll be categorized with other women based on assumptions & the guys who bother to find out she's not will just continue the serial monogamy cycle.

 

Good because she has healthy relationships however the option to marry is severely even more limited than dating worthwhile guys.

 

Why? Instead of "he may want to marry but just not marry me." other factors come in - "he may want to settle down with a younger woman to start a family with as it's easier".

 

And my definition of time wasted was covered too.

 

"Like I said most of my girl friends can't imagine a life just having relationships with different guys no matter how successful they are instead of relationships than one day marrying.

 

^It's in that sense that she wasted her time."

[udolipixie]

Men who don't commit are guys who are still in touch with their "inner" bad boy. Or, they don't commit to women they don't love. Or, their selfish. Or, their incapable of loving another person, as much as they love themselves.

 

Uh no.

 

You can have a healthy successful relationship that's committed without committing to be married to each other.

 

You can be committed to someone without wanting to marry them.

 

That's where the serial monogamy cycle comes in.

 

This cycle hurts to be in there when older as a woman because other factors (younger woman to bear my kids, better options or him, less options for her) come in other than what used to be the only one "he wants to marry just not marry me"

[udolipixie]

Or maybe he sees that he would commit, she wouldn't, and would cheat on him. And he's really good at covering his a**.

 

 

No if he was really good he'd leave.

 

Your response is like an excuses for men's bad taste.

 

I'd also question his taste of women.

 

1. He actually wants commit to the type of person who'd chest on him?

I'm aware he's not going to but he wants to.

 

2. The fact he's staying with her is another thing to make me question his taste

 

3. The fact he chose to be in a relationship with that type of woman.

[phineas]

You have no idea how much this Sh** just wrecks a family. My father is now disabled from work... my mother is supporting the household and has to give my sister 10-30% of their income every month because she bought Marijuana for her BF instead of paying the rent.

 

Then when my parents are hard up... Guess who they come asking for help. ME! I hate this. My mom won't cut her off and I can't tell my parents no... they gave up tons for me.

 

I used to just hate the bad boy/user type guys... but now I realize it really isn't them. As soon as one is gone my sister goes out desperately in search of another. We need to strangle the demand... The supply will go away as a course of nature.

 

Demand for User/Butthole guys is so freaking high, quality guys are actually acting like pieces of crap just to get in the door.

 

And Ultimately, I pay for them all. F*** That! $45,000 in taxes last year... and what do I get from it?

 

you just described almost every woman close to 40 i've dated in the last 2 yrs.

 

I don't get it honestly. It's like you have to be at least verbally abusive to them or they loose interest & start banging some complete creep that only cares about himself & getting laid.

 

don't even bother me anymore. I consider myself dodging the drama bullet.